Thief still hitting for 5k

MarkBecks.6453 · February 27, 2020

so playing Mesmer against regular thief and 3 of us cant catch or kill him, he went underwater and sat their with zero damage from my Mesmer, (please check, that's either an exploit or a bug which he fully knows about), then 1 minute later he hits me for 5k crit, heartseeker. Please Anet if you going to tone down all the power, you need to relook at thief, I cant kill him, but he can critically hit me for that much damage. Not only that, takes down a camp while we fighting him, something stinks here

Genesis.5169 · February 27, 2020

FIrst thing is put down the mesmer.Trust me it gonna be the best thing you do this entire patch.

And no thieves are not the issue.I didn't think it would start so soon tbh...

primatos.5413 · February 27, 2020

Still some skills have to be looked at ... some things are still overperforming .. (nearly) perma evade is surely one of them .. condi bunker the next imo

SehferViega.8725 · February 27, 2020

@MarkBecks.6453 said:so playing Mesmer against regular thief and 3 of us cant catch or kill him, he went underwater and sat their with zero damage from my Mesmer, (please check, that's either an exploit or a bug which he fully knows about), then 1 minute later he hits me for 5k crit, heartseeker. Please Anet if you going to tone down all the power, you need to relook at thief, I cant kill him, but he can critically hit me for that much damage. Not only that, takes down a camp while we fighting him, something stinks here

my 4'000 power Reaper still hits for 13k Death's Charge (tested against a war, not a paper full berserker ele).A skill that before patch was able to hit for 20k crit, after a 30% damage reduction it still be able to hit for 13-14k crit..What are you talking about? Mesmer can still oneshot a thief in WvW. You should learn how to play your class before come on forum crying.

Burnfall.9573 · February 27, 2020

@SehferViega.8725 said:
@MarkBecks.6453 said:so playing Mesmer against regular thief and 3 of us cant catch or kill him, he went underwater and sat their with zero damage from my Mesmer, (please check, that's either an exploit or a bug which he fully knows about), then 1 minute later he hits me for 5k crit, heartseeker. Please Anet if you going to tone down all the power, you need to relook at thief, I cant kill him, but he can critically hit me for that much damage. Not only that, takes down a camp while we fighting him, something stinks here

my 4'000 power Reaper still hits for 13k Death's Charge (tested against a war, not a paper full berserker ele).A skill that before patch was able to hit for 20k crit, after a 30% damage reduction it still be able to hit for 13-14k crit..What are you talking about? Mesmer can still oneshot a thief in WvW. You should learn how to play your class before come on forum crying.

And i am both a Necromancer and Mesmer Profession main. Shame on you to tell a Mesmer player that, knowing well enough Thief Profession continually remaining the prime Toxic Profession to the health of the game. As Anet continually refuses to no address their Toxicity by not redesigning them.

Mesmer Professions do not tell Necromancer Profession 'to learn how to play or come one the forum crying', in fact, we standby Necromancer Profession when it comes to our common Toxic Enemy Profession-Thief Profession. Once again, Thief Profession is the reason why all the professions behave Toxic because why not? Instead of fighting Healthy Competition against Unhealthy Toxicity, Fight Toxicity against Toxicity, .Fight fire with Fire= Balance

We expect you to be be courteous in return

kash.9213 · February 27, 2020

@Burnfall.9573 said:
@SehferViega.8725 said:
@MarkBecks.6453 said:so playing Mesmer against regular thief and 3 of us cant catch or kill him, he went underwater and sat their with zero damage from my Mesmer, (please check, that's either an exploit or a bug which he fully knows about), then 1 minute later he hits me for 5k crit, heartseeker. Please Anet if you going to tone down all the power, you need to relook at thief, I cant kill him, but he can critically hit me for that much damage. Not only that, takes down a camp while we fighting him, something stinks here

my 4'000 power Reaper still hits for 13k Death's Charge (tested against a war, not a paper full berserker ele).A skill that before patch was able to hit for 20k crit, after a 30% damage reduction it still be able to hit for 13-14k crit..What are you talking about? Mesmer can still oneshot a thief in WvW. You should learn how to play your class before come on forum crying.

And i am both a Necromancer and Mesmer Profession main. Shame on you to tell a Mesmer player that, knowing well enough Thief Profession continually remaining the prime Toxic Profession to the health of the game. As Anet continually refuses to no address their Toxicity by not redesigning them.

Mesmer Professions do not tell Necromancer Profession 'to learn how to play or come one the forum crying', in fact, we standby Necromancer Profession when it comes to our common Toxic Enemy Profession-Thief Profession. Once again, Thief Profession is the reason why all the professions behave Toxic because why not? Instead of fighting Healthy Competition against Unhealthy Toxicity, Fight Toxicity against Toxicity, .Fight fire with Fire= Balance

We expect you to be be courteous in return

You're way too cringy for being soo wrong about all the time, at least you haven't spammed the thread with bad old videos yet.

Burnfall.9573 · February 27, 2020

@kash.9213 said:
@Burnfall.9573 said:
@SehferViega.8725 said:
@MarkBecks.6453 said:so playing Mesmer against regular thief and 3 of us cant catch or kill him, he went underwater and sat their with zero damage from my Mesmer, (please check, that's either an exploit or a bug which he fully knows about), then 1 minute later he hits me for 5k crit, heartseeker. Please Anet if you going to tone down all the power, you need to relook at thief, I cant kill him, but he can critically hit me for that much damage. Not only that, takes down a camp while we fighting him, something stinks here

my 4'000 power Reaper still hits for 13k Death's Charge (tested against a war, not a paper full berserker ele).A skill that before patch was able to hit for 20k crit, after a 30% damage reduction it still be able to hit for 13-14k crit..What are you talking about? Mesmer can still oneshot a thief in WvW. You should learn how to play your class before come on forum crying.

And i am both a Necromancer and Mesmer Profession main. Shame on you to tell a Mesmer player that, knowing well enough Thief Profession continually remaining the prime Toxic Profession to the health of the game. As Anet continually refuses to no address their Toxicity by not redesigning them.

Mesmer Professions do not tell Necromancer Profession 'to learn how to play or come one the forum crying', in fact, we standby Necromancer Profession when it comes to our common Toxic Enemy Profession-Thief Profession. Once again, Thief Profession is the reason why all the professions behave Toxic because why not? Instead of fighting Healthy Competition against Unhealthy Toxicity, Fight Toxicity against Toxicity, .Fight fire with Fire= Balance

We expect you to be be courteous in return

You're way too cringy for being soo wrong about all the time, at least you haven't spammed the thread with bad old videos yet.

You play or main Thief Profession correct?

As a reminder; Mesmer, Necromancer, Warrior, Ranger, Guardians, Elementalist Professions are rooted in Guild Wars. Thief Profession and its Toxic Stealth never existed nor would ever cohabitated in Guild Wars for this reason. Guild Wars 2 will forever remain in its Unhealthy Toxic state until Thief Profession is to be completely redesign or to be completely removed from the game alongside its Toxic elements- Toxic +1 shotting and Toxic Stealth

Period~

GDchiaScrub.3241 · February 27, 2020

WTB more context.

D:

Sobx.1758 · February 27, 2020

@primatos.5413 said:Still some skills have to be looked at ... some things are still overperforming .. (nearly) perma evade is surely one of them .. condi bunker the next imo

Of course they need to be looked at, anet said that themselves way before this patch went live, so at least we know they acknowledged that and it -hopefully- won't be a one time change. Expecting everything to be fine right away after a balance pass of this size would be naive :p

GDchiaScrub.3241 · February 27, 2020

@Burnfall.9573 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Burnfall.9573 said:
@Sobx.1758 said:
@Burnfall.9573 said:
@SehferViega.8725 said:
@"MarkBecks.6453" said:so playing Mesmer against regular thief and 3 of us cant catch or kill him, he went underwater and sat their with zero damage from my Mesmer, (please check, that's either an exploit or a bug which he fully knows about), then 1 minute later he hits me for 5k crit, heartseeker. Please Anet if you going to tone down all the power, you need to relook at thief, I cant kill him, but he can critically hit me for that much damage. Not only that, takes down a camp while we fighting him, something stinks here

my 4'000 power Reaper still hits for 13k Death's Charge (tested against a war, not a paper full berserker ele).A skill that before patch was able to hit for 20k crit, after a 30% damage reduction it still be able to hit for 13-14k crit..What are you talking about? Mesmer can still oneshot a thief in WvW. You should learn how to play your class before come on forum crying.

And i am both a Necromancer and Mesmer Profession main. Shame on you to tell a Mesmer player that, knowing well enough Thief Profession continually remaining the prime Toxic Profession to the health of the game. As Anet continually refuses to no address their Toxicity by not redesigning them.

You proved many times before that you have no idea what you're talking about and this time is not different.

says a Thief Profession player

Nah, I play multiple classes and if you actually ever read what I write, I never(?) try to push stupid buffs on any proffession, also actually advocated for some nerfs or adjustment to anything I play as well. So whatever point you're trying to make here -you probably need to re-evaluate your knowledge/opinion, because it's false.

And if you ever read what i continually advocated for, is to expose Toxicity for what it is and to have it either to be redesign with healthy competitive elements or to be completely eradicated. Also to defend Professions who are blamed for it and to expose those who are abusing Toxicity

Yes, yes. This is all fascinating stuff, but how exactly does it relate to the OP's concerns? From the limited context provided...the thief jumped into the water to use the evades given by under water abilities (that I don't think the patch touched). Namely the spear skills. Sadly the OP doesn't detail this so I'm making some assumptions.

As for the 5k damage (from anything) that's fairly low compared to pre-patch if the OP is indeed "glassy." Again I don't know because they don't show their build or whatever.

D:

Stand The Wall.6987 · February 27, 2020

wheres my boy cato the elder? he should be heard in all this ruckus.

Strider Pj.2193 · February 27, 2020

We are complaining about 5k crits now?

Seriously?

Strider Pj.2193 · February 27, 2020

@Burnfall.9573 said:
@kash.9213 said:
@Burnfall.9573 said:
@SehferViega.8725 said:
@MarkBecks.6453 said:so playing Mesmer against regular thief and 3 of us cant catch or kill him, he went underwater and sat their with zero damage from my Mesmer, (please check, that's either an exploit or a bug which he fully knows about), then 1 minute later he hits me for 5k crit, heartseeker. Please Anet if you going to tone down all the power, you need to relook at thief, I cant kill him, but he can critically hit me for that much damage. Not only that, takes down a camp while we fighting him, something stinks here

my 4'000 power Reaper still hits for 13k Death's Charge (tested against a war, not a paper full berserker ele).A skill that before patch was able to hit for 20k crit, after a 30% damage reduction it still be able to hit for 13-14k crit..What are you talking about? Mesmer can still oneshot a thief in WvW. You should learn how to play your class before come on forum crying.

And i am both a Necromancer and Mesmer Profession main. Shame on you to tell a Mesmer player that, knowing well enough Thief Profession continually remaining the prime Toxic Profession to the health of the game. As Anet continually refuses to no address their Toxicity by not redesigning them.

Mesmer Professions do not tell Necromancer Profession 'to learn how to play or come one the forum crying', in fact, we standby Necromancer Profession when it comes to our common Toxic Enemy Profession-Thief Profession. Once again, Thief Profession is the reason why all the professions behave Toxic because why not? Instead of fighting Healthy Competition against Unhealthy Toxicity, Fight Toxicity against Toxicity, .Fight fire with Fire= Balance

We expect you to be be courteous in return

You're way too cringy for being soo wrong about all the time, at least you haven't spammed the thread with bad old videos yet.

You play or main Thief Profession correct?

As a reminder; Mesmer, Necromancer, Warrior, Ranger,

Guardians,

Elementalist Professions are rooted in Guild Wars. Thief Profession and its Toxic Stealth never existed nor would ever cohabitated in Guild Wars for this reason. Guild Wars 2 will forever remain in its Unhealthy Toxic state until Thief Profession is to be completely redesign or to be completely removed from the game alongside its Toxic elements- Toxic +1 shotting and Toxic Stealth

Period~

Find me where ‘guardians’ are more rooted in GW than thief.

subversiontwo.7501 · February 27, 2020

This is an interesting topic because @OP highlights something important and worth discussing but there are also no simple suggestions or good, appearant solutions to it. At least no good discussions on solutions that can address the issue but still allow the class to be fun to play. When a discussion about a class splits in two and polarizes we get the problem where the two sides argue about who is right or wrong but the vast majority on either side are both wrong. Some suggest heavyhanded "fixes" to the problem and others refuse to admit that there is a problem in the first place or ever possibly could be/fathom one.

For a fairly long time focus on broadening the Thief class to be able to balance them has focused on utility. The balance of the class, for a very long time, has rested more upon rock-paper-scissor than for other classes. In part, not surprisingly, because the class is so specialised. What we have seen develop in more recent years is that alot of the added utility (re-) creates issues (like how the concept of portals is cool and one thing Thieves could get in on without overshadowing other classes, but at the same time recreated an issue with objective-portalling that had been deemed undesired for the mode and solved on other classes) or have over time combined to create balance issues between utility and unique core mechanics.

I recently watched one of Noody's latest videos (the one where he chronicles a falling out with a friend). While the video was about something else, all of the gameplay in it served as very good examples of just how many answers the class have to everything now if you are good enough to use them. The elite specialisations or other changes have added alot of utilities that simply blends poorly with the core mechanics of choosing/resetting. It makes for pretty interesting mirror matchups but it also highlights how the class now lacks many obvious holes or weaknesses that other classes have built in or have gained advantages that other classes have instead of things like stealth and mobility. This includes things like best-tier cleanses, blocks and invuls.

I'm not a big fan of the "neuter core mechanics to make core specs more viable" approach that the developer has taken so far but for the Thief that is a viable discussion if the developer is persistant in carrying out the project. I think most of the changes needed on Thieves (and needed to adress what is becoming more and more of a roaming hegemony rather than a simple roaming predisposition) are re-design changes rather than buff or nerf changes.

Perhaps a look should be taken at where the different core mechanics come from and shifting them around to places and points that can be mechanically interchanged. For example, perhaps functions for stealths that exist on weapons or utilities should be shifted to F-skills and F-skills shifted to utilities and weapons to make the class and its specialisations easier to balance going forward. Deadeye is even more of an issue since it not only suffers from the "better version of core" issues seen elsewhere but also has questionable (read: bad) concept and base design. The idea of a sniper just fits very poorly with PvP in a game. It's a difficult concept to balance that always risks being over- or underwhelming based on how it is meant to work.

Something similar can be said for stealth overall of course but games have proven to be capable to handle that better or worse and when things are better they can be tolerable. That includes this game. This game has also shown that there are ways that you can address stealth in pretty smart ways without having to change too much of the system. If people remember the way Sneak Gyro on Scrapper first worked that was quite an interesting way of reinventing the use of stealth. That the Gyro suffered from the ranger-spirit issue of dying when something sneezed at it was obviously a problem but the concept of stealth hiding numbers rather than the existance of enemies was actually a quite interesting mechanic. Something similar could be done to more things stealth - allowing you to see that something is stealthed but not what, who or for group-utility purposes: how many. I'm just spitballing here, but I believe in potential changes, implementable changes to deal with "some things stealth" in this game.

ilMasa.2546 · February 27, 2020

No.Im fine with the DMG the problem is the damn stealth time.I can get a 10 second stealth,i can get a 6 seconds invulnerability,i can get "x" blocks,i can get aegis and use 3 dodges .

BUT

If your stealth can outlast everything i have on my bar(conbined),honestly it doesnt matter what i do and/or how i use it: i have cooldowns stealth has no CDs

KrHome.1920 · February 27, 2020

@"MarkBecks.6453" said:so playing Mesmer against regular thief and 3 of us cant catch or kill him, he went underwater and sat their with zero damage from my Mesmer, (please check, that's either an exploit or a bug which he fully knows about)That has nothing to do with the balance patch.

You witnessed some standard thief troll move that exists for a long time now: jump underwater and spam https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Assault

Just leave him alone. You waste your time trying to kill him underwater.

then 1 minute later he hits me for 5k crit, heartseeker. Please Anet if you going to tone down all the power, you need to relook at thief, I cant kill him, but he can critically hit me for that much damage.A 5k crit heartseeker with all modifiers is not broken. Your wvw build should have sth. between 15 and 30k hp. Otherwise you are doing it wrong.
Not only that, takes down a camp while we fighting him, something stinks hereHave you been in stealth, on warclaw, invulnerable (including distorsion!)...? All this prevents capture point contribution and you lose the capture point.

subversiontwo.7501 · February 27, 2020

@Strider Pj.2193 said:
@Burnfall.9573 said:
@kash.9213 said:
@Burnfall.9573 said:
@SehferViega.8725 said:
@"MarkBecks.6453" said:so playing Mesmer against regular thief and 3 of us cant catch or kill him, he went underwater and sat their with zero damage from my Mesmer, (please check, that's either an exploit or a bug which he fully knows about), then 1 minute later he hits me for 5k crit, heartseeker. Please Anet if you going to tone down all the power, you need to relook at thief, I cant kill him, but he can critically hit me for that much damage. Not only that, takes down a camp while we fighting him, something stinks here

my 4'000 power Reaper still hits for 13k Death's Charge (tested against a war, not a paper full berserker ele).A skill that before patch was able to hit for 20k crit, after a 30% damage reduction it still be able to hit for 13-14k crit..What are you talking about? Mesmer can still oneshot a thief in WvW. You should learn how to play your class before come on forum crying.

And i am both a Necromancer and Mesmer Profession main. Shame on you to tell a Mesmer player that, knowing well enough Thief Profession continually remaining the prime Toxic Profession to the health of the game. As Anet continually refuses to no address their Toxicity by not redesigning them.

Mesmer Professions do not tell Necromancer Profession 'to learn how to play or come one the forum crying', in fact, we standby Necromancer Profession when it comes to our common Toxic Enemy Profession-Thief Profession. Once again, Thief Profession is the reason why all the professions behave Toxic because why not? Instead of fighting Healthy Competition against Unhealthy Toxicity, Fight Toxicity against Toxicity, .Fight fire with Fire= Balance

We expect you to be be courteous in return

You're way too cringy for being soo wrong about all the time, at least you haven't spammed the thread with bad old videos yet.

You play or main Thief Profession correct?

As a reminder; Mesmer, Necromancer, Warrior, Ranger,

Guardians,

Elementalist Professions are rooted in Guild Wars. Thief Profession and its Toxic Stealth never existed nor would ever cohabitated in Guild Wars for this reason. Guild Wars 2 will forever remain in its Unhealthy Toxic state until Thief Profession is to be completely redesign or to be completely removed from the game alongside its Toxic elements- Toxic +1 shotting and Toxic Stealth

Period~

Find me where ‘guardians’ are more rooted in GW than thief.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Monk

It's literally just a rename to motivate a balance of armor classes. It even reuses the class icon.

Of course, there are Assassins as well but it's not like Guardians are not rooted in the game. Plus, what the OP suggests is not that Assassins didn't exist but rather that they are not stealth-based in the same manner.

Edit. If you need more convincing here is a random list of monk spells (do they ring any bells?):

AegisAura of StabilityContemplation of PurityGuardianHealing BreezeSmite ConditionSmiter's BoonRay of JudgmentRetributionShield of AbsorptionSignet of JudgmentSignet of RejuvenationSymbol of WrathZealot's Fire

Overall, it's a pretty moot discussion since both GW1 and GW2 shows that there are good and bad options when it comes designing, balancing and adressing stealth gameplay or options thereof. I just wanted to stop the derailment of the thread with some easily-obtainable facts before it took off.

kash.9213 · February 27, 2020

@subversiontwo.7501 said:This is an interesting topic because @OP highlights something important and worth discussing but there are also no simple suggestions or good, appearant solutions to it. At least no good discussions on solutions that can address the issue but still allow the class to be fun to play. When a discussion about a class splits in two and polarizes we get the problem where the two sides argue about who is right or wrong but the vast majority on either side are both wrong. Some suggest heavyhanded "fixes" to the problem and others refuse to admit that there is a problem in the first place or ever possibly could be/fathom one.
For a fairly long time focus on broadening the Thief class to be able to balance them has focused on utility. The balance of the class, for a very long time, has rested more upon rock-paper-scissor than for other classes. In part, not surprisingly, because the class is so specialised. What we have seen develop in more recent years is that alot of the added utility (re-) creates issues (like how the concept of portals is cool and one thing Thieves could get in on without overshadowing other classes, but at the same time recreated an issue with objective-portalling that had been deemed undesired for the mode and solved on other classes) or have over time combined to create balance issues between utility and unique core mechanics.
I recently watched one of Noody's latest videos (the one where he chronicles a falling out with a friend). While the video was about something else, all of the gameplay in it served as very good examples of just how many answers the class have to everything now if you are good enough to use them. The elite specialisations or other changes have added alot of utilities that simply blends poorly with the core mechanics of choosing/resetting. It makes for pretty interesting mirror matchups but it also highlights how the class now lacks many obvious holes or weaknesses that other classes have built in or have gained advantages that other classes have instead of things like stealth and mobility. This includes things like best-tier cleanses, blocks and invuls.
I'm not a big fan of the "neuter core mechanics to make core specs more viable" approach that the developer has taken so far but for the Thief that is a viable discussion if the developer is persistant in carrying out the project. I think most of the changes needed on Thieves (and needed to adress what is becoming more and more of a roaming hegemony rather than a simple roaming predisposition) are re-design changes rather than buff or nerf changes.
Perhaps a look should be taken at where the different core mechanics come from and shifting them around to places and points that can be mechanically interchanged. For example, perhaps functions for stealths that exist on weapons or utilities should be shifted to F-skills and F-skills shifted to utilities and weapons to make the class and its specialisations easier to balance going forward. Deadeye is even more of an issue since it not only suffers from the "better version of core" issues seen elsewhere but also has questionable (read: bad) concept and base design. The idea of a sniper just fits very poorly with PvP in a game. It's a difficult concept to balance that always risks being over- or underwhelming based on how it is meant to work.
Something similar can be said for stealth overall of course but games have proven to be capable to handle that better or worse and when things are better they can be tolerable. That includes this game. This game has also shown that there are ways that you can address stealth in pretty smart ways without having to change too much of the system. If people remember the way Sneak Gyro on Scrapper first worked that was quite an interesting way of reinventing the use of stealth. That the Gyro suffered from the ranger-spirit issue of dying when something sneezed at it was obviously a problem but the concept of stealth hiding numbers rather than the existance of enemies was actually a quite interesting mechanic. Something similar could be done to more things stealth - allowing you to see that something is stealthed but not what, who or for group-utility purposes: how many. I'm just spitballing here, but I believe in potential changes, implementable changes to deal with "some things stealth" in this game.

That's way too long a post over some non issue like the original post. Anyway, if you think thief has an answer to everything packed in one build then please take it out for a spin in either spvp or wvw with your full bag of tricks and get back to us. Maybe you can break down for us each instance where thief has an answer to anything being thrown at them. Here's a better idea for you in particular though, just visit the thief forum if you're trying to figure out what should be done about the thief class and if you ever come up with a good idea instead, it can be ignored like everyone else's.

subversiontwo.7501 · February 27, 2020

@kash.9213 said:
@subversiontwo.7501 said:This is an interesting topic because @OP highlights something important and worth discussing but there are also no simple suggestions or good, appearant solutions to it. At least no good discussions on solutions that can address the issue but still allow the class to be fun to play. When a discussion about a class splits in two and polarizes we get the problem where the two sides argue about who is right or wrong but the vast majority on either side are both wrong. Some suggest heavyhanded "fixes" to the problem and others refuse to admit that there is a problem in the first place or ever possibly could be/fathom one.
For a fairly long time focus on broadening the Thief class to be able to balance them has focused on utility. The balance of the class, for a very long time, has rested more upon rock-paper-scissor than for other classes. In part, not surprisingly, because the class is so specialised. What we have seen develop in more recent years is that alot of the added utility (re-) creates issues (like how the concept of portals is cool and one thing Thieves could get in on without overshadowing other classes, but at the same time recreated an issue with objective-portalling that had been deemed undesired for the mode and solved on other classes) or have over time combined to create balance issues between utility and unique core mechanics.
I recently watched one of Noody's latest videos (the one where he chronicles a falling out with a friend). While the video was about something else, all of the gameplay in it served as very good examples of just how many answers the class have to everything now if you are good enough to use them. The elite specialisations or other changes have added alot of utilities that simply blends poorly with the core mechanics of choosing/resetting. It makes for pretty interesting mirror matchups but it also highlights how the class now lacks many obvious holes or weaknesses that other classes have built in or have gained advantages that other classes have instead of things like stealth and mobility. This includes things like best-tier cleanses, blocks and invuls.
I'm not a big fan of the "neuter core mechanics to make core specs more viable" approach that the developer has taken so far but for the Thief that is a viable discussion if the developer is persistant in carrying out the project. I think most of the changes needed on Thieves (and needed to adress what is becoming more and more of a roaming hegemony rather than a simple roaming predisposition) are re-design changes rather than buff or nerf changes.
Perhaps a look should be taken at where the different core mechanics come from and shifting them around to places and points that can be mechanically interchanged. For example, perhaps functions for stealths that exist on weapons or utilities should be shifted to F-skills and F-skills shifted to utilities and weapons to make the class and its specialisations easier to balance going forward. Deadeye is even more of an issue since it not only suffers from the "better version of core" issues seen elsewhere but also has questionable (read: bad) concept and base design. The idea of a sniper just fits very poorly with PvP in a game. It's a difficult concept to balance that always risks being over- or underwhelming based on how it is meant to work.
Something similar can be said for stealth overall of course but games have proven to be capable to handle that better or worse and when things are better they can be tolerable. That includes this game. This game has also shown that there are ways that you can address stealth in pretty smart ways without having to change too much of the system. If people remember the way Sneak Gyro on Scrapper first worked that was quite an interesting way of reinventing the use of stealth. That the Gyro suffered from the ranger-spirit issue of dying when something sneezed at it was obviously a problem but the concept of stealth hiding numbers rather than the existance of enemies was actually a quite interesting mechanic. Something similar could be done to more things stealth - allowing you to see that something is stealthed but not what, who or for group-utility purposes: how many. I'm just spitballing here, but I believe in potential changes, implementable changes to deal with "some things stealth" in this game.

That's way too long a post over some non issue like the original post. Anyway, if you think thief has an answer to everything packed in one build then please take it out for a spin in either spvp or wvw with your full bag of tricks and get back to us. Maybe you can break down for us each instance where thief has an answer to anything being thrown at them. Here's a better idea for you in particular though, just visit the thief forum if you're trying to figure out what should be done about the thief class and if you ever come up with a good idea instead, it can be ignored like everyone else's.

I do take it out for a spin fairly often, I have played since release and have every class in the game, consider myself much of a multiclasser even if that obviously doesn't mean that I am equally knowledgable on every class or as knowledgable as an expert of certain classes. I'd be happy to admit that Thief is one of the classes that I am worst at. I am however experienced enough to see through your comment and suggest that you do the same to be able to argue from position of decency. I also play with people who are genuinely good at Thief and open to discussion on the topic. If they are so can you be.

The goes for other classes that have or have recently had balance issues in specific areas of the game. I know far more about Mesmers for example and I have no qualms to admit that the specializations for that class caused a number of similar issues. The thing is that what you suggest is actually very important. Taking one's nose out of specific subsets of content that have their own little metas and see things for what they are. For example, I also like to roam but talking about roaming balance becomes an issue if one's conception of balance only involves the four most common classes that all for various different reasons had unstoppable force vs. immovable object trades prepatch when there are nine classes in the game.

To give you some references that you can you track, keep in mind that the patch is bringing back some of the best-known names in the game simply because it promises better balance, even for their own classes that they have considered to be overtuned or the environment to be boring despite their classes being extremely good in the environment that has existed. If you don't like listening to me or my pompous posts, listen to the likes of Hellseth.

See, I don't know you or how good you are and I don't really care enough to find out. However, I've played with and against enough good people to deduce that they are almost always open to discussion (even if they don't frequent the forums) and taking a critical perspective, they are always among the first to admit when they are overtuned and they stick through playing their classes well when they are undertuned. That is something almost all of them have in common because they are always looking for ways to use the game and its mechanics. I've also used the forums enough to know that most of the people here are quite the distance away from people I play with or against so I'd be more inclined to listen to my friends if we are to listen to oppinions alone. People worth listening to on forums are usually able to frame their arguments in a discussion and that often means that their posts take a couple of paragraphs to both write and read. For example, if you read my post that you complained about, you would have seen examples of what I referred to about the stuff you commented on. It is a paragraph or two down and if you spent more time reading it than getting flustered about something you pulled out of context and responding with hyperbole you would have seen it. I mean that sincerely, not as a slight.

Also, friend, these are the forums, all our posts are always largely ignored on all subforums. I am fully aware of it, pearls for swine and all that.

Strider Pj.2193 · February 27, 2020

@subversiontwo.7501 said:
@Strider Pj.2193 said:
@Burnfall.9573 said:
@kash.9213 said:
@Burnfall.9573 said:
@SehferViega.8725 said:
@"MarkBecks.6453" said:so playing Mesmer against regular thief and 3 of us cant catch or kill him, he went underwater and sat their with zero damage from my Mesmer, (please check, that's either an exploit or a bug which he fully knows about), then 1 minute later he hits me for 5k crit, heartseeker. Please Anet if you going to tone down all the power, you need to relook at thief, I cant kill him, but he can critically hit me for that much damage. Not only that, takes down a camp while we fighting him, something stinks here

my 4'000 power Reaper still hits for 13k Death's Charge (tested against a war, not a paper full berserker ele).A skill that before patch was able to hit for 20k crit, after a 30% damage reduction it still be able to hit for 13-14k crit..What are you talking about? Mesmer can still oneshot a thief in WvW. You should learn how to play your class before come on forum crying.

And i am both a Necromancer and Mesmer Profession main. Shame on you to tell a Mesmer player that, knowing well enough Thief Profession continually remaining the prime Toxic Profession to the health of the game. As Anet continually refuses to no address their Toxicity by not redesigning them.

Mesmer Professions do not tell Necromancer Profession 'to learn how to play or come one the forum crying', in fact, we standby Necromancer Profession when it comes to our common Toxic Enemy Profession-Thief Profession. Once again, Thief Profession is the reason why all the professions behave Toxic because why not? Instead of fighting Healthy Competition against Unhealthy Toxicity, Fight Toxicity against Toxicity, .Fight fire with Fire= Balance

We expect you to be be courteous in return

You're way too cringy for being soo wrong about all the time, at least you haven't spammed the thread with bad old videos yet.

You play or main Thief Profession correct?

As a reminder; Mesmer, Necromancer, Warrior, Ranger,

Guardians,

Elementalist Professions are rooted in Guild Wars. Thief Profession and its Toxic Stealth never existed nor would ever cohabitated in Guild Wars for this reason. Guild Wars 2 will forever remain in its Unhealthy Toxic state until Thief Profession is to be completely redesign or to be completely removed from the game alongside its Toxic elements- Toxic +1 shotting and Toxic Stealth

Period~

Find me where ‘guardians’ are more rooted in GW than thief.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Monk

It's literally just a rename to motivate a balance of armor classes. It even reuses the class icon.

Of course, there are Assassins as well but it's not like Guardians are not rooted in the game. Plus, what the OP suggests is not that Assassins didn't exist but rather that they are not stealth-based in the same manner.

Edit. If you need more convincing here is a random list of monk spells (do they ring any bells?):

AegisAura of StabilityContemplation of PurityGuardianHealing BreezeSmite ConditionSmiter's BoonRay of JudgmentRetributionShield of AbsorptionSignet of JudgmentSignet of RejuvenationSymbol of WrathZealot's Fire

Overall, it's a pretty moot discussion since both GW1 and GW2 shows that there are good and bad options when it comes designing, balancing and adressing stealth gameplay or options thereof. I just wanted to stop the derailment of the thread with some easily-obtainable facts before it took off.

Assassin Was the thief ancestor. As much as protection monk is an ancestor to guardian.

Do we really want to break it down by the skills and what they do to compare the 4 classes?

Despite names being different, you would find that many of the skills are similar.

The poster we were referencing consistently spouts inaccuracies and outdated information.

If you want to defend his statement about all of the classes rooted in GW1 despite leaving out thief, you are welcome to try.

Edit: that poster stated ‘toxic one shots’ as well as stealth.

Point is, this thread was derailed as soon as someone brought in stealth. And any opportunity that poster gets to spout the outdated and inaccurate information, the rant begins.

Sobx.1758 · February 27, 2020

@subversiontwo.7501 said:
@Strider Pj.2193 said:
@Burnfall.9573 said:
@kash.9213 said:
@Burnfall.9573 said:
@SehferViega.8725 said:
@"MarkBecks.6453" said:so playing Mesmer against regular thief and 3 of us cant catch or kill him, he went underwater and sat their with zero damage from my Mesmer, (please check, that's either an exploit or a bug which he fully knows about), then 1 minute later he hits me for 5k crit, heartseeker. Please Anet if you going to tone down all the power, you need to relook at thief, I cant kill him, but he can critically hit me for that much damage. Not only that, takes down a camp while we fighting him, something stinks here

my 4'000 power Reaper still hits for 13k Death's Charge (tested against a war, not a paper full berserker ele).A skill that before patch was able to hit for 20k crit, after a 30% damage reduction it still be able to hit for 13-14k crit..What are you talking about? Mesmer can still oneshot a thief in WvW. You should learn how to play your class before come on forum crying.

And i am both a Necromancer and Mesmer Profession main. Shame on you to tell a Mesmer player that, knowing well enough Thief Profession continually remaining the prime Toxic Profession to the health of the game. As Anet continually refuses to no address their Toxicity by not redesigning them.

Mesmer Professions do not tell Necromancer Profession 'to learn how to play or come one the forum crying', in fact, we standby Necromancer Profession when it comes to our common Toxic Enemy Profession-Thief Profession. Once again, Thief Profession is the reason why all the professions behave Toxic because why not? Instead of fighting Healthy Competition against Unhealthy Toxicity, Fight Toxicity against Toxicity, .Fight fire with Fire= Balance

We expect you to be be courteous in return

You're way too cringy for being soo wrong about all the time, at least you haven't spammed the thread with bad old videos yet.

You play or main Thief Profession correct?

As a reminder; Mesmer, Necromancer, Warrior, Ranger,

Guardians,

Elementalist Professions are rooted in Guild Wars. Thief Profession and its Toxic Stealth never existed nor would ever cohabitated in Guild Wars for this reason. Guild Wars 2 will forever remain in its Unhealthy Toxic state until Thief Profession is to be completely redesign or to be completely removed from the game alongside its Toxic elements- Toxic +1 shotting and Toxic Stealth

Period~

Find me where ‘guardians’ are more rooted in GW than thief.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Monk

It's literally just a rename to motivate a balance of armor classes. It even reuses the class icon.

Of course, there are Assassins as well but it's not like Guardians are not rooted in the game. Plus, what the OP suggests is not that Assassins didn't exist but rather that they are not stealth-based in the same manner.

What Strider wrote was: "Find me where ‘guardians’ are more rooted in GW than thief.", both being pretty much renames make it more-or-less on par. Plus OP literally said that thief profession never existed, which is true as much as guardian not existing based on your answer.

...aaaalso if you want to play gw1, go play gw1. Something "not existing" or "not being the same" as it was in gw1 is not a valid (or actually any at all) argument. (yes, I know, that's directed more at burnfall, who tried to make this silly argument in the first place)

Shroud.2307 · February 27, 2020

I feel like some people won't be happy until ANet replaces weapons with Shouts and we can only attack each other with mild insults. No damage. Just hurt feelings.

"Your mother was a Skritt!" 10sec recharge. 5 targets. Cooldown reduced if target cries.

subversiontwo.7501 · February 27, 2020

@Strider Pj.2193 said:
@subversiontwo.7501 said:
@Strider Pj.2193 said:
@Burnfall.9573 said:
@kash.9213 said:
@Burnfall.9573 said:
@SehferViega.8725 said:
@"MarkBecks.6453" said:so playing Mesmer against regular thief and 3 of us cant catch or kill him, he went underwater and sat their with zero damage from my Mesmer, (please check, that's either an exploit or a bug which he fully knows about), then 1 minute later he hits me for 5k crit, heartseeker. Please Anet if you going to tone down all the power, you need to relook at thief, I cant kill him, but he can critically hit me for that much damage. Not only that, takes down a camp while we fighting him, something stinks here