[Suggestion] A Proper Trading System Between Players

[Shirlias.8104]

You can't.You can seno it by mail and ask for money, but if they scam you the item is Loss, though the scammer should be banned.

They should have removed mail as Well in order to destro gold Sellers and multi account.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

@Shirlias.8104 said:You can't.You can seno it by mail and ask for money, but if they scam you the item is Loss, though the scammer should be banned.

They should have removed mail as Well in order to destro gold Sellers and multi account.

That's what I'm getting at.

Stuff like:

@Astralporing.1957 said:Your suggestion has already been fulfilled. It's called Trading Post. It's both very safe, and offers a lot of QoL options that a direct trading system like, for example, in GW1 simply did not have.(and remember, the gw1 system was both prone to scams, and a source of massive channel spam - both things we just don't want in GW2. It also encouraged veteran traders to take advantage of new players - which is also not a good thing)

It's likely, that what you're really asking about is a way for you to circumvent the TP tax, not a "better" trading system. Which is extremely unlikely to happen.

With friends I have no problem with this.Gave friends dyes and ectoplasms and so on and so forth they need no problem and vice versa to me. The problem though is the trading post don't allow actual "trading" going on. It's just "buying and selling".Once again, Auction House. You're not trading anything in the trading post. Actual trading would not have any fees involved as well.

[Seera.5916]

@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:Can someone tell me how to trade with the trading post?As I'm going to assume for example if someone wanted to give me Shadow Abyss Dye for let's say Bloody Red Dye... I don't know how to go about doing that with the trading post.Because those that's mentioning and defending the trading post, all I see is that it's literally what other MMOs call as an AH (Auction House).

You don't. Not directly. The Trading Post ensures that EVERYONE gets the market price for items. Right now, Shadow Abyss Dye is about 100 gold more expensive than Bloody Red Dye. You'd sell your Bloody Red Dye to some random person and take the gold you get + about 100 of your own gold and buy Shadow Abyss Dye. The other person would sell their Shadow Abyss Dye and use the gold from that to buy Bloody Red Dye and they'd have about 100 gold left over.

[Shirlias.8104]

Think he means that you can make a post on reddit in order to trade with Strangers...But ofc it's up to you to trust em or not.

I could decide to sell through mail a legendary to Another player, yeah... in order to exploit the tp System... But I could get scammed and the item could be lost.

Though the scammer will be banned.I mean, knowing the AP of your trader could decide if the trade is Worth item or not.

[Seera.5916]

@Shirlias.8104 said:Think he means that you can make a post on reddit in order to trade with Strangers...But ofc it's up to you to trust em or not.

I could decide to sell through mail a legendary to Another player, yeah... in order to exploit the tp System... But I could get scammed and the item could be lost.

Though the scammer will be banned.I mean, knowing the AP of your trader could decide if the trade is Worth item or not.

AP wouldn't be enough to let me know if someone was trustworthy or not. But that's just me.

I'd have to be real life friends with someone in order to trade with them anything of any real value. Otherwise, I'd only be willing to trade up to what I would be willing to delete.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:I'm sorry but being scammed with P2P trading is a matter of natural selection rather than actual design flaw. Any trade you make, whether in game or RL should be made with due care.

That's an effective argument against an in-game P2P system: if it's up to each player to take care, the game need not provide any semblance of protection at all.

Not at all, it's completely the opposite - if one person cannot be trusted by themselves to make a trade then that is their own fault and not the system.Exactly. So those wishing to trade do not

need

an in-game P2P system. They can use in-game mail and take their chances. Let the best traders survive. (And there are many who trade outside the TP successfully.)

And also, I hope we're not talking about "I sold this item for cheap, I got scammed", because that's not scamming.Well, it depends how that occurred. Did the buyer simply misunderstand what they were selling? OK, that is the buyer's fault for not doing their research. (Although it wouldn't happen if they sold on the TP, because that's the current market rate.) On the other hand, did the seller say something misleading about the use for the item? Then that's a type of scamming and happens all the time in gaming.

Scamming within gaming is defined as something like "item swapping" on the last second.Intentionally being deceived that an item is worth less than it is.The person being told that he'll pay you after if you trade firstThere are all sorts of scamming in gaming, including item substitution, item swapping, misleading players, and so on. In a truly Darwinian system, there are no protections. We can already achieve that with in-game mail.

Most of these "scamming" situations can be prevented by actions of the player, which definitely does not go against P2P trading - as I said previously, if you are selling/buying items in RL or in a game, you should pay due care.This isn't the real world. We have the TP; I haven't seen anyone offer a reason why that isn't sufficient for most players. For the few who feel the need to go outside the TP, there's already in-game mail.

---

ANet has stated repeatedly that they like the protections offered by the TP and they like the fact that no one can get less than market price, because the TP is the universal market. Those wishing ANet to undermine their own system need to come up with something strong than, "I want it in the game."

[Shirlias.8104]

@Seera.5916 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:Think he means that you can make a post on reddit in order to trade with Strangers...But ofc it's up to you to trust em or not.

I could decide to sell through mail a legendary to Another player, yeah... in order to exploit the tp System... But I could get scammed and the item could be lost.

Though the scammer will be banned.I mean, knowing the AP of your trader could decide if the trade is Worth item or not.

AP wouldn't be enough to let me know if someone was trustworthy or not. But that's just me.

I'd have to be real life friends with someone in order to trade with them anything of any real value. Otherwise, I'd only be willing to trade up to what I would be willing to delete.

But if trading and scamming would mean to lose your account, the chances would be really Low.

Unless maybe someone who's quitting.

Btw I can understand the doubts about.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

If it's a friend/trusted player, there's the Mail system. If it's not a friend/trusted player, then there would be spam in chat/LFG. That alone is enough to keep player-to-player trading out of the game.

[keyokku.5412]

Yeah I agree that there is absolutely no need and no hole to be filled by a P2P system. Like mentioned already, if a friend or guildie, use mail, trust is there. If not, then TP fulfills the role. I don't see why you must be a pro to use it. Just sell it to someone who has placed an order or list it according to what others are selling it for if you don't know how to play the market. I don't know much about economy either and that's about what I stick with. Why must you bypass the listing fee/insurance? What's the problem?

[Seera.5916]

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Seera.5916 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:Think he means that you can make a post on reddit in order to trade with Strangers...But ofc it's up to you to trust em or not.

I could decide to sell through mail a legendary to Another player, yeah... in order to exploit the tp System... But I could get scammed and the item could be lost.

Though the scammer will be banned.I mean, knowing the AP of your trader could decide if the trade is Worth item or not.

AP wouldn't be enough to let me know if someone was trustworthy or not. But that's just me.

I'd have to be real life friends with someone in order to trade with them anything of any real value. Otherwise, I'd only be willing to trade up to what I would be willing to delete.

But if trading and scamming would mean to lose your account, the chances would be really Low.

Unless maybe someone who's quitting.

Btw I can understand the doubts about.

And people risk their accounts by using unauthorized macros even with high AP. Players break all kinds of rules with high AP - inappropriate names, inappropriate language in the chat, etc. Amount of AP a player has is not a fail safe way to determine if a player is safe to trade with.

[Daffan.8924]

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:

@Seera.5916 said:No matter how ANet did it, player to player trading would result in scams. And ANet has come out many times on the old forums to say they have no plans on adding player to player transactions like they did in GW1.

Just because other MMO's have it, doesn't mean GW2 should have it.

Pros of person to person trade:

• No listing fees
• You get your items immediately, no need to go to a trading post

Cons of person to person trade:

• Chance of being scammed is always present no matter what ANet does.
• Loss of listing fees means inflation has one fewer check as fewer people use the gold sink that is the trading post listing fees.
• Spamming of map chat and/or LFG for people looking to trade person to person.

To me, the cons outweigh the benefits.

The trading post is also player to player trading. It just utilizes a middleman who charges a fee to keep sellers and buyers anonymous. It also allows for the exchange of goods between the EU and NA servers.

I'm sorry but being scammed with P2P trading is a matter of natural selection rather than actual design flaw. Any trade you make, whether in game or RL should be made with due care.

Agreed.

[Shirlias.8104]

@Seera.5916 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Seera.5916 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:Think he means that you can make a post on reddit in order to trade with Strangers...But ofc it's up to you to trust em or not.

I could decide to sell through mail a legendary to Another player, yeah... in order to exploit the tp System... But I could get scammed and the item could be lost.

Though the scammer will be banned.I mean, knowing the AP of your trader could decide if the trade is Worth item or not.

AP wouldn't be enough to let me know if someone was trustworthy or not. But that's just me.

I'd have to be real life friends with someone in order to trade with them anything of any real value. Otherwise, I'd only be willing to trade up to what I would be willing to delete.

But if trading and scamming would mean to lose your account, the chances would be really Low.

Unless maybe someone who's quitting.

Btw I can understand the doubts about.

And people risk their accounts by using unauthorized macros even with high AP. Players break all kinds of rules with high AP - inappropriate names, inappropriate language in the chat, etc. Amount of AP a player has is not a fail safe way to determine if a player is safe to trade with.

Nah it's different.If you scam and i provide proof of it you are 100% banned.

The case you are talking about sees a player who play with macro and

1. He must be spotted and reported
2. He must be caught in the actually

I see no way to avoid a scam, but I see many ways to avoid being caught with a illegale macro.

[Seera.5916]

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Seera.5916 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:

@Seera.5916 said:

@Shirlias.8104 said:Think he means that you can make a post on reddit in order to trade with Strangers...But ofc it's up to you to trust em or not.

I could decide to sell through mail a legendary to Another player, yeah... in order to exploit the tp System... But I could get scammed and the item could be lost.

Though the scammer will be banned.I mean, knowing the AP of your trader could decide if the trade is Worth item or not.

AP wouldn't be enough to let me know if someone was trustworthy or not. But that's just me.

I'd have to be real life friends with someone in order to trade with them anything of any real value. Otherwise, I'd only be willing to trade up to what I would be willing to delete.

But if trading and scamming would mean to lose your account, the chances would be really Low.

Unless maybe someone who's quitting.

Btw I can understand the doubts about.

And people risk their accounts by using unauthorized macros even with high AP. Players break all kinds of rules with high AP - inappropriate names, inappropriate language in the chat, etc. Amount of AP a player has is not a fail safe way to determine if a player is safe to trade with.

Nah it's different.If you scam and i provide proof of it you are 100% banned.

The case you are talking about sees a player who play with macro and

1. He must be spotted and reported
2. He must be caught in the actually

I see no way to avoid a scam, but I see many ways to avoid being caught with a illegale macro.

True, but that wasn't my point. My point was that players with high AP still do things that can get their account banned, therefore AP levels are not a good judgement on whether or not a player is willing to risk their account or not.

[Cyprien.4208]

I strongly dislike the idea of trading to player to player. It's not needed and it's one of the old mmo mechanics that needs to die. The trading post provides the safest way of trading between players as well doesn't have any map, say, or other spam listed. When most people think of trading to another player they think more less of giving that item away and the mail has that covered.

If you don't think high leveled account players don't cheat or scam you must only play single player games as even in stuff like tournaments people can get banned on the spot. If people think they can get away with something they will try to cheat the system. Yes, players should be more aware of what they are buying however sadly people aren't. It's not a bad thing to help players from people or places that want to get out the extra buck from you. Sure my friend could bought heart of thorns for $30 however I got him a better deal for only $12.

[NuhDah.9812]

I was at some point wandering if Anet have any gold information on how much in-game currency the Black Lion Trading Company makes out of the TP a year, and since launch. Those would be interesting statistics to to see. How much gold was lost by the community only for trading stuff? The guys from the Black Lion Trading Company must by filthy rich I guess, lol.

I don't mind the fact there is a fee attached to the trading process on the TP, but I feel it's a bit too high sometimes, especially on how it scales. I mean I was and would still be right now in a situation I wouldn't be able to sell something around 1000 gold if somehow luck strikes and I get a hold of something that valuable. It's a bit unfair to not be allowed to make money if you don't own at that point. The expanse is like this: 5% of the price of the item(s) for just posting it (that means you can't post something that amounts in 1000 gold if you don't own at least 50 gold and even then you'll need to be at 0 gold until someone buys your item) and after the transaction is complete you only get 90% of the price you posted (900 gold form that 1000 example, practically losing 100, lets say that would be double of the amount you previously had in the 50 gold example, meaning actually tones of money). In total it's a 15% fee, which amounts in 150 gold if the price of the transaction you post is 1000 gold. So you get 850 gold of the 1000 you were bargaining for if you use the TP.

I don't mind the TP being a gold sink, but it's pretty sad that if you want to make money for just a specific item, like a legendary peace of it's not allowing you to use the trading cost money for something useful to you like the construction of that legendary piece of gear. It feels that it has no competitions, there is no reliable alternative to it, competition between them and other Trading Company is not existent, there are no vouchers, incentives to reduce the transaction tax, and really I doubt irl the taxes are so high for the usual transactions and the economy is still working... actually I guess value-added tax exists in every economy, but then again this in-game gold tax just goes to waste, where the devs use the player real money as an additional tax, if I may word it like this, to improve the game's infrastructure...

I might be wrong in my view, but I'm curious what other people think about it.

[mtpelion.4562]

If you don't have the cash up front to make a sell listing for an expensive item, you can always use the sell it now option to satisfy a buy order.

[TheGrimm.5624]

Add a COD element to the mail system and done. Seen plenty of other games use this system for direct trading without issues.

[Neutra.6857]

@Daffan.8924 said:

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:

@Seera.5916 said:No matter how ANet did it, player to player trading would result in scams. And ANet has come out many times on the old forums to say they have no plans on adding player to player transactions like they did in GW1.

Just because other MMO's have it, doesn't mean GW2 should have it.

Pros of person to person trade:

• No listing fees
• You get your items immediately, no need to go to a trading post

Cons of person to person trade:

• Chance of being scammed is always present no matter what ANet does.
• Loss of listing fees means inflation has one fewer check as fewer people use the gold sink that is the trading post listing fees.
• Spamming of map chat and/or LFG for people looking to trade person to person.

To me, the cons outweigh the benefits.

The trading post is also player to player trading. It just utilizes a middleman who charges a fee to keep sellers and buyers anonymous. It also allows for the exchange of goods between the EU and NA servers.

I'm sorry but being scammed with P2P trading is a matter of natural selection rather than actual design flaw. Any trade you make, whether in game or RL should be made with due care.

Agreed.

If you want a Darwinian (shudders at the use of that term) system then what you have in GW2 is one. You can use the mail at your own risk, and don't need some other P2P system set up.

[Raizel.8175]

Care to enlighten me how poeple can get scammed by using a p2p-trading-system? Literally every MMORPG I've played thus far featured a system where you see what you'll get and you'll only get it if both parties have agreed upon the trade. It is literally impossible to get scammed with such a system. The only reason against such a system would be inflation, else such a system would at least add some sort of socialization between players. Not that the game already suffers from being one of the least sociable MMORPGs...

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Raizel.8175 said:Care to enlighten me how poeple can get scammed by using a p2p-trading-system? Literally every MMORPG I've played thus far featured a system where you see what you'll get and you'll only get it if both parties have agreed upon the trade. It is literally impossible to get scammed with such a system. The only reason against such a system would be inflation, else such a system would at least add some sort of socialization between players. Not that the game already suffers from being one of the least sociable MMORPGs...

Most of it has to do with one side not paying attention. In GW1, I think the most common scam was using items that share the same, or similar, icons.

[Linken.6345]

@NuhDah.9812 said:I was at some point wandering if Anet have any gold information on how much in-game currency the Black Lion Trading Company makes out of the TP a year, and since launch. Those would be interesting statistics to to see. How much gold was lost by the community only for trading stuff? The guys from the Black Lion Trading Company must by filthy rich I guess, lol.

I don't mind the fact there is a fee attached to the trading process on the TP, but I feel it's a bit too high sometimes, especially on how it scales. I mean I was and would still be right now in a situation I wouldn't be able to sell something around 1000 gold if somehow luck strikes and I get a hold of something that valuable. It's a bit unfair to not be allowed to make money if you don't own at that point. The expanse is like this: 5% of the price of the item(s) for just posting it (that means you can't post something that amounts in 1000 gold if you don't own at least 50 gold and even then you'll need to be at 0 gold until someone buys your item) and after the transaction is complete you only get 90% of the price you posted (900 gold form that 1000 example, practically losing 100, lets say that would be double of the amount you previously had in the 50 gold example, meaning actually tones of money). In total it's a 15% fee, which amounts in 150 gold if the price of the transaction you post is 1000 gold. So you get 850 gold of the 1000 you were bargaining for if you use the TP.

I don't mind the TP being a gold sink, but it's pretty sad that if you want to make money for just a specific item, like a legendary peace of it's not allowing you to use the trading cost money for something useful to you like the construction of that legendary piece of gear. It feels that it has no competitions, there is no reliable alternative to it, competition between them and other Trading Company is not existent, there are no vouchers, incentives to reduce the transaction tax, and really I doubt irl the taxes are so high for the usual transactions and the economy is still working... actually I guess value-added tax exists in every economy, but then again this in-game gold tax just goes to waste, where the devs use the player real money as an additional tax, if I may word it like this, to improve the game's infrastructure...

I might be wrong in my view, but I'm curious what other people think about it.

Well I dont just find money walking around to and from work or even at work just doing my daily rutine either so trying to making it equal to real life is abit strange.

If they put in a limit on how much gold we could earn a day then yea that would be a way to remove the tax, dubt many people would like that tho.

EditWould be a way to get the tp players to play less I guess, sorry you earned enough gold already for the coming 5 years thank you and welcome back later.

[Raizel.8175]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Raizel.8175 said:Care to enlighten me how poeple can get scammed by using a p2p-trading-system? Literally every MMORPG I've played thus far featured a system where you see what you'll get and you'll only get it if both parties have agreed upon the trade. It is literally impossible to get scammed with such a system. The only reason against such a system would be inflation, else such a system would at least add some sort of socialization between players. Not that the game already suffers from being one of the least sociable MMORPGs...

Most of it has to do with one side not paying attention. In GW1, I think the most common scam was using items that share the same, or similar, icons.

Well...

I certainly won't get any sympathy for this, but: The dude who stated natural selection previously is certainly right in this case. If you don't even care to check what you're trading, then it really is your own fault. I mean, I can expect basic reading, writing and maths skills from other people, right? Right?

Though my experience in other MMORPGs and the year-long cultivated auto-atk-1111111-mentality in GW2 probably prove me wrong I guess...

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@Raizel.8175 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Raizel.8175 said:Care to enlighten me how poeple can get scammed by using a p2p-trading-system? Literally every MMORPG I've played thus far featured a system where you see what you'll get and you'll only get it if both parties have agreed upon the trade. It is literally impossible to get scammed with such a system. The only reason against such a system would be inflation, else such a system would at least add some sort of socialization between players. Not that the game already suffers from being one of the least sociable MMORPGs...

Most of it has to do with one side not paying attention. In GW1, I think the most common scam was using items that share the same, or similar, icons.

Well...

I certainly won't get any sympathy for this, but: The dude who stated natural selection previously is certainly right in this case. If you don't even care to check what you're trading, then it really is your own fault. I mean, I can expect basic reading, writing and maths skills from other people, right? Right?It doesn't matter whose fault it is. What matters is that every time someone feels ripped off, they'll make a ticket.

Does anyone really expect ANet to spend time on creating a new way of trading that a) adds nothing significant to the game, b) gains them nothing, c) eliminates an effective gold sink and d) creates more work for support?

[Lexi.1398]

If you want a direct system you have mail, take it at your own risk, i use mail to trade between my friends to give them better (for us) prices a lot.

Frankly the TP is the best trade system i've ever seen between all games i've ever played, no spam in chats + better prices for everyone- or, everyone except veterans who will exploit by massively marking up prices to newbs who don't know better.

[sorudo.9054]

does no one remember the security they added in GW1 later on, every change is warned about.also, they can also warn the player that X item costs Y in the TP, so scamming is impossible.

i like to have P2P trades, the amount of times i wanted to help a player by just giving a weapon but can't.if i could just drop the weapon it would change things but now i have to set up mail, explain how that works and only then the player has the weapon.with P2P i can just trade it outright and all the player has to do is accept, really dumb decision not to add simple trading....