Snooze Wars 2 - What have you done?

mrauls.6519 · February 27, 2020

I've played between 10-20 unranked games by now. It's ridiculous how slow all fights are. Players are too tanky. Damage is too low. Please do something soon.

Genesis.5169 · February 27, 2020

Trying to get plat in 2v2's made gold 70% wr so far trying to keep it that way.

DoRi Silvia.4159 · February 27, 2020

Nay, this patch is good and this is the way it should be

THIS IS THE WAY

Phoebe Ascension.8437 · February 27, 2020

By permatanking again Dori Silvia? Boring. Timing stuns/stability it all means nothing, the first person that lets his defence down (usually by worse build) dies, then the win is signed. Who thought this is a good gameplay.

No chance to bypass killing as mechanic (you cant cap as compensation)Some classes terrible at 1 vs 1 (necro reaper) still had a chance cause of good mid presenceThe lack of needing to stand on something makes aoe useless. Well of corruption? Step out and done. In conquest this could mean loss of capture.No comeback possible, nobody wins 1 vs2 unlessi t's one of those 'amost everyone is downed at the end' fight.

Insanely boring Anet. Just when you nerfed tons of pvp stuff, i thought the games would be faster, but less dependent on overpowered builds. In fact now the difference between overpowered and not overpowered has grown. 1) because 2 vs2, the build is more important then ever, you can hide behind anything, bad build = fast die. 2) because of the slow gameplay, classes with high survival, yet still good damage (spellbreaker, mirage, weaver, firebrand come to mind) are crushingly overpowered, while some other classes are really weak (thief, revenant, etc).

Terrible anet. And yet... i will play it. Because... i don't want this achievement to be a dark roster on my journey past 40 000 achievements now. But am i having fun? Nope. Out of 8 matches, 1 was balanced and had this 'hard vs hard, exciting vs exciting' feel that some pvp matches with similar score have. All the rest was tanking for time, and feeling after 20 sec who wins no matter what happens after that.

I loved 10vs10 they kinda removed that, now they sorta removed 5vs 5.

The intend may have been good (for wich thanks anet). But the actually game play is horrible.

bravan.3876 · February 27, 2020

Don't increase dmg, just lower sustain (passive facetank sustain before active sustain) of the tanky outliners (Necro, FB for example), otherwise the powercreep just starts right again.

DoRi Silvia.4159 · February 27, 2020

@Phoebe Ascension.8437 said:By permatanking again Dori Silvia? Boring. Timing stuns/stability it all means nothing, the first person that lets his defence down (usually by worse build) dies, then the win is signed. Who thought this is a good gameplay.
No chance to bypass killing as mechanic (you cant cap as compensation)Some classes terrible at 1 vs 1 (necro reaper) still had a chance cause of good mid presenceThe lack of needing to stand on something makes aoe useless. Well of corruption? Step out and done. In conquest this could mean loss of capture.No comeback possible, nobody wins 1 vs2 unlessi t's one of those 'amost everyone is downed at the end' fight.
Insanely boring Anet. Just when you nerfed tons of pvp stuff, i thought the games would be faster, but less dependent on overpowered builds. In fact now the difference between overpowered and not overpowered has grown. 1) because 2 vs2, the build is more important then ever, you can hide behind anything, bad build = fast die. 2) because of the slow gameplay, classes with high survival, yet still good damage (spellbreaker, mirage, weaver, firebrand come to mind) are crushingly overpowered, while some other classes are really weak (thief, revenant, etc).
Terrible anet. And yet... i will play it. Because... i don't want this achievement to be a dark roster on my journey past 40 000 achievements now. But am i having fun? Nope. Out of 8 matches, 1 was balanced and had this 'hard vs hard, exciting vs exciting' feel that some pvp matches with similar score have. All the rest was tanking for time, and feeling after 20 sec who wins no matter what happens after that.
I loved 10vs10 they kinda removed that, now they sorta removed 5vs 5.
The intend may have been good (for wich thanks anet). But the actually game play is horrible.

And before it was a permanent burst 4 to 5second fights which I found boring.

This all comes down to whether you like the tactical fights vs fast paced burst and move on fight. Personally loving the patch as it has lengthened fights. All the bs classes got helpa nerfed as they should have and now it feels more fair playing.

End of the day they wont satisfy everyone but 90% ppl I talk to in game has good feedback about the patch.

/praise anet

AliamRationem.5172 · February 27, 2020

@DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
@"Phoebe Ascension.8437" said:By permatanking again Dori Silvia? Boring. Timing stuns/stability it all means nothing, the first person that lets his defence down (usually by worse build) dies, then the win is signed. Who thought this is a good gameplay.
No chance to bypass killing as mechanic (you cant cap as compensation)Some classes terrible at 1 vs 1 (necro reaper) still had a chance cause of good mid presenceThe lack of needing to stand on something makes aoe useless. Well of corruption? Step out and done. In conquest this could mean loss of capture.No comeback possible, nobody wins 1 vs2 unlessi t's one of those 'amost everyone is downed at the end' fight.
Insanely boring Anet. Just when you nerfed tons of pvp stuff, i thought the games would be faster, but less dependent on overpowered builds. In fact now the difference between overpowered and not overpowered has grown. 1) because 2 vs2, the build is more important then ever, you can hide behind anything, bad build = fast die. 2) because of the slow gameplay, classes with high survival, yet still good damage (spellbreaker, mirage, weaver, firebrand come to mind) are crushingly overpowered, while some other classes are really weak (thief, revenant, etc).
Terrible anet. And yet... i will play it. Because... i don't want this achievement to be a dark roster on my journey past 40 000 achievements now. But am i having fun? Nope. Out of 8 matches, 1 was balanced and had this 'hard vs hard, exciting vs exciting' feel that some pvp matches with similar score have. All the rest was tanking for time, and feeling after 20 sec who wins no matter what happens after that.
I loved 10vs10 they kinda removed that, now they sorta removed 5vs 5.
The intend may have been good (for wich thanks anet). But the actually game play is horrible.

And before it was a permanent burst 4 to 5second fights which I found boring.

This all comes down to whether you like the tactical fights vs fast paced burst and move on fight. Personally loving the patch as it has lengthened fights. All the bs classes got helpa nerfed as they should have and now it feels more fair playing.

End of the day they wont satisfy everyone but 90% ppl I talk to in game has good feedback about the patch.

/praise anet

So, help me understand. How was the old meta "burst and move on"? You're suggesting that killing other players is as simple as bursting them off an opener, right? So, do players not typically defend themselves and attempt to counter pressure? No? They just roll over and die I guess? Is that what you did?

I don't mean to be rude, but it just doesn't match my experience at all. Yeah, I can jump on a player with significantly less skill and just overwhelm them in seconds. It doesn't even take a bursty build to do it. But try that with a player of equal skill and you simply can't pull it off. They'll defend themselves and force you to exhaust your offense, then counter-pressure and force you to back off and recover. It becomes a chess match, even though either side is capable of killing the other in a matter of a few seconds if the opening presents itself.

That's how I saw the previous meta. It was fast and high damage, which forces quick decisions and adaptation in order to exhaust your opponent's defenses and eventually create the opening to finish the fight.

I am not saying I am anything special in a duel, but for an example of this from the previous meta, here's a 1v1 between my fire weaver and a spellbreaker in WvW. Note that both of these builds, while not 1-shot artists, are still perfectly capable of taking down an enemy player with 20k+ health in under 5 seconds. Yet multiple times during this fight both of us are forced to back off or risk overextending and losing the fight.

Looking at this it seems pretty tactical to me and not at all like the "burst and move on" description you give of the previous meta. What do you think? Are we talking apples to apples here?

Multicolorhipster.9751 · February 27, 2020

A good balance between increased TTK and actually doing damage would be cool.

Winning/losing matches to the timer because nodes stay neutral forever is pretty boring. As is people rarely if ever dying at all.

DoRi Silvia.4159 · February 27, 2020

@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
@"Phoebe Ascension.8437" said:By permatanking again Dori Silvia? Boring. Timing stuns/stability it all means nothing, the first person that lets his defence down (usually by worse build) dies, then the win is signed. Who thought this is a good gameplay.
No chance to bypass killing as mechanic (you cant cap as compensation)Some classes terrible at 1 vs 1 (necro reaper) still had a chance cause of good mid presenceThe lack of needing to stand on something makes aoe useless. Well of corruption? Step out and done. In conquest this could mean loss of capture.No comeback possible, nobody wins 1 vs2 unlessi t's one of those 'amost everyone is downed at the end' fight.
Insanely boring Anet. Just when you nerfed tons of pvp stuff, i thought the games would be faster, but less dependent on overpowered builds. In fact now the difference between overpowered and not overpowered has grown. 1) because 2 vs2, the build is more important then ever, you can hide behind anything, bad build = fast die. 2) because of the slow gameplay, classes with high survival, yet still good damage (spellbreaker, mirage, weaver, firebrand come to mind) are crushingly overpowered, while some other classes are really weak (thief, revenant, etc).
Terrible anet. And yet... i will play it. Because... i don't want this achievement to be a dark roster on my journey past 40 000 achievements now. But am i having fun? Nope. Out of 8 matches, 1 was balanced and had this 'hard vs hard, exciting vs exciting' feel that some pvp matches with similar score have. All the rest was tanking for time, and feeling after 20 sec who wins no matter what happens after that.
I loved 10vs10 they kinda removed that, now they sorta removed 5vs 5.
The intend may have been good (for wich thanks anet). But the actually game play is horrible.

And before it was a permanent burst 4 to 5second fights which I found boring.

This all comes down to whether you like the tactical fights vs fast paced burst and move on fight. Personally loving the patch as it has lengthened fights. All the bs classes got helpa nerfed as they should have and now it feels more fair playing.

End of the day they wont satisfy everyone but 90% ppl I talk to in game has good feedback about the patch.

/praise anet

So, help me understand. How was the old meta "burst and move on"? You're suggesting that killing other players is as simple as bursting them off an opener, right? So, do players not typically defend themselves and attempt to counter pressure? No? They just roll over and die I guess? Is that what you did?

I don't mean to be rude, but it just doesn't match my experience at all. Yeah, I can jump on a player with significantly less skill and just overwhelm them in seconds. It doesn't even take a bursty build to do it. But try that with a player of equal skill and you simply can't pull it off. They'll defend themselves and force you to exhaust your offense, then counter-pressure and force you to back off and recover. It becomes a chess match, even though either side is capable of killing the other in a matter of a few seconds if the opening presents itself.

That's how I saw the previous meta. It was fast and high damage, which forces quick decisions and adaptation in order to exhaust your opponent's defenses and eventually create the opening to finish the fight.

I am not saying I am anything special in a duel, but for an example of this from the previous meta, here's a 1v1 between my fire weaver and a spellbreaker in WvW. Note that both of these builds, while not 1-shot artists, are still perfectly capable of taking down an enemy player with 20k+ health in under 5 seconds. Yet multiple times during this fight both of us are forced to back off or risk overextending and losing the fight.

Looking at this it seems pretty tactical to me and not at all like the "burst and move on" description you give of the previous meta. What do you think? Are we talking apples to apples here?

TLDRBut I get what you are saying but nope I stand with my statement.Previous meta allowed some bs bursts. I remember a soul beast . He was good. But he was able to down someone within 2 secs and along with all the other bs meta builds that existed . It's good now there is no OP classes (except fb) and it feels more balanced.It's not about not being able to react it was more about how fast bursts could happen and how some classes could sustain those bursts easily and often where as some classes couldn't and that was no good.

The biggest thing is the old meta was getting stale.Last update of skills maybe about 2 years and hasnt had much change at all since

Change is good. Anet cant make everyone happy but 4 of my friends came back after patch and they are very happy. They still need more tweaking but it's a good start.

Downstate.4697 · February 27, 2020

Everyone that thought last meta was better mained an OP build that needed nerfs regardless of damage nerfs

AliamRationem.5172 · February 27, 2020

@DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
@AliamRationem.5172 said:
@DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
@"Phoebe Ascension.8437" said:By permatanking again Dori Silvia? Boring. Timing stuns/stability it all means nothing, the first person that lets his defence down (usually by worse build) dies, then the win is signed. Who thought this is a good gameplay.
No chance to bypass killing as mechanic (you cant cap as compensation)Some classes terrible at 1 vs 1 (necro reaper) still had a chance cause of good mid presenceThe lack of needing to stand on something makes aoe useless. Well of corruption? Step out and done. In conquest this could mean loss of capture.No comeback possible, nobody wins 1 vs2 unlessi t's one of those 'amost everyone is downed at the end' fight.
Insanely boring Anet. Just when you nerfed tons of pvp stuff, i thought the games would be faster, but less dependent on overpowered builds. In fact now the difference between overpowered and not overpowered has grown. 1) because 2 vs2, the build is more important then ever, you can hide behind anything, bad build = fast die. 2) because of the slow gameplay, classes with high survival, yet still good damage (spellbreaker, mirage, weaver, firebrand come to mind) are crushingly overpowered, while some other classes are really weak (thief, revenant, etc).
Terrible anet. And yet... i will play it. Because... i don't want this achievement to be a dark roster on my journey past 40 000 achievements now. But am i having fun? Nope. Out of 8 matches, 1 was balanced and had this 'hard vs hard, exciting vs exciting' feel that some pvp matches with similar score have. All the rest was tanking for time, and feeling after 20 sec who wins no matter what happens after that.
I loved 10vs10 they kinda removed that, now they sorta removed 5vs 5.
The intend may have been good (for wich thanks anet). But the actually game play is horrible.