About the people who won't get free Curious Creatures Mount Select License after the rollback

[yann.1946]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@yann.1946 said:it matters because the intent was a fair one.The intent might have been a fair one. What has been done to implement it

wasn't

. In the end, actions speak louder than words.

No implementation would have been fair though. But as i said earlier what is or is not fair isn't relevant at all. (even though many people seem under the impression that it is. )

The only thing what matters is how it is perceived.

On a sidenote: i feel a lot of people don't realize that their where lots of players who didn't know that the servers would be roll backed. The majority of people don't spend time on reddit/ the forums for example. And they might have played a decent amount before the servers got taken ofline.

And on another sidenote: why are people talking like the people who got into trouble because of the tp won't get compensation? And the problems of non/double sending of compensation won't get resolved?

@Tiilimon.6094 said:If you're eligible for the license by getting your monday progress wiped after the weekend restoration and didn't get it, just contact customer support.They didn't leave you out of the mailing list out of malice, and will most likely sort it out, but right now it might take time because there's like a million guys writing complaints for not being eligible for the compensation.Sorry, but it does not work like that. Losing anything due to rollback does

not

make you eligible for obtaining mount licence. Only logging in during a specific time (

regardless

of whether you lost anything or not) does.

The stated intent does

not

match the actions that were actually taken.

Well it does match it. Some things just got overlooked.

[Tiilimon.6094]

@Astralporing.1957 said:Yes, many of us did indeed see into the future and were telling people that 100% the game will be rollbacked, and everyone playing at the moment will lose progress. If you look closer, you might even see some posts outlining what's going to happen with TP transactions if only EU gets rollbacked. Some of those posts were even mine.

Turns out, all those forecasts did happen exactly as predicted.

It doesn't require magical powers, you know. It's called being IT savvy and knowing how databases work.

But you see, there was no official information available at all before the realms were taken offline.Third party information can always be flawed, as I also read a lot of predictions on reddit and these boards that did not happen.What if anet would have been unable to restore the weekend progress?

[Tiilimon.6094]

@"Hyrai.8720" said:Exactly, you just quoted their statement like a parrot without looking at whats happening "behind the curtains".I dont care what their statement says if theyre clearly acting in a different way.

If someone who did indeed play during the time that has now been wiped from existence, and did not receive the compensation license, they should contact customer support and wait patiently.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by whats happening "behind the curtains"?For me personally, everything about this subject seems to be pretty clear.

[Headhunter.4796]

@"Gopaka.7839" said:I just wanted to tell my opinion about the free Licence that I won't get because of me wanting to help and help myself not losing my account and for this others get free stuff for entering the game for retrieving his/her daily login reward and then exit the game.You forgot to tell your opinion, what is it?

[Luthan.5236]

@"yann.1946" said:On a sidenote: i feel a lot of people don't realize that their where lots of players who didn't know that the servers would be roll backed. The majority of people don't spend time on reddit/ the forums for example. And they might have played a decent amount before the servers got taken ofline.

And on another sidenote: why are people talking like the people who got into trouble because of the tp won't get compensation? And the problems of non/double sending of compensation won't get resolved?

I get the feeling that this is the biggest problem in our (I mean amongst us players here in the thread) communication. My guess is that you and Randulf (and some others) think that most players that got the compensation are the ones that lost a lot of progress that won't be restored otherwise.

Then of course it would make sense to say "okay just few people got the compensation when they actually should not have - giving it now to everyone would increase the problem". I would agree with that If I also assumed that most people that got the compensation hat a big progress loss that can't be restored otherwise.

I though think that maybe out of 1000 people 50 or 100 got a big loss that can't be restored. 950 or 900 will have lost almost nothing. I don't consider a login reward or a daily a big progress loss. Also precurser if restored by support is not a loss. More like the people that lost achievements and story progress and need to play that again.

Why do I assume that not many people lost lots of progress when not many look at twitter and reddit (I agree on that): There is LA and guilds. People might read about it in LA. Might notice in their inventory. Might notice from other progress loss. (There were lots of people that played at the weekend before ... maybe big progress loss hinting at the problems at monday - making you ask for others that might know about the rollback.)

Would have isolated people (no guild, not visiting LA or or just being there for a short amount of time) that also don't notice other changes in inventory, story progress and achievement progress to make a lot of progress that can't be restored by support.

So ... me saying "give the skin to everyone" is because I assume that only a few that got it were the people that ArenaNet intendd to compensate. Then of course giving it to everyone would decrrease the problem. (Then the people that lost the progres might feel they got less than they needed - which would be a small amount of people. Now lots of people feel they have been wronged while only a small amount of peoply go the compensation correctly and for most others it was just a "reward".)

Of course that are only assumptions. We don't know how many people played and how many lost progress. (Maybe even ArenaNet does not know until they all make tickets.)

I don't look at "good intention" for the final result. "Good intention" means they should get some leeway to correct a decision which was wrong but made with a good intention. (As compared to bad decisions with bad intentions.) But "good intention" just doesn't mean I can be okay if the final result is bad and they don't make attempts to improve it.

---

For the TP stuff and the lost gold: It wasn't mentioned in the announcements. Could have been that they ignored it. (And don't want to compensate or restore here.) Or could be just that they didn't say anything about it because of their communication policy. (Which is bad.) For now we only can assume they don't want to restore it ... if there are already people that hat posted about tickets getting closed/refused because of it. (Ashantara posted and he/she seems like valuable member of the community playing lots of GW since GW1 without a break and I don't think he/she lied or made stuff up.)

[yann.1946]

@Luthan.5236 said:

@"yann.1946" said:On a sidenote: i feel a lot of people don't realize that their where lots of players who didn't know that the servers would be roll backed. The majority of people don't spend time on reddit/ the forums for example. And they might have played a decent amount before the servers got taken ofline.

And on another sidenote: why are people talking like the people who got into trouble because of the tp won't get compensation? And the problems of non/double sending of compensation won't get resolved?

I get the feeling that this is the biggest problem in our (I mean amongst us players here in the thread) communication. My guess is that you and Randulf (and some others) think that most players that got the compensation are the ones that lost a lot of progress that won't be restored otherwise.

Then of course it would make sense to say "okay just few people got the compensation when they actually should not have - giving it now to everyone would increase the problem". I would agree with that If I also assumed that most people that got the compensation hat a big progress loss that can't be restored otherwise.

I though think that maybe out of 1000 people 50 or 100 got a big loss that can't be restored. 950 or 900 will have lost almost nothing. I don't consider a login reward or a daily a big progress loss. Also precurser if restored by support is not a loss. More like the people that lost achievements and story progress and need to play that again.

Why do I assume that not many people lost lots of progress when not many look at twitter and reddit (I agree on that): There is LA and guilds. People might read about it in LA. Might notice in their inventory. Might notice from other progress loss. (There were lots of people that played at the weekend before ... maybe big progress loss hinting at the problems at monday - making you ask for others that might know about the rollback.)

Would have isolated people (no guild, not visiting LA or or just being there for a short amount of time) that also don't notice other changes in inventory, story progress and achievement progress to make a lot of progress that can't be restored by support.

So ... me saying "give the skin to everyone" is because I assume that only a few that got it were the people that ArenaNet intendd to compensate. Then of course giving it to everyone would decrease the problem. (Then the people that lost the progres might feel they got less than they needed - which would be a small amount of people. Now lots of people feel they have been wronged while only a small amount of peoply go the compensation correctly and for most others it was just a "reward".)

Of course that are only assumptions. We don't know how many people played and how many lost progress. (Maybe even ArenaNet does not know until they all make tickets.)

I don't look at "good intention" for the final result. "Good intention" means they should get some leeway to correct a decision which was wrong but made with a good intention. (As compared to bad decisions with bad intentions.) But "good intention" just doesn't mean I can be okay if the final result is bad and they don't make attempts to improve it.

To me it seems that even if you get informed of the serverisuues by guildmembers you will have playred for some time already. On top of the fact that i think the majority of players are more solo oriented non guild player.

But to me the amount of progress someone lost is almost irrelevant (as long as that progress is not 0). Now you could argue about whether the compensation was to much. But to me the most important part is that it would be unfair to give everyone the same compensation.

---

For the TP stuff and the lost gold: It wasn't mentioned in the announcements. Could have been that they ignored it. (And don't want to compensate or restore here.) Or could be just that they didn't say anything about it because of their communication policy. (Which is bad.) For now we only can assume they don't want to restore it ... if there are already people that hat posted about tickets getting closed/refused because of it. (Ashantara posted and he/she seems like valuable member of the community playing lots of GW since GW1 without a break and I don't think he/she lied or made stuff up.)

Honestly i presumed these problems would get solved because of the notion that you could send support tickets (as such i stand corrected because apparently it doesn't happen)

[Kodama.6453]

@"Luthan.5236" said:

The thing is, the progress loss doesn't have to be big?

Let's say that I did 5 achievements which are easily completed on that day. Isn't really much, but it is ingame progress that I lost and that I have to repeat to get it again. This progress actually can get restored, but the thing is that it is not worth it to restore for Anet.Since everyone is debating what is fair here, I think it is fair that I can demand to get these achievements unlocked by Anet again, since the rollback took away my progress.

Now imagine that every single player who did some minor achievements on that day comes to Anet and wants to get their own individual list of small achievements unlocked. Sounds like a fun task, right? The compensation is basically also to make up for that. It basically says "we are not going to restore every single little bit of progress you did like these small achievements, this thing here is making up for the hustle that you have to repeat that stuff".

I personally think that this compensation wasn't really needed in the first place, but well. Just my guess what might have been the thought process here.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"yann.1946" said:And on another sidenote: why are people talking like the people who got into trouble because of the tp won't get compensation? And the problems of non/double sending of compensation won't get resolved?Because they won't. The support made it very clear that the license is only for those that logged in and having lost anything to the rollback in itself due to TP problems in that time does not qualify you for it if you haven't been logged in. And as for double sending, we already know that Anet cannot easily remove unlocks from accounts, so if someone used it, they can't really do much (and it wouldn;t be exactly fault of the person that received it, so they can't use any of the heavier methods either). It's not like this was the first time something like that happened, you know.

Sorry, but it does not work like that. Losing anything due to rollback does

not

make you eligible for obtaining mount licence. Only logging in during a specific time (

regardless

of whether you lost anything or not) does.

The stated intent does

not

match the actions that were actually taken.

Well it does match it. Some things just got overlooked.The thing that got overlooked was exactly that their implementation did

not

in fact fulfill their stated intention. It was completely unrelated to it.

They stated that license was compensation for lost progress, and yet it was sent to people that did not lose anything, while at the same time there are people that did lose something that won't obtain it. Not to mention their original intention as stated in their first post was to reward anyone whose progress was impacted (which should have included also anyone that decided to withhold from playing due to the game issues). Only later, after that's been pointed out, they changed it into "progress lost". Which also happened to not match what was really happening.

You'd have to engage in some heavy semantics and reality manipulations to be able to claim that their stated intentions matched their actions.

Notice, i do not claim that the difference is a result of Anet's ill will or anything like that. I truly believe they've made a honest mistake. But for that to remain just a honest mistake, they must be willing to correct it - and so far i don't see any sign they are willing to do so.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Tiilimon.6094 said:But you see, there was no official information available at all before the realms were taken offline.Third party information can always be flawed, as I also read a lot of predictions on reddit and these boards that did not happen.Indeed, some people were both not IT savvy, and expected the situation to magically turn out differently than in all the previous cases this happened (there were at least two others i am aware of). It didn't make all the more rational people wrong - especially since, as it turned out, they were 100% right.What if anet would have been unable to restore the weekend progress?There would have been a rollback to the last stable database point anyway. We've had enough information long before Anet even said anything to realize, that the situation then was not stable and predict that solving it would necessitate some form of database restoration (which would clear any progress made between the restoration point and the moment Anet acted). The situation was bad enough that leaving the servers as they were simply wasn't an option.

[Luthan.5236]

@Kodama.6453 : Yes, that is correct. You can demand to get that progress restored. And it seems in case of precursor drops they can easily do that. But for stuff like achievements it probably is not that easy. So they decided to give the compensation.

The thing is ... I (and probably others as well) don't agree with that @yann.1946 says (while there are as well people that agree with him - everony has different opinions):

The amount of progress is relevant exactly because the compensation is pretty high. If they gave only an additional bonfire for the progress loss ... it would not matter that much. People that did not login wouldn't see those others that logged in (but lost no progress cause they logged out immediately) as such a big deal. Would be easier to say "those that lost progress got compensation while some others did get it as well even though they lost no or almost no progress".

With that compensation that high/expensive and them also restoring stuff like lost precursors ... it only leaves the people lost achievements as the intended "target audience" for that high compensation. (ArenaNet can't have intended to give pretty expensive compensation for only small progress losses or for precursors that already get restored by support. Though they took into account that people with such small losses would get it as well - because it was impossible to manually assess progress without lots of work which would have meant expensive cost of labor of support staff.)

Here is where I start with my reasoning ... if out of 1000 only 50 had "big progress loss that won't be restored by support otherwise" it seems like a big deal to people that did not log in and did not get the compensation/reward. They think "oh wow they want to compensate 50 but actually most of people that got it weren't even the target and just got targeted because they couldn't filter out the 50 ... they could have given it to me as well then". (Giving it to everyone and only the 50 would complain. that others got it as well. Giving it to the 1000 but not the ones that didn't log in would mean more complainers. More "injustice." cause they got treated different than the 950 that logged in and got the reward when they weren't the actual targets intended to get it.)

If now 950 people acutaly had "big progress" and only 50 lost nothing or almost nothing ... the thing looks totally different. You will still have the lots of people that did not log in ... but only 50 that were "lucky" to get the reward when they actually did not deserve it. Feels more like a minor thing. Easier to accept that ArenaNet could not have done it differently (cause filtering out the 50 would have mean lots of manual work).

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@Tiilimon.6094 said:Hyrai, if you wish to bend the statements made by anet, sure.I'm just quoting the news post.What do you find more important, generally, what people say or what people do?

[Tiilimon.6094]

People on reddit also predicted the end of the game as we know it, servers being on fire, spilled coffee and so on.

There were also multiple posts stating that anet wouldn't compensate anything at all for anyone, which turned out to be false as well.

Some players also began playing the game last monday morning, they wouldn't have any idea that this has happened multiple times in the past and played normally.I've been playing for years and even I didn't know that this has happened earlier.

[Tiilimon.6094]

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Tiilimon.6094 said:Hyrai, if you wish to bend the statements made by anet, sure.I'm just quoting the news post.What do you find more important, generally, what people

say

or what people

do

?

Whaddya mean? They've done just what they stated and reimbursed people who lost game progress last monday with the license, and ask people who lost assets to contact CS.

[Craine.8162]

@Tiilimon.6094 said:

They've done just what they stated (...)

They didnt. Its been elaborated several times by now. If you fail to see that, there's no point in arguing.

[Cyndercat.7615]

@Tiilimon.6094 said:The developers don't view your lost gold as progress, they view it as losing assets. Losing progress for them means having your actual playtime wiped from existence.They also stated what you should do in such a situation, have you contacted support yet?

Did you see into the future on monday or what? How did you know what would happen and what was pointless or not?

The exotics I lost didnt just magically appear in my inventory you know. I spent time farming them on sunday. Time which is now 100% wasted since everything I earned during that playtime has been wiped. However because my time spent was on sunday, and not monday, I get nothing. I played to earn gold to progress my legendary. That progress is now gone.

I will be contacting support asking why I dont get a mount. But Im not stupid enough to think they are going to restore 4g worth of drops to me when others have lost hundreds or thousands and got nothing.

I think using even the slightest bit on common sense would have told anyone that playing on monday would have resulted in issues. It doesnt take 300IQ to realize playing on an alternate timeline after a rollback is risky at the very least.

I guess I am the stupid one though as im now out either 12euros or 400g for trying to use logic.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@Tiilimon.6094 said:

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Tiilimon.6094 said:Hyrai, if you wish to bend the statements made by anet, sure.I'm just quoting the news post.What do you find more important, generally, what people

say

or what people

do

?

Whaddya mean? They've done just what they stated and reimbursed people who lost game progress last monday with the license, and ask people who lost assets to contact CS.What I meant was, what do you find more important, generally, what people say or what people do?

[Tiilimon.6094]

Some people just logged into the game normally last monday, created a new character and played till the servers were taken down.If they played inside personal story instances, there was 0 information in the came client that something was wrong.

It has nothing to do with these players IQ.

Bummer that your stuff was lost, but there's a support page with instructions about what you should do in this case.https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001969608-Recovering-Missing-or-Lost-Items

[Tiilimon.6094]

@Hyrai.8720 said:

@Tiilimon.6094 said:

They've done just what they stated (...)

They didnt. Its been elaborated several times by now. If you fail to see that, there's no point in arguing.

If you were supposed to get it, but didn't, then you should just contact support and wait for them to resolve the situation?

I know that a lot of people who lost progress last monday did actually get it, including me, so they definitely have sent em to people who fit their criteria.

[AzureSky.3175]

@Tiilimon.6094 said:its not a gift tho xD

even Anet calls it a gift though:

To those who lost progress we gifted the mount select license as a small way to help make that loss up to them.

or how do you gift something that's not... a gift?!

@Tiilimon.6094 said:The developers don't view your lost gold as progress, they view it as losing assets.They also stated what you should do in such a situation, have you contacted support yet?

They never said that either! Anet asked people to contact support in case they got a rare drop on monday, not if they "LoSt aSsEtS"

if you obtained a rare and valuable item during the affected period, such as a legendary precursor, please contact Customer Support

and as it stands right now, I have yet to see a single report about TP-gold being restored. Quite the opposite, see this thread:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/105716/players-never-received-gold-from-items-that-sold-during-the-eu-server-rollback-shutdown

[Craine.8162]

edit/changed my mind. no point in arguing anymore.

[Cyndercat.7615]

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:Some people just logged into the game normally last monday, created a new character and played till the servers were taken down.If they played inside personal story instances, there was 0 information in the came client that something was wrong.

It has nothing to do with these players IQ.

Bummer that your stuff was lost, but there's a support page with instructions about what you should do in this case.https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001969608-Recovering-Missing-or-Lost-Items

I never said players who didnt realise there were issues were stupid. I said it doesnt take intelligence for the people who DID know about the rollback to realize that if they played on monday, there was a risk.

They have already closed tickets on people who request TP gold back and made it clear they arent going to restore gold to players. Only major item drops like precursors or infusions. I am not getting my 4-5g back. It IS a bummer I lose items but get no compensation for it and thats why im pissed off.

Now 4-5g isnt game changing for me, I will not quit the game over it, but it does leave a massive bad taste in my mouth that Anet is so incompetent that they use totally arbitrary parameters to choose who gets compensated for lost progress and who doesnt. Meaning I who actually lost something get nothing, but others who only lost log in rewards get an entire mount skin. If they dont have the time/tech to figure out who lost stuff and who didnt, they should have given everyone the same compensation.

[Tiilimon.6094]

It's a compensation gift it seems, I stand corrected. That still means that it's reimbursement.

Asset means something that contains value, meaning things such as these rare drops you're talking about.

I'm quite sure the problems with missing gold will be resolved as well eventually, but they might have quite a lot of work to do so it might not happen very quickly.

[AzureSky.3175]

@Jayden Reese.9542 said:He thinks his opinion is more valuable then the 600 already while saying nothing new

nah <3just thought at least someone from anet has to read the thing before they merge it with the big thread lelbigbrain huegIQ

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Shadowmoon.7986" said:Sounds to me like NA should have also be shut down and rolled backed to prevent this insanity, and I am a NA player btw. This is the problem with having both economies intermixed, when one is rolled back and other other is not, it opens things up for duping and deletion. At that point, CS only need to worry about refunding people gems bought with real $ during the time period that gets erased.

:+1: That was my thought exactly even before they restored the account data, but I was reprimanded (by other EU players nonetheless ;) ) for suggesting this. "Why should the NA players suffer as well?", was the common reaction. And while a generally agree with that sentiment, in this case it would have been the only logical thing to do, because...

What happened is:

When the unintended rollback occurred, EU player accounts were set back to Friday's status, while the Trading Post remained unaffected. That means that the link between Trading Post items that had been put up for sale after Friday and their respective seller accounts was severed. In consequence, everything that sold between the unintended EU account rollbacks on Monday and the restoration of said accounts on Tuesday was no longer linked to a seller, hence no one received the gold from those transactions.

Some people lost huge amounts of gold that way that can in no way be compensated with a free mount license. People need to be refunded their gold from said transactions.

[Cyndercat.7615]

@"Tiilimon.6094" said:It's a compensation gift it seems, I stand corrected. That still means that it's reimbursement.

Asset means something that contains value, meaning things such as these rare drops you're talking about.

I'm quite sure the problems with missing gold will be resolved as well eventually, but they might have quite a lot of work to do so it might not happen very quickly

Support has literally told people they arent getting their gold back. Even with timestamped screenshots, support has denied them.https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/105716/players-never-received-gold-from-items-that-sold-during-the-eu-server-rollback-shutdown#latest

They are only restoring precursors or infusions or other equally rare drops. - "If you obtained a rare and valuable item during the affected period […] please contact Customer Support for help.”

So far all their communication suggests they have no intention at all of restoring gold missing due to server issues, unless that gold was a result of a precursor or other rare item sale.

So I dont know why you think they are going to restore my 4g or anyone else who has lost a smaller amount.

Hypothetically, If they dont restore this lost gold. Do you still think I and others in my situation, dont deserve the mount compensation?