Please reduce ranked PvP rank req to 15

[Morvran.8265]

So right now new players must first reach rank 20 in PvP before they can queue for ranked. The Steam release is fast approaching, and I think this requirement should be reduced to 15. Here's why.

Rank 15 should take the average new player about 20 hours of grind as is.

Rank 20 is more like 35-40 hours of nonstop PvP grind. I think that's way too big of a barrier of entry for a new player interested in competitive.

Yes, you may say that new players have no place in ranked and you are right. A barrier should exist. But let's be honest, if they were to go up against someone out of their league who has 1k or so hours in the game, it wouldn't matter if they had 20 hours of experience or 40. In terms of player skill the difference between rank 15 and 20 is meaningless.

It's the division system's job to sort players into the appropriate division anyway. More people in ranked -> lower Q times and better matchmaking -> happy new players.

I firmly believe that they'd have a better experience in ranked than in unranked, and the fact that they have to put about 2 days of gametime into PvP alone before they can enter ranked is daunting. I'd like to see this game grow with the Steam launch, and I think this small change could benefit everyone.

TL;DR rank 20 is an unnecessarily big barrier of entry, 15 might be more reasonable.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"Morvran.8265" said:So right now new players must first reach rank 20 in PvP before they can queue for ranked. The Steam release is fast approaching, and I think this requirement should be reduced to 15. Here's why.

Rank 15 should take the average new player about 20 hours of grind as is.

Rank 20 is more like 35-40 hours of nonstop PvP grind. I think that's way too big of a barrier of entry for a new player interested in competitive.

Yes, you may say that new players have no place in ranked and you are right. A barrier should exist. But let's be honest, if they were to go up against someone out of their league who has 1k or so hours in the game, it wouldn't matter if they had 20 hours of experience or 40. In terms of player skill the difference between rank 15 and 20 is meaningless.

It's the division system's job to sort players into the appropriate division anyway. More people in ranked -> lower Q times and better matchmaking -> happy new players.

I firmly believe that they'd have a better experience in ranked than in unranked, and the fact that they have to put about 2 days of gametime into PvP alone before they can enter ranked is daunting. I'd like to see this game grow with the Steam launch, and I think this small change could benefit everyone.

TL;DR rank 20 is an unnecessarily big barrier of entry, 15 might be more reasonable.

its to force cheaters away mate, and honestly its fine IMO.I had no issues "grinding" my rank 20, they should take that time to learn what pvp is about, and not send bunch of newbs that dont even know maps into the wild and have them quit the game cuz gold burn guard "1shot" them with their endless burning.

[Morvran.8265]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Morvran.8265" said:So right now new players must first reach rank 20 in PvP before they can queue for ranked. The Steam release is fast approaching, and I think this requirement should be reduced to 15. Here's why.

Rank 15 should take the average new player about 20 hours of grind as is.

Rank 20 is more like 35-40 hours of nonstop PvP grind. I think that's way too big of a barrier of entry for a new player interested in competitive.

Yes, you may say that new players have no place in ranked and you are right. A barrier

should

exist. But let's be honest, if they were to go up against someone out of their league who has 1k or so hours in the game, it wouldn't matter if they had 20 hours of experience or 40. In terms of player skill the difference between rank 15 and 20 is meaningless.

It's the division system's job to sort players into the appropriate division anyway. More people in ranked -> lower Q times and better matchmaking -> happy new players.

I firmly believe that they'd have a better experience in ranked than in unranked, and the fact that they have to put about

2 days of gametime

into PvP alone before they can enter ranked is daunting. I'd like to see this game grow with the Steam launch, and I think this small change could benefit everyone.

TL;DR

rank 20 is an unnecessarily big barrier of entry, 15 might be more reasonable.

its to force cheaters away mate, and honestly its fine IMO.I had no issues "grinding" my rank 20, they should take that time to learn what pvp is about, and not send bunch of newbs that dont even know maps into the wild and have them quit the game cuz gold burn guard "1shot" them with their endless burning.

As I've said - rank 15 or 20, literally makes no difference in terms of skill. If you get oneshot by something at 15 you will get oneshot by it at 20.

If you want people to have a clue about PvP, let them do ranked.. they won't know before that, because they can't track their skill level. Not even at rank 100.

And nothing's stopping them from going back to unranked if they want.

I'm not buying the cheater/bot arguement. For bots that grind 24/7 for months, 24 hours make no difference. For real players it does, especially new ones.

[QuirkyDM.2351]

15 may be as good as 20, I don't know about that. I'm just a starter myself- just shy of rank 14. But that's only taken 26 matches. Maybe it slows down as I continue up the ranks, but hitting rank 15 is hardly 20 hours of grind. More like 5. Even if getting to 20 is another 5, that's hardly an impediment. It'll take most people longer to get through Core Tyria story mode. It's only a grind if the matches are boring, but my experience so far is they're fun, so I'm not in need of any faster progression.

[RedAvenged.5217]

I hate the idea of baseline rank requirements for entering ranked. I’d rather they just reduce it to just calibration matches, sort of a placement before your first placement. A more rigorous placement system will prevent ppl from automatically starting their rating at global average which is what it is rn. Even new players after rank 20 are ezily at average which is annoying but tldr- getting rank 20 sucks, I’d rather do ranked right away

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"RedAvenged.5217" said:I hate the idea of baseline rank requirements for entering ranked. I’d rather they just reduce it to just calibration matches, sort of a placement before your first placement. A more rigorous placement system will prevent ppl from automatically starting their rating at global average which is what it is rn. Even new players after rank 20 are ezily at average which is annoying but tldr- getting rank 20 sucks, I’d rather do ranked right away

its required, its not only made so new players wont troll ranked. but more so to force hackers to "waste" time after they get banned, and discourage people from making alt accounts.leveling one acc to 20 is nonissue as @QuirkyDM.2351 said. when you start first thing you worry about is having fun and not tryharding, and thats fine.But it stops ME from making new acc to play on, and thats a good thing.

[Raizel.1839]

That limit should be increased insted!

[Fueki.4753]

Another thread trying to tie the $team release with their own wishes?I would have taken you more serious without that tie in.

Since both ranked and unranked are practically the same clown show, I don't see a reason to have any barrier.Ranked hasn't been a competitive mode for at least five years.

[megilandil.7506]

@Morvran.8265 said:So right now new players must first reach rank 20 in PvP before they can queue for ranked. The Steam release is fast approaching, and I think this requirement should be reduced to 15. Here's why.

Rank 15 should take the average new player about 20 hours of grind as is.

Rank 20 is more like 35-40 hours of nonstop PvP grind. I think that's way too big of a barrier of entry for a new player interested in competitive.

Yes, you may say that new players have no place in ranked and you are right. A barrier should exist. But let's be honest, if they were to go up against someone out of their league who has 1k or so hours in the game, it wouldn't matter if they had 20 hours of experience or 40. In terms of player skill the difference between rank 15 and 20 is meaningless.

It's the division system's job to sort players into the appropriate division anyway. More people in ranked -> lower Q times and better matchmaking -> happy new players.

I firmly believe that they'd have a better experience in ranked than in unranked, and the fact that they have to put about 2 days of gametime into PvP alone before they can enter ranked is daunting. I'd like to see this game grow with the Steam launch, and I think this small change could benefit everyone.

TL;DR rank 20 is an unnecessarily big barrier of entry, 15 might be more reasonable.

never, the entrance rank need to be increased to 40 or even to 80 to prevent the cicle of infinite bots/trols in ftp acounts

[Ayrilana.1396]

If they’re taking that long then they’re better off farming custom arena wins. It’ll take roughly 12.5 hours that route.

To be honest, I believe that the estimated time the OP is giving is grossly exaggerated.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:To be honest, I believe that the estimated time the OP is giving is grossly exaggerated.

Very. If you go on https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Rank you can see that it takes ~54k rank points to get to level 20.At 1.5k per win, 500 per loss(1k average) doing back to back Unranked games to get rank 20 would only take ~13.5 hours maybe more, maybe less. Assuming most games last about 10 minutes and the players spend 5 more in queue.

Getting Rank 15 would take about ~11.5 hours.So you're looking at a ~2 hour-ish difference. If its true that you earn even more in custom arenas, maybe even less. Nowhere close to 40 or even 30 hours.

Overall kind of a trifling issue if you ask me. Plus like @Leonidrex.5649 was saying it's 13.5 hours that potential cheaters, bots, and alters can't play Ranked with you. As small and trivial as that is, it is at least something to keep them in check.

That dev-time would be much better spent fixing some of Ranked's problems that are likely to make the majority of those new steam peoples quit shortly after unlocking it regardless of how long it takes them to do so.

[Avatar.3568]

They should reduce it and starter just should start with 900 rating and do placements, no one would care if most of them land in bronze or silver because that's normal in games with ranked, make ranked open for lvl 10, filling up the queues would fill up my heart and maybe we get even matches one Day

[Khalisto.5780]

What

I reach lvl 20 on a free account a few weeks ago, like it was said above it takes about 12.5 hours. I honestly dont know where you getting those numbers from

[Kimi.1043]

Y'all are so dumb. You really think Quick Match is a haven for new players where they won't be subjugated to the horrors of high level play. Nice high level players are playing ranked, but the toxic ones are all in Quick Play! There's nothing that will have new players running for the hills faster than 20 ranks of horrible experience. They'll quit after 5. Remove it all together and let them rank into 900 rating so they can pair with similar ranked boys. You want this kitten gamemode to not die? You want (PvE Only) to end? Remove the stupid gate keeping and pairing new players against high rated toxic players.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

6 hours ago, Kimi.1043 said:

Y'all are so dumb. You really think Quick Match is a haven for new players where they won't be subjugated to the horrors of high level play. Nice high level players are playing ranked, but the toxic ones are all in Quick Play! There's nothing that will have new players running for the hills faster than 20 ranks of horrible experience. They'll quit after 5. Remove it all together and let them rank into 900 rating so they can pair with similar ranked boys. You want this kitten gamemode to not die? You want (PvE Only) to end? Remove the stupid gate keeping and pairing new players against high rated toxic players.

No offense but these are words being spoken by someone who has absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Ranked is FAR more toxic than Unranked.

On 10/6/2020 at 11:04 AM, Morvran.8265 said:

So right now new players must first reach rank 20 in PvP before they can queue for ranked. The Steam release is fast approaching, and I think this requirement should be reduced to 15. Here's why.

 

I firmly believe that they'd have a better experience in ranked than in unranked,

Um no. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Being made to play to rank 20 before joining Ranked is an important cultivation factor for the community's population actually. This allows players time to grow, adapt, and actually appreciate the mechanics & depth of the game first, before they go to have their patience with the game tested in Ranked.

The newer a player is when they join Ranked, the higher the chances are they will receive such discouragement from the players around them that they'll want to walk away from the scene. The better an idea the player has of the game when they start ranked, they will receive less discouragement, maybe even some head nods from other players, and there are much higher chances that they will want to stick around because it will be more fun this way.

Essentially this is the difference between Unrank & Rank:

1. In Unranked a player can run any form of weird build, test it, play it, have fun with it, be bad while learning, and no one really cares about what they are doing. At the worst they may develop some casual light hearted rivalries or have some guy be like "lol git gud kid". At best they may find someone willing to slide them some builds and help them learn. In Unranked they can team up with new players in 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 man teams, get to know each other, and even a string of losses doesn't give anyone reason to be upset about anything. For example, I often queue Unranked with new guys for the purpose of helping them identify what they need to be doing better. I cannot do this in Ranked without hurting myself. In other words, in Unranked there are veterans teaching people. In Ranked, veterans are just focused on winning.
2. In Ranked, if a player is not running meta or not good enough to make a non-meta work, or even if they run meta and are just bad on it, if they don't understand their job role or are just bad at it, they get their balls busted off. Actually I don't even know if "ball busting" is the right term for it, more like direct hate thrown at the new players. People send like actual hate mail to these players when they feel they lost a match due to that player. I mean it's abrasive in GW2 man. If a player does anything wrong at all in a match, the players in the game make them feel like they shouldn't be there or they don't want them here in this community or that they are human garbage not worth being treated with a shred of decency. I mean it's discouraging man, if you actually pay attention to the kinds of things said to new players in Ranked. This is not a good initial experience for new players to be experiencing.

Again, new players just need to stay in Unranked for awhile and figure out what's going on. Rank 20 is in my opinion already a very bare minimal gate set before entering Ranked. It's arguable that we would actually have more players in the game if it were turned up to 30 or 40, due to that cultivation factor I mentioned.

And about time required to actually hit rank 20, well this all depends on how often a player is winning or losing. Players get a lot more glory rank for actually winning matches. Whenever I've made new alt accounts, it generally takes me maybe 2 days of 5-6 hour sessions each, to hit rank 20. This is already a ridiculously small amount of time to spend in Unranked.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Gibson.4036]

@Trevor Boyer.6524that’s not my experience at all. My experience in unranked was that it was far more toxic than ranked.

Add to that the fact that newbies will be facing far more 5-man coordinated teams in unranked, and the 20 levels before ranked becomes an very unpleasant barrier to entry.

[Swagg.9236]

There really shouldn't be a prerequisite at all.  GW2 PvP isn't difficult; only esoteric.  I bet less than 5 in 10 people actually stomach this game's PvP for more than 30 hours straight and come out the other end thinking that adding an arbitrary rank number is going to validate any more playtime.  Odds are most people will just drop it.

[Bazsi.2734]

Necro-ing threads like this... I fully support. Now we get to PvP on the forums aswell! I say increase the rank requirement to whatever rank I just passed... 1200! Make ranked an 1200+ only club! You disagree? How dare you, my freedom of speech REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[Master Ketsu.4569]

yes lets make it even easier to create wintrade alts lul

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 8/28/2022 at 9:55 AM, Swagg.9236 said:

There really shouldn't be a prerequisite at all.  GW2 PvP isn't difficult; only esoteric.  I bet less than 5 in 10 people actually stomach this game's PvP for more than 30 hours straight and come out the other end thinking that adding an arbitrary rank number is going to validate any more playtime.  Odds are most people will just drop it.

 

As someone not new to competitive (i.e., play way too much WvW), but new to PvP, I have to agree. 

I'm just about to hit rank 20, which took basically 2 days of 3-4 hour sessions to do, and already I've seen enough toxicity to wonder if ranked will really be any worse. 

Even had a dev team wipe a clearly new team literally 25-500 with the dev jumping up and down hiding (so no one could possibly get that achieve).  Just not a great look for unranked or pvp to anyone that isn't already used to GW2 competitive.

The only reason I personally haven't dropped PvP is the lege backpack seems cheaper than warbringer--just have to get enough rank tickets.  Now I haven't played ranked just yet so I may just straight up leave if somehow it is more toxic than unranked.  

[Guirssane.7082]

Instead of playing normal with a poopy matchmaking they'll play ranked against bot. Choose your poison new players. 😄

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

As someone not new to competitive (i.e., play way too much WvW), but new to PvP, I have to agree. 

I'm just about to hit rank 20, which took basically 2 days of 3-4 hour sessions to do, and already I've seen enough toxicity to wonder if ranked will really be any worse. 

Even had a dev team wipe a clearly new team literally 25-500 with the dev jumping up and down hiding (so no one could possibly get that achieve).  Just not a great look for unranked or pvp to anyone that isn't already used to GW2 competitive.

The only reason I personally haven't dropped PvP is the lege backpack seems cheaper than warbringer--just have to get enough rank tickets.  Now I haven't played ranked just yet so I may just straight up leave if somehow it is more toxic than unranked.  

Almost done with the back item myself. The tickets are the least of it. Winning enough matches on three separate professions, the sheer number of wins you need, the three matches a day for many days… you’ll have enough league tickets long before the last achievement is done.

But my experience is that ranked is far less toxic than unranked.