Can we get an emergency ban on Necromancer and Firebrand in 2v2s?

[Ziggityzog.7389]

If they cant nerf the class properly and its ruining games for other players. Just make fb un accessible to ranked for the season.

When all the top 20 players have a fb/x combo. Obviously something is wrong.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:If they cant nerf the class properly and its ruining games for other players. Just make fb un accessible to ranked for the season.

When all the top 20 players have a fb/x combo. Obviously something is wrong.

Would that be difficult?Banning -one- elite spec for 2v2 that's mechanically carrying other bunker classes that would be less effective on their own? Or would that open everyone to the blame game?

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:It's not that Necro needs to be destroyed, it just doesn't need to be a sensu bean.

The above? Think we're getting survivor bias here and the problem's just firebrand? The moment necro is hotfixed people are going to dogpile on Rev/FB.Could just axe the common denominator instead.

[ollbirtan.2915]

Can we make an emergency ban on topics like this? Add to the existing posts if you have anything new to say rather than spamming same thing all over again.

[Halikus.1406]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:The above? Think we're getting survivor bias here and the problem's just firebrand? The moment necro is hotfixed people are going to dogpile on Rev/FB.Could just axe the common denominator instead.

Exactly what I was saying.FB is the problem here, necro alone is food and has always been food. Usually to play necro you gotta be careful because of the lack in defensives, but with firebrand you don't have that problem. FB breaks every game mode in this game and they only got a slap on the wrist in the patch, like you said yourself anything with a FB is a problem because of FB not because of it's partner class.Fix FB and then we can start adjusting what still needs adjustments when we make sure that it is a problem and not a side effect.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:Can we make an emergency ban on topics like this? Add to the existing posts if you have anything new to say rather than spamming same thing all over again.

If it's a problem, visibility is good. If it gets too bad the devs can merge, but to do that they'd have to understand there are multiple topics on the same thing.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:If they cant nerf the class properly and its ruining games for other players. Just make fb un accessible to ranked for the season.

When all the top 20 players have a fb/x combo. Obviously something is wrong.

Would that be difficult?Banning -one- elite spec for 2v2 that's mechanically carrying other bunker classes that would be less effective on their own? Or would that open everyone to the blame game?

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:It's not that Necro needs to be destroyed, it just doesn't need to be a sensu bean.

The above? Think we're getting survivor bias here and the problem's just firebrand? The moment necro is hotfixed people are going to dogpile on Rev/FB.Could just axe the common denominator instead.

No, in most cases "including while I am playing the Necro" the Necro is out surviving the FB in almost every game.

The FB has a lot more CC spike potential and consistent damage, also quick buffs the Necro for Lich, as well as a bunch of stuff. But the Necro ultimately outlives the FB.

[Halikus.1406]

It's a bunker build you Pepega lolIt was made to S U R V I V E..... Of course it will be the last to die if ppl are smart to go after the support first instead of the actual bunker.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:The Necro ultimately outlives the FB.

Of course it does. It's still a low hp class. Much of its kit resets necro though.A support that multiplies the survivability of a tank doesn't itself have to outlive the tank to be considered more of a problem.Without FB boosting it Necro is a high HP pool with no resistance to CC and its res cuts its hp in half and has a cast time.I have a pretty good confidence that hammer war can take care of necro problems without a FB attached to its hip.

Whatever the case/choice though, it at least needs -some- changes, and Firebrand needs to at least be second priority. Otherwise its just going to pivot from FB Core Necro to FB Rev, or to Necro/Necro which serves the same purpose in Deathmatch.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Ban 4 stat amulets.

It is the inevitable fix.

[Shao.7236]

It's weird, almost as if stuff that bends the rules on the cooldowns the reason why everything is so broken for these two, like there is something that completely carries the player away from their mistakes to just get back at spamming, quite an easy fix that Anet isn't bothered to notice but it's so obvious to the eye, are you guys asking for this?

Why allow Renewed Focus so rewarding for Tomes or make Tomes and pages this spammable back to back?

Why allow Necro to have itself saved every 30 seconds with an inevitable half/full shroud? Why not 90 seconds or even 300 seconds when you all know the utility skills have lower cooldowns that a good kitting Necro doesn't even need this trait to proc.

Why are you allowing so much BS in a competitive environment when it's clear what the problem is, you are allowing these people to get the free win with those decisions that went under the radar, same for Lich Form, why leave such strong co-efficient? Damage was nerfed all across the board by nearly 40% but you're gonna leave a skill that can potential 3 shot anyone?

So much power creep.

[storm.3120]

@"Shao.7236" said:It's weird, almost as if stuff that bends the rules on the cooldowns the reason why everything is so broken for these two, like there is something that completely carries the player away from their mistakes to just get back at spamming, quite an easy fix that Anet isn't bothered to notice but it's so obvious to the eye, are you guys asking for this?

Why allow Renewed Focus so rewarding for Tomes or make Tomes and pages this spammable back to back?

Why allow Necro to have itself saved every 30 seconds with an inevitable half/full shroud? Why not 90 seconds or even 300 seconds when you all know the utility skills have lower cooldowns that a good kitting Necro doesn't even need this trait to proc.

Why are you allowing so much BS in a competitive environment when it's clear what the problem is, you are allowing these people to get the free win with those decisions that went under the radar, same for Lich Form, why leave such strong co-efficient? Damage was nerfed all across the board by nearly 40% but you're gonna leave a skill that can potential 3 shot anyone?So much power creep.And idk who suggested it but if tome pages would be shared among all tomes... sounds good. Also RF could recharge 50% of tomes, not 100% (for fb only)Necro shroud is ometankmode that easy to refill(50% damage reduction from all sources and slap protection over it, woohoo) with damage attached to it and I esecially dislike number 5 being unavoidable and unblockable and going through invulnerability.About damage co-efficient ... its not the only thing... look at ranger pets and your jaw might drop on the floor when you see it (dont forget how much damage they get from the traits and maul/attack of opportunity 50% ;) ) :joy:P.S condi/bunker revs are aids as heck too

[claytonmorby.3751]

Imagine wanting to ban/balance around 2v2

[Shao.7236]

@Odik.4587 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:It's weird, almost as if stuff that bends the rules on the cooldowns the reason why everything is so broken for these two, like there is something that completely carries the player away from their mistakes to just get back at spamming, quite an easy fix that Anet isn't bothered to notice but it's so obvious to the eye, are you guys asking for this?

Why allow Renewed Focus so rewarding for Tomes or make Tomes and pages this spammable back to back?

Why allow Necro to have itself saved every 30 seconds with an inevitable half/full shroud? Why not 90 seconds or even 300 seconds when you all know the utility skills have lower cooldowns that a good kitting Necro doesn't even need this trait to proc.

Why are you allowing so much BS in a competitive environment when it's clear what the problem is, you are allowing these people to get the free win with those decisions that went under the radar, same for Lich Form, why leave such strong co-efficient? Damage was nerfed all across the board by nearly 40% but you're gonna leave a skill that can potential 3 shot anyone?So much power creep.And idk who suggested it but if tome pages would be shared among all tomes... sounds good. Also RF could recharge 50% of tomes, not 100% (for fb only)Necro shroud is ometankmode that easy to refill(50% damage reduction from all sources and slap protection over it, woohoo) with damage attached to it and I esecially dislike number 5 being unavoidable and unblockable and going through invulnerability.About damage co-efficient ... its not the only thing... look at ranger

pets

and your jaw might drop on the floor when you see it (dont forget how much damage they get from the traits and maul/attack of opportunity 50% ;) ) :joy:P.S condi/bunker revs are aids as heck too

Lol thanks for the gossip. This is why people been using the owl, I haven't got to noticed since I delete them first.

Sure, maybe for some idk, when I see a condi rev that's usually the reason why I win lmao, nobody knows how to play them, been asking for nerfs before regardless.

[Burnfall.9573]

-Necromancer Profession possibility of incoming nerfs-

[storm.3120]

@Shao.7236 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Shao.7236 said:It's weird, almost as if stuff that bends the rules on the cooldowns the reason why everything is so broken for these two, like there is something that completely carries the player away from their mistakes to just get back at spamming, quite an easy fix that Anet isn't bothered to notice but it's so obvious to the eye, are you guys asking for this?

Why allow Renewed Focus so rewarding for Tomes or make Tomes and pages this spammable back to back?

Why allow Necro to have itself saved every 30 seconds with an inevitable half/full shroud? Why not 90 seconds or even 300 seconds when you all know the utility skills have lower cooldowns that a good kitting Necro doesn't even need this trait to proc.

Why are you allowing so much BS in a competitive environment when it's clear what the problem is, you are allowing these people to get the free win with those decisions that went under the radar, same for Lich Form, why leave such strong co-efficient? Damage was nerfed all across the board by nearly 40% but you're gonna leave a skill that can potential 3 shot anyone?So much power creep.And idk who suggested it but if tome pages would be shared among all tomes... sounds good. Also RF could recharge 50% of tomes, not 100% (for fb only)Necro shroud is ometankmode that easy to refill(50% damage reduction from all sources and slap protection over it, woohoo) with damage attached to it and I esecially dislike number 5 being unavoidable and unblockable and going through invulnerability.About damage co-efficient ... its not the only thing... look at ranger

pets

and your jaw might drop on the floor when you see it (dont forget how much damage they get from the traits and maul/attack of opportunity 50% ;) ) :joy:P.S condi/bunker revs are aids as heck too

Lol thanks for the gossip. This is why people been using the owl, I haven't got to noticed since I delete them first.

Sure, maybe for some idk, when I see a condi rev that's usually the reason why I win lmao, nobody knows how to play them, been asking for nerfs before regardless.I'v got build from good rev friend and sustain/damage is insane. I mostly spammed skills but it was impossible to die to anything except for this damn core necromancers, real aids :D

[Vancho.8750]

I honestly think this is the fact that people got used to beating necro with no worries for years and now that it has kinda the same defense like everyone else people are way too confused, also conditions are cancer and didnt get nerfed so you get truckload of them POF style while not having enough return pressure since you know conditions are CCs and the best class to spread them is necro. You know what is the most cheese thing you can do, play crono and moa them two times when they go into shroud, one could be even enough.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Odik.4587 said:And idk who suggested it but if tome pages would be shared among all tomes... sounds good.

LOLgood way to kill the class right there. seems to be the way anet handles op things tho so hey might just become a reality.

[storm.3120]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Odik.4587 said:And idk who suggested it but if tome pages would be shared among all tomes... sounds good.

LOLgood way to kill the class right there. seems to be the way anet handles op things tho so hey might just become a reality.LOL.only if they didnt kill chrono and mirage before with way more absurd changes....This would make FB to not spam tomes like madman and unlike other virtues they can use tome abilities multiple times

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Odik.4587 said:LOL.only if they didnt kill chrono and mirage before with way more absurd changes....This would make FB to not spam tomes like madman and unlike other virtues they can use tome abilities multiple times

so cuz mes was destroyed other classes should be toosounds about righttomes were nerfed, so its prob time to look elsewhere if fb is still over performing

[Shao.7236]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Odik.4587 said:And idk who suggested it but if tome pages would be shared among all tomes... sounds good.

LOLgood way to kill the class right there. seems to be the way anet handles op things tho so hey might just become a reality.

How does it kill a class, you still get to use your tomes and the strongest skill in it yet STOPS people from spamming so easily by making all pages shared and recharge one every 5 second cooldown, it's WAY more fair and actually gives some management to the damn freaking class.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Shao.7236 said:How does it kill a class, you still get to use your strongest skill in the tomes, it just STOPS people from spamming so easily by making all pages shared and recharge one every 5 second cooldown, it's WAY more fair and actually gives some management to the kitten freaking class.

I suppose it depends on how many pages and the cd, but we're talking about cds on top of cds here and that sounds pretty convoluted and unnecessary. tomes are fine imo its mantras and symbols (plus symbolic power). if nerfing tomes only thing I would do is nerf # 1 range since 600 is pretty forgiving.

[Shao.7236]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Shao.7236 said:How does it kill a class, you still get to use your strongest skill in the tomes, it just STOPS people from spamming so easily by making all pages shared and recharge one every 5 second cooldown, it's WAY more fair and actually gives some management to the kitten freaking class.

I suppose it depends on how many pages and the cd, but we're talking about cds on top of cds here and that sounds pretty convoluted and unnecessary. tomes are fine imo its mantras and symbols (plus symbolic power). if nerfing tomes only thing I would do is nerf # 1 range since 600 is pretty forgiving.

If you have stability, symbol is barely of a problem. Just going full circle on the cooldowns everytime is. This is why I want my confusion back, so that facerolling is punished, if I don't get it then something has to be done about it.

[mortrialus.3062]

@claytonmorby.3751 said:Imagine wanting to ban/balance around 2v2

Never asked for balanced to be based on 2v2.

Cards get frequently limited and hard banned in Trading Card Games. Fighters frequently get banned in Fighting Games. Why not ban certain classes in certain PvP game modes when they've reached the status of mandatory?

[claytonmorby.3751]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"claytonmorby.3751" said:Imagine wanting to ban/balance around 2v2

Never asked for balanced to be based on 2v2.

Cards get frequently limited and hard banned in Trading Card Games. Fighters frequently get banned in Fighting Games. Why not ban certain classes in certain PvP game modes when they've reached the status of mandatory?

Nice false equivalence. This isn't a highly competitive game. It's an MMO. Other MMOs like WoW concede certain PvP modes and focus on balancing for their "main" mode.

And the title of this post asks for a ban in 2v2s. That's balancing around 2v2s.

[Kuma.1503]

@mortrialus.3062 said:Plenty of games and tournaments make no bones about outright banning things from play. If you were playing Super Smash Brothers Brawl competitively, Metaknight was banned. In Smash 4 Bayonetta was banned. If you played Street Fighter Old Sagat and Akuma were historic banned characters. During Street Fighter 4 Seth and Gouken had been banned. BlazBue Chronophantasma Kokonoe was banned. In Dragon Ball Fighter Z there are immense calls for GT Goku to be banned and a number of locals have done so. Every single TCG game from Magic, to Yu-Gi-Oh to Pokemon has banned cards.

I agree that FB Necro comps are too strong, but this is misinformation. It's very, very hard to get a character banned in fighting games. Bayonetta was never banned, but you could easily argue that she should have been. She single handedly lead to the most controversial grand finals tournament at the end of smash 4's lifespan. If you haven't seen the infamous moment, I suggest looking up Lima vs Captain Zac.

Meta Knight came very close to being banned in Brawl, there was a mass effort from the biggest tourney organizers to ban him at all tournaments. Unfortunately, one guy decided not to ban him at his tourney. He just so happened to be the owner of Apex, the biggest smash tourney world wide. Due to this one guy, the entire attempt to ban MK fell apart because people would rather play by the rules set by the biggest stage.

As for why it's so hard to get characters banned in fighting games. People invest countless hours into those characters. Namely, the big competetors like Zero, Nario, Dabuz, M2k, Leffen, Mango, ect. Players like these have huge influences in the community, they're who spectators come to see. If you ban a top tier like MK, you effectively ban these players from the tournament. It would be like going to a sports game only to realize that all of your favorite players have been replaced.

tl;dr, banning characters is hard. Attempts to do so almost always fail in fighting games, likely will here too.