My honest feelings about map mob difficulty in PoF

[SunTzu.4513]

Yeah its an odd complaint for sure... you need endgame gear for endgame content and he's going into endgame content to get endgame gear, so things is to hard. Which is of course, kitten backwards.

The irony is you can get bis exo armor for an power build really cheap on the TP. The amount of gold which is required is a joke if you compare the overall value of an berserker exo set to the time and activities you can use it for. Aside from T4 fractals and CM you can participate on everything even raids. Also if one is smart and use the stat search on the TP instead of the attribute name berserker one can get it even cheaper. If you go for an yolo condi build it's ridiculus cheap. I used carrion gear on my condi weaver in frac/raid pugs for almost 11 months and got away with it until i changed to berserker fresh air weaver.

I still remember when my guild first went into Arah, half equipped with rares - some being the first rushed 80's in the guild - and not knowing kitten about the dungeon, there where little to no clips on others having done it. We got our kitten handed to us for 2 hours before we gave up because the dungeon was too kitten hard.

Ohh the good 'ol times ^^ I wiped there too many times. Brings back nice memorys. Was playing necro as my first toon long before the condi stacks were revamped... Buildcrafting there was very interresting also no one of my game mates had a clue what we were in for and how things work. But somehow we did it in the end.

[Steve The Cynic.3217]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Steve The Cynic.3217 said:

@"Shikaru.7618" said:Here is something that a lot of the mmos youve mentioned have in common. They all have an easily identifiable gear score or damage score, so when you get a new piece of gear, you can make informed decisions at a glance and know if you're getting an upgrade or downgrade. Gw2 does not really present any of that information to you easily. It is very easy to gear and build your character incorrectly and be completely oblivious that you did so. The difference between the average player and top tier raiders is 10x according to a dev despite having the same tier of gear. Imagine if you magically dealt 10x damage right now. Would you still be struggling with open world? Thats the reality that a lot of us veterans are trying to tell you. Anything thats not a champion or bounty will basically melt in open world. You just need proper builds and proper stat combos on your gear.

OK, but how would you construct such a gear score (SWTOR calls it "Item Rating", for reference) in GW2? Would it have to show bias toward certain stats? If so, why? (I have a Reaper build that's based on

Valkyrie

gear, kitten. With all that Vitality, a stat-biased gear score would probably mark it down, but it's almost indestructible and still delivers substantial damage.) Then again, in most games, the gear score (whatever it's called) is some way short of the full answer, since it almost never identifies gearsets that are weak because of an improper stat mix.

And in general, this thread reminds me of something I said in

another thread

...

Game difficulty should not be set up for the wilfully obtuse.

There is a very wide range of player-skill in any MMORPG, but while general content must take into account the less-skilled players, the players who will not learn how to play (not talking learning disabilities here, but wilful obtuseness) should not be part of that analysis.

if i have to go to another website to find a build, then the game has failed. if they let me get to max level with "wrong "build, then the game has failedif they dont let me play my own build, then there is no point in playing an RPG at all

Sorry for being a little late getting back to this, but what you say here is contradictory, or it is saying that all MMORPGs fail in some way. Either:

• It fails because you have to go to another website to find a build.(1) -- OR --
• It fails because it lets you get to max level with a junk build. -- OR --
• It fails because it doesn't let you get to max level with a junk build.

The second two conditions cover all cases: "it does" and "it does not". Conclusion: all MMORPGs fail.

(1) One might say "well, they are all like that" - sites like Dulfy, Vulkk, etc. for SWTOR, or the multitude of sites that host builds for GW2 can be found for all MMORPGs, even the ones that are dead. There's probably at least one site like that with stuff for Devilian (the only now-shuttered MMORPG that I've actually played) or Wildstar (the other shuttererd MMORPG that I can name off the top of my head).

But in general, you don't have to go to another site for a build. The people who posted the first builds on the first of those sites for GW2 definitely didn't use such a site, because it didn't exist to help them construct those builds.

I go to such sites because I'm lazy about such things and prefer to benefit from the hard work that those people have generously made available, and also because I'd rather play the game than sit there doing the theorycrafting stuff.

[Pockethole.5031]

On 11/22/2020 at 9:22 PM, Pockethole.5031 said:

I had majority of trailblazer stuff, and still got kicked in the kitten. Like holy kitten. Normally I like to do this alone. But what the actual kitterino. It's too much.

TL:DR; Please, make EoD map mobs easier than in PoF. And not as numerous. Thank you.

So I'm the clown that comes back after all this. And I'm the clown that still thinks the same.
I want to remind devs that they shouldn't make EoD mobs in maps so painful. 
I have listed several reasons in the past, it's there in the first post. I don't need to explain myself again (but will do so anyway). And you don't need to either, I agree to disagree if your opinion is different.
But this is what I think, this is what I want. I want a chance to catch a breather without an army of mobs running after me. I want a chance to enjoy the scenery. And that's it. It's not wrong. 
If you like the combat so much, go solo a fractal or whatever you hardcore type people do. You don't need to make the game miserable for the rest of us by being against a more casual approach. 
And if you want the open world to be hard so badly, then go and wear blue gear, kitten. You can't even argue against it. If you want the game to be hard, you go and do this. It doesn't have to be hard for those people who don't like it as hard as you do. 

[Linken.6345]

34 minutes ago, Pockethole.5031 said:

So I'm the clown that comes back after all this. And I'm the clown that still thinks the same.
I want to remind devs that they shouldn't make EoD mobs in maps so painful. 
I have listed several reasons in the past, it's there in the first post. I don't need to explain myself again (but will do so anyway). And you don't need to either, I agree to disagree if your opinion is different.
But this is what I think, this is what I want. I want a chance to catch a breather without an army of mobs running after me. I want a chance to enjoy the scenery. And that's it. It's not wrong. 
If you like the combat so much, go solo a fractal or whatever you hardcore type people do. You don't need to make the game miserable for the rest of us by being against a more casual approach. 
And if you want the open world to be hard so badly, then go and wear blue gear, kitten. You can't even argue against it. If you want the game to be hard, you go and do this. It doesn't have to be hard for those people who don't like it as hard as you do. 

The fact is all maps got spots were you can catch a breather and chances to enjoy the scenery with even base mounts.

You are just miffed that you cant stop anywere you like at any time without risk.

Good for you now with the skyscale you can mount up fly higher and enjoy it anywere.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Linken.6345

[Sobx.1758]

49 minutes ago, Pockethole.5031 said:

So I'm the clown that comes back after all this. And I'm the clown that still thinks the same.
I want to remind devs that they shouldn't make EoD mobs in maps so painful. 
I have listed several reasons in the past, it's there in the first post. I don't need to explain myself again (but will do so anyway). And you don't need to either, I agree to disagree if your opinion is different.
But this is what I think, this is what I want. I want a chance to catch a breather without an army of mobs running after me. I want a chance to enjoy the scenery. And that's it. It's not wrong. 
If you like the combat so much, go solo a fractal or whatever you hardcore type people do. You don't need to make the game miserable for the rest of us by being against a more casual approach. 
And if you want the open world to be hard so badly, then go and wear blue gear, kitten. You can't even argue against it. If you want the game to be hard, you go and do this. It doesn't have to be hard for those people who don't like it as hard as you do. 

Or, alternatively, instead of telling people to "wear blue gear", you could understand and learn the mechanics/environment of the game, so every expansion won't need to be held back to "easy core standards" and can be made interesting by adding on top of already existing content and possibilities instead of repackaging same stuff with different textures.

You can "catch a breather" in a lot of places. Worst case, you can use WPs and afk in cities/camps. You don't want to? Well, that's doesn't seem to be the game's fault, more of the case of you not wanting to use existing possibilties for whatever reason.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[BlueJin.4127]

The aggro range in PoF and LWS4 are so god awful. I only go to these maps when I have to; never for fun. When I do have to be in these maps, I probably ignore the vast majority of gathering nodes, never really interact with the map or explore, and just run past everything because one dismount can lead to a chain of aggros if there are enemies within 900~1200 aggro range.

Edited August 27, 2021 by BlueJin.4127

[Kaizen.3804]

PoF Maps only problem is mob density. In some places, there is ridiculous overlap. The Djinn HP in Crystal Oasis comes to mind; a Hydra, a couple of sand sharks and I think 2 sand lions. And if you're particularly unlucky, a Forged Patrol. Fortunately, it's far more tolerable than Pre-Nerf Orr.

Shudders. For those who weren't here before Orr was nerfed; mob density was far higher and every mob, it's undead mother, and undead pet cat had an entire bar packed with CC skills. So trying to navigate Orr was like playing a game of Ping Pong, only your character was the ball. 

PoF Maps aren't nearly as annoying, and I feel like mob difficulty is less than HoT maps, but harder than Core; so just right.

[AliamRationem.5172]

4 hours ago, Pockethole.5031 said:

So I'm the clown that comes back after all this. And I'm the clown that still thinks the same.
I want to remind devs that they shouldn't make EoD mobs in maps so painful. 
I have listed several reasons in the past, it's there in the first post. I don't need to explain myself again (but will do so anyway). And you don't need to either, I agree to disagree if your opinion is different.
But this is what I think, this is what I want. I want a chance to catch a breather without an army of mobs running after me. I want a chance to enjoy the scenery. And that's it. It's not wrong. 
If you like the combat so much, go solo a fractal or whatever you hardcore type people do. You don't need to make the game miserable for the rest of us by being against a more casual approach. 
And if you want the open world to be hard so badly, then go and wear blue gear, kitten. You can't even argue against it. If you want the game to be hard, you go and do this. It doesn't have to be hard for those people who don't like it as hard as you do. 

 

Have you tried learning to play?

 

In my opinion, expansion mob density and difficulty is fine.  However, I would prefer it if they would tone down the aggro range from PoF/LS4 to HoT levels.

[Rogue.8235]

5 hours ago, Pockethole.5031 said:

So I'm the clown that comes back after all this. And I'm the clown that still thinks the same.
I want to remind devs that they shouldn't make EoD mobs in maps so painful. 
I have listed several reasons in the past, it's there in the first post. I don't need to explain myself again (but will do so anyway). And you don't need to either, I agree to disagree if your opinion is different.
But this is what I think, this is what I want. I want a chance to catch a breather without an army of mobs running after me. I want a chance to enjoy the scenery. And that's it. It's not wrong. 
If you like the combat so much, go solo a fractal or whatever you hardcore type people do. You don't need to make the game miserable for the rest of us by being against a more casual approach. 
And if you want the open world to be hard so badly, then go and wear blue gear, kitten. You can't even argue against it. If you want the game to be hard, you go and do this. It doesn't have to be hard for those people who don't like it as hard as you do. 

I'm of the opinion that the difficulty is good because it contributes to the atmosphere of desperation and the sheer hostility of the jungle.  I will admit that I have yet to complete a HoT map, but have 100% on all others.

[Algreg.3629]

8 hours ago, Pockethole.5031 said:

So I'm the clown that comes back after all this. And I'm the clown that still thinks the same.
 

seems about right

 

[Gehenna.3625]

7 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Have you tried learning to play?

First of all, it always amazes me how much people underrate what they can do. I mean, do you really think so little of yourself that anyone can make it up to your level? You may not be able to fathom this but has it ever occurred to you that what you think is so easy to learn, may not be so easy for others or may not be the interest of others? 

 

Secondly, for me the mobs aren't too hard as such, but they are very annoying because of the aggro range and respawn rates, particularly in PoF. I do just want to look around at times to look around and enjoy the scenery. That's not really possible in PoF maps. At least in HoT you could still find places easily (because of the height differences), but PoF it's much harder to find these spots. 

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

First of all, it always amazes me how much people underrate what they can do. I mean, do you really think so little of yourself that anyone can make it up to your level? You may not be able to fathom this but has it ever occurred to you that what you think is so easy to learn, may not be so easy for others or may not be the interest of others? 

 

Secondly, for me the mobs aren't too hard as such, but they are very annoying because of the aggro range and respawn rates, particularly in PoF. I do just want to look around at times to look around and enjoy the scenery. That's not really possible in PoF maps. At least in HoT you could still find places easily (because of the height differences), but PoF it's much harder to find these spots. 

 

Relax.  I only said it because the guy's "opinion" was to tell everyone else how they need to play in order to accommodate his preferences.  It seemed the appropriate response in that context.

 

Also, like I said, I agree that the aggro range is annoying and I wish they would change it to HoT levels, which would help people who also feel it is too difficult.

[Gehenna.3625]

4 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

 

Relax.  I only said it because the guy's "opinion" was to tell everyone else how they need to play in order to accommodate his preferences.  It seemed the appropriate response in that context.

Not sure why you're telling me to relax. I'm a bit confused about that, but I'll put that down to my writing style then. So if I understand you correctly your response was a "two wrongs do make a right" type of response or "fighting fire with fire" if you will?

 

I wouldn't think that engenders the right type of reactions, but ok I guess I understand your meaning now.

[ugrakarma.9416]

POF problem inst diffuclt, but aggro range is a game breaker.

 

Some few LS4 maps, had this too.

 

On DragonFall the wurms launch a projectile which seems 1500+range....

 

People should understand that aggro range inst a issue of Leanr to play, is just annoyance for sake of annoyance.

 

"but theres mounts"

 

No, u cant mount while in combat, being perma in combat is another irritating issue...

Edited August 28, 2021 by ugrakarma.9416

[Gehenna.3625]

1 minute ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

On DragonFall the wurms launch a projectile which seems 1500+range....

White Mantle mobs (particularly Knights) seem to have a range of 1500+ as well...with a hammer

[Fipmip.7219]

imo the damage and the abilities of the mobs are fine but the aggro range is not. There's really no gameplay reason to make open world traversal so annoying. I also think the mob density breaks immersion since the mob placement is a very archaic, 'place mobs equidistantly over this area' sort of design. I'd like to see Anet cluster mobs together in small nooks and crannies and make small territories for mobs, like a family of boars in a forest, or a couple of sand eels patrolling the dunes, rather than try to completely paint the map with aggro radii. It's not like these mobs are meant to be farmed anyway, so why put so many resources into 100+ mobs roaming the map as much as possible? just limit dense mob packs to places like enemy camps and meta events.

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Not sure why you're telling me to relax. I'm a bit confused about that, but I'll put that down to my writing style then. So if I understand you correctly your response was a "two wrongs do make a right" type of response or "fighting fire with fire" if you will?

 

I wouldn't think that engenders the right type of reactions, but ok I guess I understand your meaning now.

 

I guess I need to translate.  My purpose with that particular comment was to poke fun at the guy who is demanding everyone else and the very game itself change to suit his own preferences.  Convincing him to see things my way was not part of the plan, particularly considering what I want and what he wants happen to be in agreement.  Once again, reducing aggro range to HoT levels would help any player who has issues with difficulty and mob density.

 

So, yeah, relax.  There's nothing to argue about here.

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

POF problem inst diffuclt, but aggro range is a game breaker.

 

Some few LS4 maps, had this too.

 

On DragonFall the wurms launch a projectile which seems 1500+range....

 

People should understand that aggro range inst a issue of Leanr to play, is just annoyance for sake of annoyance.

 

"but theres mounts"

 

No, u cant mount while in combat, being perma in combat is another irritating issue...

 

^This.  Does anyone think the undead area in Dragonfall is challenging because of the trash?  Or is it just annoying because the terrain is not easily traversable without mounts while the enemies keep you in combat forever so you can't mount?  I'm going to go with this is intentionally designed to be irritating.  Just...why?

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

No, u cant mount while in combat, being perma in combat is another irritating issue...

How do you manage to be "perma in combat"? At which spots, in what situations exactly?

[Gehenna.3625]

5 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

 

I guess I need to translate.  My purpose with that particular comment was to poke fun at the guy who is demanding everyone else and the very game itself change to suit his own preferences.  Convincing him to see things my way was not part of the plan, particularly considering what I want and what he wants happen to be in agreement.  Once again, reducing aggro range to HoT levels would help any player who has issues with difficulty and mob density.

 

So, yeah, relax.  There's nothing to argue about here.

I guess I also need to translate. I am relaxed, but curious. I'm not arguing with you either, just trying to ascertain what you meant...that's clear now 🙂

[Tatwi.3562]

On 11/22/2020 at 2:46 PM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

PoF mob density is no worse than HoT. However, the aggro range on many PoF/LS4 mobs is far longer. The overall effect is that moving around without being harassed by every mob within a square mile of your position is significantly more difficult in these later maps. Personally, I can't stand it. I find it really irritating and wish they'd reduce the aggro range to the way it was in HoT.

Absolutely!

 

Developers need to learn the difference between challenge and tedium. For me the problem isn't that the mobs are challenging, rather the problem is dealing with them is an annoying waste of time, because I am trying to do something else at the time and the rewards for taking the time to kill the mobs aren't worth the time taken. When I want to fight stuff, I know where to go get that done.

 

To this day, Gendarran Fields is what I consider to the be best zone in the game. Plenty of challenges for its level, lots of variety, decent events, but enough open/quiet space that one can actually take the time to enjoy the setting. This map and ones like it are what made me buy the game and love it.

 

The PoF maps would be amazing if they simply removed some of the mobs and dramatically reduced the agro radius of the remaining mobs.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Tatwi.3562

[Pockethole.5031]

9 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

 

My purpose with that particular comment was to poke fun at the guy who is demanding everyone else and the very game itself change to suit his own preferences. 

Her, but anyway.
I am NOT demanding everyone to play how they want.
I'm offering a SOLUTION to play how they want, should the mob difficulty be lowered.
Your tight kitten just read it as offensive because I offered my criticism towards your religion that is the game. Don't take it personally, because it has absolutely nothing to do with your being. And for the (hopefully) last time I know how to play.

Please note that it doesn't work the other way around: since it's more difficult to just breathe and exist in the desert with all the mobs, because everything is annoying (or hard, these words have same meaning to me in this context) a casual player is forced to be hardcore. While hardcore players are like "yay, combat, I want to gather some wood and I need to kill 5 mobs from around it, hell yes I love this torture!" that means casual players... are simply not enjoying the same experience.
Why is that so hard to understand?
If it was easier to do all that, the hc players could increase the difficulty of it - should they wish so - by wearing blue gear. But there is no easy way out for casual players to make the experience more enjoyable as things are.
Now do you get it? This isn't fair for all of the playerbase. And you don't have to defend Anet's choices or whatever. I'm just offering my kittening feedback, and it's up to them if they want to take it. 

I would be so glad if they could implement open world difficulty choice system. Nobody would need to get their pants in a twist about this subject ever again, granted the system would work flawlessly.

And again. I know how to play. You can keep saying it, if you want to attempt annoying me, but I'm still as good player as I will ever be. I look at other people's builds (yes, open world), I also make my own, and all I'm missing is ascended gear, griffon, skyscale and beetle. And even if I did get all that, it wouldn't make the mobs much less annoying. The desert maps will still feel repulsive.
And at this point I start a dialog with imaginary opponent.
"Then the problem is you"
No, there are clearly other people who take issue with mob density/aggro range. The overall annoyance of it. 


If you refuse to give more casual playerbase their own space, then you're ignorant, or gatekeeper, or even toxic. I guess it depends on the person who thinks casual players don't matter.

And if you didn't read anything I wrote, then you're just fighting here for the sake of itself. And I'm not here for that reason.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Pockethole.5031

[Jilora.9524]

3 minutes ago, Pockethole.5031 said:

Her, but anyway.
I am NOT demanding everyone to play how they want.
I'm offering a SOLUTION to play how they want, should the mob difficulty be lowered.
Your tight kitten just read it as offensive because I offered my criticism towards your religion that is the game. Don't take it personally, because it has absolutely nothing to do with your being. And for the (hopefully) last time I know how to play.

Please note that it doesn't work the other way around: since it's more difficult to just breathe and exist in the desert with all the mobs, because everything is annoying (or hard, these words have same meaning to me in this context) a casual player is forced to be hardcore. While hardcore players are like "yay, combat, I want to gather some wood and I need to kill 5 mobs from around it, hell yes I love this torture!" that means casual players... are simply not enjoying the same experience.
Why is that so hard to understand?
If it was easier to do all that, the hc players could increase the difficulty of it - should they wish so - by wearing blue gear. But there is no easy way out for casual players to make the experience more enjoyable as things are.
Now do you get it? This isn't fair for all of the playerbase. And you don't have to defend Anet's choices or whatever. I'm just offering my kittening feedback, and it's up to them if they want to take it. 

I would be so glad if they could implement open world difficulty choice system. Nobody would need to get their pants in a twist about this subject ever again, granted the system would work flawlessly.

And again. I know how to play. You can keep saying it, if you want to attempt annoying me, but I'm still as good player as I will ever be. I look at other people's builds (yes, open world), I also make my own, and all I'm missing is ascended gear, griffon, skyscale and beetle. And even if I did get all that, it wouldn't make the mobs much less annoying. The desert maps will still feel repulsive.
And at this point I start a dialog with imaginary opponent.
"Then the problem is you"
No, there are clearly other people who take issue with mob density/aggro range. The overall annoyance of it. 


If you refuse to give more casual playerbase their own space, then you're ignorant, or gatekeeper, or even toxic. I guess it depends on the person who thinks casual players don't matter.

And if you didn't read anything I wrote, then you're just fighting here for the sake of itself. And I'm not here for that reason. Bye.

I mean you did necro your own thread to get annoyed by the same dudes that probably annoyed you the first time. I find PoF annoying too and 8 dudes in here don't and already a couple like sobx came running back with the "give examples of instances where this happened" like we document every time that jacaranda kds us we get up run and almost get out of combat only for another of the lil punks to pop up and kd us again. Don't let them get you upset again cuz their minds and responses ain't changing.

[Sobx.1758]

14 minutes ago, Jilora.9524 said:

I mean you did necro your own thread to get annoyed by the same dudes that probably annoyed you the first time. I find PoF annoying too and 8 dudes in here don't and already a couple like sobx came running back with the "give examples of instances where this happened" like we document every time that jacaranda kds us we get up run and almost get out of combat only for another of the lil punks to pop up and kd us again. Don't let them get you upset again cuz their minds and responses ain't changing.

Apparently neither does yours or his, so what's your point here? As you said, he necroed his thread to repeat what he already said last time, so I don't see how me repeating the same thing is any more out of place than his recent posts are. And you see how you "came running back" with the old "I don't know, jacaranda" here as well, right? 😄

At least me asking that question means I'm trying to understand and replicate the problem, but somehow I can't, because without change there are no answers.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Jilora.9524]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Apparently neither does yours or his, so what's your point here? As you said, he necroed his thread to repeat what he already said last time, so I don't see how me repeating the same thing is any more out of place than his recent posts are. And you see how you "came running back" with the old "I don't know, jacaranda" here as well, right? 😄

Oh I need to explain the point to you. The point was after seeing him/her possibly getting upset to not let the same guys upset them again since it was kinda their fault for bringing this thread back from the dead. 

And the dude you asked for examples from when he was talking about perm in combat was dragonfall which I knew exactly what he meant. The undead sections aggro range of worms archers and fleshreavers. It's also why I had the 1000 kill achieve from that section and only about 500 kills from the other 2 sections and if you played that map you wouldn't have to ask him to explain how some might find that section more annoying nor I to explain a pretty basic paragraph just cause I name dropped you from memory of how hard you were on the opposite side of the op.