Story-Strike Mission was a clever choice

[thepenmonster.3621]

@Elden Arnaas.4870 said:I have participated in raids and strikes, and I do not like the style of game play - I think it is very un-fun.

I have the same reasons for not wanting to play that sort of content. Having played PvP in the past is why I don't PvP in GW2 either.

BUUUUUUUUUTTTT~

The game has been lacking content for people who do want to group up for a while now. I can accept that this content isn't being made for me and that's cool. If there's story locked behind it I can watch Kroof or Mukluk or WP or someone else do a LP and get caught up on it. Only time will tell if this push works for Anet, but for me it won't. That's cool too. There will be something for me next month with episode 3.

[maddoctor.2738]

@thepenmonster.3621 said:The game has been lacking content for people who do want to group up for a while now. I can accept that this content isn't being made for me and that's cool. If there's story locked behind it I can watch Kroof or Mukluk or WP or someone else do a LP and get caught up on it. Only time will tell if this push works for Anet, but for me it won't. That's cool too. There will be something for me next month with episode 3.

The instance is solo-friendly. It might take longer than doing it with friends, but there is absolutely nothing in it that requires more than one player. So if you want the story, it's perfectly doable without relying on others, just select SQUAD instead of PUBLIC and you are done.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Astralporing.1957 said:Sure. In fact, the Strikes vere so popular, they had to introduce additional incentives to make people do them in this patch.

Let's turn this around a bit. If the open world is so popular, why do we have to do soooo many repetitions of various achievements to complete the meta of an episode?

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@"Elden Arnaas.4870" said:re: Bold assumption. A small group here thinking they're the majority. - No, based on ANet's own admission that raids aren't attracting enough players, and are still a relatively small group. Which is the reason strikes were added. And why they're trying to find ways to coerce players into doing strikes, which should ensure that they're going to do (and love) raids, right?

The second sentence after the heading "Raids" may interest you.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97028/a-message-from-andrew-gray

Actually, I'll just put it here, and save you the trouble. Please do fact check me if you have any doubt.

They're a unique experience and community that we want to find better ways to support, the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract.

Also:Our intention was for Strike Missions to be that intermediary step into 10-person content.

And again, please do fact check if you have any doubt.

(edited- grammar, clarity, supporting info)

A good example of taking a comment, and turning it from apple into an orange to fit your agenda and narrative.

But hey, it's cool to feel almighty in this small hub of ours.

[Pirogen.9561]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:Sure. In fact, the Strikes vere so popular, they had to introduce additional incentives to make people do them in this patch.

Let's turn this around a bit. If the open world is so popular, why do we have to do soooo many repetitions of various achievements to complete the meta of an episode?

Padding. So "content" lasts longer. Old trick.

[yann.1946]

@"Elden Arnaas.4870" said:re: Not my type of content! - Story should be for everyone. Those of us who like story resent it being locked behind content not intended for everyone.(Raids and strikes are, by definition, not for everyone.)

In what sense are strikes not for everyone? Like dungeons aren't meant for everyone?

re: Tricking us! - If you can't recognize subterfuge by now, I don't think I can help you.

Let me tell you a small secret, all games trick you in some facet.

Un-fun, because I'm expected to press more than one button! - You assume that anyone and everyone who doesn't raid has no idea how to play or is completely incapable. Do keep wondering why non-raiders think that the raid community is un-welcoming and hostile.

While i agree that its a baseless assumption. This mentality is a minority even in the raidcommunity.

Something went wrong when I was playing, therefore the instance is bad! - That is just baseless, like the other assumptions. But y'know - why reinvent the wheel instead of going with what already works? New stuff is more likely(than old methods) to be buggy.

Dantes post was probably the base of this statement. Where they mentioned the problems of storyprogression.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Pirogen.9561 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:Sure. In fact, the Strikes vere so popular, they had to introduce additional incentives to make people do them in this patch.

Let's turn this around a bit. If the open world is so popular, why do we have to do soooo many repetitions of various achievements to complete the meta of an episode?

Padding. So "content" lasts longer. Old trick.

Agreed!If we need padding, it means content by itself isn't good enough and needs additional "incentives" to gather the attention of players. In one case (strike missions) it's extra rewards (which were badly needed btw) and in the other case lots of repetition (padding)

[Braynz.2906]

@"Randulf.7614" said:Any quote involving that post should always be in full. Andrew follows it up with

“We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there isn't anything to help players work their way up.”

That suggests that raids are the main issue not multi player content in general and that the issue isnt the multi player aspect, but the accessibility. People seem to want to do them, but are put off because of accessibility, lack of confidence etc caused by the difficulty spike. They did a great job addressing that with this extra side content.

I agree "giant leap in difficulty" is a rather vague statement - for me the difficulty is finding the time to do raids (they are too resource hungry), for others it may be playing in a group or not having the required reactions to respond to the boss - there may be many reasons why people find raids diffcult, not just the mechanics.Being dumped on a boss in a Strike Misson is not the answer but this latest incarnation seems to be a better and more interesting solution - it still won't get me to play raids though.What Anet should do is assume no one reads the wiki or the forum and come up with some useful tutorials - DPS/CD/CC, Combi Fields, Breakbar, Boss Tells, Effective Builds - it just might make players more confident in their abilities.

[Astralporing.1957]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Pirogen.9561 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Astralporing.1957" said:Sure. In fact, the Strikes vere so popular, they had to introduce additional incentives to make people do them in this patch.

Let's turn this around a bit. If the open world is so popular, why do we have to do soooo many repetitions of various achievements to complete the meta of an episode?

Padding. So "content" lasts longer. Old trick.

Agreed!If we need padding, it means content by itself isn't good enough and needs additional "incentives" to gather the attention of players. In one case (strike missions) it's extra rewards (which were badly needed btw) and in the other case lots of repetition (padding)Those are different things for different purposes. Increased incentives are to bring players into the content they would not play otherwise. Padding however is used to extend playtime in content players

do

already play - it does

not

make more people interested in it.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Was staying away from this thread since I hadn't done the content. Did it last night with a guildmate and we joined a public one. When the mission kicked off there was 6 of us in group. Ran thru and didn't really run into any issues. Don't feel we even needed 6 to be honest. The game walked thru a number of mechanics before the final boss and then if in doubt just listened to what the NPCs were saying as you went. Overall was pretty smooth. Would probably try and solo this since you do have a group of NPCs with you as well. Now maybe this scales up more quickly as you get closer to 10, will have to retry and see how it feels with a full group.

As far as group versus solo, even if you were solo there wasn't much pressure from other groupmates doing things right or wrong so not a big deal there. I can appreciate people that want to try content on their own and at their leisure but that pace was pretty subdued. If anything would wonder if there was a way for a players action to speed it up some.

[zealex.9410]

@Elden Arnaas.4870 said:Do you even realize how arrogant and elitist that sounds? Don't wonder why ANet is so desperately trying to prop up raids.

Group content =/= raids.

Raids are far harder and require more coordination and specialised builds to do, this doesnt.

Its group content for the sake of being group content and to ease ppl to group content, it aint gonna make you like raids overnight only raids will do that.

Its not black and white, its simply some easy group content for story which tbh adds to enjoyment for some.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Astralporing.1957 said:Those are different things for different purposes. Increased incentives are to bring players into the content they would not play otherwise. Padding however is used to extend playtime in content players do already play - it does not make more people interested in it.

And you are saying the map meta achievements do not have any incentives? Or map zones in general?

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

re: I can accept that this content isn't being made for me and that's cool. If there's story locked behind it I can watch Kroof or Mukluk or WP or someone else do a LP and get caught up on it. - Story takes a lot of resources to develop, so it's a waste to lock it behind content intended for only the top few percent of players. Yes, we aren't quite there yet, but this is escalating. Last month there was a thread about zone meta achievements being locked behind strikes:Including Strike Mission Achievements as a Required Part of the Zone Metahttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97716/including-strike-mission-achievements-as-a-required-part-of-the-zone-meta

Some people said the OP was over reacting, but he countered that he wasn't just concerned for the current issue "zone meta achievements gated by strikes" but that this trend would escalate. And it has - story is now gated by a strike. While this current story-gating "strike" is not really representative of what strikes actually are, I think that this is going to escalate, and story will get gated by real strikes, which are exclusionary content not intended for everyone. Why should story be for only the top few percent of players? I don't want to watch a video of someone else doing the story - I want to do it myself, or with a few (less than 10) friends.

Once again, why should story be restricted, so that only a minority of players can do it? Why can't story be for the majority of us, or even- gasp EVERYONE?
(edit -typo)

[flog.3485]

@"Elden Arnaas.4870" said:re: I can accept that this content isn't being made for me and that's cool. If there's story locked behind it I can watch Kroof or Mukluk or WP or someone else do a LP and get caught up on it. - Story takes a lot of resources to develop, so it's a waste to lock it behind content intended for only the top few percent of players. Yes, we aren't quite there yet, but this is escalating. Last month there was a thread about zone meta achievements being locked behind strikes:Including Strike Mission Achievements as a Required Part of the Zone Metahttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/97716/including-strike-mission-achievements-as-a-required-part-of-the-zone-meta

Some people said the OP was over reacting, but he countered that he wasn't just concerned for the current issue "zone meta achievements gated by strikes" but that this trend would escalate. And it has - story is now gated by a strike. While this current story-gating "strike" is not really representative of what strikes actually are, I think that this is going to escalate, and story will get gated by real strikes, which are exclusionary content not intended for everyone. Why should story be for only the top few percent of players? I don't want to watch a video of someone else doing the story - I want to do it myself, or with few (less than 10) friends.

Once again, why should story be restricted, so that only a minority of players can do it? Why can't story be for the majority of us, or even- gasp EVERYONE?

But the story is for everyone, people have been low-manning it. When I first did it, I ended up doing it with a group of four in a public setting. Why do you keep assuming that it requires 10 players ? This event is like any typical open world chain of event that leads to some world boss, it is even easier than that because you can’t actually fail the final boss.

Other than that, stop assuming that strike missions are tuned for the “top few percent of players”. I personally have been busy doing only open world for like the last 2 and a half years and even I could kill strike mission bosses. But then again, like everything in this game, it does require to know about the basic mechanics.

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

Yes, this current story-gating strike is not a typical strike. It really isn't a strike at all - it doesn't require a 10 member group, its game play is not typical of strikes, and it is easier than is typical of strikes. So that's okay for now, but what about future releases? If this keeps escalating, they will at some point gate mainstream story behind actual 10 member required, actual raid-mechanics strikes.

And I won't do it - there is no legitimate reason I should have to form a 10 member group to do story. A player should be able to do story whenever they have the time and the inclination. No need for anyone else, no special gear or build required, no memorization by rote of long key sequences that only have use in a particular game mode, etc... If I want to do story right now, I should be able to do story right now. If I want to do story with one or two friends, we should be able to do story without having to pull together a much larger group, and without extensive prep. I do not want to be forced to do story with strangers. You already have the option to group with strangers to do story if that's what you want - but it shouldn't be required. Story should be inclusive not exclusive. There are raids and strikes for those who want their exclusive super-challenging game play.

I wish ANet could alter story to include the option of up to 10 member groups, and that they could put an optional challenge mote in every story instance. But I don't think that's practical to do.

Maybe I'm wrong and strikes will get the majority of the player base doing raids - then ANet might be justified in locking story behind raids. I guess we'll see.

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

re: But then again, like everything in this game, it does require to know about the basic mechanics. - Once again, another cheap shot from someone who assumes that anyone who doesn't want to raid knows nothing about playing the game and is totally incapable. Do you realize that attitude is one of the things hurting raids as a game mode right now?

[Etria.3642]

@"Elden Arnaas.4870" said:re: But then again, like everything in this game, it does require to know about the basic mechanics. - Once again, another cheap shot from someone who assumes that anyone who doesn't want to raid knows nothing about playing the game and is totally incapable. Do you realize that attitude is one of the things hurting raids as a game mode right now?

There is a vast world of difference between elite top end raid performance and the various levels beneath. It isn't an either or. IE, I know lots of folks who don't raid and are perfectly competent elsewhere, BUT I ALSO KNOW lots of folks who are NOT perfectly competent in ANY mode. And they snap at me if I even make one tiny polite little suggestion. Ie, Hey, everyone, hop in the tank and hold down the 3, instead of spamming, it will help." "DON'T TELL ME HOW TO PLAY!"

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

There are raiders who are toxic elitists, and there are non-raiders who are not receptive to polite instruction. But they aren't typical of everyone in their camp. They do gather a lot of attention, though.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

Its possible to solo but more rewarding if you complete more events that require partying up. I'd add Strike Missions to my daily routine if they were built like this.

[thepenmonster.3621]

@"Elden Arnaas.4870" said:While this current story-gating "strike" is not really representative of what strikes actually are, I think that this is going to escalate

The thing is Steel and Fire is the epitome of optional. It holds nothing of substance in regards to the game story. If Darkrime was a strike, then I'd see a basis for your concern.

In the end, if Anet starts locking story behind raids then all you do is walk away and go play something else more suited to you. I will.

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

re: Its possible to solo but more rewarding if you complete more events that require partying up. I'd add Strike Missions to my daily routine if they were built like this. - Now that I've soloed Steel and Fire, I feel the same way. But only because Steel and Fire isn't a real strike. I could never solo a real strike. I think ANet should make strikes like Steel and Fire,( 1 to 10 players, story mechanics instead of raid mechanics) instead of like easy mode raids. I think they'd get more people playing them. But the purpose of strikes is to get players playing raids, so this certainly won't happen. Maybe make more content like this an call them "missions"?(which is really what they are)

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

@thepenmonster.3621Thank you for your polite, well worded recommendations. It was very kind of you to tap me on the shoulder and try to help me out twice, and I sincerely appreciate that you took the time and effort to do so.But I will not take your well intended recommendations at this time - I'm not ready to give up yet.Thanks again.

[Elden Arnaas.4870]

re:The thing is Steel and Fire is the epitome of optional. It holds nothing of substance in regards to the game story. If Darkrime was a strike, then I'd see a basis for your concern. - This is a good point. But if you can't skip Steel and Fire, it still gates Darkrime Delves. I realize that is this particular case it isn't really an issue because Steel and Fire isn't really a strike. Can you you actually skip Steel and Fire and go straight to Darkrime Delves?