Marionette as an example of well balanced content in terms of difficulty

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Agree.

 

Players that played this game for years but still can't solo a champ with 1 mechanic need to get whipped into shape. 

 

Let's hope Anet continues with this kind of difficulty. 

 

The marionette (privat) is perfect. 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Dante.1763]

6 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Agree.

 

Players that played this game for years but still can't solo a champ with 1 mechanic need to get whipped into shape. 

 

Let's hope Anet continues with this kind of difficulty. 

 

The marionette (privat) is perfect. 

 

 

To be fair the lane 1 boss is really frustrating to solo.

 

On the other hand i wish i could solo the lane 2 boss. Itd be alot easier.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

16 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

To be fair the lane 1 boss is really frustrating to solo.

 

On the other hand i wish i could solo the lane 2 boss. Itd be alot easier.

 

Edit: I'm dumb. 

 

Boss 1 was designed for 2 players. 

 

Boss 4 is my favorite because how easy he is. 

 

Boss 5 is kittenn annoying. 

Edited July 21, 2021 by DanAlcedo.3281

[Dante.1763]

2 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

 

Boss 1 is my favorite because how easy it is. 

 

Boss 2 was the dmg from behind one? 

Yeah this one was design to kill with 2. 

 

Boss 5 is my least favorite.  So annoying. 

Lane 1 is the from behind one

Lane 2 is mines/bombs <- easier to solo imo

Lane 3 is the one requiring cc

Lane 4 is aoe/shrieking

Lane 5 is the split

 

Lane 2 and 4 are imo decently easy to solo. Lane 1 is a pain though it can be done(condi build).

 

Not sure on 3 or 5 solo wise.

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

 

Edit: I'm dumb. 

 

Boss 1 was designed for 2 players. 

 

Boss 4 is my favorite because how easy he is. 

 

Boss 5 is kittenn annoying. 

boss 4 and 5 mean different things to different ppl.. they both are not that hard but when a meele reaper looks at boss5, he will definitely think its super easy due to cleave radius and spin 2 win. but when a rifle deadeye looks at boss 5, he knows hes a dead meat. and boss 4 needs to be bursted down quick else itll fill up large part of the patform with black aoe and unwary players would never notice never know what killed them and also the occasional proximity mines that move towards you when encountering boss4.. if u run berserker build, the moving proximity mines take a huge chunk of your health unless u dodge nicely.

 

overall, all bosses are not that hard... it'll take atmost 2 tries each boss for most casual players to get accustomed to the boss fights

Edited July 21, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[DanAlcedo.3281]

2 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

boss 4 and 5 mean different things to different ppl.. they both are not that hard but when a meele reaper looks at boss5, he will definitely think its super easy due to cleave radius and spin 2 win. but when a rifle deadeye looks at boss 5, he knows hes a dead meat. and boss 4 needs to be bursted down quick else itll fill up large part of the patform with black aoe and unwary players would never notice never know what killed them and also the occasional proximity mines that move towards you when encountering boss4.. if u run berserker build, the moving proximity mines take a huge chunk of your health unless u dodge nicely

 

Sometimes I need a reminder that people play what they want and not what is best. 

 

 

 

[Geckoo.6018]

I still believe that the private version should have some sort of system in place that allows players to directly help other platforms once theirs is cleared, not immediately, but once certain time has passed you should be ablet o move to an uncleared platform, that way you can have a system in place that doesn't trivialize platforms but has enough breathing room to fix up mistakes.

 

It's not as much about the champions being hard as it is about being able to recover from a few personal mistakes that can potentially end up punishing 45+ people. I don't mind punishing mechanics that rely on each individual performing their roles or otherwhise it fails, but not for such a large scale event. For a raid boss or strike? sure, it's fine.

 

 

 

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

3 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

 

Sometimes I need a reminder that people play what they want and not what is best. 

 

 

 

most ppl dont even know theres a dps meter called arc dps.. and most ppl stick with their first created character and not willing to use diff class diff build based on situation.. raiders and fractal ppl adapt for efficiency... can't say the same for everyone I guess... maybe its how an mmo is and always will be.... but one thing is certain, raiders or not, efficient build or not, its the motivated ppl and those who wholeheartedly participate and give it their best makes these kinda events a success. coz they find ways to improve themselves either by build, gears, playstyle and participation and awareness and being present in the moment

[jwaz.1908]

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

 

Edit: I'm dumb. 

 

Boss 1 was designed for 2 players. 

 

Boss 4 is my favorite because how easy he is. 

 

Boss 5 is kittenn annoying. 

Lane 1 can be easily solo'd if you bring a pet/minion/etc... because the A.I. is coded to target said pet or minion. You could even use runes that spawn some sort of NPC.

[Rasimir.6239]

36 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

 

Sometimes I need a reminder that people play what they want and not what is best. 

 

"best" is subjective. It depends on your goals and limiting factors. While "best" for you might mean "max dps", for the person next to you it might mean "being able to survive despite bad reflexes/high ping/insert handicap of choice here", and the person on the other side could define "best" as "the setup that has the highest personal entertainment value".

 

For an objective "best" there needs to be a universal scale on which to measure it. It's more likely though that if you ask 10 players about what that scale would be for them, you'd get 20 wildly different answers 😉 .

[Tseison.4659]

To be honest, people have had enough time to learn the mechanics by now and should be LISTENING when squad leaders are taking the time to explain to everyone of the mechanics. The mechanics for the boss also shortly explain themselves under the bosses name when you click on them.

 

There’s been several occasions where lanes 1-3 weren’t able to defeat their boss or had one platform having no people present or wiped. Thank goodness for my luck those rounds because as I predicted that would happen, I just used a portal to get back in. Only good for one platform that I previously placed it on but it’s a good thing it was for the one the group wiped on. 

 

As a tip, if you have a lot of revival orbs stashed away and don’t mind using for the event, use them as an emergency if you’re on the platform, are able to solo the boss and have sufficient time left.

 

I’m terms of the bosses: 

• Lane 1 Boss: have one person aggro the boss while another attacks from behind, majority of people are running condi with trailblazing gear? I’m pretty sure one attack from the lane boss isn’t gonna kill you….
• Lane 2 Boss: Lead boss into their own mines….not take the boss for a walk in circles…
• Lane 3 Boss: pretty self explanatory, cc it down and then dps it down when the bar is depleted….two expansions now and you’d think people would know that mechanic by now…
• Lane 4 Boss: attack from range and try to avoid aoes.
• Lane 5 Boss: seems to always give people trouble but I do like the challenge myself. The boss when it splits moves really fast so KNOW when to dodge and not just continually tap your dodge button.
• Try to group them together with pulls or other control effects.
• Lure them close to another platform so your teammates can use aoes to assist.
• If the lane fails to kill the 5th boss, my fellow Mesmers can lay down a portal on each platform before being booted out and then have people with sickness rush to the designated portal Mesmer to port back in.

 

Overall, the bosses aren’t hard….people just have to stop being so impatient and listen to instructions. It only takes a couple of people not listening and paying attention to mess up the event, stop wasting people’s time on little mistakes that could’ve been avoided.

Edited July 21, 2021 by Tseison.4659

[DanAlcedo.3281]

14 minutes ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

"best" is subjective. It depends on your goals and limiting factors. While "best" for you might mean "max dps", for the person next to you it might mean "being able to survive despite bad reflexes/high ping/insert handicap of choice here", and the person on the other side could define "best" as "the setup that has the highest personal entertainment value".

 

For an objective "best" there needs to be a universal scale on which to measure it. It's more likely though that if you ask 10 players about what that scale would be for them, you'd get 20 wildly different answers 😉 .

 

Best isn't subjective. 

We know what's best in any given situation and if not we will find it. 

 

For example:

 

I would love to play tempest in Wvw but I know there is no reason to play it over Firebrand and Scrapper because both of them are leagues better at support. 

 

People are willingly using something that's worse because it's fun for them to play a worse option. 

 

I could never do that. My brain reminds me with every button I press that I could do something better. 

 

But that's just me. 

 

 

[Dante.1763]

6 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

 

Best isn't subjective. 

We know what's best in any given situation and if not we will find it. 

 

For example:

 

I would love to play tempest in Wvw but I know there is no reason to play it over Firebrand and Scrapper because both of them are leagues better at support. 

 

People are willingly using something that's worse because it's fun for them to play a worse option. 

 

I could never do that. My brain reminds me with every button I press that I could do something better. 

 

But that's just me. 

 

 

Hmmm i disagree in part, i dont know whats good for wvw. I take my condi sb into wve and do just fine. I take my weaver into it as well and do just fine. Can i solo other players? No. But i cant do that on any class so it doesnt make a difference xD

[DanAlcedo.3281]

29 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Hmmm i disagree in part, i dont know whats good for wvw. I take my condi sb into wve and do just fine. I take my weaver into it as well and do just fine. Can i solo other players? No. But i cant do that on any class so it doesnt make a difference xD

The point is that the knowledge is available to you. 

 

YES staff weaver is doing fine but it's also true that a different choice in class and build would grant greater results. 

 

 

[Dante.1763]

11 minutes ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

The point is that the knowledge is available to you. 

 

YES staff weaver is doing fine but it's also true that a different choice in class and build would grant greater results. 

 

 

 

Ill take your word that the info is available as ive never seen it when looking for builds.

 

Heres the thing though: the builds and classes that do better in that mode are builds and classes i dont find enjoyable to play, or cant get results out of and at that point becomes whats not best for me. Whats best for me is playing a class i find fun and can get results from which is why i play the two classes i mentioned.

 

Whats best for my mom for example is using a hybrid longbow/shortbow build.

 

As the person above said, best is subjective depending on what each person wants out of the game, what they want to do with their character and more importantly what they find fun to play. 

 

[Rasimir.6239]

21 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Best isn't subjective. 

We know what's best in any given situation and if not we will find it. 

You've missed my point. Defining what's "best" for any given situation always depends on the scale on which you measure said "best". For you it might well be "highest damage output" or "most efficient gameplay", but that it not a universal scale.

 

This isn't the olympics or proffesional football. This is a game, and most people play it for entertainment value. Once you start measuring your gameplay in entertainment value, "best" quickly becomes a very subjective thing, simply because each of us is entertained (or frustrated) by very different activities and situations.

[Gehenna.3625]

On 7/15/2021 at 9:35 PM, Vancho.8750 said:

There is no problem with them leaving, if they care about the game they will learn at least the basics and try have an useful build for their skill level if not it is just that the game is not for them, there are allot of games that are made just for them. Changing a game to suit a demographic that is not invested enough to learn basic things would not be good for the long term health of the game and would dilute the experience so it doesn't cater to anyone, just a bland pile of grey and that is not a good spot to be . 

That is still on Arenanet to teach people how play the game and make people that don't care, to care at least to the point at not being a burden.   

I think that's a rather naive view of things.

 

This game is actually perfect for casuals and it's the mainstay of the player base because of it. And people tend to stop caring about games when the games stop caring for them.

 

They are very much invested into this game, but not the way you want them to be. This game is called Fashion Wars for a reason. There is a reason why the vast majority of content is casual friendly and can be solo'd. Sure Anet tried to get more people interested in structured group content but most people avoid PvP, Raids and Fractals for a reason and there is just so much to do outside of that so I doubt those Strike Missions are doing a lot of good.

 

And mind you Fractals and Raids came later. So they are a later addition to the game. There just are a lot of people out there that don't care about learning the combat system because combat isn't their focus. It's a necessary side note to them. And then it sounds dangerously close to you trying to tell them how to enjoy this game. 

 

So keep the open world and story lines to casuals and make structured group content more punishing unless you l2p. Except, the fact that they're trying to bring more people into raids with strike missions, sounds like they see that not enough people are into raiding. Which could mean that if their efforts are unsuccessful, they will have an increasingly harder time to make a business case for future raids.

[Vancho.8750]

17 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I think that's a rather naive view of things.

 

This game is actually perfect for casuals and it's the mainstay of the player base because of it. And people tend to stop caring about games when the games stop caring for them.

 

They are very much invested into this game, but not the way you want them to be. This game is called Fashion Wars for a reason. There is a reason why the vast majority of content is casual friendly and can be solo'd. Sure Anet tried to get more people interested in structured group content but most people avoid PvP, Raids and Fractals for a reason and there is just so much to do outside of that so I doubt those Strike Missions are doing a lot of good.

 

And mind you Fractals and Raids came later. So they are a later addition to the game. There just are a lot of people out there that don't care about learning the combat system because combat isn't their focus. It's a necessary side note to them. And then it sounds dangerously close to you trying to tell them how to enjoy this game. 

 

So keep the open world and story lines to casuals and make structured group content more punishing unless you l2p. Except, the fact that they're trying to bring more people into raids with strike missions, sounds like they see that not enough people are into raiding. Which could mean that if their efforts are unsuccessful, they will have an increasingly harder time to make a business case for future raids.

Lets just start from here, casual does not mean non invested, casual does not mean someone that doesn't know how the game works. A casual player most probably has done most of the content from PVP to Raids, even Fashion Wars means that people that take it seriously play the hardest content to gain the Fashion, they even might not give a kitten about the content but I'm quite sure they took some part of the game seriously to get their item, serious Fashion Wars is not casual gameplay.

Notice also I didn't write anywhere the word casual, casual players do not AFK to gain rewards for someone else's work, that is a leech. The whole "Don't tell me how to play the game" doesn't float here, if we are in an instance PVE, PVP doesn't matter and there is a clear goal so there is expectation that everyone is on the same page of completing the goal, if you do not reach the minimal required level you are not playing the game how you want you are trolling or griefing, so yes I'm telling people how to play the game, I'm telling them that we play this game together and wasting time while not having fun is pointless, people do not log in the game to entertain and drag around people that do not care.

By definition I'm casual, I don't do raid or fractals that much but I have done some. I don't think having less is good even if I don't do them and the only issue is see with them is that there is no lets say easy mode or public or lfr or whatever that is made so people learn the mechanics instead of pushing it all to the community to do training runs. Also LW maps and story are fun, but wasting a boss just for the story is lame, giving one strike, dungeon, DRM, fractal, raid whatever with it gives something to the not so casual players to do, something for everybody.

 The whole broader audience thing is starting to show its cons these days, since people that cared once would probably not bother to give a good word about the game and the broader audience generally goes for the next new thing. 

Games have rules, and challenge is presented so people have  fun by working out how to complete the challenge in the confines of the rules, if the game does not challenge its players there is no point to the challenge and if the players do not care about the rules there is no point to them, the game becomes stagnant and boring and people leave. Arenanet not trying to push the people up and by catering to the lowest common denominator has churned way way more people than they kept by doing that.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I fully agree, but it needs the public mission to have it being accessible enough for the masses. Since it is closed, it has become a lot more tricky to get a successful run because new players fail the mechanics and this will often lead to 50 players failing the mission.

 

And this incentivizes commanders to enter additional requirements like raid killproofs (Ping 250 LI) or elite spec requirements (Scourge only) which is unwelcome to all players who do not fit the requirements.