ANET outside TP trading and stuff talk

[MrForsesss.1364]

Do you think Anet will do something about the outside TP and trading through guild bank?

and how they know, according to them, in which direction ANET directs the game in order to profit from the situation and make money? and it is not against the rule hoarding all that mystic coin or any other object just for manipulate the market?

[Parasite.5389]

please explain how this has ruined your game experience

[Infusion.7149]

Do you get mad when people with a billion dollars boast in real life too? Because people with extremely high disposable income could just convert gems to gold and crash whatever MMO market they want to.

Worry about accessibility of necessities for the general playerbase such as ascended trinkets, armor, and weapons. Mystic coins and infusions aren't necessities. Mystic coins are obtainable by the average player just by logging in and playing the game (ley line anomaly , fractal RNG drops, WVW reward track, PVP automated tournaments).

It's the same thing with people complaining about expensive optional collections.

This is the reason why I suggested WvW rank requirements be lowered for the masteries for example and also why things like ascended weapons dropping in price and gaining alternate acquisition methods is good for the game. Now legendary armor costs the same as I paid for ascended light armor.

TL;DR : don't worry about how other people play the game and advocate for changes that actually benefit the majority of the player-base with <1000 gold and <4000g liquid assets. https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/statistics.gold'

P.S. People doing trades outside the Trading Post do so at their own risk. The people with 30K hours ingame (>8 hours a day) could have gotten a new car if they spent that time doing something productive... unless they make actual income off GW2

[Blocki.4931]

Never seen a community so bent on destroying other people's wealth ingame.

[Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.294]

@"Blocki.4931" said:Never seen a community so bent on destroying other people's wealth ingame.

Meh...It's the current "trend" in IRL right now with the whole cancel culture. I see it as simply bleed-over from IRL. Whether that is intentional or unintentional is a different matter, one that I do not have an opinion one way or the other with respect to this thread.

[Cuks.8241]

@MrForsesss.1364 said:Have you see this guy talks? how this should be fine and not ruin the game experience for all of us

Maybe first explain why this is not fine since you brought it up?

[Mini.4806]

@"Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946" said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:Never seen a community so bent on destroying other people's wealth ingame.

Meh...It's the current "trend" in IRL right now with the whole cancel culture. I see it as simply bleed-over from IRL. Whether that is intentional or unintentional is a different matter, one that I do not have an opinion one way or the other with respect to this thread.

I mean, you could look at it as a microcosm of a larger social problem in that the hoarding of wealth and goods creates a false stability that could immediately devalue everyone's assets if just one wealthy person decided to flood a particular market, for example. Of course, these are merely non-essential assets in a fictional world with arbitrary values, but the real life consequences of a wealthy few hoarding untold billions and trillions of untaxed dollars actually does hurt an economy and makes it that much harder for anyone else to get ahead because we're forever competing for an ever-smaller "slice" of the economic pie.

[Luthan.5236]

2 hours video ... not gonna watch the whole vid. OP should have explained the most important parts he is refering to. Coin prices are good for sellers - cause they are high. Something that is good for one player migh be bad for the other one. (People buying them would need to farm more for themselves ... needing a lot more time - with higher prices.)

Trading outside the TP is "not supported". Afaik none of the stuff lost by scamming (while scamming still is forbidden and scammers might get a ban) is restored by the support.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

WP doesn't 'know' which direction ArenaNet directs the game. Like any invested player, he may guess/speculate, but that's all.

[Essence Snow.3194]

Meh...wealth inequality is mostly due to trading. It has had massive influence on wvw where guilds have been paid to transfer. I debated with JS years ago about it, but in his opinion his system was perfect. Time has proved otherwise.

[Veprovina.4876]

How are the rich players ruining anything for me again?I mean, Anet allows it, they're not doing anything against the rules so...

I can still play the game with my limited "wealth" and have fun, i can still buy stuff and sell on TP.I just play the "other" game as in actually playing. They're playing the TP. If someone's into that, let them, and it's not exclusive to "barons" you can do it too. But i imagine that sort of thing is boring for the majority of players. Those that like that sort of thing though - they get rich. It's as simple as that.

You don't need a lot of money in the game to do literally everything though so... I don't know what's so wrong for someone to hoard wealth.

[Infusion.7149]

@"Mini.4806" said:I mean, you could look at it as a microcosm of a larger social problem in that the hoarding of wealth and goods creates a false stability that could immediately devalue everyone's assets if just one wealthy person decided to flood a particular market, for example. Of course, these are merely non-essential assets in a fictional world with arbitrary values, but the real life consequences of a wealthy few hoarding untold billions and trillions of untaxed dollars actually does hurt an economy and makes it that much harder for anyone else to get ahead because we're forever competing for an ever-smaller "slice" of the economic pie.

This is a really naive outlook. People don't put their money under the mattress, they put it into investments , goods, and services which fuels the economy (similar to what is mentioned in the video that this thread is about). Sure the long term capital gains tax (which is lower than earned income tax) and tax shelters could be looked at but it's not "hoarding untaxed dollars".

What the guild is doing is equal to venture capital or franchising.

P.S. if you actually watch or listen the video they even say that any market they flood will have a correction in less than a few months. In addition, the video guests stated that people claiming the game has no content aren't playing the game right, since spirit shards are necessary for the things people want (legendaries).

[T G.7496]

It's a game man.

Both you and he would do well to develop a sense of perspective, and perhaps a more meaningful real life.

[zealex.9410]

How ppl choose to trade doesnt really affect me and i struggle to see how it affects others negatively.

[MrForsesss.1364]

@Parasite.5389 said:please explain how this has ruined your game experience

Let me explain simply: everything that isn't on TP, aren't in the honest market (TP) which means the supply (in the Honest market) isn't enough for the actual demand of the normal player that play legally and the price go up (see the Mystic coin status) and the only people that make a profit on this situation are TP baron and this Millionaire. The other player with less gold not and for sure not like them. They move so much material and gold etc. that make the crafting process for us more expensive in general.

After all that what's the point to have all that gold? what they do with that(nothing they just accumulate money for nothing, right.)? Do they sell it on other sites? are u sure that all the money they make don't make the gold itself a useless value with less economical power and making Anet forced to make decisions that change the cost of all items from the various merchant and other forced economical transition (like a higher tax on the TP etc. ) just for rebalance the situation?However, for all of us, it's not a good thing if material and all the other stuff are hoarded like that, I do not understand why all of u are defending this player that are breaking the rule and potentially ruining the TP (and it depends from person to person even the game experience). are there all graduates in economics saying that the market will have a correction in less than a few months. do they know what's the equilibrium of the market price for all the object and material in the market? I don't think so, there are so many unpredictable things that you can't calculate that goes beyond the statistic of the sold and buy. (if they do, I feel I need to do this calculation too because I just don't want to get scam by a fluctuating market)

In the video, they say to sell the explorer gift and I think it's a scam(low estimating the price of it). All that they say in the video are stuff from they can make a profit on your work. the only god stuff they say don't sell T6 material and the recipe of Spirit shard. They in the video literally advertise their illegal reddit, encouraging the player to leave the TP for the black market (which is bannable). If the Tax on TP exist there is a reason.

[Infusion.7149]

A higher tax on the TP actually hurts the average player more than hurts TP barons which do trading via off the TP or with mail. TP tax is essentially a regressive tax similar to a gas tax or a tax on basic food staples. What you want is a luxury tax, which is essentially what legendary weapons are for the most part (a gold and material sink) as well as the gold sink guildhall decoration and useless "I'm rich you know" title.

Have you even had an econ class before? If you're fiscally responsible unless you play WvW competitively (the only mode where the food , utility, and siege + karka potions will drain you more than you get from it) you will accumulate gold. Materials are being flooded into the market with the factions support events, so I'm not even sure why you bring up materials either. I'm not sure how 500g for a Gift of Mastery is a scam either if both parties get what they want, https://gw2efficiency.com/crafting/legendariesTrading Post profit on :

• Sunrise is 800g not including Gift of Battle
• Juggernaut , Meteorlogicus, Rodgort , & Bifrost is 600g not including Gift of Battle

The only time it is a problem is if there is RMT (real money trading) involved. Policing that is difficult when guild banks are involved so account monitoring based off activity should be in place.

One of the players that I know that is independently wealthy outside of the game ("IRL") dumped >$100 USD to buy legendaries off the TP via gems to gold to give away to his guildmates in a raffle. Most players opt for that legitimate route if they do want to "buy gold".

[Ayrilana.1396]

@MrForsesss.1364 said:

@"Parasite.5389" said:please explain how this has ruined your game experience

Let me explain simply: everything that isn't on TP, aren't in the honest market (TP) which means the supply (in the Honest market) isn't enough for the actual demand of the normal player that play legally and the price go up (see the Mystic coin status) and the only people that make a profit on this situation are TP baron and this Millionaire. The other player with less gold not and for sure not like them. They move so much material and gold etc. that make the crafting process for us more expensive in general.

There's nothing dishonest about trading outside of the TP. You labeling it as such is just your own personal bias against it.

Not everyone that trades outside of the TP is a TP baron or millionaire. Plenty of other players do it to get a better deal.

After all that what's the point to have all that gold? what they do with that(nothing they just accumulate money for nothing, right.)? Do they sell it on other sites? are u sure that all the money they make don't make the gold itself a useless value with less economical power and making Anet forced to make decisions that change the cost of all items from the various merchant and other forced economical transition (like a higher tax on the TP etc. ) just for rebalance the situation?

What's the point in grinding AP? What's the point in grinding armor/weapon skins? What's the point in doing anything in the game? People grind the gold as it's something that they enjoy doing. There's nothing nefarious about what they're doing despite what you're trying to inaccurately portray.

However, for all of us, it's not a good thing if material and all the other stuff are hoarded like that, I do not understand why all of u are defending this player that are breaking the rule and potentially ruining the TP (and it depends from person to person even the game experience). are there all graduates in economics saying that the market will have a correction in less than a few months. do they know what's the equilibrium of the market price for all the object and material in the market? I don't think so, there are so many unpredictable things that you can't calculate that goes beyond the statistic of the sold and buy. (if they do, I feel I need to do this calculation too because I just don't want to get scam by a fluctuating market)

Please don't use "all of us" when you certainly do not represent everyone and especially since a lot of what you have stated in this thread is incredibly biased and based on nothing but your personal opinion.

If they're breaking a rule then by all means point out that rule. There's a difference between something being against the rules and it being unsupported. The use of 3rd party apps such as GW2Taco and ArcDPS are not against the rules but they're certainly unsupported by Anet. Those that trade outside of the TP do so at their own risk.

In the video, they say to sell the explorer gift and I think it's a scam(low estimating the price of it). All that they say in the video are stuff from they can make a profit on your work. the only god stuff they say don't sell T6 material and the recipe of Spirit shard. They in the video literally advertise their illegal reddit, encouraging the player to leave the TP for the black market (which is bannable). If the Tax on TP exist there is a reason.

As stated above, please provide proof that it's illegal or against the rules. Keep in mind that legality is something completely different from being against the game's rules.

[kharmin.7683]

People trading outside of the in-game market in no way affects any other player's ability to complete content. The premise of this thread is flawed.

[ugrakarma.9416]

is their bussness, their risk. the risk of take a default. Anet said in the past, that they washes their hands in case a player get problems doing business outside the game.

[Parasite.5389]

@MrForsesss.1364 said:

@Parasite.5389 said:please explain how this has ruined your game experience

Let me explain simply: everything that isn't on TP, aren't in the honest market (TP) which means the supply (in the Honest market) isn't enough for the actual demand of the normal player that play legally and the price go up (see the Mystic coin status) and the only people that make a profit on this situation are TP baron and this Millionaire. The other player with less gold not and for sure not like them. They move so much material and gold etc. that make the crafting process for us more expensive in general.

After all that what's the point to have all that gold? what they do with that(nothing they just accumulate money for nothing, right.)? Do they sell it on other sites? are u sure that all the money they make don't make the gold itself a useless value with less economical power and making Anet forced to make decisions that change the cost of all items from the various merchant and other forced economical transition (like a higher tax on the TP etc. ) just for rebalance the situation?However, for all of us, it's not a good thing if material and all the other stuff are hoarded like that, I do not understand why all of u are defending this player that are breaking the rule and potentially ruining the TP (and it depends from person to person even the game experience). are there all graduates in economics saying that the market will have a correction in less than a few months. do they know what's the equilibrium of the market price for all the object and material in the market? I don't think so, there are so many unpredictable things that you can't calculate that goes beyond the statistic of the sold and buy. (if they do, I feel I need to do this calculation too because I just don't want to get scam by a fluctuating market)

In the video, they say to sell the explorer gift and I think it's a scam(low estimating the price of it). All that they say in the video are stuff from they can make a profit on your work. the only god stuff they say don't sell T6 material and the recipe of Spirit shard. They in the video literally advertise their illegal reddit, encouraging the player to leave the TP for the black market (which is bannable). If the Tax on TP exist there is a reason.

... but that didn't answer my question: how is this ruining YOUR gaming experience?

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Essence Snow.3194 said:Meh...wealth inequality is mostly due to trading. It has had massive influence on wvw where guilds have been paid to transfer. I debated with JS years ago about it, but in his opinion his system was perfect. Time has proved otherwise.

Guilds getting bought is a symptom of the state WvW is in, not the overall health of the economy. If people had incentive to stay, or were punished for repeated transfers, they wouldn't get bought.

I have extremely low account equity because all I do is WvW, and have saved every Mystic Coin from login rewards and drops since inception. I've never made/bought a legendary.

Mystic Coins account for like 70% of my account wealth as a consequence, which when sold in small chunks, is what fuels the rare skin purchase and maintains my account value, like an investment or bond, because the value of when I earned them holds, and sometimes appreciates, even when gold inflates. There are just less players in the game now actively playing, so access drops as the number of casual sellers is decreasing. The availability is actually as intended per the scope of them being login rewards.

It's actually a REALLY good system to secure the accrued wealth of longtime casual/PvP/WvW players and not have them completely detached from the economy in ways which they can never recover into without immense grinding, which generally-speaking, is a task so monumental that most players just get up and quit.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

If trading outside the Trading Post ruins the economy, I wonder how Guild Wars fared so well for so long.
Though, I'm certainly glad we no longer have to experience Spamadam.

[Cuks.8241]

@MrForsesss.1364 said:are there all graduates in economics saying that the market will have a correction in less than a few months. do they know what's the equilibrium of the market price for all the object and material in the market? I don't think so, there are so many unpredictable things that you can't calculate that goes beyond the statistic of the sold and buy. (if they do, I feel I need to do this calculation too because I just don't want to get scam by a fluctuating market)

In the video, they say to sell the explorer gift and I think it's a scam(low estimating the price of it). All that they say in the video are stuff from they can make a profit on your work.

I'm just going to comment 2 things and leave the obvious personal bias aside.They should have enough data to estimate the correction. They know how much stuff they have because well it's their stuff. The data on the amount of materials that is being moved through the market is publicly available. This should be enough for a decent estimation. They are also the best equipped to know from experience besides Anet themselves.

If you think the price for a gift of exploration is too low then don't sell. No one is being forced to sell their gifts and anyone can put their own price on it. You can also barter but if you are pulling out this kind of talk maybe first just do the calculation on the profit of making and selling a legendary and you should get a decent valuation.I can tell you one thing though. After this video came out there were players that were able to get a nice bump in cash flow by connecting with these people, fast track their initial gold gains by selling the gift and were able to fund their own legendaries within months of playing the game.

One of the main points of the video is also how to maximise your profit from the content you like to play (i.e. you like exploring?, need gold?, sell gift). How to turn your materials into more valuable stuff. How to use all the materials you have as more are useful then it appears at a glance. And no it's not just t5 to t6 materials that is just an example which is not really a very good one nowadays because everyone does it and t6 materials are not as scarce as what they used to be. And by doing it you actually equilibrate the market.

[vandrefalk.6823]

There's a whole reddit sub specialising in trades between players to cut out the TP fees. I'm thinking it's a very small percentage who do this anyway, and unless what they do impact the game economy very negatively for all of us, I don't bother with changing it. The 1% who are already rich getting even richer, in the game, good for them, but if it's at our expense, I hope Anet would regulate it somehow.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Essence Snow.3194 said:I debated with JS years ago about it, but in his opinion his system was perfect. Time has proved otherwise.Notice, that he always considered the system to be of greater value than the players it serves and always ignored the impact on individual players (because he considered them to be completely unimportant - nothing more than mere statistics on a chart). And he always said that things like player dissatisfaction caused by some of the consequences of economic designs (or any other consequences that would not be purely economic in nature, and would be felt mainly outside the market) are not his area of expertise.

Considering this approach, the system we've got turned out to be actually quite good.

@Dondarrion.2748 said:There's a whole reddit sub specialising in trades between players to cut out the TP fees. I'm thinking it's a very small percentage who do this anyway, and unless what they do impact the game economy very negatively for all of us, I don't bother with changing it. The 1% who are already rich getting even richer, in the game, good for them, but if it's at our expense, I hope Anet would regulate it somehow.They can't, really, without impacting a ton of other things you probably would not want to be affected. Still, they do sometimes intervene indirectly. The last attempt at increasing drop rates of certain infusions was such a move. And the fact that they've decided to make it shows we can probably expect more of those in the future.