The Dragon Bash Hologram Stampede should not be a festival event.

[Krozair.3298]

Festival content should be fun for everyone. Reasonable competition is fine. When events become restrictive due to accomplishment, they become not fun because many players simply can’t play the content. This is the issue with the stampede. Mounts have added a lot of fun to the game but they also have some negative effects that mounted players will never notice.

When you are mounted, you don’t get stopped by the mobs on the way to the holograms. Remember how bad that was before mounts? There is plenty of time to reach enough holograms to succeed in the event. There is no problem reaching the holograms regardless of how far they are from waypoints.
When you don’t have mounts, you get stopped by everything. By the time you have cleared enough to move on, the event has moved to another stage and area, or it’s over. It only lasts 5 minutes. You can try to use waypoints but it seldom works because the holograms are intentionally far away from waypoints. The few that are close to waypoints are the first to be completed.

I don’t think it was the intent to block any players from festival content but I do think the level of popularity was severely underestimated. When you see how many players are doing this event, the issue becomes very clear. If you disagree, try this event without a mount, just once, and you will see the vast difference.Yes, the event can be completed at 3am by anyone. So what? I don’t think the event is encouraging to new players. They expect an opportunity to gain some loot and some progress and maybe a level or two, without massive effort. What they see is everyone else getting the loot but they can’t even get progress.

Solutions? Reduce the map cap for these events, create notification when players have completed enough of the event to achieve reward, reduce reward slightly for over killing the event, move the holograms closer to waypoints, expensive but at least the event can be completed. Other ideas welcome.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

My alt account has no Mounts, and only a couple of the maps in which these events happen.No problem participating in at least one Hologram, which gives participation for the entire event.The Holograms spawn in the same order in the same places each time. One need only park their character next to one.

But, if ArenaNet wants to change the event, I'm sure they will take all feedback into consideration.

[Jilora.9524]

Some tricks is stand at a holo spawn point before event starts. Once you get to 4 14 before next round a lot of time you finish the 14th instead of running to another stay put as a new round starts lots of times it's in the same spot you just finished. Go to farther one's away on the map even if you start it solo eventually a few more or the zerg will show up. Play a aoe heavy class like reaper or DH with traps and symbols

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

They need to add a core mount for all players.

[Electra.7530]

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:They need to add a core mount for all players.

I think they make mounts easy enough to get, at least the raptor. Doing a small portion of the story to unlock it is easy. I played this game before mounts and that content was always missing and a burden on my mind. The fact Anet won't provide a real flying mount (not glorified gliders) is another annoyance. But, I don't see how anyone cannot obtain their raptor mount no matter how new they are. Practically everyone starts with a level 80 toon with exotic gear. I didn't. I started at the bottom and worked with the junk (green gear, yellow gear, occasional orange gear with unwanted stats) they gave me as I progressed through the levels. They also provide mount rentals in some events.

[yoni.7015]

Everyone can get a mount ...

[Danikat.8537]

@Krozair.3298 said:You can try to use waypoints but it seldom works because the holograms are intentionally far away from waypoints. The few that are close to waypoints are the first to be completed.

That's news to me. That's been my entire approach and it's worked every single time. You're right that some of the projectors are a long way from waypoints, but you only need to participate in one projector per round to get credit, so you only need to find a maximum of 3 you can reach (less if you get lucky and one projector is involved in two rounds). And yes I've done it without mounts.

I find it helps to look for waypoints nearer the edge of the map rather than in the middle, as I suspect those don't get used as much, and on the far edge of the event area. For example in Snowden Drifts the first two rounds are towards the eastern side of the map, while the third round is further west. So when round 3 starts I'll look for projectors near a waypoint on the western edge of the map.

It also helps to look for ones with two or more projectors nearby, because then if one is already under attack when you load in (you can tell because there will be orange sword icons around it) you can go to the other one.

[Voltekka.2375]

(I may be offtopic here) mount rentals should be a thing in wvw for new players, till they get their own mount.

[Danikat.8537]

@Voltekka.2375 said:(I may be offtopic here) mount rentals should be a thing in wvw for new players, till they get their own mount.

This I do agree with. Especially since getting the warclaw is a time consuming process if you don't normally play WvW, so it would be helpful for players to be able to try it out and decide if they actually want it before going through all the hassle of getting it.

[Julius Seizure.4985]

There are solutions even for core f2p players.

1. Core engineer with traited (gadgeteer) Rocket Boots
2. Elementalist x/dagger, with Greater Fire Sword, Lightning Flash, Ride the Lightning
3. Warrior with sword/x + great sword, Bull’s Charge, Whirlwind, Rush, Savage Leap
4. Thief with a short bow

[Randulf.7614]

@Danikat.8537 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:(I may be offtopic here) mount rentals should be a thing in wvw for new players, till they get their own mount.

This I do agree with. Especially since getting the warclaw is a time consuming process if you don't normally play WvW, so it would be helpful for players to be able to try it out and decide if they actually want it before going through all the hassle of getting it.

The idea is fine, but last time I went to wvw I was faster or equal speed on foot than mount after all the nerfs

[Taril.8619]

I dunno... Most of the time I've actually done Stampede, I just show up, slap a few enemies at 1 Holoprojector and end up with Gold participation for the entire thing (Even as a lowbie level 10 I was using to do a keyrun at the time)

Surely it's not THAT hard to get to a single projector before the entire event is completed?

Also, getting stopped by enemies when without a mount? I'm sorry what? If these events happened in the Crystal Desert where there's tons of Jacaranda that spam immobilize and Forged that spam knockdowns and Cripple sure. But it's just Shiverpeaks, literally nothing there can hit you if you just press W... Let alone actually having any sort of CC to slow you down (Unless you sit around waiting for a Wurm to burrow its way to you)

[Lumikki.1725]

I have done this event for while without mount. While I agree that I can get rewards just fine without mount. I move without mount by choise and I have played this game now about half year.

There is few things that does affect me.

First mounts gives players HUGE advance in this game related allmost every event. Everyone can NOT get mount, even if some people says other ways.

I usually do this event in nights or early mornings, because there is alot less players that time. I mean, it become harder and harder to get rewards when there is more players. Now using waypoints and preposition character correct places before event even starts, is must for someone how does't have mount. How ever mounted players can do same.

Sometimes using waypoints can mean very long loading time of game area, if there is alot of players there, so long that hologram spot is done even before you start running towards it. This has happen me only very a few rare cases. That's why I do this event certain time, so I have more time to get in places, if it's needed. It's not fun, when you are late of spots all the time, it can cause player quit doing it.

Now people who says everyone can get mount. First, you need PoF for it. Second you need to be someting else than REAL new player. Because real new player doesn't even understand how this game works "yet" or know that you need PoF for mount. You need to be level 80 and have some experience about gameplay or someone else helping you to do the first PoF story mission. Problem here is that veteran knows what to do and how to get someting, real new player doesn't. They don't even know that they should ask about it.

As for enemies stoping you or more accurate slowing you down. For new player this does happen even in core land areas. Because they don't know how to avoid certain enemies what use long range attacks. Because you need time to learn everyting first. If you get attacked, you movement speed is slowed. Every second in this events count's, because when the big group of mounted players arrives, IT'S OVER, if you aren't there.

My point here, it's easy to veteran say, do this or that. Real new player doesn't know anyting as how to do something or even know to ask about. If they do. LMAO: You don't have mount.

This issue isn't players fault, they just play this game how it's design. This issue is GW2 game desiners fault, they just didn't take a count how huge affect mounts can have in this game. Not all affects are bad, because mounts are fun and very usefull, gives alot of joy for players, but they do have some side affects related to gameplay.

[Jilora.9524]

@"Lumikki.1725" said:I have done this event for while without mount. While I aree that I can get rewards just fine without mount. I move without mount by choise and I have played this game now about half year.

There is few things that does affect me.

First mounts gives players HUGE advance in this game related allmost every event. Everyone can NOT get mount, even if some people says other ways.

I usually do this event in nights or early mornings, because there is alot less players that time. I mean, it become harder and harder to get rewards when there is more players. Now using waypoints and preposition character correct places before event even starts, is must for someone how does't have mount. How ever mounted players can do same.

Sometimes using waypoints can mean very long loading time of game area, if there is alot of players there, so long that hologram spot is done even before you start running towards it. This has happen me only very a few rare cases. That's why I do this event certain time, so I have more time to get in places, if it's needed. It's not fun, when you are late of spots all the time, it can cause player quit doing it.

Now people who says everyone can get mount. First, you need PoF for it. Second you need to be someting else than REAL new player. Because real new player doesn't even understand how this game works "yet" or know that you need PoF for mount. You need to be level 80 and have some experience about gameplay or someone else helping you to do the first PoF story mission. Problem here is that veteran knows what to do and how to get someting, real new player doesn't. They don't even know that they should ask about it.

As for enemies stoping you or more accurate slowing you down. For new player this does happen even in core land areas. Because they don't know how to avoid certain enemies what use long range attacks. Because you need time to learn everyting first. If you get attacked, you movement speed is slowed. Every second in this events count's, because when the big group of mounted players arrives, IT'S OVER, if you aren't there.

My point here, it's easy to veteran say, do this or that. Real new player doesn't know anyting as how to do something or even know to ask about. If they do. LMAO: You don't have mount.

This issue isn't players fault, they just play this game how it's design. This issue is GW2 game desiners fault, they just didn't take a count how huge affect mounts can have in this game. Not all affects are bad, because mounts are fun and very usefull, gives alot of joy for players, but they do have some side affects related to gameplay.

Maybe but based on his post history this guy is complaining about his alt account so he is no new player and you don't seem to need a ton of damage unless you just go with the zerg and basically only need 1 or 2 to get credit. I'm sure new players will struggle as with anything but so would we if we joined any 8 year old game from scratch

[IndigoSundown.5419]

The first time I participated in this event, I got no credit for the entire event. This happened despite tagging mobs at at least 4 of the hologram emitters. At 3 of those mini-events, I only tagged the veteran, because the normal mobs were dead before I could get there. Thankfully, I managed to get credit on the next five maps in succession. Had I been unable to get credit on the second map, I would have written the event off.

I'll grant that the robust health pools of these mobs in comparison to zone mobs of their level mean that they persist longer than "regular" mobs in those zones. Despite that, the Hologram Stampede reminds me of the Daily Event task in low-level zones. It's a race to get to mobs and do enough damage to get credit for the event. Those Daily event tasks promote some of the most unenjoyable gameplay I've ever seen in an online game, and the Stampede is not much better.

I found the Stampede was doable, but certainly not fun. Thankfully, meta credit for Dragon Bash Feats did not require more than the five I managed to eke out. I won't be back, at least for this year.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Voltekka.2375 said:(I may be offtopic here) mount rentals should be a thing in wvw for new players, till they get their own mount.

Yes, it took so long to unlock the mount and you're a sitting duck without it. It's actually stupid design.

[Linken.6345]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:(I may be offtopic here) mount rentals should be a thing in wvw for new players, till they get their own mount.

Yes, it took so long to unlock the mount and you're a sitting duck without it. It's actually stupid design.

It took long?Take a camp take a keep take a tower and fill out a reward tracks was pretty quick imo.

[crepuscular.9047]

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:They need to add a core mount for all players.

that's unlikely to happen, only a very small portion of active players are on core, majority of the core accounts are either free accounts or alt accounts

and the mount system is the carrot to get people to buy PoF

[Kulvar.1239]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:My alt account has no Mounts, and only a couple of the maps in which these events happen.No problem participating in at least one Hologram, which gives participation for the entire event.The Holograms spawn in the same order in the same places each time. One need only park their character next to one.

But, if ArenaNet wants to change the event, I'm sure they will take all feedback into consideration.

Only thing ANet could do to make it easy for unmounted people : show the next spawn location so you can anticipate.

[Lumikki.1725]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:The Holograms spawn in the same order in the same places each time. One need only park their character next to one.

Just correcting this one.

They do not allways spawn in same order and same place. They spawn very often in same area, but not allways in same place. Example I often go sertain point to wait the first spawn. I see three holograms spots, but it's random what spot will be as one of the first rounds holograms. Sometimes some hologram spot is not even any of the rounds. Sometimes same hologram spot can be in all the three round.

I don't know how the reward works, but as far what I have seen. If you get succesfull message in all three round, you have change to get 3 chest from every round. Doesn't allways how ever happen. Also if you aren't making enough damage or healing or what ever in some spot, it may not count as anyting. But usually it doesn't take much of effort to get the succesfull message. Also in my opinion veterans mobs what exist in every spawn, you can sometimes get extra chest from them as loot. How ever, reward seem to vary so much that it's hard me to say how it works. I have got 0 to 13 chest from one event without mount. If everyting fails , you usually still get at least 3 chest, if you did at least hit something.

1 chest value is about 20 silver. So getting them worth of 1-2 gold in every 15min is possible.

[Krozair.3298]

Ok, this paid account is limited to core Tyria and will stay that way until Hot is not forced on those who buy Pof. Clearly nobody actually tried this event without a mount.You dont have mobs covering every area in WvW like in the PvE game so you wont get stopped and might actully be faster on foot with the right character. If you'd like to spend massive amounts of time sitting and waiting to hope an even spawns on you, you can. That just seems absurd to me. Participating in one hologram spot gains nothing even though this toon has level 8o massive condi. It finishes the minion masher task in 3 sets of minions so it's doing massive damage to one hologram site but thats all because it's stopped from reaching the other holograms every time, while mounts go sailing past. The event is so overpopulated that even if it spawns on top of you a few tail spins, or cannonballs wipe out most of the mobs so one spot is not enough. Waypointing is done by many players. There's no real advantage to unmounted players there.

The point of this post was not to complain, but to show that the event is not fair to all players and I personally feel events in a Festival should be created and maintained so skill makes a difference, not how much money you have , or expansion you've bought. Maybe it's just me but Festivals events always had a feel of personal challenge, and not a competitive feel to them. This event is just radically different. If you are convinced it's that simple, so was I, till I tried it without a mount. Try it.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Krozair.3298 said:Clearly nobody actually tried this event without a mount.I'd advise you to read the second post in this thread.

[Krozair.3298]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Krozair.3298 said:Clearly nobody actually tried this event without a mount.I'd advise you to read the second post in this thread.

I'd advise you to read the post 2 above yours.They didn't try it without a mount, they were already doing it without a mount. I've seen individuals clear all 5 holograms in a few seconds. They have great builds. We shouldn't all need great builds to do one event among many in a Festival daily. I really enjoy the event concept when mounted, and I'd like to see the event expanded into regular game play but it's remarkably frustrating unmounted and I can see it driving away new players. It would be great in a different format within the game.

[Lumikki.1725]

@Krozair.3298 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Krozair.3298 said:Clearly nobody actually tried this event without a mount.I'd advise you to read the second post in this thread.

I'd advise you to read the post 2 above yours.They didn't try it without a mount, they were already doing it without a mount. I've seen individuals clear all 5 holograms in a few seconds. They have great builds. We shouldn't all need great builds to do one event among many in a Festival daily. I really enjoy the event concept when mounted, and I'd like to see the event expanded into regular game play but it's remarkably frustrating unmounted and I can see it driving away new players. It would be great in a different format within the game.

While you are right as pointing out what's the different between mounted and unmounted player in this event (and also many other events). I don't really see, what we players can do about it. I mean if GW2 game developers don't understand by now this point of view, when we have discussed the situation many times in this forum, there is not much what we can do about it. Because anyone who actully have walked around by foot to these kind of events can see the difference. It doesn't change anyting if mounted player can see it too. I think many of them can, but they are just doing the event how the GW2 game designers has design.

I do understand the fustration and affect to new players this does have, because I'm one of those who do walks everywhere, so me it's very easy to see. I don't think it's good idea change event's in long terms, better solution would be giving somekind beginners mount to "all" new players (at least those who have buyed the game).

Example give new player as reward somekind non upgratable version mount, example "donkey, pony, turtle, ostrich", when they have done they personal quest at level 10 or 20. That would solve alot of issues about event's. I do understand veterans players view point as they have worked hard for they goals (mount in this case). How ever game has changed alot by these years and mount have had really huge affect to event based gameplay.

This is because old quest bases gameplay required player to start the quest by every person them self. In event based gameplay even one player can start the event and others can join to it or events happens by them own. That means when event start players need to go to event, there speed of travel has significant impact. Event can be done before player even arrives to it. Meaning events are time sensitive way to do "quest", old system was not. Don't get me wrong, I think event system is better, even if the old quest system has it place too.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Krozair.3298 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Krozair.3298 said:Clearly nobody actually tried this event without a mount.I'd advise you to read the second post in this thread.

I'd advise you to read the post 2 above yours.They didn't try it without a mount, they were already doing it without a mount. I've seen individuals clear all 5 holograms in a few seconds. They have great builds. We shouldn't all need great builds to do one event among many in a Festival daily. I really enjoy the event concept when mounted, and I'd like to see the event expanded into regular game play but it's remarkably frustrating unmounted and I can see it driving away new players. It would be great in a different format within the game.

Literally the first reply IN THIS THREAD:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:My alt account has no Mounts, and only a couple of the maps in which these events happen.No problem participating in at least one Hologram, which gives participation for the entire event.The Holograms spawn in the same order in the same places each time. One need only park their character next to one.

But, if ArenaNet wants to change the event, I'm sure they will take all feedback into consideration.

You can make bogus claims as much as you want @Krozair.3298. It is not hard to get credit on at least 1 event to get the reward for all 3 stages. I have done so without using a mount on my main by even teleporting in late on a map in stage 3, teleporting to another waypoint and tagging the event close to that one.

Yes, you will participate in less events total. No that does not prevent you from getting the full reward for all 3 stages, if all 3 stages are cleared.

This might be an issue you feel strongly about, strong enough to create a duplicate thread after your last one (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/108811/festivals-in-core-tyria#latest), but it most certainly is NOT game breaking or in need of immediate attention or any attention at all imo.

As far as HoT being "forced" on players who purchase PoF. That is unlikely to ever change again. So feel free to stay on a core account permanently but don't expect a lot of consideration because this game has moved on content and development wise.