Nerf mirage pls?

[Vancho.8750]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:The only two mesmer skills that bug me atm are Magic Bullet and Mantra of Distraction.

One comes out far too quick to be humanly reactable, (1/4 second) and it looks and sounds extremely similar to duelist, so you could easily end up wasting a dodge if you try reacting to it. The other litearlly has no tell. It's a 1 second instant cast daze that they can spam you with as their team trains you down, and it's extremely annoying to deal with. There's virtually no counterplay to it.

Those two abilities aside, Mesmer's kit has been butchered enough. If anything, the class as a whole could use a buff.

magic bullet has 1/2s cast time, very noticable sound queue and travel time

My mistake there, it is 1/2 seconds.

Still, i'm 90% sure the sound queue is unreactable considering it happens at the end of the animation, and the travel time, for all intents and purposes, may as well be instant, especially at close range. It's one of the fastest projectiles in the game.

You also can't distinguish the sound from duelist. Even if it is possible to react to the sound, factoring in ping (mine is 64 for context), you'll end up wasting a dodges on duelist if you go by sound alone.

I wouldn't nerf the stun duration though or anything like that, but I would move the sound queue back a bit and change the pitch. You could even reduce the cast time(hand waving) to 1/4 seconds, but give the bullet a 1/4 second delay before it fires (you could put a unique animation here). You'd actually end up buffing the ability in some cases since it'll be harder to interrupt, while making it a tad less frustrating.

Magic bullet isn't the only ability I'd give this sort of treatment to btw, I wouldn't mind there being a sweeping pass on the game to improve clarity across the board.Spinal Shivers, for example would have a chilly mist swirl around the target before it hits. Battering ram would be an actual mechanical ram that does a headbutt animation on the target, ect.

Your suggestion of the bullet "lingering" in the air for a bit is an interesting one. Though to be honest the main problem is that duelist animation is too similar.I don't think this is just mesmer problem it is kinda general problem with allot of ranged attacks in the game. For some reason mesmer has on of the good telegraphed ranged weapons, the GS, even though its supposed to be the class with the magic tricks, but it does have some iffy animations on other weapons. Stuff gets really wishy washy like for example ,Ranger Longbow or Warrior Rifle where every projectile looks like the basic attack.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Kuma.1503 said:The only two mesmer skills that bug me atm are Magic Bullet and Mantra of Distraction.

One comes out far too quick to be humanly reactable, (1/4 second) and it looks and sounds extremely similar to duelist, so you could easily end up wasting a dodge if you try reacting to it. The other litearlly has no tell. It's a 1 second instant cast daze that they can spam you with as their team trains you down, and it's extremely annoying to deal with. There's virtually no counterplay to it.

Those two abilities aside, Mesmer's kit has been butchered enough. If anything, the class as a whole could use a buff.

This. Druid has 2 dazes, and they're balanced by the fact one has a massive windup, the other places you in the danger zone (adjacent) to your targets.

[Zinzon.4081]

@Kuma.1503 said:The only two mesmer skills that bug me atm are Magic Bullet and Mantra of Distraction.

One comes out far too quick to be humanly reactable, (1/4 second) and it looks and sounds extremely similar to duelist, so you could easily end up wasting a dodge if you try reacting to it. The other litearlly has no tell. It's a 1 second instant cast daze that they can spam you with as their team trains you down, and it's extremely annoying to deal with. There's virtually no counterplay to it.

Those two abilities aside, Mesmer's kit has been butchered enough. If anything, the class as a whole could use a buff.

I mean at this point if you destroy this mantra, you nerf core, chrono and mirage since its the last bastion of defense for power mesmer... And it can be countered by applying stability before your healing skill or your burst. Simple as that!

[Master Ketsu.4569]

As has been said many times before, Mesmer does not need nerfs. The class needs a rework to bring it away from clonespam. The current overall design of Mesmer is mechanically bad for the game.

[Quadox.7834]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:As has been said many times before, Mesmer does not need nerfs. The class needs a rework to bring it away from clonespam. The current overall design of Mesmer is mechanically bad for the game.

What do you mean by clonespam and in what way does the current mesmer meta rely on it?

[Quadox.7834]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:The only two mesmer skills that bug me atm are Magic Bullet and Mantra of Distraction.

One comes out far too quick to be humanly reactable, (1/4 second) and it looks and sounds extremely similar to duelist, so you could easily end up wasting a dodge if you try reacting to it. The other litearlly has no tell. It's a 1 second instant cast daze that they can spam you with as their team trains you down, and it's extremely annoying to deal with. There's virtually no counterplay to it.

Those two abilities aside, Mesmer's kit has been butchered enough. If anything, the class as a whole could use a buff.

This. Druid has 2 dazes, and they're balanced by the fact one has a massive windup, the other places you in the danger zone (adjacent) to your targets.

They are balanced by the fact that they have other uses besides daze, namely healing and stunbreak

[Quadox.7834]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:The only two mesmer skills that bug me atm are Magic Bullet and Mantra of Distraction.

One comes out far too quick to be humanly reactable, (1/4 second) and it looks and sounds extremely similar to duelist, so you could easily end up wasting a dodge if you try reacting to it. The other litearlly has no tell. It's a 1 second instant cast daze that they can spam you with as their team trains you down, and it's extremely annoying to deal with. There's virtually no counterplay to it.

Those two abilities aside, Mesmer's kit has been butchered enough. If anything, the class as a whole could use a buff.

magic bullet has 1/2s cast time, very noticable sound queue and travel time

My mistake there, it is 1/2 seconds.

Still, i'm 90% sure the sound queue is unreactable considering it happens at the end of the animation, and the travel time, for all intents and purposes, may as well be instant, especially at close range. It's one of the fastest projectiles in the game.

You also can't distinguish the sound from duelist. Even if it is possible to react to the sound, factoring in ping (mine is 64 for context), you'll end up wasting a dodges on duelist if you go by sound alone.

I wouldn't nerf the stun duration though or anything like that, but I would move the sound queue back a bit and change the pitch. You could even reduce the cast time(hand waving) to 1/4 seconds, but give the bullet a 1/4 second delay before it fires (you could put a unique animation here). You'd actually end up buffing the ability in some cases since it'll be harder to interrupt, while making it a tad less frustrating.

Magic bullet isn't the only ability I'd give this sort of treatment to btw, I wouldn't mind there being a sweeping pass on the game to improve clarity across the board.Spinal Shivers, for example would have a chilly mist swirl around the target before it hits. Battering ram would be an actual mechanical ram that does a headbutt animation on the target, ect.

Your suggestion of the bullet "lingering" in the air for a bit is an interesting one. Though to be honest the main problem is that duelist animation is too similar.I don't think this is just mesmer problem it is kinda general problem with allot of ranged attacks in the game. For some reason mesmer has on of the good telegraphed ranged weapons, the GS, even though its supposed to be the class with the magic tricks, but it does have some iffy animations on other weapons. Stuff gets really wishy washy like for example ,Ranger Longbow or Warrior Rifle where every projectile looks like the basic attack.

Yes definitely. They added the lb4 windup animation (spinning thing) a long time ago for this reason, which was a good change. Before that point-blank-shot just looked like a regular auto pretty much.

[Dadnir.5038]

There are still mesmer in sPvP? With how this subforum picture it I thought there were only necromancers, guardians and revenants in this gamemode.Thought I must admit that a warrior complaining about a mesmer in this context it rather refreshing.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:The only two mesmer skills that bug me atm are Magic Bullet and Mantra of Distraction.

One comes out far too quick to be humanly reactable, (1/4 second) and it looks and sounds extremely similar to duelist, so you could easily end up wasting a dodge if you try reacting to it. The other litearlly has no tell. It's a 1 second instant cast daze that they can spam you with as their team trains you down, and it's extremely annoying to deal with. There's virtually no counterplay to it.

Those two abilities aside, Mesmer's kit has been butchered enough. If anything, the class as a whole could use a buff.

This. Druid has 2 dazes, and they're balanced by the fact one has a massive windup, the other places you in the danger zone (adjacent) to your targets.

They are balanced by the fact that they have other uses besides daze, namely healing and stunbreak

Because Glyphs are so useful on druid either way .

[Axl.8924]

Can we not ruin mirage with unecessary nerfs?

If we have to make changes then do so carefully, but knowing how ANET uses a chainsaw instead of a chisel for some stuff, i'd rather not take my chances.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Make distortion a channeled skill

[Daishi.6027]

All of mirage's offensive burst options (you know, the thing that will kill you) are paired with, or intrinsically covered by defense and on substantial cooldowns, and when they are not the resource being used is occupied. If they are trying to set you up for a big burst all you have to do is defend when they attack and they will have only a little remaining to try and defend themselves with. Since the nerfs the sustain damage is fairly low you mostly can just avoid the burst and win.Alternatively if you are thief, just force Mesmer to use defensive cooldowns in ways that the Mesmer cannot respond, due to the reliance on AI positioning to actually do damage; then win the war of attrition simply because you get yours back faster.

But if you guys want to nerf mesmer HARD, just kill illusion signet and condi mirage can't come back from it. Might as well honestly.

[Quadox.7834]

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:Make distortion a channeled skill

desert distortion

[Quadox.7834]

if you want to beat condi mirage, stop trying to fight it "normally" at the start of the duel. play defensive for 30 secs or something, when he has used shatters and signet of illusions he doesnt have much juice left. and be aware that if you avoid torch burn (or cleanse it), the majority of the damage comes from confusion, which has a very low duration, and can often be countered by not using many skills. also, kill clones if you see an opportunity to do so.

[JazzXman.7018]

fits here better probably lolhttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1451177#Comment_1451177

[Axl.8924]

If they keep up with the nerfs this game will be dead for real. After mesmers and nec are deleted its back to thief then prob guardian again then what? then all builds are gonna be bad?

Why not improve the counters to mes and or educate yourself on how to defeat mirage instead of senselessly massacring builds until they are no more?

[GuriGashi.5617]

Mirage is in every way more oppressive than thief ever was

[Avatar.3568]

@snoow.1694 said:Mirage is in every way more oppressive than thief ever was

No, that's just not true

[Axl.8924]

@snoow.1694 said:Mirage is in every way more oppressive than thief ever was

The issue with thief is the combination of fast movements which has been dealt with somewhat by nerfing damage, but the problem is still there.

I honestly don't know how to solve the issues, as thief is balanced around using stealth to survive, and if you take away stealth and their teleports, you wil need to increase their damage dramatically, and give them invulns.

Thieves are squishy without their mobility and stealth, because they are balanced around using it, like the way mirage are probably.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Axl.8924 said:

@snoow.1694 said:Mirage is in every way more oppressive than thief ever was

The issue with thief is the combination of fast movements which has been dealt with somewhat by nerfing damage, but the problem is still there.

I honestly don't know how to solve the issues, as thief is balanced around using stealth to survive, and if you take away stealth and their teleports, you wil need to increase their damage dramatically, and give them invulns.

Thieves are squishy without their mobility and stealth, because they are balanced around using it, like the way mirage are probably.

the issue with thief is 0 cooldowns and 100% stealth uptime, leading to 0 fun and 0 counterplay gameplay.thief still has 0 counterplay, people are just too tanky for them, nerf the sustain and we back to better thief wins.