Menders needs to go

[Lucentfir.7430]

Remove it. This is what everyone wants, just keep removing options from the game until you're just left with one amulet. I'd suggest the one amulet be celestial. xD Then we can move on to trimming down rune and sigil options. :+1:

[Gamble.4580]

@MrForz.1953 said:

@Gamble.4580 said:No if u do this 5v5 will just be heavy dps comps and u bananas can’t handle that. If anet deleted support I would take the queen to leave and just play cod for the same feels. I hope anet don’t read these forums

I love how across all games everytime the support role is targeted said game is immediately threatened to devolve into Call of Duty.

Because conquest was never about kills it was about winning points and holding them every role has value and needed to dps to bunker to romer to support. This is what makes gw2 pvp great and these different roles are what attract different people to the game mode. Not everyone wants to one shot not everyone wants to be a 1v1 god

[Crozame.4098]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Nah, the problem with Menders is the vitality. Keep Marshal so that people who wants to support will have to risk their own life rather than sit on a high health pool they can sustain on yet not be useless because of the hybrid damage it offers, there is clear evidence that vitality act as a buffer for people to simply face roll without thinking much as they support.

I was actually talking about this with my AT party and it comes as no surprise to why Magi was also removed.

When people can just tank lots of damage and be heal bots is the real issue with bunkers as of late, with how we got the nerf patch, Menders became the new Magi.

If players want to keep menders, remove vitality and tweak it like as those suggestions go;

• 1200 Power , 900 Precision , 900 Healing Power
• 900 Power , 1200 Precision , 900 Healing Power
• 900 Power , 900 Precision , 1200 Healing Power

Just had enough with people playing low risk bunker builds, it's time to have some risks into it. Make damage mitigation buffs/conditions and properly timed healing matter again.

If they want vitality and healing, Sage exists.

As a support class, why it needs power, precision, or conditions dmg etc.?

And what stats would you suggest then?

So your reason is that there is no other stats, so give them some dmg? Thats not a good excuse. And there are concentration? Maybe a bit of toughness? Maybe 1200 healing power is more or less enough, no need to give other stats to make the sum comparable to other amulets.

[Shao.7236]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Nah, the problem with Menders is the vitality. Keep Marshal so that people who wants to support will have to risk their own life rather than sit on a high health pool they can sustain on yet not be useless because of the hybrid damage it offers, there is clear evidence that vitality act as a buffer for people to simply face roll without thinking much as they support.

I was actually talking about this with my AT party and it comes as no surprise to why Magi was also removed.

When people can just tank lots of damage and be heal bots is the real issue with bunkers as of late, with how we got the nerf patch, Menders became the new Magi.

If players want to keep menders, remove vitality and tweak it like as those suggestions go;

• 1200 Power , 900 Precision , 900 Healing Power
• 900 Power , 1200 Precision , 900 Healing Power
• 900 Power , 900 Precision , 1200 Healing Power

Just had enough with people playing low risk bunker builds, it's time to have some risks into it. Make damage mitigation buffs/conditions and properly timed healing matter again.

If they want vitality and healing, Sage exists.

See menders doesn't give much damage and at the same time supports need something more then heal and condi cleanse to be considered viable in play, and usually supports don't have some ou kitten im out button. Another issue with supports is that arenanet did not design them to be that from the get go so we get some wild kitten when some player breaks the code. Also the amulets you suggest would not fair any better cause by the look of them they are support warrior wet dream while the low hp classes will suck, but then again support that is not a punching bag that can't retaliate, might be better.PS: I also don't get why they keep nerfing the heal power coefficients at some point the stat will be useless and running any other amulet with heal multipliers will be the go to.

Warrior has no i-frames compared Elementalist to which Stone Earth also exists, Necromancer benefits highly if not more from Vitality compared Warrior, Revenant has Infuse Light which no matter the Healing Power can easily abuse the Vitality compared Warrior limited options to which having none of the Vitality buffer greatly affects the room for mistakes.

You see, survivability isn't an issue on any of the professions currently used for support if they're played properly.

We already had enough nerfs on the co-efficient, nobody asked for 'em either. It also gets really annoying that somehow we think pointing out that support having damage is pointless, like Mender as it is makes any sense compared what I suggested. Vitality is the clear issue, that is all.

[OutOfOrder.3719]

Lol. Menders amulet removal ? Why not remove berserkers and Marauder amulet while we’re at it !

No. Learn to play and +1 properly.

[Kuma.1503]

I've been playing renegade with carrion instead of demo because shortbow has good condi damage on it. I get to feel like a tank while still dishing out good damage.

Should remove carrion too. +900 vit is unhealthy and promotes unfun condi bunker gameplay.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Crozame.4098 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:Nah, the problem with Menders is the vitality. Keep Marshal so that people who wants to support will have to risk their own life rather than sit on a high health pool they can sustain on yet not be useless because of the hybrid damage it offers, there is clear evidence that vitality act as a buffer for people to simply face roll without thinking much as they support.

I was actually talking about this with my AT party and it comes as no surprise to why Magi was also removed.

When people can just tank lots of damage and be heal bots is the real issue with bunkers as of late, with how we got the nerf patch, Menders became the new Magi.

If players want to keep menders, remove vitality and tweak it like as those suggestions go;

• 1200 Power , 900 Precision , 900 Healing Power
• 900 Power , 1200 Precision , 900 Healing Power
• 900 Power , 900 Precision , 1200 Healing Power

Just had enough with people playing low risk bunker builds, it's time to have some risks into it. Make damage mitigation buffs/conditions and properly timed healing matter again.

If they want vitality and healing, Sage exists.

As a support class, why it needs power, precision, or conditions dmg etc.?

And what stats would you suggest then?

So your reason is that there is no other stats, so give them some dmg? Thats not a good excuse. And there are concentration? Maybe a bit of toughness? Maybe 1200 healing power is more or less enough, no need to give other stats to make the sum comparable to other amulets.

Its not that its "just give them damage" its that almost every other state combination that isn't bad/a noob trap/ makes sense has already been removed or already exists.

Expertise and concentration were universally removed from amulets.Healing power & toughness have a compound effect which renders it too strong with the amount of effects skills / especs have these days. They all got removed.Cele got removed for having all 3 defensive stats and moderate damage meaning you were incredibly tanky and had decent damage.Ferocity holds no bearing and is never found without power. Its mathematically almost always worse than power. So isn't tend to exist without it to avoid trapping noobs.Magi, (HEALINGPOWER, perc, vit ) was removed because it was too strong as a pure support amulet.

All amulets have a minimum of 3000 stats except paladin at 2800 because toughness and vitality have a compound effect on effective hp.Your suggestion of "just 1200 healing power no need for other stats" would make the amulet a non-choice almost 100% of the time. Why take an amulet with just 1200 healing power when I can take one with 500 and still have an extra 1800 stat points else where compared...

Stat wise on amulets its either pur power, hybrid condi / support, rabid.

[Crozame.4098]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:

@"Shao.7236" said:

Expertise and concentration were universally removed from amulets.Magi, (HEALINGPOWER, perc, vit ) was removed because it was too strong as a pure support amulet.All amulets have a minimum of 3000 stats except paladin at 2800 because toughness and vitality have a compound effect on effective hp.Your suggestion of "just 1200 healing power no need for other stats" would make the amulet a non-choice almost 100% of the time. Why take an amulet with just 1200 healing power when I can take one with 500 and still have an extra 1800 stat points else where compared...

Why can't we be more creative and maybe deviate from the norm a bit? Maybe introduce an amulet with Healing power, concentration and expertise but with lower overall stats if it is too strong?

Your suggestion of "just 1200 healing power no need for other stats" would make the amulet a non-choice almost 100% of the time. Why take an amulet with just 1200 healing power when I can take one with 500 and still have an extra 1800 stat points else where compared...Cele is no longer available in sPvP at the moment? Even if they reintroduce it, maybe remove the heal power part of that amulet. In this case, the only amulet with healing power is the one with maybe only healing power stats and low or non other stats. I think teams will still have one support using it for the team fight, but we might see less side node unkillable bunkers, which might make the MATs and community organised tournaments more exciting.

[Crozame.4098]

@Kuma.1503 said:I've been playing renegade with carrion instead of demo because shortbow has good condi damage on it. I get to feel like a tank while still dishing out good damage.

Should remove carrion too. +900 vit is unhealthy and promotes unfun condi bunker gameplay.

This is not in the MAT winner teams or worm teams for a reason.

[MarkoGold.7126]

just remove all amulets and let us use our pve gear.

[lovemghool.7613]

if the community still asks for things to be removed from the game at this point then it is beyond saving

[Vancho.8750]

@Shao.7236 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Nah, the problem with Menders is the vitality. Keep Marshal so that people who wants to support will have to risk their own life rather than sit on a high health pool they can sustain on yet not be useless because of the hybrid damage it offers, there is clear evidence that vitality act as a buffer for people to simply face roll without thinking much as they support.

I was actually talking about this with my AT party and it comes as no surprise to why Magi was also removed.

When people can just tank lots of damage and be heal bots is the real issue with bunkers as of late, with how we got the nerf patch, Menders became the new Magi.

If players want to keep menders, remove vitality and tweak it like as those suggestions go;

• 1200 Power , 900 Precision , 900 Healing Power
• 900 Power , 1200 Precision , 900 Healing Power
• 900 Power , 900 Precision , 1200 Healing Power

Just had enough with people playing low risk bunker builds, it's time to have some risks into it. Make damage mitigation buffs/conditions and properly timed healing matter again.

If they want vitality and healing, Sage exists.

See menders doesn't give much damage and at the same time supports need something more then heal and condi cleanse to be considered viable in play, and usually supports don't have some ou kitten im out button. Another issue with supports is that arenanet did not design them to be that from the get go so we get some wild kitten when some player breaks the code. Also the amulets you suggest would not fair any better cause by the look of them they are support warrior wet dream while the low hp classes will suck, but then again support that is not a punching bag that can't retaliate, might be better.PS: I also don't get why they keep nerfing the heal power coefficients at some point the stat will be useless and running any other amulet with heal multipliers will be the go to.

Warrior has no i-frames compared Elementalist to which Stone Earth also exists, Necromancer benefits highly if not more from Vitality compared Warrior, Revenant has Infuse Light which no matter the Healing Power can easily abuse the Vitality compared Warrior limited options to which having none of the Vitality buffer greatly affects the room for mistakes.

You see, survivability isn't an issue on any of the professions currently used for support if they're played properly.

We already had enough nerfs on the co-efficient, nobody asked for 'em either. It also gets really annoying that somehow we think pointing out that support having damage is pointless, like Mender as it is makes any sense compared what I suggested. Vitality is the clear issue, that is all.All im saying that damage + heal power will boost high health classes while the low HP classes wont be effective with it since they will just die 11k hp is a single Rev burst. Maybe Guardian needs some touch ups so it can't chain PVE rotations, but its not an amulet issue here.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Remove Mender's so revenants can cleanly maintain their #1 in class hierarchy.

[Disney.7826]

@Kuma.1503 said:I've been playing renegade with carrion instead of demo because shortbow has good condi damage on it. I get to feel like a tank while still dishing out good damage.

Should remove carrion too. +900 vit is unhealthy and promotes unfun condi bunker gameplay.

How does that work?Kalla - nerfedShiro - u wasting impossible odds, but good for teleportingMallyx - ur elite and pull are useless

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Mender's isn't the problem.

Supports in general are too buffed in this current patching. <- This is the problem.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Mender's isn't the problem.

Supports in general are too buffed in this current patching. <- This is the problem.

It's rather hilarious how "supports" are hella tanky with tons of utility AND decent-ish damage when compared to actual DPS builds (outside revenant).

[Khalisto.5780]

@Crozame.4098 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Nah, the problem with Menders is the vitality. Keep Marshal so that people who wants to support will have to risk their own life rather than sit on a high health pool they can sustain on yet not be useless because of the hybrid damage it offers, there is clear evidence that vitality act as a buffer for people to simply face roll without thinking much as they support.

I was actually talking about this with my AT party and it comes as no surprise to why Magi was also removed.

When people can just tank lots of damage and be heal bots is the real issue with bunkers as of late, with how we got the nerf patch, Menders became the new Magi.

If players want to keep menders, remove vitality and tweak it like as those suggestions go;

• 1200 Power , 900 Precision , 900 Healing Power
• 900 Power , 1200 Precision , 900 Healing Power
• 900 Power , 900 Precision , 1200 Healing Power

Just had enough with people playing low risk bunker builds, it's time to have some risks into it. Make damage mitigation buffs/conditions and properly timed healing matter again.

If they want vitality and healing, Sage exists.

As a support class, why it needs power, precision, or conditions dmg etc.?

Expertise/concentration are gone from pvp, so you have dmg stats and defensive stats, you definitely dont want a tough vit healing amulet

[Kuma.1503]

@Filip.7463 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:I've been playing renegade with carrion instead of demo because shortbow has good condi damage on it. I get to feel like a tank while still dishing out good damage.

Should remove carrion too. +900 vit is unhealthy and promotes unfun condi bunker gameplay.

How does that work?Kalla - nerfedShiro - u wasting impossible odds, but good for teleportingMallyx - ur elite and pull are useless

I was mostly meme'ing. I wouldn't say it's broken, but as for how it works...

You litearlly just go shiro/jallis as normal, and you run carrion amulet over demo. You don't really need impossible odds, so you mostly use shiro for the stunbreak, lifesteal or port. Because I naturally find myself pooling energy in it, I can more freely make use of Jade Winds as well.

Shortbow has very good condi damage on it (it is a condi weapon in PvE afterall). Bombardment, if you can line it up with CC does a crap ton of burn damage.

It actually has a good matchup into opposing renegades because you can tank their damage with your Vit, and they really don't have good sustained cleanse to deal with your pressure. Pair it with a support and you've got a beefy teamfight dps that can dish out very good pressure over time. Not very bursty (outside of bombardment/spiritcrush which you can line up with CC), but the damage it deals quickly adds up.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Mender's isn't the problem.

Supports in general are too buffed in this current patching. <- This is the problem.

It's rather hilarious how "supports" are hella tanky with tons of utility AND decent-ish damage when compared to actual DPS builds (outside revenant).

Once upon a time it worked like this:

• Team Fighters were slow, dealt lots of AoE damage and CC output, had little to no support at all.
• Supports were slow, dealt little to no damage or CC at all, mid grade selfish sustain, but had a lot of support
• DPS +er Roamer was fast, dealt a lot of single target damage and CC, had bad sustain and no support.

• Side Node Duelists or Bunkers had a lot of selfish sustain and no real support, dealt small damage and had medium mobility.

  Players speak of fables & myths from these times, when the game felt balanced.

But now we have this:

• Team Fight Support Side Noder Bunkers that deal a lot of AoE damage and CC, medium mobility at worst, over buffed support boons and healing, strong self sustain.
• DPS +er Roamer that's not as fast as it used to be, deals less damage to single targets than AoE team fight builds, has no support.
• And then other builds that no longer have a job role because they aren't a DPS +er Roamer, and they aren't as good at Team Fight Support Side Node Bunkering as the current over buffed Support Gods.

I mean essentially what they started doing was they looked at anything that spit support, and just started buffing them way way too much. I don't know who's idea it was to make sure that "All Supports should deal Reaper like AoE damage but maintain maximum levels of support" but it was a stupid idea.

[Crozame.4098]

@Khalisto.5780 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Nah, the problem with Menders is the vitality. Keep Marshal so that people who wants to support will have to risk their own life rather than sit on a high health pool they can sustain on yet not be useless because of the hybrid damage it offers, there is clear evidence that vitality act as a buffer for people to simply face roll without thinking much as they support.

I was actually talking about this with my AT party and it comes as no surprise to why Magi was also removed.

When people can just tank lots of damage and be heal bots is the real issue with bunkers as of late, with how we got the nerf patch, Menders became the new Magi.

If players want to keep menders, remove vitality and tweak it like as those suggestions go;

• 1200 Power , 900 Precision , 900 Healing Power
• 900 Power , 1200 Precision , 900 Healing Power
• 900 Power , 900 Precision , 1200 Healing Power

Just had enough with people playing low risk bunker builds, it's time to have some risks into it. Make damage mitigation buffs/conditions and properly timed healing matter again.

If they want vitality and healing, Sage exists.

As a support class, why it needs power, precision, or conditions dmg etc.?

Expertise/concentration are gone from pvp, so you have dmg stats and defensive stats, you definitely dont want a tough vit healing amulet

Then why ANET cannot make an amulet only with healing power (why cannot we break the norm for better balance?) And why ANET cannot bring back those two stats?

[pikachu.2510]

@Crozame.4098 said:Then why ANET cannot make an amulet only with healing power (why cannot we break the norm for better balance?) And why ANET cannot bring back those two stats?

Pretty silly, we should have a amulet only with Power stat, nothing else and another with only Condition damage, nothing else

[Crozame.4098]

@pikachu.2510 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:Then why ANET cannot make an amulet only with healing power (why cannot we break the norm for better balance?) And why ANET cannot bring back those two stats?

Pretty silly, we should have a amulet only with Power stat, nothing else and another with only Condition damage, nothing else

If that makes the game better, why not?

[pikachu.2510]

@Crozame.4098 said:

@pikachu.2510 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:Then why ANET cannot make an amulet only with healing power (why cannot we break the norm for better balance?) And why ANET cannot bring back those two stats?

Pretty silly, we should have a amulet only with Power stat, nothing else and another with only Condition damage, nothing else

If that makes the game better, why not?

probably not, you will hurt power builds more than anything imo

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Mender's isn't the problem.

Supports in general are too buffed in this current patching. <- This is the problem.

It's rather hilarious how "supports" are hella tanky with tons of utility AND decent-ish damage when compared to actual DPS builds (outside revenant).

Once upon a time it worked like this:

• Team Fighters were slow, dealt lots of AoE damage and CC output, had little to no support at all.
• Supports were slow, dealt little to no damage or CC at all, mid grade selfish sustain, but had a lot of support
• DPS +er Roamer was fast, dealt a lot of single target damage and CC, had bad sustain and no support.

• Side Node Duelists or Bunkers had a lot of selfish sustain and no real support, dealt small damage and had medium mobility.
  Players speak of fables & myths from these times, when the game felt balanced.

But now we have this:

• Team Fight Support Side Noder Bunkers that deal a lot of AoE damage and CC, medium mobility at worst, over buffed support boons and healing, strong self sustain.
• DPS +er Roamer that's not as fast as it used to be, deals less damage to single targets than AoE team fight builds, has no support.
• And then other builds that no longer have a job role because they aren't a DPS +er Roamer, and they aren't as good at Team Fight Support Side Node Bunkering as the current over buffed Support Gods.

I mean essentially what they started doing was they looked at anything that spit support, and just started buffing them way way too much. I don't know who's idea it was to make sure that "All Supports should deal Reaper like AoE damage but maintain maximum levels of support" but it was a stupid idea.

Supports have always held some "premium" / very good CC, though. Old-school support druid could frequently apply daze in an area, immob x 2 and cripple + knockback. Support firebrand had plenty of CC in F3 and F1, staff 5 has always been a game-changer in a lot of ways. To name a few examples.

Also, bunker does not = side noder duelist. Bunkers back in the day were able to hold a node 1v3 if they were allowed to cap. Side noder has traditionally been able to hold 1v2 max, and goes down to well-timed CC and burst. Bunkers had plenty of qualities overlapping with supports as well, and the two leeched off each other efficiently.

[ollbirtan.2915]

@Trevor Boyer.6524
Supports - (not bunkers) still have next to zero damage. Please check your facts before posting false information.