SpellBreaker should be able to block re-applying removed boons.

[anduriell.6280]

I don't play warrior much but i think Spellbreaker should also apply a debuff so when it removes a boon so that boon can not be reapplied again for some short interval. 

Like the same boon icon but in purple background. 

 

It does not make sense for the class to remove boons and deal additional damage to  boonless targets if all classes have access to easy boon spam. Also it would open a window for spellbreaker to become a pillar in wvw  squads. 

 

So if a boon is removed the debuff would keep into consideration the stacks, 1s for stack up to 10s with a minimum of 2s.

This would balance out the boon output making high impact boons to be the most punished (stability and might) while the rest of the boons would get a small debuff of 2 seconds which should be enough to be noticeable but not as oppresive as to delete boons from the game. 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by anduriell.6280
smol corrections

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Great idea. Put it on one of the minor traits.

 

I think a 2s duration would be long enough.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

Or maybe apply the disenchantment debuff on people for 2-5 seconds anytime you remove a boon, from a trait of course.

https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Disenchantment

[Fueki.4753]

This sounds like a good idea.

 

Maybe we will see it in EoD on other professions.

But Warriors have little to no chance to get something nice like that.

[RiyazGuerra.9203]

Anduriell: this boon denial concept is one of the best ideas for Spellbreaker I have heard.

 

Lan: Agreed, should be a core feature of the elite spec and therefore must be on a minor trait.

 

I say we should lean into this feature and add related debuffs to dagger's current skills

.

.

.

Dagger skill 2 should also add

 

Boon Denial: A 2 second debuff that prevents the application of a boon.

.

.

.

Dagger skill 4 should also add

 

Stifling Boon: A 2 second debuff that causes any attempted boon to increase skill recharge by 100%.

.

.

.

Dagger Burst F1 should add

 

Boon Oppression: A 1 second debuff that causes damage to any source that casts a spell affecting the target.  This includes sources of fields, wells, marks, symbols etc.

(this can be balanced by the amount of damage applied)

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

This kind of debuff would be great in WvW.

[anduriell.6280]

i am happy to see my sugestion is well received.

 

7 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Great idea. Put it on one of the minor traits.

 

I think a 2s duration would be long enough.

yes of course, this should be baseline to the specialization as baseline mechanic. The idea is to give the spellbreaker an unique utility other than a discount necro boon rip without replacing necro corruptions.

 

Once that mechanic is stablished there are so many concepts that can be created: strip (without the debuff) boons around a target from whom we removed the boon, Remove boons(with debuff) around the spellbreaker, Apply a debuff which triggers with the next boon application so the target and enemies around the target can not use that boon for short time.

 

Instead meditations spellbreakers could rework the utilities to be Hexes, either way most are offensive in nature and the healing needs a rework like :

 

 Natural Healing : Lose conditions to heal yourself. Remove boons from enemies  around you to heal yourself (instead removing boons on self removes boon from enemies around the spellbreaker healing the player  for each boon) it could be a total of 10 distributed between up to 5 targets in a short radius ( 5 enemies/2 boons each or 1 enemy/10 boon). With this change the base healing would need to be adjusted of course and the healing would be deppendent on how many boons have been removed.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Totally justified idea on the current boon meta. I like it. If SpB Strips never get increased, may as well deny boon application instead. with our current tools.

[Zekent.3652]

Yeah and no, tbh there's a bunch of boons in this game, and you cant even do real pressure to boon spammers as spellbreaker.

 

Its a good idea, but no, just make it reject the next boon generation (1), not all boons in 2 seconds, that's too much lol

[Fueki.4753]

9 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Its a good idea, but no, just make it reject the next boon generation (1), not all boons in 2 seconds, that's too much lol

The boons (and conditions) in the game are what is too much.

If just one boon application gets blocked, it literally means nothing when enemies can fart boons multiple times a second.

Denying a single application would keep Spellbreaker as useless as it is right now.

If anything, two seconds is too short.

[RiyazGuerra.9203]

Yeah, let's debate this point.  I agree with Fueki, the two seconds is not really that oppressing.

 

In Anduriell's OP the boon stripped is the one that is prevented for a minimum of 2 seconds.  Deathrider suggested it should max out at 2 seconds.  At worst, two seconds just means you need to snare the warrior for a bit, run away and then reengage after 1-2 seconds.  That can't be too oppressing, can it?

 

I would go so far as to say even if the two second debuff would prevent all boons, even that would not be overly oppressing.  It's definitely annoying and inconvenient, would definitely elevate the threat level of a Spellbreaker, but I don't find it gamebreaking. 

[anduriell.6280]

7 minutes ago, RiyazGuerra.9203 said:

Yeah, let's debate this point.  I agree with Fueki, the two seconds is not really that oppressing.

 

In Anduriell's OP the boon stripped is the one that is prevented for a minimum of 2 seconds.  Deathrider suggested it should max out at 2 seconds.  At worst, two seconds just means you need to snare the warrior for a bit, run away and then reengage after 1-2 seconds.  That can't be too oppressing, can it?

 

I would go so far as to say even if the two second debuff would prevent all boons, even that would not be overly oppressing.  It's definitely annoying and inconvenient, would definitely elevate the threat level of a Spellbreaker, but I don't find it gamebreaking. 

Um, is not only those 2 seconds, if you bait the target they will waste that boon application which could be a long CD skill. 

I think it should be longer for stackable boons like might or stability, 1s by stack up to 10s. 

 

Other boons i think 2 seconds is fine. 

 

I think the mechanic should be kept into the "removed boons" so there is some counter play there, it is not just "hit one button and no boons no more". 

 

Although i think if we want the Spellbreaker to lean more into this unique mechanic the utilities and daggers would need added some additonal boon strips in there. Utilities should be more like the skill Break_Enchantments and less like Featherfoot_Grace. 

 

I do think Spellbreaker would benefit from Hexes intead meditations, a condition effect which triggers if the target fullfill some requerimients, otherwise it lingers on the enemy for few seconds. 

 

For example: 

Natural Healing:  Remove condition on self. Place an hexe up to 5 targets around the spellbreaker, for the next few seconds the next incoming boon application  and up to 2 boons are removed and the spell  breaker is healed. 

So it would work like a delayed healing, place a condition on a enemy and if the spam boons the spellbreaker would be healed over time. 

 

Break Enchantments: Remove boons around you. Enemies get hexed and next boon aplication is removed and strip (without debuff)  a boon  in an small radius around that enemy. 

 

Full Counter  Absorb the next attack against and then remove multiple boons around you. Targets with removed boons are dazed for a short duration and receive damage by each boon removed. Increased radius to 450. 

 

Aura Slicer: Leap and strike your foe. If the target is has the debuff is inflictied by slow. 

Wastrel's Ruin: Strike your target.  Apply an hexe so next enemy boon application is removed and the spellbreaker is healed.

Disrupting Stab: Dazes your target if you interrupt your tagget remove a boon. If your target has the debuff the target is also immobilized. 

 

Once Anet implements such mechanic there are so many things that can be added so add fun mechnics. 

 

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

What if it blocked the same boon from being reapplied? Basically, make a new status icon, which is grey version of the boon, which indicated the currently clocked boon and current duration of said block.

As such, we could add in a full rework of some of spell breaker's skills to include preemptive blocks, one still could possibly be traited to block might... or so on.

[Vancho.8750]

So its something like reverse resistance, right ?

Edited June 27, 2021 by Vancho.8750

[RiyazGuerra.9203]

Anduriell, I like your skill suggestions though I feel Aura Slicer (Dagger 2) should apply a debuff that prevents boon application due to the skill itself being one that closes the distance and implicitly marks the initiation of the brief window of warrior melee dps.  

 

We can balance boon prevention hexes in a lot of ways, the most obvious being the duration which the hex is active.  Additionally, prevention of boon application doesn't have to be one which automatically triggers the victims skill cooldown, it could either reset the cooldown so that as soon as the hex expires the desired boon could be applied right away.  Or, there could only be a portion of the cooldown refunded, such as 50%, so the hex is not as punitive.

[Fueki.4753]

Arenanet could also add a new mechanic that simply denies boons to have effects on the target, which would not interfere with boon application.

Traits like Pure Strike or Sun Moon Style (main hand), that are currently useless in PvP due to the boon spam,  could have an added effect against target that are affected by that mechanic.

Traits like Enchantment Collapse and Dispelling Force could also be changed and apply said mechanic, instead of being boon strips.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Arenanet could also add a new mechanic that simply denies boons to have effects on the target, which would not interfere with boon application.

Traits like Pure Strike or Sun Moon Style (main hand), that are currently useless in PvP due to the boon spam,  could have an added effect against target that are affected by that mechanic.

Traits like Enchantment Collapse and Dispelling Force could also be changed and apply said mechanic, instead of being boon strips.

That is a good idea, Not a condition, but an effect that is placed on the target that functions like the old resistance but for boons.

[RiyazGuerra.9203]

Kind of mixed feelings on this. 

 

Should the described mechanic (prevent boon effects but not interfere with boon application) be implemented, I fear Anet would take an overly cautious approach and limit the debuff to 2 seconds or so, plus a considerable cooldown of 25+ seconds.  If you factor opponent cc and kiting, this would result in a pretty underwhelming mechanic for Spellbreaker.  

 

I still favor the full prevention of boon application but if we are going to go with Fueki's implementation, at least add increased skill cooldown for all boons applied when under the debuff.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 hours ago, RiyazGuerra.9203 said:

Kind of mixed feelings on this. 

 

Should the described mechanic (prevent boon effects but not interfere with boon application) be implemented, I fear Anet would take an overly cautious approach and limit the debuff to 2 seconds or so, plus a considerable cooldown of 25+ seconds.  If you factor opponent cc and kiting, this would result in a pretty underwhelming mechanic for Spellbreaker.  

 

I still favor the full prevention of boon application but if we are going to go with Fueki's implementation, at least add increased skill cooldown for all boons applied when under the debuff.

Well if said debuff triggered along with Attacker's Insight, and stacked in duration, then I can see 2s being enough with certain builds. The question is should it allow the Spellbreaker to perma deny boons, or simply stop boons during small but critical moments? One would be OP toxic gameplay, the other however would require smart  tactics to make good use of.

[nthmetal.9652]

2 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

One would be OP toxic gameplay, the other however would require smart  tactics to make good use of.

Well, seeing how restealthing to break revealed is a game feature, we need to get the toxic option. It's no problem for other professions, why should it be a problem, when warrior has a toxic gameplay option available. 😉

Realistically speaking though, it's probably best to limit this feature to very specific boons removals. I'd opt for full counter, break enchantments and Winds of Disenchantment of course. But in turn no ICD.

Spellbreaker needs something that makes it strong again.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

Less magic, more damage. Warrior is physical. Removing boons seems logical in a sense. Replacing boons with debuffs is too magical. Too much magic, we need more damage. (And a who lot more stuff)

[ButterPeanut.9746]

Been saying this for years. They should just fully lean into the anit-boon concept with something like the following.

1. Drastically lower attacker's insight stats, but allow them to stack infinitely (or something crazy high like 50).

2. Agreed there should be a trait that has some interaction with the "winds" effect, which is exactly what this post is describing. We already have a way for spellbreaker to prevent boon re-application, it's just only on the elite and it applies to every boon. Maybe one of the GMs could be reworked to "after removing a boon, prevent that boon from being applied again for X seconds"

3. Meditations need a severe rework. Break enchantments is good flavor wise and good in wvw and the elite is good. Everything else could use an update. 

[Telgum.6071]

This would be amazing but I'm too afraid of nerfs.

 

Looking at the reactions on this thread, someone must be really confused!

Edited July 30, 2021 by Telgum.6071

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

On 7/29/2021 at 6:02 AM, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Less magic, more damage. Warrior is physical. Removing boons seems logical in a sense. Replacing boons with debuffs is too magical. Too much magic, we need more damage. (And a who lot more stuff)

Fire, stun, cripple and other debuffs are not magic, besides spell breaker is slightly magical.... unless you think the bubble  was a non-magical golden bubble of screw everything.  But if you can remove buff, the same method of blocking a buff logically is not even a step further.

[Lazze.9870]

On 6/24/2021 at 11:28 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

Also it would open a window for spellbreaker to become a pillar in wvw  squads. 

 

Not to argue against the idea or to say that this wouldn't make it even better (because it obviously would), but it already is thanks to bubbles and being able to remove boons otherwise at all. Not a pillar in the same sense that FB is, but you always want at least a couple of spellbreakers in the squad.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Lazze.9870