EoD is a $30 Patch.....

[Dante.1763]

33 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

It's not a pain in the kitten to navigate around. I can get anywhere in the zone relatively quickly. Quicker than in many PoF zones.  You just have to learn the zone.

And i find it to be the opposite. Glad i finished off all the achievements out there, and only need to go to the Chak gerent area once a day, because outside doing the story and said Gerent i wont go that map, and i hope they dont make more like it, it is one of the worst zones ive ever played in any game, in my opinion.

 

Verdant brink, Auric Basin are way way better designed as maps, and i would love to see maps with that sense of verticalaity, without the awful structure and false paths of Tangled Depths.

 

Also, you are trying to say their opinion is wrong, and well, that doesnt work in this case. In their opinion its very confusing, and mine too aligns with theirs. It reminded me way to much of the the awful design that was the city in GW. Going through it without mounts, like on launch, made it even worse.

 

IF. IF. we had a functioning minimap that was way better at showing depth, transition to different layers and a way to select say a POI/Vista/WP/(unlocked or not) and have the minimap draw a path to it(including shortcuts and the fastest routes), i might think different.

[Vayne.8563]

9 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

And i find it to be the opposite. Glad i finished off all the achievements out there, and only need to go to the Chak gerent area once a day, because outside doing the story and said Gerent i wont go that map, and i hope they dont make more like it, it is one of the worst zones ive ever played in any game, in my opinion.

 

Verdant brink, Auric Basin are way way better designed as maps, and i would love to see maps with that sense of verticalaity, without the awful structure and false paths of Tangled Depths.

 

Also, you are trying to say their opinion is wrong, and well, that doesnt work in this case. In their opinion its very confusing, and mine too aligns with theirs. It reminded me way to much of the the awful design that was the city in GW. Going through it without mounts, like on launch, made it even worse.

 

IF. IF. we had a functioning minimap that was way better at showing depth, transition to different layers and a way to select say a POI/Vista/WP/(unlocked or not) and have the minimap draw a path to it(including shortcuts and the fastest routes), i might think different.

If we had something routing for us, it would destroy not only that zone for me, but most zones for me.  The zone makes you think. I'm not sure but I don't think when the zone came out we had little arrows telling us of a POI or HP was above or below us and those help immensely.

But having a map that shows you the fastest route somewhere would kill exploring altogether.

[Dawdler.8521]

3 hours ago, Zeph.5927 said:

I guess I fail to see how “convoluted and a pain in the kitten to navigate around” is somehow a “masterpiece in game design”. Generally, when game design is annoying, frustrating, or unnecessarily time consuming, it’s also usually not considered good as well. Of course, there will always be weirdos on the internet that consider something good, regardless of how bad it actually is. To each their own I guess.

I dont understand what you mean. It would be the perfect WvW map.

[Cuks.8241]

Im sure its not everyones cup of tea but its great if you like platforming and exploring. Moving around is actualy quite fast once you know the shortcuts and have the relevant masteries. 

I dont understand the mini map complaints. I found it sufficient the first time I was exploring it. More than that and it would ruin the exploration. Whats the point of exploration if the game draws a line for you.

[yann.1946]

6 hours ago, Zeph.5927 said:

I guess I fail to see how “convoluted and a pain in the kitten to navigate around” is somehow a “masterpiece in game design”. Generally, when game design is annoying, frustrating, or unnecessarily time consuming, it’s also usually not considered good as well. Of course, there will always be weirdos on the internet that consider something good, regardless of how bad it actually is. To each their own I guess.

Because it gives a good sense of exploration, and lots of satisfaction of having mastered the map. 

 

You do realise theirs not some objective measure of good or bad design? 

[yann.1946]

On 8/7/2021 at 2:19 AM, Sobx.1758 said:

...but this had nothing to do with what I said, so I don't know who you were trying to respond to and why you've quoted me instead. Hence: irrelevant to anything I said. Glad I could spell it out for you.

That's because your original response to trejgon made no sense. You where not responding to what they said. 

[Zeph.5927]

9 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

It's not a pain in the kitten to navigate around. I can get anywhere in the zone relatively quickly. Quicker than in many PoF zones.  You just have to learn the zone.

I’ll take the PoF zones that are designed with the mounts in mind (way more fun IMO) any day over the disaster that was Tangled Depths. 

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Zeph.5927 said:

I’ll take the PoF zones that are designed with the mounts in mind (way more fun IMO) any day over the disaster that was Tangled Depths. 

Considering it's a jungle themed map literally called "tangled depths", it feels like the map does what it was designed to do. Sure, I wasn't a fan when I first got there either, but after that initial phase, it becomes pretty clear it's a well designed/made map. Not even close to being disaster, as long as the goal isn't "go there once and never come back" -and it obviously isn't.

[Gehenna.3625]

9 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

If we had something routing for us, it would destroy not only that zone for me, but most zones for me.  The zone makes you think. I'm not sure but I don't think when the zone came out we had little arrows telling us of a POI or HP was above or below us and those help immensely.

But having a map that shows you the fastest route somewhere would kill exploring altogether.

I may not agree entirely with you on Tangled Depths, but a map that shows you the fastest route is definitely not something I would want. 

[synk.6907]

I unironically really, really enjoy the HoT maps. I did not understand the paths and connections when I first got there, and it made exploration and learning them all the more interesting. Tangled Depths is fantastic, and I say that fully aware that I had some frustration-induced cursing when I couldn't seem to get to that event below me or figure out how to get to that PoI or hero point at first. And once you know the map, at least for me, it all flows together really well, creating layers of content in the same area.

 

I am very thankful they diverged from the core map design and remain somewhat unique. The jungle not only was Mordremoth's territory, it was Mordremoth itself.

 

 

Uh I dunno if the original topic is still going on in this thread; it remains to be seen how much I will enjoy EoD, but I've liked Cantha since the original release of Factions so I suppose I'm excited enough I don't think it's just a patch.

Edited August 14, 2021 by synk.6907

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, Zeph.5927 said:

I’ll take the PoF zones that are designed with the mounts in mind (way more fun IMO) any day over the disaster that was Tangled Depths. 

And I'll take Tangled Depths over ANY PoF zone, which are largely boring, at least to navigate.  The maps are there, and you ride through them.  I mean you've got a decent percentage of Domain of Vabbi was a storm that makes you ride a mount or get struck by lightning.  You have things that knock you off your mount quite often in the Delsolation.  The aggro range of the creatures is much further than in HoT.

 

Because some people can't learn a map.  Shrugs.

[Dante.1763]

1 hour ago, synk.6907 said:

 

 

Uh I dunno if the original topic is still going on in this thread; it remains to be seen how much I will enjoy EoD, but I've liked Cantha since the original release of Factions so I suppose I'm excited enough I don't think it's just a patch.

Yea, this has gotten off topic. None of us(not you) will ever agree with each other on if TD is good or bad, so it might be best to just drop it and get back on topic.

[Zereqiel.8249]

$30 is really cheap. Why are you expecting so much at such a price? $30 is like your average takeout price. Instead of eating something which youd forget about in the next day, why not buy the expansion. If you play 30 hours in it (which is very possible) then that would be worth the money, a buck per hour. 

[Brother Dulfite.5793]

On 7/27/2021 at 12:40 PM, Luclinraider.2317 said:

Their big features are a mount.....you know....something we've had multiple times in a patch already......

 

A skiff....something that already exists as mount...this isn't a new feature.

 

And, Fishing.....something that is literally a patch....about as big and feature heavy as our sitting in chairs patch.

 

The only thing that seems new is specializations....so we have a one feature expansion with the rest being patch content.

 

People leaving WoW in mass and multiple new MMO's coming out, GW2 needed to deliver a reason to come to our game...instead they told everyone to steer clear because they charge expansion prices for patch content.

 

What were they thinking?

 

Also, it's true, there could be tons more they are holding back on....but if this is the case then they need a new Marketing Director. Whoever did the PoF reveal needs to be brought back. Otherwise, there just isn't enough content here to warrant a full expansion and the price that comes with.

As usual with expansions, you get more than just the content at release date, but  all the updates/Living World updates that take place for months/years after. How many extra stories and features did we get after buying HoT? And PoF? A lot more than initially came with the release of the expansions. It isn't about what you get on day one, but what you get down the road.

[Brother Dulfite.5793]

1 hour ago, Zereqiel.8249 said:

$30 is really cheap. Why are you expecting so much at such a price? $30 is like your average takeout price. Instead of eating something which youd forget about in the next day, why not buy the expansion. If you play 30 hours in it (which is very possible) then that would be worth the money, a buck per hour. 

Gamers are just cheap now days. We were paying $60 (and some as many as $75-80) for N64 games back in 1996, which would be at least $104 right now adjusted for inflation. And games were a lot cheaper to develop back then. You didn't have to hire talented voice actors, the music was limited by the technology so nothing too complicated, games were a lot shorter, cinematics hadn't become an industry standard, etc. Yet people bought the games. Now, people want so much more and they complain about prices that, adjusted for inflation, are ridiculously lower than they used to be. We've become spoiled and entitled, all to the detriment of an increasingly overworked, underappreciated, often-abused, and crunch heavy software development culture.

[lezbefriends.7516]

2 hours ago, Brother Dulfite.5793 said:

Gamers are just cheap now days. We were paying $60 (and some as many as $75-80) for N64 games back in 1996, which would be at least $104 right now adjusted for inflation. And games were a lot cheaper to develop back then. You didn't have to hire talented voice actors, the music was limited by the technology so nothing too complicated, games were a lot shorter, cinematics hadn't become an industry standard, etc. Yet people bought the games. Now, people want so much more and they complain about prices that, adjusted for inflation, are ridiculously lower than they used to be. We've become spoiled and entitled, all to the detriment of an increasingly overworked, underappreciated, often-abused, and crunch heavy software development culture.

But old games were actually good...

[ragnarock.4592]

From what has been shown so far I would say that it is a dlc

[keenedge.9675]

Techinically it's all DLC .. but they gave SOME highlights with more info to come.  Don't worry, Christmas WILL come ....

[Zeph.5927]

12 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Considering it's a jungle themed map literally called "tangled depths", it feels like the map does what it was designed to do. Sure, I wasn't a fan when I first got there either, but after that initial phase, it becomes pretty clear it's a well designed/made map. Not even close to being disaster, as long as the goal isn't "go there once and never come back" -and it obviously isn't.

You keep stating your opinion as fact. That’s not how that works.

[Zeph.5927]

11 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

And I'll take Tangled Depths over ANY PoF zone, which are largely boring, at least to navigate.  The maps are there, and you ride through them.  I mean you've got a decent percentage of Domain of Vabbi was a storm that makes you ride a mount or get struck by lightning.  You have things that knock you off your mount quite often in the Delsolation.  The aggro range of the creatures is much further than in HoT.

 

Because some people can't learn a map.  Shrugs.

Learning a map =/= good map design. See how that works?

[Vayne.8563]

45 minutes ago, Zeph.5927 said:

Learning a map =/= good map design. See how that works?

 Sure, but not learning a map doesn't qualify one to judge the map design.  I've learned the map and the design is quite good...once you figure out the underlying logic behind it.  If you're running around having trouble finding your way, that doesn't make the map design bad. Not if others (not just me but others in this thread) have solved that puzzle and think it's wonderful.

[Dante.1763]

3 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

 Sure, but not learning a map doesn't qualify one to judge the map design.  I've learned the map and the design is quite good...once you figure out the underlying logic behind it.  If you're running around having trouble finding your way, that doesn't make the map design bad. Not if others (not just me but others in this thread) have solved that puzzle and think it's wonderful.

Neither does it make it good if others(in this thread) think its bad, your opinion =/= fact, neither does ours.

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, Dante.1763 said:

Neither does it make it good if others(in this thread) think its bad, your opinion =/= fact, neither does ours.

I have no problem with people saying I like this zone, or I don't like this zone. That's not really my issue. Badly designed however, is something I feel is different than I don't like the design. Saying it's badly designed means this person, who doesn't really get the zone, can't find their way around the zone, for whatever reason, is qualified to comment on the design of the zone. They can say they don't believe it's well designed. But they can't say it's not well designed because that's just an opinion. I'm fighting fire with fire.

You don't like the zone. Fine. I have no issue with that.  But badly designed implies something different. You can say the minimap is inadequate for the design of the zone and I'd even agree with that.  Saying you don't like something is fair game. I don't mind that. But how things are phrased carries weight and if I see something that I don't agree with, I'm going to comment.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

Am amused how this thread has devolved into an argument on whether Tangle Depths is a good map or not, all thanks to an off-hand comment someone made for an entirely different purpose.

[Dante.1763]

4 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Am amused how this thread has devolved into an argument on whether Tangle Depths is a good map or not, all thanks to an off-hand comment someone made for an entirely different purpose.

Well, the thread kinda ran its course after the first 10 pages, im honestly surprised its still up xD