It is official, the game is actually ruined from match manipulation.

[suialthor.7164]

All week has been broken match making but the last two days has been an insane amount afkers and match manipulation.   

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

19 minutes ago, suialthor.7164 said:

All week has been broken match making but the last two days has been an insane amount afkers and match manipulation.   

 

Yup and it's far beyond "handing out suspensions" or "banning people". At this point something needs to change with solo/duo only ranked. The entire format of solo/duo only is as if it was designed purposely to encourage, support, and reward match manipulation.

 

I've said it several times now, gonna say it again:

 

* Move ranked rewards to unranked

* Move ranked rating system/badge icons to short AT seasons that begin and end with MATs.

 

There are so many reasons why this would make everything so so much better.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Yeah I absolutely give up on ranked the way it is now. It is seriously impossible to avoid these win trade groups anymore.

 

I do also want to advocate the idea that people shouldn't be silent about it when they know people are clearly and very obviously cheating them in matches. By remaining silent, we avoid a nature type of social cause & effect that is supposed to let cheaters know what the repercussions are for cheating. Normally, when a person is caught cheating in anything, the community comes down on them and makes example of them, and let's them know they are not respected. This kind of thing is a necessary mechanic socially to discourage cheating. But for some reason in this GW2 pvp community, people are strangely complacently silent and allow these serial cheaters to do what they do and feel good about it without any backlash.

 

It's time to let these people know very directly how we feel about the match manipulation. Don't be shy about it. Make it public in /m chat, have a solid 1 on 1 conversation with them, drop in on their streams. If Arenanet doesn't want to take care of the problem, the community should start doing it. Cheaters are supposed to be ostracized, not the legit clean players.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Same thing happened to me tonight when I logged in to recap decay (busy week). After a certain hour, it's nothing but win traders and bots (~1 AM, roughly, give or take 30 mins).

I'm uncertain which is more pitiful; win trading or Anet refusing to properly punish people for it.

[Faux Play.6104]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yeah I absolutely give up on ranked the way it is now. It is seriously impossible to avoid these win trade groups anymore.

 

I do also want to advocate the idea that people shouldn't be silent about it when they know people are clearly and very obviously cheating them in matches. By remaining silent, we avoid a nature type of social cause & effect that is supposed to let cheaters know what the repercussions are for cheating. Normally, when a person is caught cheating in anything, the community comes down on them and makes example of them, and let's them know they are not respected. This kind of thing is a necessary mechanic socially to discourage cheating. But for some reason in this GW2 pvp community, people are strangely complacently silent and allow these serial cheaters to do what they do and feel good about it without any backlash.

 

It's time to let these people know very directly how we feel about the match manipulation. Don't be shy about it. Make it public in /m chat, have a solid 1 on 1 conversation with them, drop in on their streams. If Arenanet doesn't want to take care of the problem, the community should start doing it. Cheaters are supposed to be ostracized, not the legit clean players.

 

Get rid of duo queue, and force people to authenticate to a phone number to play ranked.  Multiple alts with separate ratings is the best way to manipulate the match maker.  Tank an accounts rating then queue with your buddy that is working on the account they care about.  You get matched with a lower rated team that you can easily dominate.

[Abyssisis.3971]

I basically just do the dailies and do something else as it’s not worth the frustration dealing with the bs anet refuses to or are incapable of dealing with. 

[mistsim.2748]

Hey bro if you wanna change anything you gotta meme about it on Reddit so that ANet feels embarrassed and concedes. They only listen to memes.

Edited May 9, 2021 by mistsim.2748

[Crab Fear.1624]

Trev

just do the ganks

let go

have fun

you are not the best, you never will be...

 

but...you are quite renown for your ganks.....

 

bro...

 

relish...

 

people actually change skills when they see Gank...

 

you made it

[Stand The Wall.6987]

4 hours ago, Faux Play.6104 said:

 

Get rid of duo queue, and force people to authenticate to a phone number to play ranked.  Multiple alts with separate ratings is the best way to manipulate the match maker.  Tank an accounts rating then queue with your buddy that is working on the account they care about.  You get matched with a lower rated team that you can easily dominate.

i would absolutely refuse to play ranked if they required phone authentication. authentication and linking accounts and all that jazz really annoys the hell outta me. game isn't even that good to feel compelled to go thru the extra hoop anyways.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

6 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

i would absolutely refuse to play ranked if they required phone authentication. authentication and linking accounts and all that jazz really annoys the hell outta me. game isn't even that good to feel compelled to go thru the extra hoop anyways.

 

Yeah, this is too far. They could just pilot not allowing people who havent bought at least the base game (HoT now?) to queue for ranked (they can still queue for unranked).

 

That way if people wanna smurf in ranked they have to put money on another account. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

12 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Trev

just do the ganks

let go

have fun

you are not the best, you never will be...

 

but...you are quite renown for your ganks.....

 

bro...

 

relish...

 

people actually change skills when they see Gank...

 

you made it

 

I just want a game mode that is actually real again. This problem is so bad that the game mode isn't even real anymore. It's not even a game. It's a platform to support streaming crews so they can look good on stream. Very seriously, when you queue ranked, that's all it is anymore. With population so low you can no longer avoid these people and their infinitely growing list of alternative accounts often enough, to be able to climb the leaderboard when you're getting +8 on wins and -20 on loss. Just about every queue nowadays is funneling you into these groups of people doing this and it's insulting man. It's like that show "Punked" but only it's happening on someone's stream, and the legit clean community are the ones on the bad end of the joke show.

 

I was not joking when I rallied for the community to: "Stop playing ranked". When these people are online who do this, boycott them. Don't queue ranked. Do something else. Stop feeding their system that they benefit from. They ought to learn a lesson from what they've done, not be patted on the back for it.

 

Match manipulation is so standardized at this point, notice that not even a single person has come into this thread to cry conspiracy or post a comment as if win trading weren't happening, like they used to do. I mean... that says a lot about the state that the game is in.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

If anyone cares to see a fine example of the throw wars in last 24 hours, click my signature link and watch the most recent broadcast. Fast forward to the two matches. Amazing footage I do have to say. Perfect example of everything being discussed in this thread.

 

Welp that's all that needed to be said. Guess I'm done here.

[RedAvenged.5217]

18 hours ago, Faux Play.6104 said:

 

Get rid of duo queue, and force people to authenticate to a phone number to play ranked.  Multiple alts with separate ratings is the best way to manipulate the match maker.  Tank an accounts rating then queue with your buddy that is working on the account they care about.  You get matched with a lower rated team that you can easily dominate.

This won’t help with the wintrading. The wintrader on the top of Na leaderboard rn doesn’t even duo. He has a certain player who also wintraded for a top title on Eu , sync q with him on multi account and dc whenever he’s on the same team and just afk when he’s on the other.

 

the person in question is actually so bad that me and few solo qers were stomping him when we were actually 4v5, but it doesn’t matter since he has a high teir gamer sync Qing on 10 different accounts just to get him 1 or 2 wins at a time.

 

edit: there’s clips of this nearly legend 2 player getting free win solo Qing cuz of this and Eu players confirming it’s the same guy on multi accounts

Edited May 9, 2021 by RedAvenged.5217

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

43 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

This won’t help with the wintrading. The wintrader on the top of Na leaderboard rn doesn’t even duo. He has a certain player who also wintraded for a top title on Eu , sync q with him on multi account and dc whenever he’s on the same team and just afk when he’s on the other.

 

the person in question is actually so bad that me and few solo qers were stomping him when we were actually 4v5, but it doesn’t matter since he has a high teir gamer sync Qing on 10 different accounts just to get him 1 or 2 wins at a time.

 

edit: there’s clips of this nearly legend 2 player getting free win solo Qing cuz of this and Eu players confirming it’s the same guy on multi accounts

 

I can somewhat understand if a company did not want to tend to EVERY report of match manipulation. I get it. It's just a lot of time to spend sifting through reports that may never be able to be proven.

 

But when some of these guys are quite seriously online every day, blatantly & shamelessly win trading 100% of the time not even trying to hide it, come on man. Ban these people. Care about your product a bit.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[razaelll.8324]

On 8.05.2021 г. at 8:53 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

Yup and it's far beyond "handing out suspensions" or "banning people". At this point something needs to change with solo/duo only ranked. The entire format of solo/duo only is as if it was designed purposely to encourage, support, and reward match manipulation.

 

I've said it several times now, gonna say it again:

 

* Move ranked rewards to unranked

* Move ranked rating system/badge icons to short AT seasons that begin and end with MATs.

 

There are so many reasons why this would make everything so so much better.

 

 

I support you fully on fighting match manipulating and win traders,but i am strongly against ranks to go to ATs. Everybody should be able to queue for ranked at every minute of the day, ATs are at specific hours and i dont thinks it is right to force people to play at very specific hours for ranked.

 

Anet please do something for the afkers, wintraders in ranked, they ruin the whole game for all of the rest people in the match.

 

Have a great day!

Edited May 10, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

On 5/8/2021 at 7:29 PM, Faux Play.6104 said:

 

Get rid of duo queue, and force people to authenticate to a phone number to play ranked.  Multiple alts with separate ratings is the best way to manipulate the match maker.  Tank an accounts rating then queue with your buddy that is working on the account they care about.  You get matched with a lower rated team that you can easily dominate.

Just remove DuoQ and you'd be gucci.

 

Their alts don't even matter if they lose their metagaming crutch. It will be just like it was during seasons 9-12 if you played then.

 

Without DuoQ: ~60-70% of games won at the top, everyone is closer in ranking, and there's barely any legendary-rated players at all.

With DuoQ: 80, 90, even 100% of games won at the top, a huge divide between those who DuoQ and who don't, and every top player that Duos is always in or hovering around Legendary. Them and their alts; which, sometimes aren't even their accounts.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

4 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Just remove DuoQ and you'd be gucci.

 

Their alts don't even matter if they lose their metagaming crutch. It will be just like it was during seasons 9-12 if you played then.

 

Without DuoQ: ~60-70% of games won at the top, everyone is closer in ranking, and there's barely any legendary-rated players at all.

With DuoQ: 80, 90, even 100% of games won at the top, a huge divide between those who DuoQ and who don't, and every top player that Duos is always in or hovering around Legendary. Them and their alts; which, sometimes aren't even their accounts.

 

You always say this and I don't understand why. Solo or Duo will not matter. They will still win trade.

 

Let me explain why:

 

1. A person on their solo main account logs in. He contacts all his buddies and they go on alts. They go into a discord together.
2. They all push enter queue same time.
3. 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 people who are supporting the main still get into your game, with various alt synchs on your team and against and you have no chance of winning the match.

Solo or Duo has nothing to do with it. The only way to stop the win trading isn't even by stopping it, but rather allowing people to make 5 man teams so they can be wise enough to block themselves from it.

 

Rating/Badge icons being moved to ATs is the answer. 5 man teams won't work in ranked. In ranked, people can still queue dodge each other and the strongest players will never have to fight each other. They will just end up farming lower rated teams in ranked by doing this and it will kitten everyone off. But you can't queue dodge in ATs. Weaker teams get to face weaker teams in ATs and stronger teams will have to fight stronger teams. There are ways to sort of jank the system partially in ATs but not fully and certainly nothing to the magnitude of how exploitable solo/duo ranked is.

 

This is just how it should have always been. The system is clearly better. And to anyone who says "I don't want to have to play in a 5 man team to have a badge" well then I guess you don't want it badly enough. No offense but it's true. It is actually very easy to form pvp groups in the LFG, just as easy as fractals or HP trains w/e, it really is. Right now the badges in solo/duo aren't even real man. Right now we have some noticeably bad players riding up near top 20 lol, I mean like people who should be gold 3 tops but yet there they are nearing top 20. Then you have older well known reputable players that everyone knows is strong as hell but because they don't cheat, they ride bottom plat and touch g3 from time to time when they get that unlucky day riding into win trades. The system is completely botched due to all the match manipulation. If we want a rating/badge system that means something again, this stuff needs to slide to AT format for rating/badge.

 

The total games played for the end of a monthly AT season could easily be cut to half or less. 30 or 40 or 60 games even for a single month of ATs would be sufficient.

[Noz.4650]

I don't see how forcing people to have a full stack to enjoy ranked PvP will solve anything at all, you're just making the bar of entry even higher. If the experience is more complicated than clicking a button to queue up then people will not play your competitive game mode.

 

"it's easy to find PvP groups in the LFG" but I don't want to have to play with randoms to play "ranked", and in my case all my PvP friends stopped playing after HoT. Players like me are content with just soloqing, why should I be forced to find people to play with.

 

You need solutions that make PvP more accessible to bring players in to increase population, not repel the majority of it. ANet also needs to be better at enforcing their own rules and be more proactive at punishing win traders.

Edited May 10, 2021 by eksn.7264

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

46 minutes ago, eksn.7264 said:

I don't see how forcing people to have a full stack to enjoy ranked PvP will solve anything at all, you're just making the bar of entry even higher. If the experience is more complicated than clicking a button to queue up then people will not play your competitive game mode.

 

"it's easy to find PvP groups in the LFG" but I don't want to have to play with randoms to play "ranked", and in my case all my PvP friends stopped playing after HoT. Players like me are content with just soloqing, why should I be forced to find people to play with.

 

You need solutions that make PvP more accessible to bring players in to increase population, not repel the majority of it. ANet also needs to be better at enforcing their own rules and be more proactive at punishing win traders.

 

No

 

The problem is very clearly easily accessible match manipulation which is being heavily exploited not only by the top 10 but now stemming down into the top 100 as well. As much began to happen when people realized Arenanet was very seriously doing nothing to address any of the cheating at all. This not only has driven away a very large portion of veteran player base who would have otherwise stuck around to continue playing, but it also prevents newer player base from wanting to stick around to continue playing. When the cheating is this incredibly rampant & obvious, new players leave before they invest any dedication.

 

The problem has nothing to do with making pvp more accessible. Pvp is more accessible in GW2 than any other mmorpg. Pvp in GW2 requires that you finish a 5 minute tutorial and go to a town and load into pvp, done you can start pvping immediately. Several AT groups form each and every AT. You see LFG listings ranging from "All Welcome" to "Gold+" to "Plat+" to "Plat2+" and this isn't pointing out groups that form entirely from private contact list invites. AT participation is surprisingly strong actually, and it would be even stronger if rating/badge icon was tied to it. And honestly, AT participation is going to keep going up because of how bad ranked is. In other words, the idea you have to "make pvp more accessible" is null and void when the main game mode drives everyone away when they realize most of their games aren't even real. The cheating has to be solved first before any other suggestions can be made, and this cannot be done in solo/duo ranked format for obvious reasons. Solo/duo ranked needs to be scrapped, cut, and flushed down the toilet.

 

Upon all of the above, there is no problem with Unraked being accessible. Just put Ranked rewards to Unranked so everyone who is in pvp to unlock gear or meme for the funzies, can play Unranked. Put the rating/badge system into shorter AT seasons beginning and ending with MATs, in an appropriate 5 man premade team format for the competitive community. And I'll say it again, to anyone who complains about making 5 man parties to compete for a rating/badge, then I guess they don't want it badly enough and maybe they aren't as competitive as they thought they were.

 

All I'm saying is, tie that rating/badge icon to organized 5 man premade AT seasons, and it will allow legit players to block themselves from getting thrown on. This would much much more strongly reflect who the top 100 actually are, and make it much more difficult for anyone to fudge a carry into a high rating.

[Noz.4650]

5 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

No

 

The problem is very clearly easily accessible match manipulation which is being heavily exploited not only by the top 10 but now stemming down into the top 100 as well. As much began to happen when people realized Arenanet was very seriously doing nothing to address any of the cheating at all. This not only has driven away a very large portion of veteran player base who would have otherwise stuck around to continue playing, but it also prevents newer player base from wanting to stick around to continue playing. When the cheating is this incredibly rampant & obvious, new players leave before they invest any dedication.

 

The problem has nothing to do with making pvp more accessible. Pvp is more accessible in GW2 than any other mmorpg. Pvp in GW2 requires that you finish a 5 minute tutorial and go to a town and load into pvp, done you can start pvping immediately. Several AT groups form each and every AT. You see LFG listings ranging from "All Welcome" to "Gold+" to "Plat+" to "Plat2+" and this isn't pointing out groups that form entirely from private contact list invites. AT participation is surprisingly strong actually, and it would be even stronger if rating/badge icon was tied to it. And honestly, AT participation is going to keep going up because of how bad ranked is. In other words, the idea you have to "make pvp more accessible" is null and void when the main game mode drives everyone away when they realize most of their games aren't even real. The cheating has to be solved first before any other suggestions can be made, and this cannot be done in solo/duo ranked format for obvious reasons. Solo/duo ranked needs to be scrapped, cut, and flushed down the toilet.

 

Upon all of the above, there is no problem with Unraked being accessible. Just put Ranked rewards to Unranked so everyone who is in pvp to unlock gear or meme for the funzies, can play Unranked. Put the rating/badge system into shorter AT seasons beginning and ending with MATs, in an appropriate 5 man premade team format for the competitive community. And I'll say it again, to anyone who complains about making 5 man parties to compete for a rating/badge, then I guess they don't want it badly enough and maybe they aren't as competitive as they thought they were.

 

All I'm saying is, tie that rating/badge icon to organized 5 man premade AT seasons, and it will allow legit players to block themselves from getting thrown on. This would much much more strongly reflect who the top 100 actually are, and make it much more difficult for anyone to fudge a carry into a high rating.

 

Accessible might not be the right term, I meant more in terms of making PvP more new player friendly, better PvP tutorials, better marketing for PvP (I realize this one will never happen lol). I'm also for moving ranked rewards to unranked, even at the cost of reducing them a little bit. The thing is, for the majority of players, win traders aren't an issue at all, it's the bots. In plat we don't get them nearly as often but even up to mid gold, PvP is FULL of bots. This is driving a lot more players away than win trading ever will.

 

It's also a little disingenuous and elitist (and I know you don't mean it this way) to label people who don't do ATs that much as "not wanting it badly enough". Again I use myself as an example and I know I'm not alone in this, I just don't care to find people to play PvP with these days, why should I be punished for this? That means people like me will have no competitive outlet to improve as players because people don't try hard in unranked, resulting in the game bleeding even more good players. And what do you do when there's no AT happening? Spam unranked? Even people in organized teams will get bored fast. This is not saying ATs can't be expanded upon, they totally could (like all content in this game really). You're also forgetting that it's arguably easier to win trade in ATs, why wouldn't people do it there too?

[razaelll.8324]

13 minutes ago, eksn.7264 said:

 

Accessible might not be the right term, I meant more in terms of making PvP more new player friendly, better PvP tutorials, better marketing for PvP (I realize this one will never happen lol). I'm also for moving ranked rewards to unranked, even at the cost of reducing them a little bit. The thing is, for the majority of players, win traders aren't an issue at all, it's the bots. In plat we don't get them nearly as often but even up to mid gold, PvP is FULL of bots. This is driving a lot more players away than win trading ever will.

 

It's also a little disingenuous and elitist (and I know you don't mean it this way) to label people who don't do ATs that much as "not wanting it badly enough". Again I use myself as an example and I know I'm not alone in this, I just don't care to find people to play PvP with these days, why should I be punished for this? That means people like me will have no competitive outlet to improve as players because people don't try hard in unranked, resulting in the game bleeding even more good players. And what do you do when there's no AT happening? Spam unranked? Even people in organized teams will get bored fast. This is not saying ATs can't be expanded upon, they totally could (like all content in this game really). You're also forgetting that it's arguably easier to win trade in ATs, why wouldn't people do it there too?

Fully agree with you and i feel the same way , i dont want to be forced to search for people in order to get in competitive pvp ( one of the reason i left WoW) neither to be forced to pvp at specific hours becuase you cannot spam ATs but you can spam ranked pvp currently

Edited May 10, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

You always say this and I don't understand why. Solo or Duo will not matter. They will still win trade.

This is true

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

Let me explain why:

 

1. A person on their solo main account logs in. He contacts all his buddies and they go on alts. They go into a discord together.
2. They all push enter queue same time.
3. 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 people who are supporting the main still get into your game, with various alt synchs on your team and against and you have no chance of winning the match.

This is the means

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Solo or Duo has nothing to do with it. The only way to stop the win trading isn't even by stopping it, but rather allowing people to make 5 man teams so they can be wise enough to block themselves from it.

This is somewhat untrue. 

 

5 man teams would fix it too, but realistically speaking not everyone is going to want to have to queue in a 5-person team all the time. Sometimes people just want to play without waiting a long time, getting a party together, and then finding another similarly ranked team to play against. 

 

Backing up to how you said people wintrade though....

In SoloQ only there's statisiticamally less chance for the alts to be on opposing teams or even in the match entirely.

 

In Solo/Duo the people being boosted reduce the chance of the alts/throwers on their team by 40%. 2/5 = 40% of a team, that's mathemematics 😎

And if the alts are DuoQ'd themselves, that's another 40% of a team. 80% chance of not being matched together and if by some matchmaking fluke they did end up on the same team that's 4 top players on a single team against random matchmaking that is known to include things like bots. Either way, it's nigh impossible for the people being boosted to lose. That's why their winrates have been so ridiculously high ever since high-rated Duos came back compared to when it was restricted after 1600 rating.

 

Like, u rite. I agree with you. 5-man would fix it, and there was still wintrading in SoloQ. All i'm saying is that in the here and now, wintrading/match manipulation is way way easier in Solo/DuoQ, and that DuoQ definitely plays a huge role in that.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, eksn.7264 said:

 

Accessible might not be the right term, I meant more in terms of making PvP more new player friendly, better PvP tutorials, better marketing for PvP (I realize this one will never happen lol). I'm also for moving ranked rewards to unranked, even at the cost of reducing them a little bit. The thing is, for the majority of players, win traders aren't an issue at all, it's the bots. In plat we don't get them nearly as often but even up to mid gold, PvP is FULL of bots. This is driving a lot more players away than win trading ever will.

 

It's also a little disingenuous and elitist (and I know you don't mean it this way) to label people who don't do ATs that much as "not wanting it badly enough". Again I use myself as an example and I know I'm not alone in this, I just don't care to find people to play PvP with these days, why should I be punished for this? That means people like me will have no competitive outlet to improve as players because people don't try hard in unranked, resulting in the game bleeding even more good players. And what do you do when there's no AT happening? Spam unranked? Even people in organized teams will get bored fast. This is not saying ATs can't be expanded upon, they totally could (like all content in this game really). You're also forgetting that it's arguably easier to win trade in ATs, why wouldn't people do it there too?

 

Oh you definitely could win trade in ATs. I've already thought a lot about this. So here you go:

 

1. Make a team of mains. Have other good players make a team of alts who are performing at top tier levels.
2. There is another team of mains in who potentially could create a loss for the first team of mains.
3. The team of alts who perform at top tier levels want to try and clip the 2nd team of mains before they make it to semis. They could either run into them and attempt to beat them directly so that the alt team goes into finals and throws for the first team of mains, or the team of alts might have to face the first team "their friends" first, and in that case they throw very hard to create a large point disparity in a win lose situation so the first team within how AT swiss works, reads the win against the alt team as a much larger victory then when the alt team faces the 2nd team of mains, which is when the alt team tries hard. So if the first main team gets a 500 to 0 win vs. the 2nd team getting a 500 to 480 win, if and when "and usually it does" come down to the system choosing who progresses and who does not, the first team of mains gets a free ride on this one.
4. The only other way to manipulate ATs is with direct hack use or some creepy administrative actions if someone were to go that far.

Notice how deliberately more difficult this is to do. Even if people are trying VERY hard to manipulate an AT, it does not guarantee that the first team of mains can truly avoid the second team of mains. They cannot queue dodge their way out of this one. But most importantly, they cannot simply synch queue and plant mole throws on the second main team. <- and THAT is what will eliminate 98% of what plagues ranked mode now, concerning match manipulation and ability to queue dodge and prey on low rated while rigging everyone's matches for easy leaderboard control.

 

Another boon to AT rating/badge is that less experienced teams absolutely get to face more less experienced teams. They won't have to queue into a system that is making every match p2-p2-p1-g3-g1 vs L1-L1-p1-g1-g1 or some other kind of ridiculous skew. IE: A gold3 team might lose the first two rounds of the swiss they are in against a couple of p2+ teams, but then the next 3 or 4 games they get are against other gold3 teams or maybe a couple all welcome groups. And honestly that is completely fair for rating gains. There seriously wouldn't be any "farming" going on in ATs. The swiss format would work strangely well for a Glicko rating format to be tied to it, if you actually do ATs often and can see what I'm talking about. A general p2 team will have 75%-80% win rates in ATs, and even the loss they get from those p3-L1 teams, won't hit them so hard. P1 teams usually get around 70% win rates or so, and even when I've joined and played with Gold3ish level guys, they still run a good 50%/60% win rate. And then on the other hand, plat+ players wouldn't need to play with Gold1 or Silver3 players anymore and certainly NOT BOTS.

 

I mean every single thing people complain about would be immediately fixed if they used this suggestion. The only thing that people would have to get used to is the idea that if they want to compete for rating/badge, they need to open their LFG and use it, the same as they would for fractals or raids or anything else. I know some people want to live in this yolo queue world and I don't think that is either right or wrong. But what these people MUST understand is that by advocating the idea of this, they advocating wanting to keep match manipulation for all of us in the community, because there is no way to moderate this stuff in a yolo queue. So even if it would kitten a lot of people off at first, and I can't help but to think after awhile they would notice their match quality being much higher the first time they joined that team of plat + players and they would love the feel of it. <- This is generally the response I get from players when I convince them to join an AT. They are usually pleasantly surprised enough to comment on how much more fun it was, than going and losing matches in ranked where people on their team are rolling around in the bushes on the side of map trying to figure out what their WASD keys do.

 

This is coming from someone who runs 2 or 3 ATs a day. I'm telling you, the AT experience does not have to be a big try hard elaborate formation where everyone goes into a discord. You can casually play an AT simply by opening the LFG and joining an appropriate group, push enter queue. It doesn't take forever and it avoids so much nonsense. AT groups that hit the LFG fill pretty fast man. Even when I post p2+ it takes maybe 5 minutes tops to fill a team at prime time, maybe 10 minutes at worst if you're online at a weird time and don't have many people to self invite if need be. P1+ listings fill in half that amount of time, and Gold listings or all welcome fill almost instantly. I notice that this reluctance that people have to get involved with the LFG for ATs, all comes from the stigma we all remember from year 1,2,3,4, when people were still trying hard and getting into a team usually meant everyone wanted you on the discord and guys were being sweaty toxic and it was a ridiculous experience. But it just isn't like that anymore. LFG joins for ATs are like fractals, exactly like fractals. All Welcome listings will fill instantly like lower tier fractal groups where people are learning. Gold 3 listings fill as quickly as a "Fresh Recs" Listing. P1+ groups are like a "T4 fractal HB Alac", and P2+ is more like the CM groups where people want KP proof and kitten when you join. If they don't know your name directly, you better be on the leaderboard and your rating better be somewhere up near 1600. I'm saying all of this because it just isn't a big deal using LFG for ATs. Everything about it is a smoother and more fun experience than ranked. Don't let that old would-be ESL team stigma ruin the last game mode for you that's actually good. 

 

Clicking the LFG and choosing even a bottom plat team to join is a lot faster than waiting in a ranked queue even, and you get to choose who to play with. It's all bonus bonus.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Noz.4650]

I still hard disagree with AT being the main competitive game mode, I just don't think much of your arguments really hold up, with all due respect. I think what you're really asking for is a 5v5 ranked queue, not just AT, which was a bit of a disaster in the past. WIth ATs being hours apart, even most dedicated PvPers play 1 or 2 a day at most so you really wouldn't get to play many games a day. To be completely honest, I would simply quit playing the game if this was the case and a lot of other competitive players would.

 

They're also called "Automated Tournaments" and words carry a lot of weight when it comes to user experience. It will never not sound like a very serious, try hard thing. I don't really think comparing PvP and PvE content this way is very useful. I'm perfectly ok with moving most titles to ATs and keep some of the easier ones in ranked queue. If titles stopped after getting top 250 (which is very attainable if you play a bit of PvP), people wouldn't be as incentivized to go for top spots. This is an MMO after all, where rewards go, the players go, so more people will do AT which is a good thing.

[Disney.7826]

53 minutes ago, eksn.7264 said:

I still hard disagree with AT being the main competitive game mode, I just don't think much of your arguments really hold up, with all due respect. I think what you're really asking for is a 5v5 ranked queue, not just AT, which was a bit of a disaster in the past. WIth ATs being hours apart, even most dedicated PvPers play 1 or 2 a day at most so you really wouldn't get to play many games a day. To be completely honest, I would simply quit playing the game if this was the case and a lot of other competitive players would.

 

They're also called "Automated Tournaments" and words carry a lot of weight when it comes to user experience. It will never not sound like a very serious, try hard thing. I don't really think comparing PvP and PvE content this way is very useful. I'm perfectly ok with moving most titles to ATs and keep some of the easier ones in ranked queue. If titles stopped after getting top 250 (which is very attainable if you play a bit of PvP), people wouldn't be as incentivized to go for top spots. This is an MMO after all, where rewards go, the players go, so more people will do AT which is a good thing.

There is no enough players to do 5 man ranked queue - good teams would dodge each other. Maybe if they made 5 man ranked in past (not only release) the gamemode wouldnt be dead.