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Anyone else feel like a ping pong ball lately?

Zexanima.7851

By Zexanima.7851
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Zexanima.7851

Zexanima.7851

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Went up against a FB, condi rev, double tempest comp last night and I felt like I was in a pinball machine. Granted, I was on scourge so some of that is to be expected but my team mates I was grouped with were pointing it out too so I figured it may not just be me. With the reduction in stab going around you think we might need a reduction in the amount/frequency of CC?

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Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

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its kinda the same as it was, if you're caught with out a defensive cd you're dead. except it happens faster now with the cd nerfs. cc spam is definitely a lot more noticeable if a team packs a ton of it, which maybe didn't happen as much pre patch. something I advocated for a while back is to give all stun breaks 2 stacks of stab @ 1 second, maybe 1 sec of resistance too.

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Zexanima.7851

Zexanima.7851

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:its kinda the same as it was, if you're caught with out a defensive cd you're dead. except it happens faster now with the cd nerfs. cc spam is definitely a lot more noticeable if a team packs a ton of it, which maybe didn't happen as much pre patch. something I advocated for a while back is to give all stun breaks 2 stacks of stab @ 1 second, maybe 1 sec of resistance too.

The reason teams are packing a ton of CC is because it's straight up stronger now. Load people with condi then CC into oblivion. The stab idea isn't bad. That way people after stun breaking at least have time to cast a skill or reposition. That match last night I was in, in the first fight I only got 1 skill off because of the constant CC. I was the last to die on my team but only from having barrier and being on cele stats. I would hate to image what its like on something like zerker

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saerni.2584

saerni.2584

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  1. Cleave doesn’t work well against downed.
  2. Stomp can be interrupted.
  3. Res can be interrupted.
  4. Stability is less prevalent.
  5. Everyone loads up with cc because sometimes it is the only way to win vs high impact res traits.

And now we are in a cc meta.

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Kuma.1503

Kuma.1503

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CC needs diminishing returns.

One thing WoW actually does right-- If you get CC'd any incoming CC of that type is reduced in duration by 50%. If you get stunned and then dazed, the daze will last its full duration, but if you get dazed twice, the second daze will be reduced by 50%, stacking each time. After the 3rd consecutive CC, you are immune to that CC until your diminishing returns wears off.

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monotony.4931

monotony.4931

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Not really. Decentlly coordinated players always used to chain their CC to force kills. Once they pinned you down it was virtually impossible to get away.

Now that CC does not obliterate you anymore it's actually much better. Good CC is followed up by damage. Bad CC isn't.

Got to love this patch. <3

Edited a typo.

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Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

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So in a couples of days , we moved to Tank can tank everything , to CC and dead ?Normaly it took 1 year for the Hammer/Mace Warriors +Knockback Enginners to arise in Vanilia , after the 100blade Quickness nerf (100>50% boon).(2013-2014)

Now the majority of the classses will get the burst of other fewer bursty classes , to be on par (stop the drama on the forums with whining / class defending) and an x-pack will be released soon ?

Whats the price of the x-pack?Let them choose with a pole , if they want ''rich'' - ''medium'' content ?

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AliamRationem.5172

AliamRationem.5172

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@Eurantien.4632 said:Take stability? Play with a support that provides stability?

Right. Just like we always do. However, there's a difference. In the current meta, sources of stability, stability durations, stunbreaks, and passive save cooldowns were all nerfed by a large degree pretty much across the board. CC, however, remained pretty much unchanged, the thought being that taking away the damage would be sufficient to reduce its impact. Obviously, that was not a great assumption, which is what people are observing here.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

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Eurantien.4632

Eurantien.4632

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:Take stability? Play with a support that provides stability?

Right. Just like we always do. However, there's a difference. In the current meta, sources of stability, stability durations, stunbreaks, and passive save cooldowns were all nerfed by a large degree pretty much across the board. CC, however, remained pretty much unchanged, the thought being that taking away the damage would be sufficient to reduce its impact. Obviously, that was not a great assumption, which is what people are observing here.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Yeah, sooooo many guards out there running stand your ground and indomitable courage to adjust to CC being stronger. Wait no, I've literally only seen 1. Failure to adapt =/= things are broken.

People are like Little John in Robin Hood Men in Tights drowning in a creek claiming they can't swim when all they have to do is get up and look around.

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AliamRationem.5172

AliamRationem.5172

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@Eurantien.4632 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:Take stability? Play with a support that provides stability?

Right. Just like we always do. However, there's a difference. In the current meta, sources of stability, stability durations, stunbreaks, and passive save cooldowns were all nerfed by a large degree pretty much across the board. CC, however, remained pretty much unchanged, the thought being that taking away the damage would be sufficient to reduce its impact. Obviously, that was not a great assumption, which is what people are observing here.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Yeah, sooooo many guards out there running stand your ground and indomitable courage to adjust to CC being stronger. Wait no, I've literally only seen 1. Failure to adapt =/= things are broken.

People are like Little John in Robin Hood Men in Tights drowning in a creek claiming they can't swim when all they have to do is get up and look around.

On the contrary, people are adapting. CC is more powerful now. There is much more of it relative to its available counters. That's why people are using more of it. There's a perfectly valid argument to be made that spamming CC to score lockdown kills is no more "skillful" than having all of those passives and stability. Which type of gameplay feels more satisfying? I would argue the "ping-pong" part of this meta is my least favorite part.

Edit: I also wanted to say that I have added stone resonance to my weaver build since the patch in response to the increase in CC and I'm feeling pretty good with my build in 2v2, 5v5, and WvW roaming. I'm not opposed to adaptation. I'm just not sure slashing defense against CC without also trimming sources of CC was an improvement to the gameplay.

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Eurantien.4632

Eurantien.4632

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:Take stability? Play with a support that provides stability?

Right. Just like we always do. However, there's a difference. In the current meta, sources of stability, stability durations, stunbreaks, and passive save cooldowns were all nerfed by a large degree pretty much across the board. CC, however, remained pretty much unchanged, the thought being that taking away the damage would be sufficient to reduce its impact. Obviously, that was not a great assumption, which is what people are observing here.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Yeah, sooooo many guards out there running stand your ground and indomitable courage to adjust to CC being stronger. Wait no, I've literally only seen 1. Failure to adapt =/= things are broken.

People are like Little John in Robin Hood Men in Tights drowning in a creek claiming they can't swim when all they have to do is get up and look around.

On the contrary, people are adapting. CC is more powerful now. There is much more of it relative to its available counters. That's why people are using more of it. There's a perfectly valid argument to be made that spamming CC to score lockdown kills is no more "skillful" than having all of those passives and stability. Which type of gameplay feels more satisfying? I would argue the "ping-pong" part of this meta is my least favorite part.

Edit: I also wanted to say that I have added stone resonance to my weaver build since the patch in response to the increase in CC and I'm feeling pretty good with my build in 2v2, 5v5, and WvW roaming. I'm not opposed to adaptation. I'm just not sure slashing defense against CC without also trimming sources of CC was an improvement to the gameplay.

I think it's literally impossible for people to use more CC. CC didn't become more ubiquitous, either in quantity or in frequency (cds)...

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AliamRationem.5172

AliamRationem.5172

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@Eurantien.4632 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:Take stability? Play with a support that provides stability?

Right. Just like we always do. However, there's a difference. In the current meta, sources of stability, stability durations, stunbreaks, and passive save cooldowns were all nerfed by a large degree pretty much across the board. CC, however, remained pretty much unchanged, the thought being that taking away the damage would be sufficient to reduce its impact. Obviously, that was not a great assumption, which is what people are observing here.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Yeah, sooooo many guards out there running stand your ground and indomitable courage to adjust to CC being stronger. Wait no, I've literally only seen 1. Failure to adapt =/= things are broken.

People are like Little John in Robin Hood Men in Tights drowning in a creek claiming they can't swim when all they have to do is get up and look around.

On the contrary, people are adapting. CC is more powerful now. There is much more of it relative to its available counters. That's why people are using more of it. There's a perfectly valid argument to be made that spamming CC to score lockdown kills is no more "skillful" than having all of those passives and stability. Which type of gameplay feels more satisfying? I would argue the "ping-pong" part of this meta is my least favorite part.

Edit: I also wanted to say that I have added stone resonance to my weaver build since the patch in response to the increase in CC and I'm feeling pretty good with my build in 2v2, 5v5, and WvW roaming. I'm not opposed to adaptation. I'm just not sure slashing defense against CC without also trimming sources of CC was an improvement to the gameplay.

I think it's literally impossible for people to use more CC. CC didn't become more ubiquitous, either in quantity or in frequency (cds)...

Defense against CC was reduced dramatically, while sources of CC remained the same. The result is that CC is more effective than it used to be. Naturally, players who seek advantage will be more likely to use skills that are relatively more powerful than they were previously.

I can't confirm that the current meta is, in fact, heavier on CC, but it feels that way and the explanation for it seems pretty obvious.

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JusticeRetroHunter.7684

JusticeRetroHunter.7684

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@Stallic.2397 said:I literally created a whole thread about it... but nope, everyone was like. Oh it'll be fine

Ya and people said “lol just adept” as if they think they can play WvW large scale with no firebrands

Low and behold firebrand is still meta. Not a surprise.

Diminishing returns would imo fix a lot of issues with compounding Cc’s. Nerving the damage on Cc’s just didn’t do anything but obscure the balance of power

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