Please Remove Rune of Trapper

[fumcheg.1936]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, but there is usually no point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also looks like a lot of people believe that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

[Math.5123]

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

[UNOwen.7132]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can sidestep it. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal.

[fumcheg.1936]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it.

Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage.

[Math.5123]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can

sidestep it

. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal.

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it.

Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage.

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge.

You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous.

[fumcheg.1936]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can

sidestep it

. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal.

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it.

Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage.

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge.

You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous.

If you read this thread, which you obviously did not, you would know the topic is about trapper rune and an access it provides to "non target, unterruptible, nunblockable and derived from esternal source" stealth. Which you for some reason compare with all opposite skill which also costs initiative. So yes this is ridiculous, but not because of you think it is.

CnD actually works as any other melee skill. But it does not provide "free stealth". And all these combos like 2+5+basi to get 1 short window of stealth just to land (or not land) sneak attack is definitely not something you will do with this build.

[Math.5123]

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can

sidestep it

. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal.

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it.

Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage.

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge.

You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous.

If you read this thread, which you obviously did not, you would know the topic is about trapper rune and an access it provides to "non target, unterruptible, nunblockable and derived from esternal source" stealth. Which you for some reason compare with all opposite skill which also costs initiative. So yes this is ridiculous, but not because of you think it is.

CnD actually works as any other melee skill. But it does not provide "free stealth". And all these combos like 2+5+basi to get 1 short window of stealth just to land (or not land) sneak attack is definitely not something you will do with this build.

You know what? You're right, dagger 5 is impossible to hit and even if you somehow manage to hit this god awful ability; it doesn't stealth. /s

Git gud

Also, you can negate the invis trapper runes give you by stepping into the traps.

[fumcheg.1936]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can

sidestep it

. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal.

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it.

Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage.

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge.

You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous.

If you read this thread, which you obviously did not, you would know the topic is about trapper rune and an access it provides to "non target, unterruptible, nunblockable and derived from esternal source" stealth. Which you for some reason compare with all opposite skill which also costs initiative. So yes this is ridiculous, but not because of you think it is.

CnD actually works as any other melee skill. But it does not provide "free stealth". And all these combos like 2+5+basi to get 1 short window of stealth just to land (or not land) sneak attack is definitely not something you will do with this build.

You know what? You're right, dagger 5 is impossible to hit and even if you somehow manage to hit this god awful ability; it doesn't stealth. /s

Git gud

Also, you can negate the invis trapper runes give you by stepping into the traps.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can

sidestep it

. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal.

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it.

Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage.

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge.

You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous.

If you read this thread, which you obviously did not, you would know the topic is about trapper rune and an access it provides to "non target, unterruptible, nunblockable and derived from esternal source" stealth. Which you for some reason compare with all opposite skill which also costs initiative. So yes this is ridiculous, but not because of you think it is.

CnD actually works as any other melee skill. But it does not provide "free stealth". And all these combos like 2+5+basi to get 1 short window of stealth just to land (or not land) sneak attack is definitely not something you will do with this build.

You know what? You're right, dagger 5 is impossible to hit and even if you somehow manage to hit this god awful ability; it doesn't stealth. /s

Git gud

Also, you can negate the invis trapper runes give you by stepping into the traps.

Step into trap. By thief. Is the solution. Ok, now I see why you don't play thief and only do theorycrafting.

[MysteryMen.3791]

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can

sidestep it

. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal.

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it.

Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage.

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge.

You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous.

If you read this thread, which you obviously did not, you would know the topic is about trapper rune and an access it provides to "non target, unterruptible, nunblockable and derived from esternal source" stealth. Which you for some reason compare with all opposite skill which also costs initiative. So yes this is ridiculous, but not because of you think it is.

CnD actually works as any other melee skill. But it does not provide "free stealth". And all these combos like 2+5+basi to get 1 short window of stealth just to land (or not land) sneak attack is definitely not something you will do with this build.

You know what? You're right, dagger 5 is impossible to hit and even if you somehow manage to hit this god awful ability; it doesn't stealth. /s

Git gud

Also, you can negate the invis trapper runes give you by stepping into the traps.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can

sidestep it

. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal.

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it.

Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage.

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge.

You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous.

If you read this thread, which you obviously did not, you would know the topic is about trapper rune and an access it provides to "non target, unterruptible, nunblockable and derived from esternal source" stealth. Which you for some reason compare with all opposite skill which also costs initiative. So yes this is ridiculous, but not because of you think it is.

CnD actually works as any other melee skill. But it does not provide "free stealth". And all these combos like 2+5+basi to get 1 short window of stealth just to land (or not land) sneak attack is definitely not something you will do with this build.

You know what? You're right, dagger 5 is impossible to hit and even if you somehow manage to hit this god awful ability; it doesn't stealth. /s

Git gud

Also, you can negate the invis trapper runes give you by stepping into the traps.

Step into trap. By thief. Is the solution. Ok, now I see why you don't play thief and only do theorycrafting.

so you are giving a situation where a thief is 1v1ing a DH... You know that should never happen right? When looking at overall meta and actual situations DH will be against an engi or a ranger or some other sidenode spec which can indeed just tank a small hit from traps. As a thief +1ing that you could also step in the trap to reveal them because amazingly condi thief is kinda tanky running carrion amulet and doesn't insta die. Thief has a lot of access to stealth that is both instant and low cooldown so you can enter stealth a lot. The access to it via traps is irrelevant because traps are fairly garbage anyway and you can just reveal them with the exact same trap.

[fumcheg.1936]

@MysteryMen.3791 said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can

sidestep it

. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal.

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it.

Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage.

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge.

You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous.

If you read this thread, which you obviously did not, you would know the topic is about trapper rune and an access it provides to "non target, unterruptible, nunblockable and derived from esternal source" stealth. Which you for some reason compare with all opposite skill which also costs initiative. So yes this is ridiculous, but not because of you think it is.

CnD actually works as any other melee skill. But it does not provide "free stealth". And all these combos like 2+5+basi to get 1 short window of stealth just to land (or not land) sneak attack is definitely not something you will do with this build.

You know what? You're right, dagger 5 is impossible to hit and even if you somehow manage to hit this god awful ability; it doesn't stealth. /s

Git gud

Also, you can negate the invis trapper runes give you by stepping into the traps.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can

sidestep it

. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal.

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it.

Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage.

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge.

You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous.

If you read this thread, which you obviously did not, you would know the topic is about trapper rune and an access it provides to "non target, unterruptible, nunblockable and derived from esternal source" stealth. Which you for some reason compare with all opposite skill which also costs initiative. So yes this is ridiculous, but not because of you think it is.

CnD actually works as any other melee skill. But it does not provide "free stealth". And all these combos like 2+5+basi to get 1 short window of stealth just to land (or not land) sneak attack is definitely not something you will do with this build.

You know what? You're right, dagger 5 is impossible to hit and even if you somehow manage to hit this god awful ability; it doesn't stealth. /s

Git gud

Also, you can negate the invis trapper runes give you by stepping into the traps.

Step into trap. By thief. Is the solution. Ok, now I see why you don't play thief and only do theorycrafting.

so you are giving a situation where a thief is 1v1ing a DH... You know that should never happen right? When looking at overall meta and actual situations DH will be against an engi or a ranger or some other sidenode spec which can indeed just tank a small hit from traps. As a thief +1ing that you could also step in the trap to reveal them because amazingly condi thief is kinda tanky running carrion amulet and doesn't insta die. Thief has a lot of access to stealth that is both instant and low cooldown so you can enter stealth a lot. The access to it via traps is irrelevant because traps are fairly garbage anyway and you can just reveal them with the exact same trap.

Well, frankly speaking, condi core thief is actually fine with 1vs1, with most classes, even against DH. It provides you with possibility not to be just a +1 roamer. That's why it is so popular. I would even say it is not that good for+1 because of significantly lower mobility than meta D/P DD. And that's why I use Shadow Portal instead of Roll for Ini. But that was not the point. The point was that some ppl for some reason began to compare free stealth from rune and thief's CnD which is not even being used that much in current p/d condi build. At least at sPvP. Thief has a lot access to stealth, but not the condi p/d one.

And although I sad that trapper rune is bad, I also said that I have no problems with it. It's just bad by design. So I don't really care if it will be removed or not.

And btw, carrion thief still CAN be oneshoted by traps on point if it's only stubreaker is on CD, I tested it :)

[Math.5123]

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@MysteryMen.3791 said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can

sidestep it

. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal.

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it.

Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage.

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge.

You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous.

If you read this thread, which you obviously did not, you would know the topic is about trapper rune and an access it provides to "non target, unterruptible, nunblockable and derived from esternal source" stealth. Which you for some reason compare with all opposite skill which also costs initiative. So yes this is ridiculous, but not because of you think it is.

CnD actually works as any other melee skill. But it does not provide "free stealth". And all these combos like 2+5+basi to get 1 short window of stealth just to land (or not land) sneak attack is definitely not something you will do with this build.

You know what? You're right, dagger 5 is impossible to hit and even if you somehow manage to hit this god awful ability; it doesn't stealth. /s

Git gud

Also, you can negate the invis trapper runes give you by stepping into the traps.

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can

sidestep it

. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal.

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it.

Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage.

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge.

You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous.

If you read this thread, which you obviously did not, you would know the topic is about trapper rune and an access it provides to "non target, unterruptible, nunblockable and derived from esternal source" stealth. Which you for some reason compare with all opposite skill which also costs initiative. So yes this is ridiculous, but not because of you think it is.

CnD actually works as any other melee skill. But it does not provide "free stealth". And all these combos like 2+5+basi to get 1 short window of stealth just to land (or not land) sneak attack is definitely not something you will do with this build.

You know what? You're right, dagger 5 is impossible to hit and even if you somehow manage to hit this god awful ability; it doesn't stealth. /s

Git gud

Also, you can negate the invis trapper runes give you by stepping into the traps.

Step into trap. By thief. Is the solution. Ok, now I see why you don't play thief and only do theorycrafting.

so you are giving a situation where a thief is 1v1ing a DH... You know that should never happen right? When looking at overall meta and actual situations DH will be against an engi or a ranger or some other sidenode spec which can indeed just tank a small hit from traps. As a thief +1ing that you could also step in the trap to reveal them because amazingly condi thief is kinda tanky running carrion amulet and doesn't insta die. Thief has a lot of access to stealth that is both instant and low cooldown so you can enter stealth a lot. The access to it via traps is irrelevant because traps are fairly garbage anyway and you can just reveal them with the exact same trap.

The point was that some ppl for some reason began to compare free stealth from rune and thief's CnD which is not even being used that much in current p/d condi build.

How is dedicating 2-4 utility slots and a rune "free stealth"? When it also has outplay potential by literally tanking the traps for the INITIAL damage to reveal the DH / Ranger laying the traps. No one asks you to tank them for the full duration.

[UNOwen.7132]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can

sidestep it

. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal.

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it.

Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage.

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge.

"Literally any other melee ability" either has longer range, an associated dash, or is on a class that that has other easily accessible fast dashes, or stuns. The thieves that would want to use CnD dont really have any of those.

You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous.

Youre arguing what-ifs. Did you never wonder why D/D thief is unplayable and why the others generally dont use CnD?

[fumcheg.1936]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

How is dedicating 2-4 utility slots and a rune "free stealth"? When it also has outplay potential by literally tanking the traps for the INITIAL damage to reveal the DH / Ranger laying the traps. No one asks you to tank them for the full duration.

You don't dedicate 2-4 slots for stealth. You dedicate it to get access to traps. That's why they call them "trapper". And stealth from rune is just a free bonus. And I don't know how you play that build but from my point of view main point of invis in this build is to force your foes to lose their target and reposition yourself. But I can be wrong, I played it last time like 2 years ago. And again I don't care about DH. Just don't put thief near this free stealth build.

[MysteryMen.3791]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can

sidestep it

. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal.

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it.

Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage.

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge.

"Literally any other melee ability" either has longer range, an associated dash, or is on a class that that has other easily accessible fast dashes, or stuns. The thieves that would want to use CnD dont really have any of those.

You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous.

Youre arguing what-ifs. Did you never wonder why D/D thief is unplayable and why the others generally dont use CnD?

thief also has an immob on pistol 2 you can use to combo into it with, or just let people come to you first then use it idk, I don't have problems with it.

and no I don't wonder why D/D is unplayable, spoiler alert it isn't because CnD is weak. Also condi thieves do use CnD as part of their kit because its genuinely useful and handy to have instant melee stealth.

[Math.5123]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can

sidestep it

. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal.

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it.

Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage.

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge.

"Literally any other melee ability" either has longer range, an associated dash, or is on a class that that has other easily accessible fast dashes, or stuns. The thieves that would want to use CnD dont really have any of those.

You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous.

Youre arguing what-ifs. Did you never wonder why D/D thief is unplayable and why the others generally dont use CnD?

No, because you're arguing that you can't hit it. Not that you don't use it. That's the difference. The power level of said skill is irrelevant.

[Koen.1327]

you can cc the moment you see putting down a trapeven if you are too late and the trap has been put, your cc will prevent superspeed and stealth from triggering

[UNOwen.7132]

@MysteryMen.3791 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

S/D has no reason to waste initiative on CnD. P/Ds immob is not going to land since its projectile is so slow the enemy can

sidestep it

. Sure you can combine it with steal, but youd rather combine shadow strike with steal.

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@fumcheg.1936 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Meme Builds Only.5107 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

Cloak and Dagger is .5 second cast time :)

didn't really counter his point by reading the tooltips....

actually, did you even make a point?

Well, he did say it has 1.25s cast time. Which just isn't true.

It is true for the only viable stealth weapon theif has access to. CnD is not viable.

It's literally like any other melee ability out there. Can even couple it with teleports if you struggle to land it. Or immob.

Edit, or hit clones, pets, minions, beasts, doors.

You can try it yourself. I promiss you will be suprised about how it actually does not in reallity with all this aoe blindness, blocks, condis, channelling. It may be possible in group fights though, there is now point to go invis in group fights. And no, you won't use your only stunbreaker (with long CD) to land CnD. It also look like a lot of people that thief's initiative is kinda infinite...

I mean, check the build at least before you post about it.

Both SD and PD has on demand immob. Steal is also a teleport, so you don't have to burn shadowstep. I've played it, tried out Condi thief and sitting at just above 70% winrate in plat 3 eu. You're bad if you can't land it. I'm sorry

That's what I'm talking about. Another theory crafter. You use your steal during your burst then it goes on 26 sec CD. Bola Shot cost i 4 ini. And it does not even garantee that your CnD will land. It does not even garantee that BS itself will land. Anyway with CnD it's total 9 ini. I believe you are one of those guys with infinite ini if you can afford to waste 9 ini just to TRY to go invis. And you do like zero damage with it.

Clones and beasts - yes, it's possible. But when you CnD them you do not actually hit your enemy and still keep taking damage.

I mean, I don't know what to tell you guys. It's up there with literally any other melee ability in the game. I never said anything about infinite initiative, those are your words. You have plenty of options to land your abilities, everything from walking into melee range and use it, to blink use it, Basi it for unblockable, immob to secure that they won't dodge.

"Literally any other melee ability" either has longer range, an associated dash, or is on a class that that has other easily accessible fast dashes, or stuns. The thieves that would want to use CnD dont really have any of those.

You're literally arguing such what-ifs it's getting ridiculous.

Youre arguing what-ifs. Did you never wonder why D/D thief is unplayable and why the others generally dont use CnD?

thief also has an immob on pistol 2 you can use to combo into it with, or just let people come to you first then use it idk, I don't have problems with it.

Ever wondered why Pistol thieves dont use pistol 2? Because you can literally sidestep it. So you cant. And if people are close enough, CnD is not going to work out in your favour. Try to cast it and you will find yourself stunned and killed.

and no I don't wonder why D/D is unplayable, spoiler alert it isn't because CnD is weak. Also condi thieves do use CnD as part of their kit because its genuinely useful and handy to have instant melee stealth.

CnD is actually a large part of why D/D sucks. A lack of long-range teleport is the other one. Condi Thieves rarely use it because its bad. Its only real use is getting your sneak attack immediately, but you want to do that in a combo field like your SR anyway. Using it otherwise? Melee stealth just means the enemy gets free cleave as you are stuck defenseless.

[Zephoid.4263]

DH isn't viable without trapper. The class's damage, mobility, and durability are not on par with any other power or condi class currently in meta. Longbow is one of the worst weapons that you can take as a guard. Trapper gives a TON of utility, but you are still facing a DH at the end of the day. Trapper doesn't give power stats, and condi trapper means using power traps with a condi build and foregoing F1. So you are gimping the already poor damage of DH to take the runes at minimum. I've played with it and the build is better than i expected, but it isn't carrying games.

[nativity.3057]

I'm actually confused why DH trapper runes is a problem.

DH trap is Power based.Trapper runes is Condi damage.

Please enlighten me.

[XECOR.2814]

I feel like they should remove trapper rune from the game.

[Revolution.5409]

I don't understand the problem are the runes or that Guardian can become invisible?If the problem is the second, it would be enough to change the DH traps into something else, and not remove the rune.

[Sneakers.8462]

If you know the other team has a Dragonhunter, and you see them go into stealth (usually on a node) its pretty obvious on where the traps are. Most classes have access to skills and or traits that can reveal those in stealth and skills that work on stealth targets such has Necromancer marks. Also, dodging exists which is fairly easy to do as DH traps have obvious animations.From personal experience, DH isn't that much of a threat in stealth either. Once they use a skill they're revealed anyway and lack the mobility to do any sort of sneaky Thief-like tricks.Sounds very much like a YOU problem, not being able to outplay a DH.

[NotFound.7813]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:HAAAAA Well would you look at that guys?

Stealth class be like : "rune of the trapper allow dragon hunters to hide important animations diminishing counterplay

and I am like : " wasn't losing to stealth builds just a huge L2P issue accordingly to thieves and mesmers? "

The kind of irony you only find within @Crab Fear.1624 threads....

Such hypocrisy ...it's a L2P issue as long as you're the one abusing it am I right?

I said I would give up stealth, but I expect compensation.

Ill take some aegis and Shield of Wrath as one of my thief weapon skills.

Go right ahead, they are both trash. I'll take invis on demand as a weapon skill over blocking 3 attacks any day.

Just remember that that invis on demand comes with a 1.25 second cast time. You will quickly realise why it is that thieves dont use stealth in-combat, and why they would gladly toss it away in favour of blocking 3 attacks.

it is why YOU and other bad thiefs that have problems with stealthing in combat, go watch actual good thiefs, look at bluri,shorts, or even Puke vallun and try to find their " problems " with stealthing in combat, i honestly dont think I ever saw any good thief get punished for stealthing in combat, worst that can happen necro throwing mark in

Shatter mes was nice killing bad thieves ttying to stealth without break line of sight

[Yasai.3549]

If yu lose to a DH with Trapper runes, there is some serious problem there.There is very little a DH can do with Trapper Runes.

But Trapper Runes on a Druid however......

[Axl.8924]

I disagree with deleting amulets runes and sigils.