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[Suggestion] A Proper Trading System Between Players


Ravij.9856

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Lion's Arch map chat was a buzz with how flawed trading is between players. There is no safe way to do a transaction between two players without the use of the Trading Post.Could we have something implemented to where people can just.. trade between each other? Add a two-step trading confirmation to prevent people from pulling out their offers or items to scam others. A lot of MMO's have this type of trading system between players. GW1 even had a Player to Player trading system. Please Anet, Add this to GW2.

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Your suggestion has already been fulfilled. It's called Trading Post. It's both very safe, and offers a lot of QoL options that a direct trading system like, for example, in GW1 simply did not have.(and remember, the gw1 system was both prone to scams, and a source of massive channel spam - both things we just don't want in GW2. It also encouraged veteran traders to take advantage of new players - which is also not a good thing)

It's likely, that what you're really asking about is a way for you to circumvent the TP tax, not a "better" trading system. Which is extremely unlikely to happen.

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No matter how ANet did it, player to player trading would result in scams. And ANet has come out many times on the old forums to say they have no plans on adding player to player transactions like they did in GW1.

Just because other MMO's have it, doesn't mean GW2 should have it.

Pros of person to person trade:

  • No listing fees
  • You get your items immediately, no need to go to a trading post

Cons of person to person trade:

  • Chance of being scammed is always present no matter what ANet does.
  • Loss of listing fees means inflation has one fewer check as fewer people use the gold sink that is the trading post listing fees.
  • Spamming of map chat and/or LFG for people looking to trade person to person.

To me, the cons outweigh the benefits.

The trading post is also player to player trading. It just utilizes a middleman who charges a fee to keep sellers and buyers anonymous. It also allows for the exchange of goods between the EU and NA servers.

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ANet has already addressed this question. They want everyone to use the trading post. Not only does it eliminate scams, which cost ANet time and money to handle, but it’s an important gold sink.

Getting scammed and Support“I’m really sorry this happened to you. Believe me, everyone on the CS Team is very sensitive to the damage that scammers do, and they’ll go out of their way to establish what took place so that the scammer is actioned, up to and including account termination. We can’t give back the items because in many cases they were shuttled off to another account or two, then sold, traded, or given to an innocent party. It seems easy — “Just take back my stuff!” — but the stuff is seldom on the account of the scammer and that person who bought an item on the TP not knowing it was stolen property should not become a second victim — that would not be fair at all.The devs created the Trading Post to give you a safe and secure means of trading and selling items. I consider TP fees as “insurance that the other player will play fairly” so I don’t try to avoid them. I encourage you and every player to use the TP for all transactions."

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@Ravij.9856 said:Lion's Arch map chat was a buzz with how flawed trading is between players. There is no safe way to do a transaction between two players without the use of the Trading Post.Could we have something implemented to where people can just.. trade between each other? Add a two-step trading confirmation to prevent people from pulling out their offers or items to scam others. A lot of MMO's have this type of trading system between players. GW1 even had a Player to Player trading system. Please Anet, Add this to GW2.

Haven't heard any buzz. your talking about changing one UI for another less flexable one. For e.g How would you setup an escrow process? You have mail as well.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:You didn't mention one more thing: In direct player to player trading system the price is what the 2 players agree on. On TP it's what the all players trading in that commodity agree on. As such, direct trading lets experienced traders get better deals. Which may be a pro for them, but is a con for everyone else.

The cost of goods would still be determined by the TP unless there's major discounts being thrown around (they never suggested removing the TP). Trading could be an earned privilege as well, preventing inexperienced players from being able to use it along with the gold exchanged being taxed just like the TP. Direct trading already happens through the use of the mail system, which isn't taxed and is also prone to scams.

The only real reason to not have direct trading is simply to not have resources spent monitoring chat spam and it would also be another step to lookout for in terms of RMT. I don't mind not having direct trading, but would prefer honesty as to the bigger reason why it wasn't added to GW2. There's nothing wrong with creating a system that requires less money to monitor.

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@Seera.5916 said:No matter how ANet did it, player to player trading would result in scams. And ANet has come out many times on the old forums to say they have no plans on adding player to player transactions like they did in GW1.

Just because other MMO's have it, doesn't mean GW2 should have it.

Pros of person to person trade:

  • No listing fees
  • You get your items immediately, no need to go to a trading post

Cons of person to person trade:

  • Chance of being scammed is always present no matter what ANet does.
  • Loss of listing fees means inflation has one fewer check as fewer people use the gold sink that is the trading post listing fees.
  • Spamming of map chat and/or LFG for people looking to trade person to person.

To me, the cons outweigh the benefits.

The trading post is also player to player trading. It just utilizes a middleman who charges a fee to keep sellers and buyers anonymous. It also allows for the exchange of goods between the EU and NA servers.

I'm sorry but being scammed with P2P trading is a matter of natural selection rather than actual design flaw. Any trade you make, whether in game or RL should be made with due care.

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@Ravij.9856 said:Lion's Arch map chat was a buzz with how flawed trading is between players. There is no safe way to do a transaction between two players without the use of the Trading Post.Could we have something implemented to where people can just.. trade between each other? Add a two-step trading confirmation to prevent people from pulling out their offers or items to scam others. A lot of MMO's have this type of trading system between players. GW1 even had a Player to Player trading system. Please Anet, Add this to GW2.

ANet deliberately avoided including such a system in GW2:

  • Scamming is impossible.
  • Market-savvy players cannot take advantage of others, because they have to compete with the rest of the market.
  • Everyone can see market prices and will only ever pay market prices for an item.
  • People trade with everyone in the NA and EU regions, rather than the small subset of people in the same map instance.
  • No one has to stop playing in order to find a trade partner.
  • The enormous size of the TP ensures that no one can dominate any single niche for long and that markets will come to equilibrium quickly after changes to the game.
  • The TP fees create one of the few MMO gold sinks that scales with the economy: it sucks more coin from the economy when people have more coin to spend. This reduces the rate of inflation better than any type of traditional (but static) gold sinks.
  • And yes, it almost completely eliminates trade spamming, something that a lot of players seem to be happy about.

As a result, P2P trading isn't needed and isn't necessarily best for the community overall.

In contrast, there is no such thing as safe P2P trading; someone can always get scammed regardless of how many confirmations (this happened, e.g., all the time in GW1). So GW2 removes any false sense of security with P2P trading, and offers an incredibly simple and powerful anonymous trading tool (the TP).

If you really want to avoid TP fees, you can still P2P trade at your own risk. I know dozens of people who do this regularly. And hardly any have ever had to deal with an issue.

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@DakotaCoty.5721 said:I'm sorry but being scammed with P2P trading is a matter of natural selection rather than actual design flaw. Any trade you make, whether in game or RL should be made with due care.

That's an effective argument against an in-game P2P system: if it's up to each player to take care, the game need not provide any semblance of protection at all.

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@DakotaCoty.5721 said:

@Seera.5916 said:No matter how ANet did it, player to player trading would result in scams. And ANet has come out many times on the old forums to say they have no plans on adding player to player transactions like they did in GW1.

Just because other MMO's have it, doesn't mean GW2 should have it.

Pros of person to person trade:
  • No listing fees
  • You get your items immediately, no need to go to a trading post

Cons of person to person trade:
  • Chance of being scammed is always present no matter what ANet does.
  • Loss of listing fees means inflation has one fewer check as fewer people use the gold sink that is the trading post listing fees.
  • Spamming of map chat and/or LFG for people looking to trade person to person.

To me, the cons outweigh the benefits.

The trading post is also player to player trading. It just utilizes a middleman who charges a fee to keep sellers and buyers anonymous. It also allows for the exchange of goods between the EU and NA servers.

I'm sorry but being scammed with P2P trading is a matter of natural selection rather than actual design flaw. Any trade you make, whether in game or RL should be made with due care.

It's not natural selection when scamming is against the rules of the game. ANet's found the best way to prevent scamming when it comes to trading. The Trading Post.

It greatly reduces the number of tickets sent in to support saying that Johnny scammed Billy. Which is the main reason ANet decided to go for the Trading Post. Reduces the number of tickets sent in to support for the reason of scamming.

And have you seen the posts in the Account section where there's currently a long wait time for tickets? Imagine how much longer it would be if you added a lot more "I got scammed" tickets to the fray.....

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Since anet ban scammers though they don't give you back the items, the idea could be a dedicated forum where players exchange items without tp.

Obviously the trade would happen between players with high AP. Let's say 10k or more.

This because players don't want to get their main banned, so the AP requirement will indirectly force them to trade without scam and feeling more secure.

The trade could be registrered with fraps or Another program from both parts, as proof.

The main problem btw will be that if this System will be successful, anet could stop to protect players from scams, cause the trade outside tp could ruin tp.

Btw, to me is something which is Worth a shot.

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What about the other topic about selling his precursor for mere coppers? That's example of being scammed by the TP itself.

The worst thing about p2p trade is the chat spam and unwanted trade requests. Nevertheless there is a need for two friends to safely, easily exchange.

So best solution is a dedicated zone that allows p2p trade. Gated by AP, paid accounts, etc. Perhaps even allow players to set up merchants shops in the zone.

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@Shena Fu.5792 said:What about the other topic about selling his precursor for mere coppers? That's example of being scammed by the TP itself.

The worst thing about p2p trade is the chat spam and unwanted trade requests. Nevertheless there is a need for two friends to safely, easily exchange.

So best solution is a dedicated zone that allows p2p trade. Gated by AP, paid accounts, etc. Perhaps even allow players to set up merchants shops in the zone.

Well if your friends use the mail system, if your not friends have them join your guild and put money in your bank then mail them the item or the rewerse.

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Two friends exchanging items/gold can easily do so with existing mail system.

It's honestly incredibly simple:

  • If trading with someone you trust fully - mail works fine.
  • For all else, there's the TP.
  • If you absolutely want to trade outside TP, there are forums for that with community trusted regulars to act as middlemen/escrow holders.

In short, what we have is just fine, as there are several reasons (all brought up above) to actively disincentivize out-of-TP trading, but since mail system exists and is available from everywhere the option is still there.

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@DakotaCoty.5721 said:I'm sorry but being scammed with P2P trading is a matter of natural selection rather than actual design flaw. Any trade you make, whether in game or RL should be made with due care.

That's an effective argument against an in-game P2P system: if it's up to each player to take care, the game need not provide any semblance of protection at all.

Not at all, it's completely the opposite - if one person cannot be trusted by themselves to make a trade then that is their own fault and not the system.

And also, I hope we're not talking about "I sold this item for cheap, I got scammed", because that's not scamming.

Scamming within gaming is defined as something like "item swapping" on the last second.Intentionally being deceived that an item is worth less than it is.The person being told that he'll pay you after if you trade first

Most of these "scamming" situations can be prevented by actions of the player, which definitely does not go against P2P trading - as I said previously, if you are selling/buying items in RL or in a game, you should pay due care.

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@Shirlias.8104 said:Since anet ban scammers though they don't give you back the items, the idea could be a dedicated forum where players exchange items without tp.

Obviously the trade would happen between players with high AP. Let's say 10k or more.

This because players don't want to get their main banned, so the AP requirement will indirectly force them to trade without scam and feeling more secure.

The trade could be registrered with fraps or Another program from both parts, as proof.

The main problem btw will be that if this System will be successful, anet could stop to protect players from scams, cause the trade outside tp could ruin tp.

Btw, to me is something which is Worth a shot.

Reddit. Guild Wars 2 exchange. Like all p2p trades it’s use at your own risk,

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ANet is not going to put in place a system that has the exact same function as something already in game. It's a waste of resources.

The Trading Post allows for trade between players. I can't think of any function that a direct P2P trading system would have that isn't found in the current Trading Post.

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Can someone tell me how to trade with the trading post?As I'm going to assume for example if someone wanted to give me Shadow Abyss Dye for let's say Bloody Red Dye... I don't know how to go about doing that with the trading post.Because those that's mentioning and defending the trading post, all I see is that it's literally what other MMOs call as an AH (Auction House).

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