Tao.5096 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Burn condition became quite a weak condition in the entire table.It comes from very limited sources, base duration is very short, very easy to cleanse before it'll tick.Damage should be increased at least by 50% if not more to make this condition bring any value to the game.Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeqkOneStylez.8047 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 lmao. When does your Netflix comedy special come out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aktium.9506 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 This is why we need the Thumbs Down function on the forums back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimstone Jack.3462 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Burn is fine. I even spec'd my core necro to apply burn with shroud 1. Low-tiers run like hell when you light them on fire, and I can just keep piling it on, along with other condis. shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonecap.4105 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 I actually think burn damage is fine on its own, it's the stacking potential of some builds that is not okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddbopkins.2630 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 No wayyyy. Burning has always been the strongest dps condition that I can remember and I'm sure there a chart out there that can explain and show that burning is actually the best damaging condition. Instead of just word vomiting that burning is bad OP how about you do some research on the wiki to prove your claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Agree with op to be honest. Burns are so weak now building builds around the condition renders them useless, I mean look at burn guards,burn weavers and condi revs, their condi dps is pitiful due to low dps burn tick. I'd actually say burn builds are almost as weak as the pitiful condi p/d thief build going around, takes forever to kill someone on the build cuz how weak the dps from the condis are.Here's hoping for a buff in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayga.3192 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Sarcasm is so funny :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floppy.4936 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 April fools was last month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugchriss.2046 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Base on the wiki formulas (assuming that the condition damage stats is 1):The winners are:1.Burning (by waaaaay too far)2.Using a skill while having confusion3.Poison (toe to toe with 4.)4.Moving when having torment5.Bleeding6.Static torment7.Weapon stowed confusionOfc the graph doesn' t take into account the number of skills per condition, nor the cd of those skills, nor the difficulty of landing those skills.@Tao.5096 said:It comes from very limited sources, base duration is very shortMaybe that's why its base damage is very high compared to other conditions? For me burning is the condition version of huge cast time/animation high impact power skill. You need to land it properly if you want any result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 @Eugchriss.2046 said:Ofc the graph doesn' t take into account the number of skills per condition, nor the cd of those skills, nor the difficulty of landing those skills.It also doesn't consider duration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 @"Eugchriss.2046" said:Base on the wiki formulas (assuming that the condition damage stats is 1):The winners are:1.Burning (by waaaaay too far)2.Using a skill while having confusion3.Poison (toe to toe with 4.)4.Moving when having torment5.Bleeding6.Static torment7.Weapon stowed confusionOfc the graph doesn' t take into account the number of skills per condition, nor the cd of those skills, nor the difficulty of landing those skills.@Tao.5096 said:It comes from very limited sources, base duration is very shortMaybe that's why its base damage is very high compared to other conditions? For me burning is the condition version of huge cast time/animation high impact power skill. You need to land it properly if you want any result.unlike all other conditions, confusion damage over time does not scale with condition damage, and remains static 10/s per stack. the graph would be more accurate if it assumed some realistic condition value like 1000 for wizard, 1200 for carrion etc.EDIT.example. at 1200 condi power ( and no other bonuses like vuln + condi dmg% etc )3s bleeding does 282 damage.3s confusion does 30 dot damage, assuming enemy uses one ability it will proc for 166.5, meaning 199.5 dmg.this is why realistically confusion doesnt kill people, other then some specific 5x skill activation death.edit 2, 1 stack of confusion for 3s deals less damage then 1 stack of bleeding for 3s if the confusion is triggered once, and SLIGHTLY more if triggered twice.edit 3 I was wrong gonna fix in a sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugchriss.2046 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 @Leonidrex.5649 said:@"Eugchriss.2046" said:Base on the wiki formulas (assuming that the condition damage stats is 1):The winners are:1.Burning (by waaaaay too far)2.Using a skill while having confusion3.Poison (toe to toe with 4.)4.Moving when having torment5.Bleeding6.Static torment7.Weapon stowed confusionOfc the graph doesn' t take into account the number of skills per condition, nor the cd of those skills, nor the difficulty of landing those skills.@Tao.5096 said:It comes from very limited sources, base duration is very shortMaybe that's why its base damage is very high compared to other conditions? For me burning is the condition version of huge cast time/animation high impact power skill. You need to land it properly if you want any result.unlike all other conditions, confusion damage over time does not scale with condition damage, and remains static 10/s per stack. That s why the x axis doesn t represent time but stack intensity. Now I realize that a tick is made of time + stack. I should have titled it damage per stacks tbh. It would have been more precised.It should be read as (for example) 25 stacks of burning with 1 condition damage stat deals 3.4k-ish in 1 sec where as 25 stack of confusion deals 250 in the same conditions (ha!).But yeah I get your point. The difference between confusion and the other conditions is proportional to your damage condition stats. Idk why confusion doesn t scale with stats tbh. The more condi stat you invest the more confusion become not worthy...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 @Eugchriss.2046 said:@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Eugchriss.2046 said:Base on the wiki formulas (assuming that the condition damage stats is 1):The winners are:1.Burning (by waaaaay too far)2.Using a skill while having confusion3.Poison (toe to toe with 4.)4.Moving when having torment5.Bleeding6.Static torment7.Weapon stowed confusionOfc the graph doesn' t take into account the number of skills per condition, nor the cd of those skills, nor the difficulty of landing those skills.@Tao.5096 said:It comes from very limited sources, base duration is very shortMaybe that's why its base damage is very high compared to other conditions? For me burning is the condition version of huge cast time/animation high impact power skill. You need to land it properly if you want any result.unlike all other conditions, confusion damage over time does not scale with condition damage, and remains static 10/s per stack.Idk why confusion doesn t scale with stats tbh. The more condi stat you invest the more confusion become not worthy......It's go give another indicator of your suffering from confusion. It has , in the past , scaled with condi damage for its ticks but they wanted to emphasize the punish for using skills and differentiate it from other conditions. It's also the only Condi that can damage you more than once per time interval. Confusion, along with burn , are considered burst conditions by Anet. It's why they have relatively short durations and confusions tends to come is sizable stacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 @Eugchriss.2046 said:@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Eugchriss.2046 said:Base on the wiki formulas (assuming that the condition damage stats is 1):The winners are:1.Burning (by waaaaay too far)2.Using a skill while having confusion3.Poison (toe to toe with 4.)4.Moving when having torment5.Bleeding6.Static torment7.Weapon stowed confusionOfc the graph doesn' t take into account the number of skills per condition, nor the cd of those skills, nor the difficulty of landing those skills.@Tao.5096 said:It comes from very limited sources, base duration is very shortMaybe that's why its base damage is very high compared to other conditions? For me burning is the condition version of huge cast time/animation high impact power skill. You need to land it properly if you want any result.unlike all other conditions, confusion damage over time does not scale with condition damage, and remains static 10/s per stack. That s why the x axis doesn t represent time but stack intensity. Now I realize that a tick is made of time + stack. I should have titled it damage per stacks tbh. It would have been more precised.It should be read as (for example) 25 stacks of burning with 1 condition damage stat deals 3.4k-ish in 1 sec where as 25 stack of confusion deals 250 in the same conditions (ha!).But yeah I get your point. The difference between confusion and the other conditions is proportional to your damage condition stats. Idk why confusion doesn t scale with stats tbh. The more condi stat you invest the more confusion become not worthy......February 06, 2018Heavily reweighted damage from this condition's base damage-over-time component to the damage-on-skill-use component.The condition-damage contribution has been removed from the damage-over-time component and redistributed into the damage-on-skill-use component.This condition remains split between PvE and PvP/WvWIt was changed way before my time so some old firends might share why ;pits just glaring since at 1 condi power bleeding does 22/s and confusion 10/s, thats slightly under 50% dmg, still respectable but the moment you get 1200 condi power bleed does 94/s while confusion remains at 10/s, slightly over 10% dmg. and when it comes to burning it will deal 317/s while confusion remains at 10/s.PS burning has rather high base dmg, meaning that even without condi power it still can deal noticable damage, going full power some skills still do over 1k burning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 @Leonidrex.5649 said:@Eugchriss.2046 said:@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Eugchriss.2046 said:Base on the wiki formulas (assuming that the condition damage stats is 1):The winners are:1.Burning (by waaaaay too far)2.Using a skill while having confusion3.Poison (toe to toe with 4.)4.Moving when having torment5.Bleeding6.Static torment7.Weapon stowed confusionOfc the graph doesn' t take into account the number of skills per condition, nor the cd of those skills, nor the difficulty of landing those skills.@Tao.5096 said:It comes from very limited sources, base duration is very shortMaybe that's why its base damage is very high compared to other conditions? For me burning is the condition version of huge cast time/animation high impact power skill. You need to land it properly if you want any result.unlike all other conditions, confusion damage over time does not scale with condition damage, and remains static 10/s per stack. That s why the x axis doesn t represent time but stack intensity. Now I realize that a tick is made of time + stack. I should have titled it damage per stacks tbh. It would have been more precised.It should be read as (for example) 25 stacks of burning with 1 condition damage stat deals 3.4k-ish in 1 sec where as 25 stack of confusion deals 250 in the same conditions (ha!).But yeah I get your point. The difference between confusion and the other conditions is proportional to your damage condition stats. Idk why confusion doesn t scale with stats tbh. The more condi stat you invest the more confusion become not worthy......February 06, 2018Heavily reweighted damage from this condition's base damage-over-time component to the damage-on-skill-use component.The condition-damage contribution has been removed from the damage-over-time component and redistributed into the damage-on-skill-use component.This condition remains split between PvE and PvP/WvWIt was changed way before my time so some old firends might share why ;pits just glaring since at 1 condi power bleeding does 22/s and confusion 10/s, thats slightly under 50% dmg, still respectable but the moment you get 1200 condi power bleed does 94/s while confusion remains at 10/s, slightly over 10% dmg. and when it comes to burning it will deal 317/s while confusion remains at 10/s.PS burning has rather high base dmg, meaning that even without condi power it still can deal noticable damage, going full power some skills still do over 1k burning.Alright so confusion is a funny story. Originally confusion had no passive over-time damage effect at all. It was purely on skill use. They changed that with the specialisation patch. As for why they changed it back, I guess they wanted to get back its old flavour? It kinda felt like torment 2.0, so they wanted to distinguish it, or something along the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exedore.6320 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 @Leonidrex.5649 said:@Eugchriss.2046 said:But yeah I get your point. The difference between confusion and the other conditions is proportional to your damage condition stats. Idk why confusion doesn t scale with stats tbh. The more condi stat you invest the more confusion become not worthy......February 06, 2018Heavily reweighted damage from this condition's base damage-over-time component to the damage-on-skill-use component.The condition-damage contribution has been removed from the damage-over-time component and redistributed into the damage-on-skill-use component.This condition remains split between PvE and PvP/WvWConfusion originally only did damage on ability use, and mesmers were the main users of the condition. The problem was that PvE mobs don't use abilities very often, so often confusion in PvE did no damage. In order to make it more PvE friendly, ANet changed confusion to have a sizable damage over time component. However, this caused problems in PvP where confusion had limited counter-play; either stop using abilities and die to the DoT or use abilities and die to the triggered damage. Compare that to bleed where you can still lay on the aggression and kill your opponent. As a result, ANet moved confusion in PvP to deal damage on ability use, but kept a small DoT component so that it behaves the same way as in PvP for procs and similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 I agree. Burning hardly does damage, the only thing destroyed by burning lately was the visibility of the irony this thread was laced with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 @Bazsi.2734 said:I agree. Burning hardly does damage, the only thing destroyed by burning lately was the visibility of the irony this thread was laced with.Yes and this is what we should be focused on nerfing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crepuscular.9047 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 @"Eugchriss.2046" said:Base on the wiki formulas (assuming that the condition damage stats is 1):The winners are:1.Burning (by waaaaay too far)2.Using a skill while having confusion3.Poison (toe to toe with 4.)4.Moving when having torment5.Bleeding6.Static torment7.Weapon stowed confusionOfc the graph doesn' t take into account the number of skills per condition, nor the cd of those skills, nor the difficulty of landing those skills.@Tao.5096 said:It comes from very limited sources, base duration is very shortMaybe that's why its base damage is very high compared to other conditions? For me burning is the condition version of huge cast time/animation high impact power skill. You need to land it properly if you want any result.by that matrix, burn should be nerfed down to 1/3 of its strength, torment too weak, should be buffed to 2x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulvar.1239 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 @crepuscular.9047 said:@"Eugchriss.2046" said:Base on the wiki formulas (assuming that the condition damage stats is 1):The winners are:1.Burning (by waaaaay too far)2.Using a skill while having confusion3.Poison (toe to toe with 4.)4.Moving when having torment5.Bleeding6.Static torment7.Weapon stowed confusionOfc the graph doesn' t take into account the number of skills per condition, nor the cd of those skills, nor the difficulty of landing those skills.@Tao.5096 said:It comes from very limited sources, base duration is very shortMaybe that's why its base damage is very high compared to other conditions? For me burning is the condition version of huge cast time/animation high impact power skill. You need to land it properly if you want any result.by that matrix, burn should be nerfed down to 1/3 of its strength, torment too weak, should be buffed to 2xThe graph is bad.To compare each condition, an analysis should consider :Average damageAverage durationAverage stackEase of application (counter cleanse)Spike of intensity (counter cleanse) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anduriell.6280 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 @Kulvar.1239 said:@crepuscular.9047 said:@"Eugchriss.2046" said:Base on the wiki formulas (assuming that the condition damage stats is 1):The winners are:1.Burning (by waaaaay too far)2.Using a skill while having confusion3.Poison (toe to toe with 4.)4.Moving when having torment5.Bleeding6.Static torment7.Weapon stowed confusionOfc the graph doesn' t take into account the number of skills per condition, nor the cd of those skills, nor the difficulty of landing those skills.@Tao.5096 said:It comes from very limited sources, base duration is very shortMaybe that's why its base damage is very high compared to other conditions? For me burning is the condition version of huge cast time/animation high impact power skill. You need to land it properly if you want any result.by that matrix, burn should be nerfed down to 1/3 of its strength, torment too weak, should be buffed to 2xThe graph is bad.To compare each condition, an analysis should consider :Average damageAverage durationAverage stackEase of application (counter cleanse)Spike of intensity (counter cleanse)two words: Burn guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulvar.1239 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 @anduriell.6280 said:@Kulvar.1239 said:@crepuscular.9047 said:@"Eugchriss.2046" said:Base on the wiki formulas (assuming that the condition damage stats is 1):The winners are:1.Burning (by waaaaay too far)2.Using a skill while having confusion3.Poison (toe to toe with 4.)4.Moving when having torment5.Bleeding6.Static torment7.Weapon stowed confusionOfc the graph doesn' t take into account the number of skills per condition, nor the cd of those skills, nor the difficulty of landing those skills.@Tao.5096 said:It comes from very limited sources, base duration is very shortMaybe that's why its base damage is very high compared to other conditions? For me burning is the condition version of huge cast time/animation high impact power skill. You need to land it properly if you want any result.by that matrix, burn should be nerfed down to 1/3 of its strength, torment too weak, should be buffed to 2xThe graph is bad.To compare each condition, an analysis should consider :Average damageAverage durationAverage stackEase of application (counter cleanse)Spike of intensity (counter cleanse)two words: Burn guard. Burn guard is a thing yes. But it's a combination of ease of application and spike of intensity rather than average damage or average duration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted May 13, 2020 Share Posted May 13, 2020 @Tao.5096 said:Burn condition became quite a weak condition in the entire table.It comes from very limited sources, base duration is very short, very easy to cleanse before it'll tick.Damage should be increased at least by 50% if not more to make this condition bring any value to the game.ThanksIf you are a scourge, that does actually make sense.If you are a guardian... not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXxNikiGoesWildxXx.3678 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Nerf burning please :+1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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