Make mesmer viable.

[dronte.3416]

Hello everyone, returning player here.

I used to play Power mirage a lot in pretty high tiers (EU) and before the Chaotic Interruption hype, I was rolling a fun core lockdown mesmer.

We can all see that in 3v3, ranked, AT-s and especially MOTA, mesmers (with all traits) are literally non-existent. It is because a mesmer is currently a handicap for the team and an extremely easy target.

In very short, there are 2 great issues with mirage and mesmer:

• Smiter's booning Mirage Cloak was a cheap and terrible decision by Anet. Instead of properly trying to balance condi mirage they just deleted mirage altogether from pvp. Removing 50% endurance in a baseline trait? If anyone has ever played PvP, especially is the current meta, this makes it mirage utterly useless unless you completely avoid close-mid range. If there is a thief, power rev in the enemy team, you might as well just quit right away.

• Solution: revert Mirage Cloak change. If condi is oppressive, take a look at the skills and traits that make it a problem (hint hint: Infinite Horizon). This would make Mirage viable at least again, both condi and maybe power.

• Removal of Chaotic Interruption and not updating underlying traits. Chaotic Interruption again was oppressive in Condi Mirage builds, I was sad to see it go because it enabled high skilled core condi mesmer play (MoD + CI), but I agree in combination with Mirage it was ridiculously strong (IH btw...).There are several beautiful synergies with interrupts on most trait lines, but there is no skill-based interrupt build that enables it. Spamming mirage sw1 under mirage cloak is not skill-based (also, it has been nerfed :P ).

• Solution: enable interrupt-based gameplay on mesmer again. One idea: buff Mantra of Distraction. Lower casting time and recharge. But there are sooo many ways of fixing this.

And of course there are many other problems, but I see these two the most painful.Another example: stun-based traits. There are several of them, but they are just hanging in the air since Mantra of Distraction nerf, there is no proper stun application on mesmer any more. There is absolutely no synergy any more, as these are mostly power-based traits. How can you stun as a Mesmer? You can take a signet with a cast time of like 1 second, and pistol5, which is strong but is a condi weapon and you lose out on the remaining utility on power mirage (torch). Lots of other traits are just completely garbage now but this is not unique to mesmer.

Don't even get me started on Chrono :D

TL;DR: 1. revert Mirage Cloak change, take a look at IH, see how it goes. 2. After countless nerfs to all mesmer traitlines, take a look at trait synergies again.

Your input is much appreciated unless it's 'mesmer was OP, deserved to be erased'. I know people love to hate on mesmers, but in a normal game all classes should have AT LEAST 1 viable build in PvP.

[Koen.1327]

condi mirage is still viable imo, don't notice so much difference in ranked now just different playstylewould love to get 50 endurance back, but mirage itself needs a bigger overhaulchrono is much worse and needs faster fix, chrono worst spec in the game not even close

[pacwax.3402]

The one dodge change for mirage is fine. Your mirage cloak does so much that having mirage with 2 dodges would be absolute cancer and almost unkillable in the hands of a good player. You also have so many other ways to avoid damage on mesmer, that even now it's really hard to kill.It's still viable in high tier ranked and daily ATs and the main reason it's not played at the highest competitive level is because it gets hardcountered by d/p thieves. As for 3v3s the only viable builds there were all teamfight/support and mesmer is played as a roamer/sidenoder.I am a mesmer main btw so if anything i am biased towards buffing mesmer.

[Virdo.1540]

Mesmer is perfectly fine.except... maybe.... chrono

[Tayga.3192]

@Virdo.1540 said:Mesmer is perfectly fine.

but then why it isn't played in ranked/wasn't played in tournaments?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

the community has decided that mesmer shouldn't be viable. how dare you?

[Virdo.1540]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:Mesmer is perfectly fine.

but then why it isn't played in ranked/wasn't played in tournaments?

Because there is always something better at specific circumstances. mesmer is fine, just not the best.If theres a class that requires 0 skill to play but is still good (like core necro in 2vs2), then people will probably not choose a class to do alot to be good.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:Mesmer is perfectly fine.

but then why it isn't played in ranked/wasn't played in tournaments?

Because there is always something better at specific circumstances. mesmer is fine, just not the best.If theres a class that requires 0 skill to play but is still good (like core necro in 2vs2), then people will probably not choose a class to do alot to be good.

Doesnt make much sense in high tier play though, difficulty is not much of a factor for them. Mesmer was still notably absent. I do think Mesmer isnt as bad as Warrior is, but Mesmer, even condi mirage, is pretty bad right now. Though I dont know what buff they should get.

[Tayga.3192]

@"Virdo.1540" said:Because there is always something better at specific circumstances. mesmer is fine, just not the best.

"Scepter condi core elementalist is fine but there is just something better than it."or"Bunker core guardian is fine but there is just something better than it."

Balance is RELATIVE. You can't say "x is fine" with no comparisons. If it's bad in comparison it means it's bad.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

I am ok with not having mesmer spam clone clutter in every to evey other game honestly. Im ok with it not being played. I dont care what the skills do when u have a class as visually cluttery as meamer making 2-6 clones endlessly is a terrible class design imo.I want to fight players not an army of ai clones all the time.

[Tayga.3192]

@"Eddbopkins.2630" said:meamer making 2-6 clones endlesslyIt's capped at 3 clones, phantasms are like ghostsI don't know about "endless" as mesmers don't run dueling anymore

I want to fight players not an army of ai clones all the time.But you fight the player, clones are like necro life force or warrior adrenaline.

[Virdo.1540]

@Tayga.3192 said:

@"Virdo.1540" said:Because there is always something better at specific circumstances. mesmer is fine, just not the best.

"Scepter condi core elementalist is fine but there is just something better than it."or"Bunker core guardian is fine but there is just something better than it."

Balance is RELATIVE. You can't say "x is fine" with no comparisons. If it's bad in comparison it means it's bad.

Game X is bad in comparison with Game Y.Is game X bad cuz of that? No.

same with classes. They are bad if they are unplayable. Are any classes unplayable? No.What u r saying is if one class is a bit strong, every other class is complete shiet

[Daishi.6027]

@"pacwax.3402" said:The one dodge change for mirage is fine. Your mirage cloak does so much that having mirage with 2 dodges would be absolute cancer and almost unkillable in the hands of a good player. You also have so many other ways to avoid damage on mesmer, that even now it's really hard to kill.

Mirage mirrors are traited to be up to (not even guaranteed) 3 created on a base line 50 second cooldown, and 1 on heal at a 25 second cooldown. No other methods of making them are viable, and both of which require you to walk over to them (or for oasis can stay in that spot after a duration), and distortion is already the cooldown button you press to stave off damage, ultimately homogenizing everything together. On top of being massively inconvenient since with Desert Distortion these mirrors are created where your clones are, which frankly; your opponent has FAR more control over than you do as the mesmer. (Not to mention being completely antithetical to the entire point of mirage which is to deceive. Yet we have these giant shiny triangles saying "If I want to avoid getting hurt I have to go HERE". )

Were "unkillable" objectively true, where does that leave the disparity between classes that get more On Demand evasion? Ranger gets a passive 25% endurance increase on top of vigor, on top of many weapon skills and utitlites with built in evades, long duration blocks, or some other form of damage mitigation. Mirage may mitigate for a good 7 seconds on one very long cooldown and at the cost of all their resources, assuming they time mirror usage. But for any extended fight that doesn't simply last 30 seconds, even with Signet of Illusions; Ranger has more evades. If Mirage would be "unkillable" with normal dodge (which it isn't), why is the same not true for rangers?Also since we're comparing: Ranger gets 3 seconds of stealth, every 12 seconds, On a primary ranged damage weapon with a far more persistent and consistent pet than phantasms (which often reveal you when cast). Which is flat out better than the 30ish second cooldowns demanded on mesmer.

Thief evades with EVEN MORE on demand access, and has even more access to stealth. Back around season 9-10ish BEFORE mirage was heavily nerfed there were tests done to see who gets better evasion, and theif won out. Mirage has become significantly worse in terms of survivability since then.(Side note: This is also on top of better on demand blind coverage.)

Were the premise "unkillable" true, this would also be true for them. Saying only "mirage is fine" in this way is a double standard. Plus these two classes aren't even the only ones but they are a significant display.

B4 others argue "But mesmer has illusions and can trick ppl!": That is not a real trade off compared to on demand evasion, or solid on demand stealth.No one good falls for illusions to any reasonable degree that matters, for the most part people KNOW who the mesmer is, it's just a matter of targeting (even more so when buffs like signet, which is almost mandatory now; give you away.) On top of which:-AI pathing is exploitable by ANY player.-Many classes (ironically other than mesmer) have strong AoE to simply cleave down illusions.-Those that do not have the luxury of strong AoE, either have large amounts of stealth or an over abundance of defense and sustain.(see above.)-Shatters outside the one GS combo have a large tell, so long as you don't get surrounded by clones- which only bad players do.(because again the pathing is easy to exploit)-Also targeting isn't even that hard, it's not like tab targeting is randomly cycling through, you have a generally good amount of control over what you select by just using that sweet spot in the center of your screen. (this has always functioned even without action camera.)-And not to bring up the AoE point again, but a vast majority of skills in this game cleave; and mirage is to squishy to just take the hit standing among your illusion.

It's still viable in high tier ranked and daily ATs and the main reason it's not played at the highest competitive level is because it gets hardcountered by d/p thieves. As for 3v3s the only viable builds there were all teamfight/support and mesmer is played as a roamer/sidenoder.

Even if this were true "Being good" and overcoming a handicap, doesn't justify anything. There are a myriad of double standards and they need to stop.A class/play-style shouldn't have to put in twice the effort for half the reward.

Also where does this leave power mirage, which is much worse than condi mirage? When condi over performed all that needed to be addressed was the application methods, and every change made instead to reign it in has only served to make it clunky and unwieldy, and unfairly nerfed power as it siphoned off more and more of its survivability tools, while other classes maintained theirs.

[mortrialus.3062]

If you made a poll "should Mesmer, Chronomancer and Mirage get buffed" buffing Mesmer would lose 80-20.

[Shiyo.3578]

First off, Plasma(thief steal on mesmer) needs to be heavily nerfed.Second, thief needs to not hard counter mesmer into the ground. Then, and only then, will mesmer MAYBE be viable.

As long as thief is in the state it's in, and counters mesmer as hard as it does, and being a mesmer gives a thief every boon in the game up to two times, there is no hope for this class to be viable.

[UNOwen.7132]

@"Shiyo.3578" said:First off, Plasma(thief steal on mesmer) needs to be heavily nerfed.Second, thief needs to not hard counter mesmer into the ground. Then, and only then, will mesmer MAYBE be viable.

As long as thief is in the state it's in, and counters mesmer as hard as it does, and being a mesmer gives a thief every boon in the game up to two times, there is no hope for this class to be viable.

Yeah, Plasma is kinda nasty. Its weird really, most of thieves stolen skills are so weak you basically dont use them 95% of the time, and then you have "pocket chrono" as a stolen skill.

[Lighter.5631]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:First off, Plasma(thief steal on mesmer) needs to be heavily nerfed.Second, thief needs to not hard counter mesmer into the ground. Then, and only then, will mesmer MAYBE be viable.

As long as thief is in the state it's in, and counters mesmer as hard as it does, and being a mesmer gives a thief every boon in the game up to two times, there is no hope for this class to be viable.

Yeah, Plasma is kinda nasty. Its weird really, most of thieves stolen skills are so weak you basically dont use them 95% of the time, and then you have "pocket chrono" as a stolen skill.

untrue,rev stolen hit like truck and apply slow, deadly to rev, u literally needs to hit as much as you can for how hard it hits.warrior stolen skill in pistol 5 on point makes warrior unable to hit you at all for the duration and does huge damage and kitting while whirling avoid a tons of range damage,thief stolen skill just good in general,elementalist stolen skill hit hard and chill counters elementalist as it affects attunement swap 66%cd increase on attunement swap.engi throw gunk is super good down cleave skillnecro aoe unblockable fear, aoe 600 distance cc that don't consume initiative, how can you not like?and guardian mace, it's literally 3 second daze, it's freaking long, either they use a stunbreak or you get to hit him for 3 seconds for free, if you don't use it you are missing out.ranger water field is just good, removes condition for every one and as a thief you can spam finishers on it and get a tons of healing, or even just for your team to use.

difference between decent thief and bad thief is that bad thief don't realize how good these stolen skills are.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Lighter.5631 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:First off, Plasma(thief steal on mesmer) needs to be heavily nerfed.Second, thief needs to not hard counter mesmer into the ground. Then, and only then, will mesmer MAYBE be viable.

As long as thief is in the state it's in, and counters mesmer as hard as it does, and being a mesmer gives a thief every boon in the game up to two times, there is no hope for this class to be viable.

Yeah, Plasma is kinda nasty. Its weird really, most of thieves stolen skills are so weak you basically dont use them 95% of the time, and then you have "pocket chrono" as a stolen skill.

untrue,rev stolen hit like truck and apply slow, deadly to rev, u literally needs to hit as much as you can for how hard it hits.

Apparently the Rev stolen skill is bugged. And that seems to be a new thing. Im not including it for the time being, since it might still just get fixed (at which point it will hit for about 2k-3k as expected).

warrior stolen skill in pistol 5 on point makes warrior unable to hit you at all for the duration and does huge damage and kitting while whirling avoid a tons of range damage,

Whirling bolts sadly arent that consistent. The Warrior can still attack. Or just use Full Counter, that stops it too. Or just move out of it, its close range and Warrior doesnt lack mobility. Its barely ever used for a reason, and the only real use it has is cleaving downed targets.

thief stolen skill just good in general,

Thats the second of the three or four I would call good, yes. Lets you backstab without using ini as much. Or just backstab real quick mid-combat.

elementalist stolen skill hit hard and chill counters elementalist as it affects attunement swap 66%cd increase on attunement swap.

It did that because of a bug. Right now it does little damage (about 2k or less, I think?). So no, it doesnt hit hard. And Chill really doesnt counter Elementalist, and hasnt for a while thanks to how easy condi cleanses are for them. Its also really close range. You never use it.

engi throw gunk is super good down cleave skill

Its not. Its actually terrible. Barely does damage, most of the random conditions are duds, you almost never use it.

necro aoe unblockable fear, aoe 600 distance cc that don't consume initiative, how can you not like?

Thats the third really good one. Probably the second-best one after Plasma.

and guardian mace, it's literally 3 second daze, it's freaking long, either they use a stunbreak or you get to hit him for 3 seconds for free, if you don't use it you are missing out.

Sadly ruined by the fact that youre facing a guardian, so you have to be close enough and they have to not be blocking. Doesnt really happen, so it usually just sits there until you override it with a new stolen skill. Its decent when stopping revives sometimes though. Not much, but its better than Gunk.

ranger water field is just good, removes condition for every one and as a thief you can spam finishers on it and get a tons of healing, or even just for your team to use.

Thats the fourth one thats kinda good. The issue with it is that you dont really get to stay in it to use it, and using it with leap finishers isnt something the enemy will just let you do. Its useful if you have just escaped combat, but a lot of the time it also just sits there.

difference between decent thief and bad thief is that bad thief don't realize how good these stolen skills are.

The difference between a decent and a great thief is that a great thief realises that most of them in fact arent worth using usually. If you watch Sindrener, you will notice that he doesnt use Gunk ever for example, and Icicle Stab and Mace are usually just "I have literally nothing else I can do might as well throw it out" kinda deals, and they usually whiff due to their short range. Whirling Axe is used sometimes as a quick single projectile reflect, and healing seed has its rare use cases, but for the most part its Thief, Necro, Mesmer and the currently bugged Rev.

[Arkantos.7460]

no nerf mesma , because everytime they say things like come 1vs1 me , they are lying and always play unfair and bring up other guys who help them ...

[mortrialus.3062]

@Arkantos.7460 said:no nerf mesma , because everytime they say things like come 1vs1 me , they are lying and always play unfair and bring up other guys who help them ...

Those are clones

[Tayga.3192]

@"Virdo.1540" said:Game X is bad in comparison with Game Y.Is game X bad cuz of that? No. same with classes.Irrelevant comparison tbh

They are bad if they are unplayable. Are any classes unplayable? No.What u r saying is if one class is a bit strong, every other class is complete shiet

No I am not saying that lol.If holo, crev and ranger can sidenode better than warrior, why play warrior?If thief or even power rev can roam better than mirage, why take mirage?

You can't say "x is fine" without any comparison.Easiest example: s/d thief almost had no nerfs but just because meta has changed now d/p thief is better than it.

[bravan.3876]

All this buff Mesmer - nerf Mesmer comments miss the real issues with Mesmer balance tbh, and it somehow triggers me enough to jump in again.

The question about Mesmer balance it not mainly about how weak or strong it is, i neither think Mesmer (all specs) need that many buffs. The stupidity and nonsensenes about Mesmer balance it the destruction/ contradiction of basic mechanics (Mesmers in general or elite mechanics in particular), making the elites clunky and deleted tons of skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity. If anything will work, then a build on Mirage or Chrono, will for sure not be the high skill ceiling, healthy for the game and fair builds, like power (aside from nonreactive oneshots ofc), for Chrono if anything will work than it will be the balance issue overloaded and easy to play and unfair stuff like Bunkerchrono, phantams spam Chrono or Condichrono, for Mirage it only will be Condimirage. Means exactly the builds the nerfs and trade offs were directed to, survived the most of this mess. It just makes no sense. I also personally think Mesmer is the most balanced when its meta is rotation/ roaming orientated, Mesmer should literally have no viable side node build. It cannot be balanced ever with Mesmers basic mechanics. Mesmer in core GW2 was pure roaming pain train with some team utility. It was the highest skill ceiling/ floor and most balanced state Mesmer was ever in.

Means: Giving Mirage 2 dodges back and giving Chrono Distortion and IP back has to come with nerfs or reworks finally at the correct positions instead.

For Chrono the trade off can be simple stat penalty because when it needs to give up sustain and dmg compared to core, to have lower cds on utility effects (like double elite or double boon remove on utility phantams) than it is a trade off makes sense, defines Chrono more as a support and utility spec and does not contradict class or elite mechanics. Also you could just exclude elites from CS reset.

Mirage needs 2 dodges back and should get reworked condi ambushes instead. Power ambushes also might need to lose some power then, to not be op compared to post patch nerfed power lvl of other classes (like some little dmg reduction on gs ambush from the Mirage itself, little nerfs on vulnerability and might stacks, no clone generation on sword ambush from the Mirage itself, just as examples). It would also make balancing ambushes from Mesmer and clones easier if IH becomes a minor trait (makes sense also because without IH played, Mirage is just a core on steroids, in fact ambushes and IH brings the most skill ceiling to the spec and differs the gameplay style from core the most, as long as ambushes are correct designed, just like on power weapons).

The dodge duration for Mirage is not the issue, that is nonsense, as mentioned already from others, even with 2 dodges Mirage got outdodged by most other classes already. Other classes just have the same or higher amount of addittional dodges and other dmg mitigation skills on weapon and utility skills, other classes even still have passive traits for invuln (Warrior for example) or dodges (Thief for example).

The real problem was, that Condimirage had that much passive clone condi dmg (clone ambushes but also normal clone autoattacks) that they could spec into Chaos or Inspiration and still do high condi dmg while also having insane sustain from low skill ceiling traitlines with insane synergy between Mirage and the passive boonfest in Chaos or invulnspam/ambushspam in Inspiration. All these problems will be solved in the same way we have it now ,when just condi ambushes will be reworked and have utility/effects and not high condi dmg spam as main purpose. It also will give Condimirage the needed opportunity costs in dodgemanagement you do not have on pure condispam ambushes, not forcing Mirages into offensive dodges at all and for that also make the ability to dodge while being stunned insanely op then (this all is no issue on Powermirage simply because of the better designed power ambushes from Mesmer itself and from clones).

Or you relink the ambush/ IH mechanic from dodges and put it into a Mirage specific f5 button, give it an ammo skill with the same cd of a 2 dodge Mirage, so that the Mirage actually can time the ambushes for the purposes of the ambush as active and tactical skill to outplay opponents and not just as a passive side effect from pure defensive dodging. Means f5 enables the ambush window, then the Mesmer needs to press autoattack during ambush window to ambush (so that the Mirage can still decide to ambush himself or not), while clones with IH do the ambush on f5 use automatically. That way ambushes/ IH are 100% active now (not linked to dodges anymore, not doomed to be a passive side effect when only dodging pure defensive) and not only 80% active like on power or 90% passive like on condi.

It rly is that simple but Anet prefers to dumb down high skill ceiling builds/mechanics, make them clunky and even more unviable than before already, while not even fixing the real issues Mirage/ Chrono had on the old meta builds which alone caused the balance issues (even mostly because of low skill ceiling defensive core traitlines).

Meanwhile ofc nonreactive and low counterplay Mantra of Pain spam, stealthspam PU oneshot should not exist either, MoP should become a more defensive skill, like a boon remove Mantra. With that there is also no need for the "face your target" requirement on any Mantra anymore. MoD is balanced as it is now and don't need this clunky restriction. Reworks for PU i made several times already i will not repeat. Also the stun on f3 should not come back, just as old CI and old Lost Time should not come back no matter what. Mesmer has an instant, max range interrupt tool with MoD (what needs to be that way to enable skillful on purpose interrupt gameplay) but that comes with the trade off that Mesmer is not allowed to have too strong interrupt traits and even weaker "proc on cc spam only" traits. Powerblock is a good example for a balanced and high skill ceiling cc trait for Mesmers having access to something like MoD.

All this ofc needs to happen while current braindead bunker and low effort hard cc spam meta builds from other classes get further adjustments. But there are general basic issues in GW2 no class balance alone can solve:

Core defensive traitlines still have too low opportunity costs in dmg on most classes, they are still too passive or too low skill ceiling/floor designed and cause the most balance issues, allowing mistake friendly facetank gameplay, it is not even the elites causing the main issues in this game. The whole trade off agenda is still an inconsistent nonsense mess, i don't want it to come to other elites and it should be reworked or reverted on the elites already got such nonsense trade off and should be replaced with normal nerfs instead. Normal nerfs at right places which do not contradict and delete mechanics and finally solve the real balance issues. Condis are still wrong designed by their basics. High risk-high skill requirement builds have still lower reward in GW2 than low risk-low skill requirement (that is not a Mesmer only issue, it is a gamewide issue, even tho Mesmer as a class with one of the strongest basic mechanics needs to have higher skill requirement to be balanced, that is why Inspiration and Chaos in current state will always be problematic).

There are simple balance basics being wrong in this game, cannot be fixed by class adjustments and number nerfs alone anyway. And the first step is, that Devs do not listen to biased players trying to mess up balance/ meta into their favor and are unpunished for acc sharing, title selling, wintrading etc. and that Devs get some more class knowledge and starting to use brain and logic instead. Also find the courage to admit, that most of the trade off agenda (not only for Mesmer) was purely executed, inconsistent among elites and need fix.

[OyeComoVa.6049]

@"Tayga.3192" said:You can't say "x is fine" without any comparison.Easiest example: s/d thief almost had no nerfs but just because meta has changed now d/p thief is better than it.

Make every classes as fine as mes will be a proper way, just as they claimed.

[bravan.3876]

@OyeComoVa.6049 said:

@"Tayga.3192" said:You can't say "x is fine" without any comparison.Easiest example: s/d thief almost had no nerfs but just because meta has changed now d/p thief is better than it.

Make every classes as fine as mes will be a proper way, just as they claimed.

That would be a good idea if that would not mean delete even more skill ceiling/ floor, mechanical complexity and tactical deepness from other classes as well. Imo the Mesmer nerfs and trade offs didn't make it too weak (aside from the already before unviable power builds ofc), they just contradicted and deleted mechanics, made them clunky and even dumbed them down. Same with Soulbeast btw, even tho here it is not that hard contradicting the mechanics but it also did not solve the balance issues Soulbeast/ Rangers in general have with the passive part of their pet mechanic. It did not add any skill requirement to Soulbeast, actually even deleted mechanical complexity from it.

[Moradorin.6217]

@"pacwax.3402" said:The one dodge change for mirage is fine. Your mirage cloak does so much that having mirage with 2 dodges would be absolute cancer and almost unkillable in the hands of a good player. You also have so many other ways to avoid damage on mesmer, that even now it's really hard to kill.It's still viable in high tier ranked and daily ATs and the main reason it's not played at the highest competitive level is because it gets hardcountered by d/p thieves. As for 3v3s the only viable builds there were all teamfight/support and mesmer is played as a roamer/sidenoder.I am a mesmer main btw so if anything i am biased towards buffing mesmer.

TBH this sounds rediculous to me. Mirage Cloak is the Mirage mechanic, and what makes mirage not be core mesmer. Mirage Cloak has been discussed SO many times and why its NOT OP, its less than what Daredevil gets, etc. Its a 3/4 evade w an ambush window THATS IT, NOTHING ELSE! NOTHING ELSE. The rest of the "Op mirage damage" is and always has been IH which is a GM trait. It should also be powerful and have a reason to be used. WTF! Seriously just WTF!

If ANYTHING needed to be done to mirage it was to tweak the ambush attacks and how the condi is multiplied by the clones, BUT ohh WAIT ambush damage was nerfed into thr ground alone with axe and core weapons. WTF