Found something that amazed me enough to post it here; regarding IBS (spoilers)

[Caitybee.3614]

So I know a lot of people are disappointed with the Icebrood Saga finale, however I was just playing through the start of Episode 5 in LWS3 and found a piece of dialogue that explains everything, and that Anet planned this the ENTIRE TIME. Just took a different route to accomplish it. See screenshot.

 

Screenshot: https://imgur.com/gallery/146lorT

 

In the screenshot Lazarus says; "I'd heard there was a machine here. A machine that could kill two Elder Dragons with one blow." This episode spoke of Primordus and Jormag as well, since it's on the way to Draconic Mons which was created when Primordus went deeper into the earth (taken from the wiki). Hopefully this will calm many of the people who are going crazy against Anet right now. I'm glad I found this bit of information, because now I KNOW they had this intention all along yet people haven't figured it out.

 

Thank you for looking, please be kind to one another.

[Linken.6345]

if you play the finale of that season you will see the big bad trying to use said machine mate nothing about it is tied to ibs.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

1 hour ago, Caitybee.3614 said:

In the screenshot Lazarus says; "I'd heard there was a machine here. A machine that could kill two Elder Dragons with one blow." This episode spoke of Primordus and Jormag as well, since it's on the way to Draconic Mons which was created when Primordus went deeper into the earth (taken from the wiki). Hopefully this will calm many of the people who are going crazy against Anet right now. I'm glad I found this bit of information, because now I KNOW they had this intention all along yet people haven't figured it out.

We broke that machine while Balthazar was draining magic from Primordus. Did you not finish Draconis Mons?

[PseudoNewb.5468]

Yes, the machine basically lays out a method of killing both dragons. Yes Aurene basically performs whatever that machine was doing. And that is one reason why a lot of people are annoyed. (Spoilers for LW3 and PoF) Because it gets setup that using that machine or it's actions would destroy the world. A large part of story was set up about not allowing such mechanisms to be used, and then, with no explanation, we go whelp, I guess it is O.K.?

Edited May 8, 2021 by PseudoNewb.5468

[Linken.6345]

Yea those pesky old dragons was not needed after all.

[Psientist.6437]

The studio likely planned a fight between Jormag and Primordius long ago. I don't think the studio is rushing through the Elder Dragon story and are instead committed to a modified 3 act structure. The could look the same though. A fight between 2 Elder Dragons is too exciting to leave on the writing room floor and is the perfect subject for the Act 2 to Act 3 transition crisis.  However, it is very challenging to deliver without wrecking your world and character building. 

 

The fight we got was silly. Obviously, more zones would make a difference, even save the story from being a flop. However, the Saga would still fail to navigate the PC around the pivot in the plot. Slow walking the exploration of Aurene's powers made this impossible. 

[Bast.7253]

Yeah, the whole Flashpoint episode did elude to a lot of the things we did in this chapter. But I'm more convinced they MAYBE had someone replay the part of season 3 involving them and were like.. so how can we touch on this story again?

Especially given the dialogue about Jormag and Primordus getting into a "fist fight" from Taimi. I'm not sure that was ever the plan but the whole emphasis of that chapter is how that machine is essentially our only way to deal with Primordus and Jormag.

It also seemed to imply that they're their only weaknesses, so if we hadn't pitted them against each other we wouldn't have had a way to kill them?

If I had replayed this episode before now I might have had different conclusions about the outcome of this story in assuming that it was possible that only ONE elder dragon could die. After replay it seems that it was always the plan to kill both.

It's just that they may have planned to stretch out to having two saga's dedicated to each dragon to span over multiple years. 

[Psientist.6437]

Remove the fight and I can't think of any reason to call the Ice Brood Saga a saga. The choice of name was likely intended to help frame the increased rate of dragon deaths. Perhaps the mmo concept of a forever game shouldn't be applied to the plot. The Elder dragon cycle would always end. It could end with a dramatic finale or slowly whither. Plots with lots of repetition are more likely to whither. They are more likely to lose coherence, especially if the plot relies on fudgery. To me, it looks like the studio is going for the big finale. 

 

Imo, it is the right choice. The fudge is already deep.

 

   

[The Greyhawk.9107]

12 hours ago, Caitybee.3614 said:

So I know a lot of people are disappointed with the Icebrood Saga finale, however I was just playing through the start of Episode 5 in LWS3 and found a piece of dialogue that explains everything, and that Anet planned this the ENTIRE TIME. Just took a different route to accomplish it. See screenshot.

 

Screenshot: https://imgur.com/gallery/146lorT

 

In the screenshot Lazarus says; "I'd heard there was a machine here. A machine that could kill two Elder Dragons with one blow." This episode spoke of Primordus and Jormag as well, since it's on the way to Draconic Mons which was created when Primordus went deeper into the earth (taken from the wiki). Hopefully this will calm many of the people who are going crazy against Anet right now. I'm glad I found this bit of information, because now I KNOW they had this intention all along yet people haven't figured it out.

 

Thank you for looking, please be kind to one another.

Yes, we remembered this scene and episode (really kittening hard to forget the scene that introduced "Heel Turn" Balthazar) but I seem to recall that particular episode being having another little tidbit:  The revelation that killing anymore Elder Dragons would destroy Tyria.  Which is exactly what we went and did at the end of Irritable Bowel Saga, but thats ok, at least the episodes came out in time 💩

[Incar.7358]

I mean, if we want to throw around interesting dialogue from previous seasons to push an explanation of Aurene, or even potentially the ending of IBS: Season 4 - War Eternal - "Descent"

SPOILERS (I guess)
 

Spoiler

Kralkatorrik: You are more than I.

Kralkatorrik: Death does not stop you.

Kralkatorrik: The magics do not torment you.

Kralkatorrik: They belong within you.

Spoiler

Kralkatorrik: She is the first of her kind.

 

[Harfang.1507]

I am sorry, OP, but that's been known for a long time.

In HoT, Act 3 iirc, it was revealed that each elder dragon has a weakness. I do not know when it was spelled out explicitly, but from their spheres of influence and the lore of the game, it was written in the stars that Jormag and Primordus would go down together--literally. Everything in this game's plot has been about assessing elder dragon threat, preparing to neutralise elder dragon threat, terminating elder dragon threat--while trying to destroy the world in the process.

[Sirbeaumerdier.3740]

So, basically, you didn't complete Draconis Mons...

[zealex.9410]

On 5/8/2021 at 10:05 PM, Caitybee.3614 said:

So I know a lot of people are disappointed with the Icebrood Saga finale, however I was just playing through the start of Episode 5 in LWS3 and found a piece of dialogue that explains everything, and that Anet planned this the ENTIRE TIME. Just took a different route to accomplish it. See screenshot.

 

Screenshot: https://imgur.com/gallery/146lorT

 

In the screenshot Lazarus says; "I'd heard there was a machine here. A machine that could kill two Elder Dragons with one blow." This episode spoke of Primordus and Jormag as well, since it's on the way to Draconic Mons which was created when Primordus went deeper into the earth (taken from the wiki). Hopefully this will calm many of the people who are going crazy against Anet right now. I'm glad I found this bit of information, because now I KNOW they had this intention all along yet people haven't figured it out.

 

Thank you for looking, please be kind to one another.

Huh? Is that gery same season the go over why killing them both is a very bad idea hell, its taimi herself that comes to that conclusion in se3.

 

If anything se3 justifies why alot of ppl feel like this turn of events in ibs makes no sense and ignores established lore.

[Nazarick.9653]

On 5/8/2021 at 8:05 PM, Caitybee.3614 said:

So I know a lot of people are disappointed with the Icebrood Saga finale, however I was just playing through the start of Episode 5 in LWS3 and found a piece of dialogue that explains everything, and that Anet planned this the ENTIRE TIME. Just took a different route to accomplish it. See screenshot.

 

Screenshot: https://imgur.com/gallery/146lorT

 

In the screenshot Lazarus says; "I'd heard there was a machine here. A machine that could kill two Elder Dragons with one blow." This episode spoke of Primordus and Jormag as well, since it's on the way to Draconic Mons which was created when Primordus went deeper into the earth (taken from the wiki). Hopefully this will calm many of the people who are going crazy against Anet right now. I'm glad I found this bit of information, because now I KNOW they had this intention all along yet people haven't figured it out.

 

Thank you for looking, please be kind to one another.

I always knew that the dragons would end up clashing, they just took a massive shortcut - instead of spending the next 4 zones building up Primordus (like they did with Jormag) followed by an epic finale on the scale of Dragonfall, they went "here's a bunch of recycled landscapes for a few elaborate story missions in repeatable form" followed by "Ryland Braham zap pow kersplat, legendary prod, poof dragons dead".

 

Still doesn't correspond with Taimi's conclusion that killing dragons is bad for the environment.  Or explain why Bangar is still in his cage.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

10 hours ago, Nazarick.9653 said:

I always knew that the dragons would end up clashing, they just took a massive shortcut - instead of spending the next 4 zones building up Primordus

There was never going to be 4 more zones.

 

The IBS portal tome had slots in it for four more episodes, but looking at Bjora and Drizzlewood, we would have gotten two new zones among those 4 episodes, and the last two episodes/last zone would have been the big meta fight where the two duke it out.

 

The only "zone" we would have gotten for Primrodus was likely him invading the centaur homelands as the IBS trailer seemed to imply we would go next.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 5/8/2021 at 10:32 PM, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

We broke that machine while Balthazar was draining magic from Primordus. Did you not finish Draconis Mons?

 

Before we did, we used it (well, Taimi did, we were just there fighting, as usual *Zzzz*) to put Primordus - and by doing so Jormag as well - to sleep. Or so we thought.

 

So yes, them being connected as the two opposites in the cosmic design of Magic (a.k.a. the Eternal Alchemy) is not new to us and was decided long before the IBS.

[Pifil.5193]

On 5/10/2021 at 10:49 PM, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

There was never going to be 4 more zones.

 

The IBS portal tome had slots in it for four more episodes, but looking at Bjora and Drizzlewood, we would have gotten two new zones among those 4 episodes, and the last two episodes/last zone would have been the big meta fight where the two duke it out.

 

The only "zone" we would have gotten for Primrodus was likely him invading the centaur homelands as the IBS trailer seemed to imply we would go next.

I'm assuming they meant 4 zones as in another two maps split across 4 episodes.

 

That said cramming the entire Primordus arc into a few threadbare "chapters" at the end of the Icebrood Saga is a waste. There is a theory that the Icebrood Saga would have carried on for another 4 episodes ending in the awakening of Primordus. Then the Firebrood Saga would have begun, that Saga would have focused on primordus, the dwarves, the depths of Tyria and after that finished would we have had our epic clash of dragons.

 

That makes sense if they weren't planning on making another expansion and would have been much more fitting of the name Saga.

 

Anyway, it no longer matters what their original plans were, those were flushed down the drain when the decision to make an expansion was made. 

[Tyson.5160]

On 5/10/2021 at 4:45 AM, Nazarick.9653 said:

I always knew that the dragons would end up clashing, they just took a massive shortcut - instead of spending the next 4 zones building up Primordus (like they did with Jormag) followed by an epic finale on the scale of Dragonfall, they went "here's a bunch of recycled landscapes for a few elaborate story missions in repeatable form" followed by "Ryland Braham zap pow kersplat, legendary prod, poof dragons dead".

 

Still doesn't correspond with Taimi's conclusion that killing dragons is bad for the environment.  Or explain why Bangar is still in his cage.

I guess if they had made those zones for Primordus,  they wouldn’t be making End of Dragons, which might have been the true ending of GW2.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

15 hours ago, Pifil.5193 said:

I'm assuming they meant 4 zones as in another two maps split across 4 episodes.

 

That said cramming the entire Primordus arc into a few threadbare "chapters" at the end of the Icebrood Saga is a waste. There is a theory that the Icebrood Saga would have carried on for another 4 episodes ending in the awakening of Primordus. Then the Firebrood Saga would have begun, that Saga would have focused on primordus, the dwarves, the depths of Tyria and after that finished would we have had our epic clash of dragons.

 

That makes sense if they weren't planning on making another expansion and would have been much more fitting of the name Saga.

 

Anyway, it no longer matters what their original plans were, those were flushed down the drain when the decision to make an expansion was made. 

The entire Primordus arc wasn't crammed into Champions, and there was never going to be a "Destroyer Saga". You seem to forget, Living World Season 3 exists, and covered lots of Primordus stuff. And, if you compare it to the other dragons, it matches up

-The real battle against Zhaitan was 3 maps(Straights of Devastation, Malchor's Leap, and Cursed Shore) capped off with the dragon fight in Arah story mode.

-The real fight against Mordremoth was three maps(Verdent Brink, Auric Basin, and Tangled Depths) capped off with the dragon fight meta in Dragon's Stand.

-The real fight against Kralkatorrik was three maps(Vabbi, Jahai, and Thunderhead) capped off with the dragon fight meta in Dragonfall.

-Looking at Jormag and Primordus, the seemingly original plans for IBS, and Living World Season 3, Primordus would have gotten 3 maps(Ember Bay, Draconis Mons, and the Centaur Homelands), Jormag would have gotten 3 maps(Bitterfrost Frontier, Bjora Marches, and Drizzlewood Coast), and then they would have had the shared dragon fight meta in Dragonstorm.

 

Also, the other Primordus stuff was already covered before IBS began.

-People have said they wanted a story arc where we go underground, find a lost Asuran city, learn about the Asura who stayed underground, find some tech/knowledge they researched/found to defeat Primordus, and deal with the Inquest trying to take it. And we got that. Back in HoT we found Rata Novus, a lost, underground, Asuran City, made by Asura who refused to come to the surface. We learn about them, and use the researched they did to not only discover Mordremoth's weakness, but also find out Jormag and Primordus's weaknesses, and develop a machine to try to kill them. And we use that information to defeat the dragons in IBS. Rata Novus was expanded on throughout LWS3 directly, as a base we go back to several times, and more so in the Draconis Mons release where we find out survivors of the Chak invasion of Rata Novus fled to Draconis Mons to start a new city there, and now Inquest are trying to steal their secrets, and we have events/story to stop them.

 

-The same thing with the dwarves. Back in core we covered almost all of the Dwarven lands, from Iron Horse Mines in the north, to Droknar's forge and Port Sledge in the south, with Ogden appearing briefly in some story paths, and us dealing with the Dredge, who viewed themselves as the successors to the dwarves. And in LWS2 Ogden got his role expanded in the story.

In LWS3 we were introduced to a new dwarf, Rhoban, in the Ember Bay release, which also had us dealing with ancient dwarven tech to stop a volcano from erupting.

Rhoban and the dwarves story was continued in PoF, with the Derelict Delve area in the Desert Highlands. Rhoban was part of a Priory expedition into these ruins(now infested with destroyers), and we can help find the mystery of this place, as well as get some ancient dwarven weapons.

Rhoban/Dwarves story was continued again in LWS4 with the Thunderhead Peaks release where we get to go to the last major dwarven area we couldn't in core, where Rhboan is once again part of a Priory expedition team. We not only get to go to the old Dwarven capitol, but we get to go inside it as well, and there we find the legacy of the dwarves, the dragonblood weapon forge, and even interact with the ghost of the dwarf who made the original spear to forge a new one. There is even a weapon collection achievement for the dragonblood weapons dealing with recreating, and collecting, the stories of the ancient dwarven heroes. This map also continued the Dredge storyline as well, putting us into a more solid peace with atl east this one group of dredge.

 

Both the big Asura and Dwarven storyline beats had been covered before IBS began, with the Ember Bay, and Draconis Mons, releases, and the Derelict Delve in PoF, being Primordus focused.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[DeceiverX.8361]

Imagine throwing away all your resources by forgoing gameplay to justify a story and expansion, and ultimately find all that effort making absolutely no sense, lol.