Hot maps and enemies are a master piece

[artcreator.4859]

I recently replayed the HoT maps, my goodness, it's amazing, the maps design, the enemies. All the enemies each have a different mechanic, one charges, one spits aoe's everywhere, one knocks you down, and one simply attacks you. individually they're simple and easy to understand, but when they come together it's soooo much fun!

Anet PLEASE make EoD more like this!

anyone agree or disagree?

[Westenev.5289]

I vastly preferred the original HoT - the current HoT is a much more watered down version. The original made maps like Verdant Brink and Tangled Depths scary in a literal sense, since a hoarde of pocket raptors, itzel or mordrem snipers could pounce on you at any second and there was really nothing you could do about it if you wandered carelessly into a killzone (anyone remember the pale reaver meta event, with the mordrem sniper room? xD).

But PoF has its charms too - enemies finally use condi's, meaning we finally have a reason to use condi cleanse!

[Konrad Curze.5130]

Current Hot is nerfed to all hell, original was 200% harder. Also PoF specs brought a metric ton of power creep, HoT specs weren't anywhere close, so that's another layer of nerf

And last, mounts make Hot maps awesome. Without mounts they were extremly tiresome and annoying

Hot resulted in a huge loss of players when it released, so bad they had to make the core game f2p to save it. I don't think GW2 can afford another round like that. Hope EoD is waaaaaaaaaaaaay better designed than Hot was, or it'll kill the game for good this time

[maddoctor.2738]

...there was one mob that changed with the "nerfs" (Itzel Shadow Leaper), while they reduced mob density on "roads", or areas that connect different event places. For pocket raptors specifically in Verdant Brink and Auric Basin they are the same as they've always been. There were no massive changes with the so called HOT "nerf", just the player perception changed. The massive difficulty nerf people might remember was done with the launch of HOT, to mobs in Silverwastes/Dry Top, those were indeed nerfed to the ground. Other than that we had the rather big nerf to mobs like Mordrem Snipers that happened -after- the beta, due to many player complaints in the beta. At launch they were they never nerfed, either in numbers, nor in challenge.

But I guess it's a common misconception on these forums that there was a massive nerf to HOT difficulty at some point, even though that's not factually true. To repeat, the big nerfs were on Silverwastes/Dry Top with the launch of HOT, and on HOT mobs after the BETA. The so called "nerf" patch that happened on HOT zones barely changed their difficulty in terms of mob density or skill (With the one notable exception).

[Cuks.8241]

Hot is the best set of maps that I have played in any mmorpg ever. I always thought WoW has a great design in general but Hot trumps that. Map design, enemy design, events design are a masterpiece. Just getting from Verdant Brink to Dragon Stand without mounts is worth an exploration adventure game of its own. And Tangled Depths is just breathtaking. If there would be a game map design contests somewhere this should be an all-time all-star winner.I am super glad I played these maps without mounts to be able to appreciate all the intricacies and design features. I still find myself doing random outpost events on a whim and for the metas I just hope one day we get something at such a high level again.

[Dawdler.8521]

It is still my opinion that Eternal Battlegrounds should be replaced with Tangled Depths.

[Quench.7091]

If I visit a HoT map for one reason or another, such as a daily, I'll sometimes jump into the content itself if I got the time. It's great MMO content. The side events in Auric Basin and Verdant Brink actually contribute to the overall meta! That's awesome!

I could care less if these farmers burning in Balthazar's ambush make it out. I don't want to do the infinite daily hearts. Who cares about bounties, except for the achievements. The only side events I care about in base PoF maps are the mount races. Only the Living World PoF maps are worth sinking my teeth into.

EoD better not have bounties. Those zones better have something that I actually want to do.

[Sir Alric.5078]

@Dawdler.8521 said:It is still my opinion that Eternal Battlegrounds should be replaced with Tangled Depths.

I would love to see that just to eat popcorns and laugh while reading all the insults and curses in map chat.

[otto.5684]

@Westenev.5289 said:I vastly preferred the original HoT - the current HoT is a much more watered down version. The original made maps like Verdant Brink and Tangled Depths scary in a literal sense, since a hoarde of pocket raptors, itzel or mordrem snipers could pounce on you at any second and there was really nothing you could do about it if you wandered carelessly into a killzone (anyone remember the pale reaver meta event, with the mordrem sniper room? xD).

But PoF has its charms too - enemies finally use condi's, meaning we finally have a reason to use condi cleanse!

I dunno about itzel being good design. Leap back + evade + really high ranged damage burst in one skill. Remember when they were immune to ranged damage? Moderm snipers instant melee knock back that deals tons of damage as well. Although I agree that the difficulty of HoT is highly overrated. But it did not get watered down much, it is class balance that went through a major power creep. I can one shoot most none veteran mobs. Even veteran mobs, just few seconds.

PoF does have difficulty, but you really have to go out of your way to find it. I am talking about Djin. I remember that Earth Djin is considered the strongest mob in the game with 44% chance to defeat players. This speaks more to lack of players skill. However, I much prefer fighting a veteran earth Djin over a veteran moderm sniper or itzel. The latter is better designed as it requires player input versus instant high level damage, that sometimes is not even evadable.

I know I digressed much, but HoT was not really difficult. More like cheap shots and unfair design. I want higher difficulty than even vanilla HoT, but not ranged enemies dealing 10k damage while leaping away and evading or 7-8k instant jabs with push back and CC.

[Ayrilana.1396]

If people believe that HoT mobs were nerfed, please provide the patch notes stating so.

Below are the mob related changes from the major HoT update they did April 2016

VB

• The champions in the "Kill the rampaging Mordrem" nighttime events have been changed to veterans.
• Decreased enemy spawns in a few choke-point areas that line up with some of the more heavily traveled roads.

AB

• The event creature scaling has been toned down for the "Protect skritt foragers as they return with supplies from the jungle" event

TD

• The chak gerent now takes increased damage when its defiance bar is broken.
• Fixed the scaling of the chak in the "Join Shrael Backstab on his recon mission" event.
• Fixed some hostility issues with the natural creatures.

None of those really had any impact or are too narrow in scope.

[Fuchslein.8639]

I agree :)

[Gombie.3860]

@Konrad Curze.5130 said:Hot resulted in a huge loss of players when it released, so bad they had to make the core game f2p to save it. I don't think GW2 can afford another round like that. Hope EoD is waaaaaaaaaaaaay better designed than Hot was, or it'll kill the game for good this time

Wow didn't know this. I imagine they wanted to make it group content zone/dangerous. I heard in ESO they did the same but it was just a single map but also had to nerf it.

Just crazy to think how MMOs have now turned into a primarily solo experience when originally player interaction was almost mandatory.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Gombie.3860 said:

@Konrad Curze.5130 said:Hot resulted in a huge loss of players when it released, so bad they had to make the core game f2p to save it. I don't think GW2 can afford another round like that. Hope EoD is waaaaaaaaaaaaay better designed than Hot was, or it'll kill the game for good this time

Wow didn't know this. I imagine they wanted to make it group content zone/dangerous. I heard in ESO they did the same but it was just a single map but also had to nerf it.

Just crazy to think how MMOs have now turned into a primarily solo experience when originally player interaction was almost mandatory.

What they said is based on their opinion.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Gombie.3860 said:

@Konrad Curze.5130 said:Hot resulted in a huge loss of players when it released, so bad they had to make the core game f2p to save it. I don't think GW2 can afford another round like that. Hope EoD is waaaaaaaaaaaaay better designed than Hot was, or it'll kill the game for good this time

Wow didn't know this. I imagine they wanted to make it group content zone/dangerous. I heard in ESO they did the same but it was just a single map but also had to nerf it.

Just crazy to think how MMOs have now turned into a primarily solo experience when originally player interaction was almost mandatory.

Of course you didn't know that because @Konrad Curze.5130 doesn't know what they are talking about. The core game went F2P BEFORE the launch of HOT, not after to "save" the game. The game went free to play in August 2015, HOT launched in October 2015. But I guess it's quite normal for posters on game forums to be completely misinformed, or posting incaccurate statements to promote an agenda.

But then again the same poster claimed that HOT was "200% harder" or in another post that the game has more accounts than the entire population of the Earth, nothing to take seriously. Interesting that some misinformed trolls thumbed up that ridiculous post.

[kharmin.7683]

So, after a mass exodus that happened when HoT was originally released, Anet made changes to those maps. Do you honestly think that it is in Anet's best interest to release an expansion at the level of complexity and difficulty that caused a lot of players to leave the last time that they did so?

[maddoctor.2738]

@kharmin.7683 said:So, after a mass exodus that happened when HoT was originally released, Anet made changes to those maps. Do you honestly think that it is in Anet's best interest to release an expansion at the level of complexity and difficulty that caused a lot of players to leave the last time that they did so?

I'd like to see the data that supports the idea of that mass exodus.

[Quench.7091]

I wonder what stats the developers have in the background. They are probably already comparing player engagement between the different forms of content. Some of the newest content may lead to some clues in their direction. They have abandoned features, such as bounties, in favor of HoT-like meta events that are on constant repeat, similar to what we see in Dragon's Stand. They probably understand the player base really well this time around.

[Sobx.1758]

@Konrad Curze.5130 said:Current Hot is nerfed to all hell, original was 200% harder.

Source for this 200% accurate claim?

And last, mounts make Hot maps awesome. Without mounts they were extremly tiresome and annoying

Mounts are mounts, they make stuff better because they're that good. The second sentence is subjective and from my perspective just wrong.

Hot resulted in a huge loss of players when it released, so bad they had to make the core game f2p to save it.

Also false, but you already got called out on this and dodged that post completely :(

[Konrad Curze.5130]

@"Sobx.1758" said:Source for this 200% accurate claim?

What I meant was that HoT was harder.. And it was. Specs were also far below today standards, so stuff was harder. Story was also harder, they nerfed that too.

But sure, you can disregard all that cold hard facts because they cannot be mathematically reduced to an exact "200%", therefore everything must be wrong.

Man, shit must be hitting the fan big, big time when fanbois have to cling this extremly hard to how things are worded to make their points.

Mounts are mounts, they make stuff better because they're that good.

They don't just make good stuff beter. They also make shit stuff tolerable. Which is what they did to HoT maps, or so is the common opinion

Also false, but you already got called out on this and dodged that post completely :(

Yep, I got that wrong for a couple months, I admit I forgot the correct time line, spare me my life, that was 5 years ago. It's true that GW2 didnt go f2p because of HoT....... altho by that time HoT was in beta testing... But I digress...

However, that basically means that ANet executives didn't believe that HoT would be able to turn things around, they had zero hope on their own work, and couldn't wait a couple more months, they had to act... Well, they were completly right on that one, at least. Finally a good call from them, yay

[Sobx.1758]

@Konrad Curze.5130 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:Source for this 200% accurate claim?

What I meant was that HoT was harder.. And it was. Specs were also far below today standards, so stuff was harder. Story was also harder, they nerfed that too.

It was: a little, at some points.So what you've meant was not what you wrote before, but you chose to overexaggurate to pretend there's a huge point in what you've said, when there's barely any?Specs weren't "below today standards". Story was never actually "hard", it's just that some people fail at basic game mechanics.

But sure, you can disregard all that cold hard facts because they cannot be mathematically reduced to an exact "200%", therefore everything must be wrong.

The point here is that most of your "cold hard facts" aren't facts at all. It's not even about being "exactly twice as hard!!11", it's about you spreading false or hugely exaggurated claims. But yeah, the moment you get called out on something "you didn't mean that" but at the same time somehow I'm the one "ignoring cold hard facts!". :+1:

Man, kitten must be hitting the fan big, big time when fanbois have to cling this extremly hard to how things are worded to make their points.

?You type out a bunch of false claims and then people that call you out are "fanboys" because you have nothing else to respond with. Good one. :D

Mounts are mounts, they make stuff better because they're that good.

They don't just make good stuff beter. They also make kitten stuff tolerable. Which is what they did to HoT maps, or so is the common opinion

"your opinion" isn't "common opinion" and HoT wasn't bad before mounts, the maps are still one of the best they've made and the difficulty was perfectly fine for people that understood the game's core mechanics. Or so is the common opinion.

Also false, but you already got called out on this and dodged that post completely :(

Yep, I got that wrong for a couple months, I admit I. Forgot the correct time line. It's true that GW2 didnt go f2p because of HoT.

However, that basically means that ANet executives didn't believe that HoT would be able to turn things around, and couldn't wait a couple more months, they had to act... Well, they were completly right on that one, at least. Finally a good call from them, yay

lmao."Yep, got that wrong, but I'll still try to put my own spin on it, because I don't need to base stuff on anything, I'm just here to stir the kitten up, so even if I'm wrong I'm still right ok?"Ok, mate.