Few years ago, after crafted Aurora, I thought I won't come back to Ember's Bay and Draconis Mons JPs

[Astralporing.1957]

18 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

This seems like a little hyperbolic. I personally do not particularly like JPs but i understand their place in the game. I look at this more like the gift of battle, these achievements are their to make people try different things. Ontop of the fact that while it sucks to not complete the meta achievement, their are lots of different rewards you will get without finishing the ember bay and draconis mons metas. 

I'm not talking about ember bay and draconic mons metas. I am talking about the most recent "return to" meta chain. Anet should want most players to engage with it. Including achieves that are meant to turn off a lot of players and decrease their enjoyment with that meta seems like a dubious decision to me.

 

There was a lot of players doing the JP on the map i was on yesterday. Noone seemed to enjoy it however. Many seemed to absolutely hate it. Is that really the reaction you want to an event that is meant to keep high/revitalize player interest in the game before an expansion?

[sergiomasako.2906]

7 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

There was a lot of players doing the JP on the map i was on yesterday. Noone seemed to enjoy it however. Many seemed to absolutely hate it. Is that really the reaction you want to an event that is meant to keep high/revitalize player interest in the game before an expansion?

This.

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

48 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

There was a lot of players doing the JP on the map i was on yesterday. Noone seemed to enjoy it however. Many seemed to absolutely hate it. Is that really the reaction you want to an event that is meant to keep high/revitalize player interest in the game before an expansion?

The achievements aren't without nice rewards... If you want something special, u have to earn it... 250 petrified wood... ~2000 unbound magic, 6 mystic coins or nice exclusive weapon skin, and lot more...

Imagine giving all this without any effort at all .. even now, ppl can just follow a fellow helpful Mesmer and get things done easily without much effort... Just press F on a portal 4 times and you're done ... Loot rains on you...

And not to mention, you get a free legendary amulet along with these weekly rewards.. maybe some expressed their difficulties in that jp... But know that this is the only jp that makes ppl complain alot... The achievements that comes in future spotlight weeks would be a breeze

 

And also, it's not just about the rewards... Playing on a map with a lot of shiny new ppl with bling bling wings and effects make me feel happy... One thing that this return to meta achievs done right is gathering ppl to an old beautiful map and giving it life once more... Maybe ppl lost interest over the years on these maps since they got new infusion dropping maps or gold farming maps, but I hope ppl always rotate thru all these maps and never leave a map deserted... It's a good decision by anet I guess

Edited July 7, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[yann.1946]

44 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I'm not talking about ember bay and draconic mons metas. I am talking about the most recent "return to" meta chain. Anet should want most players to engage with it. Including achieves that are meant to turn off a lot of players and decrease their enjoyment with that meta seems like a dubious decision to me.

 

They are not meant to turn players away, they might do that though.  

 

44 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

There was a lot of players doing the JP on the map i was on yesterday. Noone seemed to enjoy it however. Many seemed to absolutely hate it. Is that really the reaction you want to an event that is meant to keep high/revitalize player interest in the game before an expansion?

How would you find the ones enjoying it? Just listening to map chat does not seem like a good idea.

 

That depends how you look at it though. The JP will be memorable, will help with community building and will increase the enjoyment from having finished the achievement set.

My only point is that their might be good reasons to add it, even if you personally disagree with these reasons.

[TheAgedGnome.7520]

"Just follow a mesmer..."

 

When you have a JP like this, where 90% of the players need to be carried by 0.01%  of the population just to accomplish it, you know you kittened up hard on the design and then you kittened up even worse by including it in an event chain designed to draw in new players and drum up excitement about your next expac.

 

This is a case study in not understanding your player base. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by TheAgedGnome.7520

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

They are not meant to turn players away, they might do that though.  

Oh, i know it was not meant to turn players away. I don't think anybody would intentionally introduce content that would drive players away. So, that leaves us with two options. Either Anet devs think players consider this type of content fun, or they didn't even bother to think about it. Frankly, i don't even know which of those options would be worse.

 

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

How would you find the ones enjoying it? Just listening to map chat does not seem like a good idea.

Chat can often tell you at least some of the player reactions. Players that like certain type of content often do speak up when they see someone's bashing it. Duing previous events, and the Retrospective Runaround achievement (the Silverwastes JP), there were voices of dislike, but they were countered very fast by others. This time, i heard only negatives. The most "positive" voices were those that gave advice how to deal with it ("you really should not attempt it without position rewinder" and "Use Taco" being most common), but even those players did not try to defend the actual JP design. The general feel from the players i couls see and hear was "i want to be done with it as fast as possible, and never see that place again".

 

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

That depends how you look at it though. The JP will be memorable

Sure it will. It's definitely not the kind of memory you'd want associated with your game if you were a dev, though.  It's good memories devs should aim to create.

 

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

will help with community building

Will it? And is it something that could not have been done without introducing so much negative emotions?

 

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

and will increase the enjoyment from having finished the achievement set.

Maybe for you. For me, and for many others it did the exact opposite.

 

1 hour ago, yann.1946 said:

My only point is that their might be good reasons to add it, even if you personally disagree with these reasons.

If so, i'd really, really want to hear those.

[Gorem.8104]

Just be glad to get this done now while there are so many Mesmers around. When this map dies off again, the return to achievements will be quite annoying to accomplish outside of groups doing it! 🙂

 

I used the PPR for this, but it gave me a short but instant load screen pop up which removed the last checkpoint buff. 

 

That was fun... Seriously, this JP sucks. 

[Gorem.8104]

4 hours ago, Alaia Skyhawk.5064 said:

haha, have to agree I can't believe they actually included this JP in the meta achievement.

 

I suffered my way though it on my mesmer using TaCo, plus Rewinder and portals as mini checkpoints before awkward jumps. Once finished I then with the help of a guildmate who teleported to me at the chest, TP'd 3 more characters to him (mesmer and 2 thieves) to get them up the volcano for the express purpose of gliding them down to strategic points so I could provide shortcuts to reach all the geysers after geyser 2 with almost no jumping and just a little gliding to do. With cooldowns it takes about 5 minutes to get them up there from geyser 2 (since portal cooldowns don't reset when log between characters) . I have a feeling those characters are going to be parked for a while. I'll certainly be spending some time tonight sat in the map and offering taxi though the JP xD

 

The real heroes of the game

[Astralporing.1957]

58 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

I used the PPR for this, but it gave me a short but instant load screen pop up which removed the last checkpoint buff. 

It did? That's recent. It wasn't doing that before.

 

[yann.1946]

 

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Chat can often tell you at least some of the player reactions. Players that like certain type of content often do speak up when they see someone's bashing it. During previous events, and the Retrospective Runaround achievement (the Silverwastes JP), there were voices of dislike, but they were countered very fast by others. This time, i heard only negatives. The most "positive" voices were those that gave advice how to deal with it ("you really should not attempt it without position rewinder" and "Use Taco" being most common), but even those players did not try to defend the actual JP design. The general feel from the players i couls see and hear was "i want to be done with it as fast as possible, and never see that place again".

Well the people who enjoyed it where also probably quicker of the map. Also i'm in no way claiming that the previous jp was not easier/ more fun on average then the chalice of tears.

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Sure it will. It's definitely not the kind of memory you'd want associated with your game if you were a dev, though.  It's good memories devs should aim to create.

This will lead to quite a big tangent and pretty nuanced discussion about whether bad publicity is also publicity argument. If you want we can have that conversation, but it will lead us pretty far from the topic. 

 

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Will it? And is it something that could not have been done without introducing so much negative emotions?

 

Well yes it will, more player interaction happened during this jumple puzzle, then in the other events.

Most of the time negative emotion is more useful in facilitating community building then positive. Do i like that fact NO not at all, but it is the reality of the situation. 

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Maybe for you. For me, and for many others it did the exact opposite.

Well my statement was some basic psychology. Btw this happens for everyone, you to, the only question was whether the experience was that bad that the increase of enjoyment you get from finishing the activity can exceed the loss of fun while initially doing it.

 

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If so, i'd really, really want to hear those.

Well i gave three reasons you just disagreed with them. 🙂

[Astralporing.1957]

5 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

Well i gave three reasons you just disagreed with them. 🙂

From devs, i mean. You're just guessing.

[yann.1946]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

From devs, i mean. You're just guessing.

OK fair, that would be interesting indeed. 🙂

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

JPs are a core part of Guild Wars 2. If something you want requires doing JPs, then you must do them.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Glad that it is back. I am glad it has not been changed from Josh Foremans vision. Remember you are getting a precursor, 32 slot bag and a legendary, this is fitting for a the scale of the rewards being given.

 

[Nata.9812]

This post remembered me that we will need to do another hellish jp very soon... Oh man...

[Fueki.4753]

Unlike the last time it was relevant, I did it myself this time, instead of using Mesmer taxis.

Those were 2,5 hours straight out of hell, for both my mind and my throat.

All the money in Tyria could not get me to play taxi in there.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Donari.5237]

I am selfishly glad the Chalice was included in the achieves.  Not because I have a snowball's chance in lava of *ever* doing it myself, let alone repeatedly enough to strike it rich off tips, but because it meant there were helpful mesmers a'plenty and though I goofed on taking the wrong portals a few times and ended up being in there nearly 2 hours, I did end up getting to the chest with all checkpoints credited.  I was so happy I tipped the mesmer 15 gold; had planned 10 g but then they just kept on being patient with a huge group of bumbling people (me included) for long hours.  I had the initial achieve from original launch week before they made the checkpoints mandatory (some person was just standing there letting folks tele to them), but that was before Ember Bay Master was a thing.  Now I have Ember Bay Master at last, and I think just Bitterfrost and Draconis Mons to go to finish all the Master collections.

 

If ANet hadn't included it, I would continue not to have reached that chest for the Vial of Tears -- which despite clogged bags, I have no desire to salvage!  And I still have one of the big bosses to slay in Draconis Mons for Master there, should be a breeze with the player influx that week.

 

But I'm a lucky person who can spend the time in the initial day or two of the new content to pounce on all the grouping help there is.  I do worry for those trying these achieves a few months from now.

[Blueberry.8095]

Agree to the posts that pointed out how it negatively impacted my gaming expenrience. Like, it totally ruined the night for me.

 

When Anet delivered the news of bringing back the old seasons with a reward, I thought Anet nailed it and they do care about their player base. Even if I was somewhat reluctant to repeat the story, but I thought it was fair and was happily repeating all the PvE contents that associate with the achivements. I thought it was a brilliant idea because although I did the story before, but I did not care about the story achivement back then, so it was a good time for me to gather some friends to repeat it altogether as well as to complete some old achives.

 

However, Anet just had to ruin the whole experience by including JP in the chain achivement once again. Like seriously??? I get that for some people, it's the best thing in the world, therefore please have JP achivement SEPARATED in their own category for the 1% who enjoys them, DO NOT force in on the other  99% who loathe them. It was bad enough to do it once (or twice - on release/Aurora), but now we have to do it again???? My head already hurts as soon as I saw that Chalice of tears was part of the achivement. Ever know the youtuber Chris Ramsay who solves difficult puzzles? He loves it & he's good at it, but not everyone is Chris Ramsay.

 

I see a lot of you argues that just ask a mesmer or beg on forum for help, but you can't always able to get helped in an off-peak time, it just show how bad this JP is, so bad that people are willing to pay gold to get helped.

[Cuks.8241]

I really like JPs. I really hate Chalice of Tears from the bottom of my hearth. I've been trying to do it solo (no guides) for some time before I gave up.

But on the other hand this is a JP raid and this is a mmorpg, it's not meant to be played solo all the time. And in this respect COT is awesome. This few days with everyone doing have been real fun and a really nice community experience.

[QuirkyDM.2351]

I have to say, it was very neat to go through the volcano and have company. Seeing a bunch of figures scattered all around the caldera is a neat scene.  That has been the case every week though. Seeing huge numbers of characters running around Dry Top and Bloodfen was a lot of fun. On the other hand, anyone doing these achievements after the week they come out will face loneliness on these maps.

 

This was my fourth time doing this puzzle. It should hopefully be my last. You'd think the first three times would have burnt the path into my brain, but I still needed to use a guide this last time. It did go much faster this time, though.

[ugrakarma.9416]

in N.A. theres a player expert in carry players in theses JP's, i dont remember her alt name is "Ouraleya"(something like that) she carried me and others at time, shes was very gentle mes, and the run was smooth, unfortunately i guess she's play in oceanic time(probably from japan), and im not sure if shes still play gw2.. shes was a hero to many.

Edited July 8, 2021 by ugrakarma.9416

[sergiomasako.2906]

On 7/7/2021 at 6:36 PM, Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

JPs are a core part of Guild Wars 2. If something you want requires doing JPs, then you must do them.

If JP were a core part of the game, I would not play GW2

Edited July 9, 2021 by sergiomasako.2906

[radda.8920]

On 7/7/2021 at 7:16 PM, Nata.9812 said:

This post remembered me that we will need to do another hellish jp very soon... Oh man...

we will especially never have anything hard, since it complains at the slightest challenge:  no more raids, no more HOT level metas, no more complicated jumping puzzles ... it's sad, really very sad.

 

guild wars deserve better than an army of   spam 1 buses.

 

But with this logic of complaint, I hope that they will remove the DRM of this meta achievement  since it is much more abominable and boring to do than any JP

Edited July 9, 2021 by radda.8920

[Tyncale.1629]

It is all about how you handle such a hurdle thrown up for you by Anet.

I knew I had to do it with the kind support of Mesmers and I treated my gameplay session  as such.

 

That meant I had to  dawdle around Ember Bay for a while until I could spot/join a Mesmer that was doing this. I made sure that I knew from which spot they usually begin to port, so I hung around there. I did not expect an instant Mesmer to pop up before my eyes.

I made sure I had allotted enough time for the session: even with mesmers it takes a while.

I had patience and enjoyed the ride up there with Deannes, who finally got me to the top. I laughed at how our little group  was cuddling tightly together in the spots that she took us to with her ports, deadly afraid to move or make a misstep and fall down into the lava. I felt like a total Lemming/Sheep and smiled with every port that took us further up the Vulcano.  With the final port I felt both triumphant(go figure) and grateful, and mailed her 5g.  

 

It was a fun, and social session.  🙂

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Tyncale.1629