Thief nerf list (UPDATED)

[zyra.7860]

Hello, this list is made after meeting with current top players of GW2 PvP community and with thief coaches (Sindrener was not one). We discussed a lot (actually 2,5 hours) about thief balance and ended up to these tweaks.

Thief overall:-normal steal range from 1200 to 600, swipe range from 600 to 300 (keep unblockable effect as compensation).-make 3 initiatives trait in trickery to baseline-decrease heartseeker damage by 10% and make it cost one more initiative-dash is currently greatly overperforming, make thief to get 2s weakness after use of dash, this would balance the amount of dodge/dmg rotations-remove chocking gas daze, make it cost 1 less initiative-remove "stealth when use steal trait" add something like "get 1s evade on steal" instead-remove condition remove trait in stealth, instead make conditions duration -50% less while in stealth-decrease backstab and d/p skill #3 damage by 20%-remove return part from shadowstep utility, so u can still stunbreak and remove conditions, but cant return back to cast spot, its too much mobility-nerf cluster bomb dmg by 10%-nerf teleport range with shortbow to 600 unit, costs 1 more intiative (teleport is currently best way to avoid damage)-nerf stealth duration traits in SA

Deadeye:-make deadeye mark last -50% in duration, it sticks atm for way too long-nerf DE rifle skill 2 dmg by 15%-nerf Death's judgement damage by 30%-decrease the distance that DE can teleport with rifle skill #4

We considered sword as balanced weapon s/d and s/p arent problematic or overperforming currently. Highly recommend to Anet PvP devs to take a look at those notes before next tuesday balance update.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@zyra.7860 said:

We considered sword as balanced weapon s/d and s/p arent problematic or overperforming currently

Ha! Until your generous nerfs force people into this then more complaints.

Also a lot of them joke nerfs would please a lot of people, especially weakness after dash lol.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

A MESMER'S PERSPECTIVE ON THIS

@"zyra.7860" said:Hello, this list is made after meeting with current top players of GW2 PvP community and with thief coaches (Sindrener was not one). We discussed a lot (actually 2,5 hours) about thief balance and ended up to these tweaks.

Thief overall:-normal steal range from 1200 to 600, swipe range from 600 to 300 (keep unblockable effect as compensation).That's a bit too harsh imho. Like, a lot. Consume plasma needs a hard nerf though.

-make 3 initiatives trait in trickery to baselineMeh, whatever, everybody picks it already.-decrease heartseeker damage by 10% and make it cost one more initiativeThe real problem on that is that heartseeker is both a defensive and offensive tool (smoke field = stealth; water field = healing), and daredevils have quite an extreme amount of survival already. If anything I'd make heartseeker cost one more initiative, and have that one initiative point being refunded if you hit something; this way, its defensive value would be reduced without breaking the mechanic of fighting dagger thieves; if you get below 50% you need to disengage real quick.

-dash is currently greatly overperforming, make thief to get 2s weakness after use of dash, this would balance the amount of dodge/dmg rotationsAgree on dash overperforming, don't agree on the way to tackle this

-remove chocking gas daze, make it cost 1 less initiativeThe daze on chocking gas make it a valuable tool to stop res. Remove the daze and chocking gas loses its one use.

-remove "stealth when use steal trait" add something like "get 1s evade on steal" insteadThis would make the situation even worse imho

-remove condition remove trait in stealth, instead make conditions duration -50% less while in stealthMeh, ok

-decrease backstab and d/p skill #3 damage by 20%My real problem with d/p 3 is the unblockable blind tbh. Against a d\p thief you spend half of your time with blindness on, and when there's no blindness the thief is stealthed. Remove the unblockable and you get at least some form of counterplay in the form of aegis\blocks\whatever, to stop the teleport and the blind

-remove return part from shadowstep utility, so u can still stunbreak and remove conditions, but cant return back to cast spot, its too much mobilitySo it would become a weaker version of blink? Don't really agree on this one. If REALLY necessary I'd reduce the range from 1200 to 900.

-nerf cluster bomb dmg by 10%Don't really agree with that, it's the only ranged option for thieves without going deadeye, and the only AoE tool other than staff, which is not in a good spot itself

-nerf teleport range with shortbow to 600 unit, costs 1 more intiative (teleport is currently best way to avoid damage)Big no for me

-nerf stealth duration traits in SAThis one really needs to be done.

Deadeye:-make deadeye mark last -50% in duration, it sticks atm for way too long-nerf DE rifle skill 2 dmg by 15%-nerf Death's judgement damage by 30%Deadeye is the least problematic of thief's specs. Compare it with daredevil: to die as a daredevil you need to fuck up REAL bad. Deadeye on the other hand actually has counterplays -projectile hate, hard stuns\immob, AoE cleave, oneshots-. I wouldn't nerf it-decrease the distance that DE can teleport with rifle skill #4It would make sense but kneeled rifle needs a buff. Right now there's no real choice, kneeling is too risky without enough of a reward.

[Bazsi.2734]

@"zyra.7860" said:Hello, this list is made after meeting with current top players of GW2 PvP community and with thief coaches (Sindrener was not one). We discussed a lot (actually 2,5 hours) about thief balance and ended up to these tweaks.

You sold it enough for me to bother reading the whole things, but...

Thief overall:-normal steal range from 1200 to 600, swipe range from 600 to 300 (keep unblockable effect as compensation).

Having to go into holo-mode autoattack range to swipe is laughable. I mean points for realism, but balancewise this is just no. Also love how not taking away the unblockable effect is "compensation". Remember when compenastion meant giving something in exchange?

-make 3 initiatives trait in trickery to baseline

The point of initiative cost nerfs is to force thieves into picking trickery, so that they cannot have offensive traitline picks. Way to invalidate your own way of balancing.

-decrease heartseeker damage by 10% and make it cost one more initiative

This is what I'm talking about. Make thieves skills cost more, but also give them more initative?... PICK ONE! Either limit thieves ability to spam or don't.

-dash is currently greatly overperforming, make thief to get 2s weakness after use of dash, this would balance the amount of dodge/dmg rotations

Yes dash is strong, but this solution... it's funny because you need daredevil to have enough on demand dodges to avoid getting weakened. So now you want the thief to weaken itself. I'd really love to see the list of "current top players" now.

-remove chocking gas daze, make it cost 1 less initiative

Without the daze, it's just a poisonfield, we had that iteration already: it used to cost 4 initiative and was useless on anything but condi builds. Your version is just the old useless iteration but with extra high iniative cost this time. How is that balance?

-remove "stealth when use steal trait" add something like "get 1s evade on steal" instead

Oh yes, more evades. Thief needs evades. (No it doesn't, it's the worst thing you can possibly give to thief)

-remove condition remove trait in stealth, instead make conditions duration -50% less while in stealth

This would still result in roughly the same effect. Would also need some serious coding to implement. Too much work to change nothing.

-decrease backstab and d/p skill #3 damage by 20%

Once you remove enough damage from thief to prevent it from forcing kills in +1, the meta will change into something horrible. We had a bunker meta once already. If reaper and holo are also toned down, we're in for a boring 3 months(maybe more).

-remove return part from shadowstep utility, so u can still stunbreak and remove conditions, but cant return back to cast spot, its too much mobility

The return part has the condition removal though. Do you intend to make it instantly cleanse 3 condis aswell? This would turn a tactical skill into something dumb, simple and powerful.

-nerf cluster bomb dmg by 10%-nerf teleport range with shortbow to 600 unit, costs 1 more intiative (teleport is currently best way to avoid damage)

So you want to remove the CC, the mobility and the damage from shortbow... anything else? I mean the autoattack bounces, isn't that OP?

-nerf stealth duration traits in SA

So what would be the point of the traitline?

Deadeye:-make deadeye mark last -50% in duration, it sticks atm for way too longYou couldn't even maintain it on a target like that. Not even with trickery. I really need the names of those top GW2 players.-nerf DE rifle skill 2 dmg by 15%-nerf Death's judgement damage by 30%

Oh yes, butcher deadeye damage. After all, trading mobility for damage shouldn't mean you get to do damage.

-decrease the distance that DE can teleport with rifle skill #4Also, trade more mobility for that damage you're not really getting!

We considered sword as balanced weapon s/d and s/p arent problematic or overperforming currently. Highly recommend to Anet PvP devs to take a look at those notes before next tuesday balance update.

Really, sword 2 with 900 range and a return is fine? Thats not too much mobility? Shortbow has a MUCH WORSE initiative to distance traveled ratio, and also less useful in combat, but you went real hard on that one.This isn't an objective look on thief, this is a "nerfs things I dislike" post. Also this is my opinion after consulting with all previous GW2 top players for a millennium. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[RedAvenged.5217]

This is the most accurate list ever posted on the forums. Anyone who disagrees is a memer

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

@"zyra.7860" said:Hello, this list is made after meeting with current top players of GW2 PvP community and with thief coaches (Sindrener was not one). We discussed a lot (actually 2,5 hours) about thief balance and ended up to these tweaks.

Thief overall:-normal steal range from 1200 to 600, swipe range from 600 to 300 (keep unblockable effect as compensation).No.-make 3 initiatives trait in trickery to baselineNo. Giving a candy for free is bad.-decrease heartseeker damage by 10% and make it cost one more initiativeNo. What's the point?-dash is currently greatly overperforming, make thief to get 2s weakness after use of dash, this would balance the amount of dodge/dmg rotationsIt won't balance a thing. Reduce endurance from 150 to 100 and that's it for whole Daredevil.-remove chocking gas daze, make it cost 1 less initiativeNo. Remove unblockable, daze can stay, make it "The same enemy can be dazed by this skill once every 3s".-remove "stealth when use steal trait" add something like "get 1s evade on steal" insteadAnother no. Evade on steal... As if Teef need more iframes...-remove condition remove trait in stealth, instead make conditions duration -50% less while in stealthNo? It won't do anything.-decrease backstab and d/p skill #3 damage by 20%No reason to do so for backstab, yes for #3 skill on D/P and reduce blind duration to 3s.-remove return part from shadowstep utility, so u can still stunbreak and remove conditions, but cant return back to cast spot, its too much mobilityNot needed, just reduce the window to max 3-5s. Same for Sword/x teleport.-nerf cluster bomb dmg by 10%Why? No.-nerf teleport range with shortbow to 600 unit, costs 1 more intiative (teleport is currently best way to avoid damage)No, reduce blind to 2s.-nerf stealth duration traits in SAJust... make... stealth... unstackable in PvP/WvW.... If skill says 3s stealth, it means you'll get revealed after 3s and you can't prolong it in anyway via other skills/combos and after that reveal you can once again enter stealth.

Deadeye:-make deadeye mark last -50% in duration, it sticks atm for way too long-nerf DE rifle skill 2 dmg by 15%-nerf Death's judgement damage by 30%-decrease the distance that DE can teleport with rifle skill #4

No, just delete this spec from the game and start from scratch, very dumb design that is just toxic for PvP/WvW environment.BTW. Why I don't see any proposed "tweaks" for Deadeye elite skill though?We considered sword as balanced weapon s/d and s/p arent problematic or overperforming currently. Highly recommend to Anet PvP devs to take a look at those notes before next tuesday balance update.S/P -> remove stun from 3 OR make it 1/4s daze.S/D -> remove evade from 3 and reduce base damage of secondary skill by atleast 10~15%.S/x -> reduce teleport back window to 3-5s on 2nd skill.What about P/x builds? Like Bola shot that should get increased Ini cost or reduced immobilize duration?What about other skills like Blind Powder on x/P builds that should get reduced radius?

Who are these "top PvP players"? Sword isn't balanced, it's just not abused in current meta, for real... You people need to look a bit more ahead instead of "ITS NOT META = ITS NOT BROKEN IN ANY WAY"...I didn't know that Coal tier is now "top PvP players"...

[Dahkeus.8243]

I'm not sure I completely buy the overperforming bit enough to justify the long list of nerfs here. Sure, thief is very effective at its role, but it's a role that has almost always been performed by only thieves and mesmers, which is a roaming/+1 role. Mesmer has been able to work as a suitable alternative to daredevil in the past with many of the skills listed here working just as they have in the past without any nerfs (even Dash before it was nerfed the first time).

More important than what specifically should be nerfed, I think people need to be able to identify what the outcome of any nerfing should be. Honestly, any list of skills to nerf or quantity of nerfs that people think is needed is ultimately pointless when it's discussed without the context of what other nerfs/buffs are happening to other professions.

Personally, I don't think that there needs to be a ton of nerfs to daredevil mobility as it's already significantly lower than it has been in the past with the nerfs to steal(now Swipe) and dash. More importantly, I think that mesmer needs to be helped to be a competitor to the roaming +1 role so that options for legitimate team comps have options beyond daredevil for a team roamer.

[otto.5684]

Back stab is such a cowardly move, as the name implies. Now it is changed to stab and deals 50% less damage than before. 70% less than before.

[Vancho.8750]

The problem with thief since February that hard or soft doesn't work on them, if someone manages to time they skill and hit a thief they just clear the cc and run off without taking anything so they can attack multiple times. This spawned really really bad thieves, that can't rotate at all but they think they are good since they don't die.So we are stuck with so many bandwagoner thieves that say thief doesn't do damage or is bad or some other bullshit, while having multiple builds for many situations.These multiple dumb threads with buff thief will end up in a Cry Wolf situation.

[Carnifex.3275]

Wut the hell did i just read? Thieves themselves actually want to get their class neutered even more?

-remove return part from shadowstep utility, so u can still stunbreak and remove conditions, but cant return back to cast spot, its too much mobility-decrease backstab and d/p skill #3 damage by 20%-normal steal range from 1200 to 600, swipe range from 600 to 300 (keep unblockable effect as compensation).-nerf teleport range with shortbow to 600 unit, costs 1 more intiative (teleport is currently best way to avoid damage)

???? Backstab used to always be our main burst. It's already hitting far less then it used to and it also has a cooldown if you miss. Tbh even now i don't rely on backstab anymore cuz it's just not worth it. Swipe to 300? Shortbow 600? No return on shadowstep?! Seriously?

I won't comment on other nerfs too much but it sounds straight up outlandish. K let's say we nerf it so what are the things that we get instead? Prepardeness as baseline and that's it? Kleptomaniac/Lead attacks/Sleight of hand are just as important for ini regen and ppl still wouldnt switch out off of Trickery even if you make Prep. baseline. U want to further nerf thieves dmg / mobility so what do we get instead? Any real means to survive like blocks/invulns/stab/heals/cleanse? I would agree to these if we would instead get something that would enable us to be teamfighters/duelists and able to hold point. Cuz with that kind of mobility i wouldnt want to be a decapper anymore. If these changes would actually be implemented i'm quite sure we'd see Staff thieves again. Running some Acrobatics/Trickery/Daredevil vault meme spam builds pretending to be teamfighters. Cuz why not? If our mobility is taken from us then let's go and hold points. Oh the amount of salt we would get in /t chat.

[NotFound.7813]

@Vancho.8750 said:The problem with thief since February that hard or soft doesn't work on them, if someone manages to time they skill and hit a thief they just clear the cc and run off without taking anything so they can attack multiple times. This spawned really really bad thieves, that can't rotate at all but they think they are good since they don't die.So we are stuck with so many bandwagoner thieves that say thief doesn't do damage or is bad or some other kitten, while having multiple builds for many situations.These multiple dumb threads with buff thief will end up in a Cry Wolf situation.

The point isnt thief doenst do dmg , the point is thief cant kill sidenoders when it comes to a plus , and im talking ablut tanky meta sidenoders aka scrapper or old condi rev.

[zarcon.7820]

@"zyra.7860" said:Hello, this list is made after meeting with current top players of GW2 PvP community and with thief coaches (Sindrener was not one). We discussed a lot (actually 2,5 hours) about thief balance and ended up to these tweaks.

Thief overall:-normal steal range from 1200 to 600, swipe range from 600 to 300 (keep unblockable effect as compensation).-make 3 initiatives trait in trickery to baseline-decrease heartseeker damage by 10% and make it cost one more initiative-dash is currently greatly overperforming, make thief to get 2s weakness after use of dash, this would balance the amount of dodge/dmg rotations-remove chocking gas daze, make it cost 1 less initiative-remove "stealth when use steal trait" add something like "get 1s evade on steal" instead-remove condition remove trait in stealth, instead make conditions duration -50% less while in stealth-decrease backstab and d/p skill #3 damage by 20%-remove return part from shadowstep utility, so u can still stunbreak and remove conditions, but cant return back to cast spot, its too much mobility-nerf cluster bomb dmg by 10%-nerf teleport range with shortbow to 600 unit, costs 1 more intiative (teleport is currently best way to avoid damage)-nerf stealth duration traits in SA

Deadeye:-make deadeye mark last -50% in duration, it sticks atm for way too long-nerf DE rifle skill 2 dmg by 15%-nerf Death's judgement damage by 30%-decrease the distance that DE can teleport with rifle skill #4

We considered sword as balanced weapon s/d and s/p arent problematic or overperforming currently. Highly recommend to Anet PvP devs to take a look at those notes before next tuesday balance update.

Great list zyra! Hope Anet listens to you

[Vancho.8750]

@wevh.2903 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:The problem with thief since February that hard or soft doesn't work on them, if someone manages to time they skill and hit a thief they just clear the cc and run off without taking anything so they can attack multiple times. This spawned really really bad thieves, that can't rotate at all but they think they are good since they don't die.So we are stuck with so many bandwagoner thieves that say thief doesn't do damage or is bad or some other kitten, while having multiple builds for many situations.These multiple dumb threads with buff thief will end up in a Cry Wolf situation.

The point isnt thief doenst do dmg , the point is thief cant kill sidenoders when it comes to a plus , and im talking ablut tanky meta sidenoders aka scrapper or old condi rev.You don't have problem with thief you have problem that bruiser sidenoders are missing, you get bunker vs bunker and they don't do much to each other so you come in with a thief and do 50% of the bunkers hp but your team mate is doing peanut damage and the other bunker resets. Thief doesn't need buffs it needs its strange best friend the warrior to punch people off the nodes by doing damage so that 50% hp damage dealt means something.

[NotFound.7813]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@wevh.2903 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:The problem with thief since February that hard or soft doesn't work on them, if someone manages to time they skill and hit a thief they just clear the cc and run off without taking anything so they can attack multiple times. This spawned really really bad thieves, that can't rotate at all but they think they are good since they don't die.So we are stuck with so many bandwagoner thieves that say thief doesn't do damage or is bad or some other kitten, while having multiple builds for many situations.These multiple dumb threads with buff thief will end up in a Cry Wolf situation.

The point isnt thief doenst do dmg , the point is thief cant kill sidenoders when it comes to a plus , and im talking ablut tanky meta sidenoders aka scrapper or old condi rev.You don't have problem with thief you have problem that bruiser sidenoders are missing, you get bunker vs bunker and they don't do much to each other so you come in with a thief and do 50% of the bunkers hp but your team mate is doing peanut damage and the other bunker resets. Thief doesn't need buffs it needs its strange best friend the warrior to punch people off the nodes by doing damage so that 50% hp damage dealt means something.

Yea ofc thief doenst need dmg buff the main problem is in bunker sidenoder meta

[Rukia.4802]

oh man this is gold lol

[Sismis.5390]

Reading this made me laugh.After years of nerfing toning dmg from class to class down.Where class what was not touched 1-2 or more seasons.That classes come then out on the top dmg.Now think about it what horrible things the nerfs did.Whole changing passive skills like panic freak left and right without any consistent plan.We got our self now weird pvp what so broken i got no words for it.Last time i played active 4 years ago thieves where not even a problem exception you where really dumb.Reason why is each class individual had tools ( passives,skills ) at disposal to be self sustain.Now the community whiners over years done it.Each class is so broken some of them more then 50% some a bit less.But we are in the crap position now.Cause all that wham nerfs without any real constructive plan.Everybody screams and rages over thieves who are the least nerfed touched from other classes.The changes Thief went trough where mostly fixes,example steal used to hit over 9k ( now fixed skill does not critical hit ) and many others.Cause other classes that got broken down trough nerf.They cannot manage like 4 years ago to combat vs thief.There are missing runes,passives and some skills functions.Now put a little thinking in how the current classes got so broken over years affecting whole classes and gameplay.

[Zawn.9647]

i just wish condi thief had to play the game instead of spamming the "3" button

[UNOwen.7132]

I am assuming this list is meant to be a joke, yes? Nerfing Deadeye which is already bad. Making any mainhand dagger build completely 100% unplayable. Hell, nerfing Shortbow 5 without compensation alone makes thief just bad.

[Raiden The Beast.3016]

Next balance teefSA

• reduce stealth uptime
• Stealth on steal only when steal hit target

Skills

• heartseaker dmg nerf

Buffs: lol no, teef will never see any buff again

[Metzie.3451]

@"zyra.7860" said:this list is made after meeting with current top players of GW2 PvP community

First I had read the "proposed changes", but then I read the upper part ... I had to smile, and I still do. :)

I will only mention those suggestions which (at first for me personally) are quite ok, i.e. would agree with them. The others, well ... without any further comment (for now)! :) Nevertheless, there would be a lot more changes that would need to be noted or explained.

Thief overall:-make 3 initiatives trait in trickery to baseline-nerf stealth duration traits in SA

First of all I recommend to change the "3 initiative trait" as a baseline. Basically this change is long overdue, especially to allow more build variety. There is basically no build (rather pvp/wvw related) that does not show "trickery" as a "must have". AND only when this change was made, further adjustments would be made (concerning e.g. the initiative costs). 

---

In general: I consider many changes "on the fly", especially concerning the balancing, to be counterproductive and a mistake (if they can't or couldn't be tested at all before). Why this behaviour is still maintained, by the developer or some people who make suggestions, is probably due to the fact that the frequency of "balance patches" is basically uncertain (or more unfriendly expressed, still just bad - no offense, that's the GW2 policy)! And to add to this: Nothing will change this chaos or the behavior if there are no fundamental changes to the balance mechanism, which makes more possible than what we experience again and again. Consequently, we (continue to) take what we can get or what is possible (until Sleeping Beauty awakes from her sleep).

Misbehavior: Better to make many changes at once, which might make the class or specialization unplayable (or even OP, in the worst case), rather than taking smaller steps, but more often! I don't think it would be necessary to explain this "known" fact, right? I also think it's a big mistake to make adjustments that "take something away" from someone (which has long been a common standard or doesn't hit the point just to tone something down). For example, the stealing range or the port range. For example, the initiative cost for "Death's Retreat" was adjusted (a longer time ago) so that you can only port 2 times instead of 3 times. If at all, I would start with that (initiative management), but not as suggested by "the current top players of GW2 PvP Community"! And also I would only consider this if the "Baseline +3 Initiative" was updated as general (and not reduced to a trait, called "Preparedness").

---

[zyra.7860]

So you asked who were top players i discussed with, one of them was current #1 thief, Fat Boi Harry (best DE player in this game atm) And other was Tiger Tiger (best core thief), rank 2 of thiefs. Others helping and giving opinions were Faeleth, Destfire and Theslonderman (good thiefs too, but not high knowledge as Harry have).

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

I dunno, a lot of them I see in wvw and they all run shadow arts with up to 80% stealthing and the rest just dashing about.

[Strider.7849]

@"zyra.7860" said:Hello, this list is made after meeting with current top players of GW2 PvP community and with thief coaches (Sindrener was not one). We discussed a lot (actually 2,5 hours) about thief balance and ended up to these tweaks.

Thief overall:-normal steal range from 1200 to 600, swipe range from 600 to 300 (keep unblockable effect as compensation).-make 3 initiatives trait in trickery to baseline-decrease heartseeker damage by 10% and make it cost one more initiative-dash is currently greatly overperforming, make thief to get 2s weakness after use of dash, this would balance the amount of dodge/dmg rotations-remove chocking gas daze, make it cost 1 less initiative-remove "stealth when use steal trait" add something like "get 1s evade on steal" instead-remove condition remove trait in stealth, instead make conditions duration -50% less while in stealth-decrease backstab and d/p skill #3 damage by 20%-remove return part from shadowstep utility, so u can still stunbreak and remove conditions, but cant return back to cast spot, its too much mobility-nerf cluster bomb dmg by 10%-nerf teleport range with shortbow to 600 unit, costs 1 more intiative (teleport is currently best way to avoid damage)-nerf stealth duration traits in SA

Deadeye:-make deadeye mark last -50% in duration, it sticks atm for way too long-nerf DE rifle skill 2 dmg by 15%-nerf Death's judgement damage by 30%-decrease the distance that DE can teleport with rifle skill #4

We considered sword as balanced weapon s/d and s/p arent problematic or overperforming currently. Highly recommend to Anet PvP devs to take a look at those notes before next tuesday balance update.

You probably should have consulted Sind, whoever these "top players" are have no concept of balance.

Stealth duration is the only thing there that can be messed with. You start stripping thief's main mechanic, messing with their energy pool even though their costs have been increased, adding in random damage nerfs.. all of this is just bad. Hard to believe that after 2.5 hours this was the result.

[Bazsi.2734]

@zyra.7860 said:So you asked who were top players i discussed with, one of them was current #1 thief, Fat Boi Harry (best DE player in this game atm) And other was Tiger Tiger (best core thief), rank 2 of thiefs. Others helping and giving opinions were Faeleth, Destfire and Theslonderman (good thiefs too, but not high knowledge as Harry have).

I know Faeleth and Dest personally... cool I can ask them. I'll get a fun converstation, even if it turns out they aren't just namedrops. I'm 99% sure they are just namedrops.

Edit: Aaand now that 99% turned into a 100%. LoL.

[WarpedMystherion.5964]

zyra since when did i talk to u and i never said anything about de nor d/p regarding nerf or buff and heck i dont even know u lol