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  • RoyalPredator.9163RoyalPredator.9163 Member ✭✭
    edited August 2, 2020

    Okay, so there are problems with the RANGER in WWW.
    I'm running on GS/LB on almost 9 years, daily. Main Char.
    Tried many different builds for DPS and all of them lacks DPS... Or when has some, it seriously lacks survability, which is a huge suicide in WWW roaming.

    FYI, a Ranger's Skirmishing would be to be a balance between Warrior and Thief. The trait lines are just rubbish for this... If you specialise on 2 weapons at once, LB + GS in my case, there will be a lot of sacrifices. And whatever dmg we deal, will be outhealed. We're destroyed by conditions in matter of seconds, since cleanishing takes ages, meanwhile some random stupid kid just spamms torments and bleeds with chilled and fears, which means we're on uncontrollable row of stucking and skills recharging (even DEFENSIVE skils kitten) to counter them...
    Reapers, they're the worst. Can kill any ranger in 2 seconds, no matter what. Once locked, poof dead. Spinning that scythe dealing twice the damage of our total HP and even the conditions.... Because what? We should have nice condition resistances anyway.

    It's NOT okay that some dude always cry on WWW Balance forums and Rangers getting nerfed to the ground!! Kitten not okay!
    Is there any actual devs that knows rangers and playing it a lot? Sure there isn't any...

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2020

    @RoyalPredator.9163 IMO issue with rangers is that beastmaster was suposed to be a new gimmick to "FIX rangers" core and please to those who wanted to remove pet, nor balance nor nerfs wont work well in a class just to be a gimmick upgrade, beastmaster is quite decent atm for what is being used to, but its just a stronger core ranger nothing more.

    Most issue in this game are due class design, that conflicts with its core or some other spec where ending overshodowing other class or still be useless.

    IMO there are 3 classes that were awfully bad designed since they were made to carry at release, wich were DH, Scourge and Beastmaster, IMO this 3 spec losted all its theme since they were INITIALLY awfully designed to be OP and when that receives the balance hammer..... what was made to the class exist is no longer there.

    DH (coulkd wipe 5 players due its daze on traps and very high damage on traps, i once managed to win 1 vs 10+ due how broken traps were on a mace focus veruy blocky build, the daze was really broken...)
    Scourge was killing entirelly the melee combat, note the range is not 900 cause the circle top is at 1200 range while 900 is the center of the shade, it was not short in range as most think rhey could outrange them...
    Beastmaster, DPS easy gimmick similiar to DH, offers nothing to the teamplay and nowaydays cant do nothing alone, ended being just a upgrade from core.

    Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
    Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
    Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    @RoyalPredator.9163 IMO issue with rangers is that beastmaster was suposed to be a new gimmick to "FIX rangers" core and please to those who wanted to remove pet, nor balance nor nerfs wont work well in a class just to be a gimmick upgrade, beastmaster is quite decent atm for what is being used to, but its just a stronger core ranger nothing more.

    Most issue in this game are due class design, that conflicts with its core or some other spec where ending overshodowing other class or still be useless.

    IMO there are 3 classes that were awfully bad designed since they were made to carry at release, wich were DH, Scourge and Beastmaster, IMO this 3 spec losted all its theme since they were INITIALLY awfully designed to be OP and when that receives the balance hammer..... what was made to the class exist is no longer there.

    DH (coulkd wipe 5 players due its daze on traps and very high damage on traps )
    Scourge was killing entirelly the melee combat, note the range is not 900 cause the circle top is at 1200 range while 900 is the center of the shade, it was not short in range as most think...
    Beastmaster, DPS easy gimmick similiar to DH, offers nothing to the teamplay and nowaydays cant do nothing alone, ended being just a upgrade from core.

    I got extremely confused until I realised that with "beastmaster" you mean the "soulbeast" elite spec.
    Is that how the spec is called when translated from your native language?

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2020

    @Kodama.6453 yes sorry, i tend to call it beastmaster cause soulbeast actually never cling to me, same has dragon hunter, the hunter that hunts nothing wich Anet said was based on wich hunters (its mindblowing how they reached that...)... names and specs and their themes dont make much sense to me lol...

    Interesting now... im actually thinking instead of call soulbeasts spikes in comms i tend to say beastmasters. the sound is easyer to call it tho, since im not english main speaker.

    Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
    Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
    Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon

  • soulbeast has the best range burst after stupid lich form and before thief pewpew in pvp.
    soulbeast is atm the best dps in pve before the dragon hunter.
    in WvW it has some problem fighting bus because of retaliation. but its good at roaming and in target focus teams.

    core ranger has actually a very powerfull sustain/dps build for pvp/WvW with the pet boonshare. (mera regen, nearly perma protec, etc) which is better than soulbeast at doing what it does. but soulbeast will have the better burst damage.

  • Escanor.8157Escanor.8157 Member
    edited August 7, 2020

    I really like the warrior, but his greatsword weapon and his skills are very limited, there should be a buff at Gs and create new skills to replace WhirlWind and Hundred Blades...In my opinion these 2 skills spoil the warrior, a player who likes Gs will probably prefer Guardian than a warrior just for that factor.
    An interesting skill for the warrior, would be like the Revanent's "Frigid Blitz" skill another interesting skill would be a skill that causes a high damage just by pressing a key and scoring a single hit like Gs "Hilt Bash" from Ranger.
    And in order not to remain OP the exchange of weapons could take longer when the GreatSword is equipped, warrior must have a GreatSword at the Guardian level in this meta this GreatSword is obsolete.
    The warrior needs only high damage and a little resistance. That's being a warrior, the current Gs warrior is more for a Barry Allen known as Flash

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Escanor.8157 said:
    I really like the warrior, but his greatsword weapon and his skills are very limited, there should be a buff at Gs and create new skills to replace WhirlWind and Hundred Blades...In my opinion these 2 skills spoil the warrior, a player who likes Gs will probably prefer Guardian than a warrior just for that factor.
    An interesting skill for the warrior, would be like the Revanent's "Frigid Blitz" skill another interesting skill would be a skill that causes a high damage just by pressing a key and scoring a single hit like Gs "Hilt Bash" from Ranger.
    And in order not to remain OP the exchange of weapons could take longer when the GreatSword is equipped, warrior must have a GreatSword at the Guardian level in this meta this GreatSword is obsolete.
    The warrior needs only high damage and a little resistance. That's being a warrior, the current Gs warrior is more for a Barry Allen known as Flash

    You don't play a "weapon", you play a "profession".
    The high damage skill is supposed to be the "burst" skill which on GS warrior do reasonably high damage. As for whirlwind strike it's a very useful skill due to it's evade frame (It was one of the best tool of the warrior when running dungeons was still a thing). Hundred blade is an heritage from GW, I doubt it will be removed. All in all, the strength of the warrior's GS lie in it's trait, allowing him to build pretty quickly 25 might stacks and maintain fury in optimales conditions.

  • RoyalPredator.9163RoyalPredator.9163 Member ✭✭
    edited August 9, 2020

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    When talking about WvW, then I guess you mean zerg fights in which rangers are not really optimal?
    Doesn't mean that rangers are totally unwelcome in WvW, tho, it is just a roamer class just like thief.

    And saying that rangers are not really welcome in any game mode is obviously wrong.
    Because of the unique buffs your class has, druids are the strongest meta healer for high end PvE like raids.

    Nope, for WWW 1v1 and hunting. Not zergs.
    Rangers ARE laughtable and only tryhards like me playing it, since there is no much success in it... better to roll something, like a Reaper that stucnlocks and does like 35,000 DPS with a single skill **meanwhile kittening **6 stack of Torment **on the oponent... all with **DOUBLE HP POOL.
    When downed, Life Syphon drains like 10k Hp within 2 seconds anyway.... Even if stealthed.

    I'm obviously right. Just have to check it deeper, mates. :|

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Escanor.8157 said:
    I really like the warrior, but his greatsword weapon and his skills are very limited, there should be a buff at Gs and create new skills to replace WhirlWind and Hundred Blades...In my opinion these 2 skills spoil the warrior, a player who likes Gs will probably prefer Guardian than a warrior just for that factor.
    An interesting skill for the warrior, would be like the Revanent's "Frigid Blitz" skill another interesting skill would be a skill that causes a high damage just by pressing a key and scoring a single hit like Gs "Hilt Bash" from Ranger.
    And in order not to remain OP the exchange of weapons could take longer when the GreatSword is equipped, warrior must have a GreatSword at the Guardian level in this meta this GreatSword is obsolete.
    The warrior needs only high damage and a little resistance. That's being a warrior, the current Gs warrior is more for a Barry Allen known as Flash

    You don't play a "weapon", you play a "profession".
    The high damage skill is supposed to be the "burst" skill which on GS warrior do reasonably high damage. As for whirlwind strike it's a very useful skill due to it's evade frame (It was one of the best tool of the warrior when running dungeons was still a thing). Hundred blade is an heritage from GW, I doubt it will be removed. All in all, the strength of the warrior's GS lie in it's trait, allowing him to build pretty quickly 25 might stacks and maintain fury in optimales conditions.

    And yet that "burst" skill is weaker than the AA chain if you never hit the last strike...

  • @Josiah.2967 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Looked good till i saw the necro update what dose this class get such a free ride?

    Being the bottom of the barrel for end game PVE has its privileges. I am fine with another professions taking that position.

    I think you misread "necro" as "engi", and didn't read the second half of the statement?

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2020

    @RoyalPredator.9163 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    When talking about WvW, then I guess you mean zerg fights in which rangers are not really optimal?
    Doesn't mean that rangers are totally unwelcome in WvW, tho, it is just a roamer class just like thief.

    And saying that rangers are not really welcome in any game mode is obviously wrong.
    Because of the unique buffs your class has, druids are the strongest meta healer for high end PvE like raids.

    Nope, for WWW 1v1 and hunting. Not zergs.
    Rangers ARE laughtable and only tryhards like me playing it, since there is no much success in it... better to roll something, like a Reaper that stucnlocks and does like 35,000 DPS with a single skill **meanwhile kittening **6 stack of Torment **on the oponent... all with **DOUBLE HP POOL.
    When downed, Life Syphon drains like 10k Hp within 2 seconds anyway.... Even if stealthed.

    I'm obviously right. Just have to check it deeper, mates. :|

    You're running LB ranger and you can't deal with downstate necro life syphon?
    I don't understand.

    And what "tryhards" have to do with any of this? By definition(?), tryhards would pick the best, most efficient way to win the fights.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @RoyalPredator.9163 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    When talking about WvW, then I guess you mean zerg fights in which rangers are not really optimal?
    Doesn't mean that rangers are totally unwelcome in WvW, tho, it is just a roamer class just like thief.

    And saying that rangers are not really welcome in any game mode is obviously wrong.
    Because of the unique buffs your class has, druids are the strongest meta healer for high end PvE like raids.

    Nope, for WWW 1v1 and hunting. Not zergs.
    Rangers ARE laughtable and only tryhards like me playing it, since there is no much success in it... better to roll something, like a Reaper that stucnlocks and does like 35,000 DPS with a single skill **meanwhile kittening **6 stack of Torment **on the oponent... all with **DOUBLE HP POOL.
    When downed, Life Syphon drains like 10k Hp within 2 seconds anyway.... Even if stealthed.

    I'm obviously right. Just have to check it deeper, mates. :|

    You're running LB ranger and you can't deal with downstate necro life syphon?
    I don't understand.

    And what "tryhards" have to do with any of this? By definition(?), tryhards would pick the best, most efficient way to win the fights.

    Imagine having the range of Ranger Longbow, and complaining about being downed by Necro down skills...

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2020

    @RoyalPredator.9163 said:
    Rangers ARE laughtable and only tryhards like me playing it, since there is no much success in it... better to roll something, like a Reaper that stucnlocks and does like 35,000 DPS with a single skill **meanwhile kittening **6 stack of Torment **on the oponent... all with **DOUBLE HP POOL.
    When downed, Life Syphon drains like 10k Hp within 2 seconds anyway.... Even if stealthed.

    I'm obviously right. Just have to check it deeper, mates. :|

    • Does not know what tryhard means. (It's the oposite of what you think. When you are saying ranger is tryhard, then this means that ranger is so effective at roaming, that it is a must pick for people looking for a guaranteed win. Tryhard = maximizing chances)
    • Says necro can deal 35k dps... and since this is not enough hyperbole: on a CONDI build! (Condi necro has the weakest damage of all condi builds - class-wide! - because it has additional corrupts to effectively debuff the target.)
    • Confuses 2 seconds for 10k damage with 5 seconds in reality. (Btw. condi necro deals basically no damage with the downed siphon.)
    • Lacks commons sense to outrange the 900 range siphon with his 1200/1500 range longbow. (That part hurt the most, when I read it!)
    • In general: mixes up different builds (even condi and power), puts them all together and calls the class broken.

    Fantastic! You should visit the other necro traits in the pvp subsection. You have a lot in common with the people there.

  • Zawn.9647Zawn.9647 Member ✭✭✭

    @RoyalPredator.9163 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    When talking about WvW, then I guess you mean zerg fights in which rangers are not really optimal?
    Doesn't mean that rangers are totally unwelcome in WvW, tho, it is just a roamer class just like thief.

    And saying that rangers are not really welcome in any game mode is obviously wrong.
    Because of the unique buffs your class has, druids are the strongest meta healer for high end PvE like raids.

    Nope, for WWW 1v1 and hunting. Not zergs.
    Rangers ARE laughtable and only tryhards like me playing it, since there is no much success in it... better to roll something, like a Reaper that stucnlocks and does like 35,000 DPS with a single skill **meanwhile kittening **6 stack of Torment **on the oponent... all with **DOUBLE HP POOL.
    When downed, Life Syphon drains like 10k Hp within 2 seconds anyway.... Even if stealthed.

    I'm obviously right. Just have to check it deeper, mates. :|

    yeah i agree... its laughtable how easy it is to press LB2 and watch everything die from a huge distance :)

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RoyalPredator.9163 said:
    Okay, so there are problems with the RANGER in WWW.
    I'm running on GS/LB on almost 9 years, daily. Main Char.
    Tried many different builds for DPS and all of them lacks DPS... Or when has some, it seriously lacks survability, which is a huge suicide in WWW roaming.

    FYI, a Ranger's Skirmishing would be to be a balance between Warrior and Thief. The trait lines are just rubbish for this... If you specialise on 2 weapons at once, LB + GS in my case, there will be a lot of sacrifices. And whatever dmg we deal, will be outhealed. We're destroyed by conditions in matter of seconds, since cleanishing takes ages, meanwhile some random stupid kid just spamms torments and bleeds with chilled and fears, which means we're on uncontrollable row of stucking and skills recharging (even DEFENSIVE skils kitten) to counter them...
    Reapers, they're the worst. Can kill any ranger in 2 seconds, no matter what. Once locked, poof dead. Spinning that scythe dealing twice the damage of our total HP and even the conditions.... Because what? We should have nice condition resistances anyway.

    It's NOT okay that some dude always cry on WWW Balance forums and Rangers getting nerfed to the ground!! Kitten not okay!
    Is there any actual devs that knows rangers and playing it a lot? Sure there isn't any...

    LoL. This obviously has to be a troll post
    Ranger is number 2 best roaming class in wvw right after thief.
    You can still do 18-24k dmg with one skill combo: one wolf pack + rapid fire.

    Fun fact, you can deal the same amount of damage with 1500+ range autoattacks, that reaper on a normal (not full berserker) build does with it's autoattacks, but reaper has to go melee.
    Reapers spin to win is like 10-15k damage. On a normal, not full glass offensive build, but that skill has a considerable cooldown, rapid fire has 1/3rd of the cooldown.

    If you're getting killed by necros in general, that's just a learn to play issue, nothing else.

  • @Sobx.1758 said:
    You're running LB ranger and you can't deal with downstate necro life syphon?
    I don't understand.

    And what "tryhards" have to do with any of this? By definition(?), tryhards would pick the best, most efficient way to win the fights.

    Well, tryhard is wrong word then. I mean, those who keep trying and trying and die until swaps to a "nice" META char and Win.
    But yes, I have like 19k HP, and they syphon as hell. I'm ofc mostly berserk but have some survability up. They're Insane... Try with Ranger.
    AND it's LB/GS. Downed with GS, there is no range all the time.

    To the rest of you:
    Tell me then I'm fighting with casual cheaters then. But I'll may put up a video, just to see that how OP they are.
    It's quite ridiculous that some just cries on these forums and they're "the voice of the players", lmao.
    Try that pewpew and see how you FAIL. But NO EXCUSES please.

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RoyalPredator.9163 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    You're running LB ranger and you can't deal with downstate necro life syphon?
    I don't understand.

    And what "tryhards" have to do with any of this? By definition(?), tryhards would pick the best, most efficient way to win the fights.

    Well, tryhard is wrong word then. I mean, those who keep trying and trying and die until swaps to a "nice" META char and Win.
    But yes, I have like 19k HP, and they syphon as hell. I'm ofc mostly berserk but have some survability up. They're Insane... Try with Ranger.
    AND it's LB/GS. Downed with GS, there is no range all the time.

    To the rest of you:
    Tell me then I'm fighting with casual cheaters then. But I'll may put up a video, just to see that how OP they are.
    It's quite ridiculous that some just cries on these forums and they're "the voice of the players", lmao.
    Try that pewpew and see how you FAIL. But NO EXCUSES please.

    Optimized Builds vs Non-Optimized Build. Optimized wins...news at 11. This is the same regardless of profession. The video will not help your cause.

  • Omg... We're talking about optimized builds, the best Rangers can do. Even if it's not THE Meta.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RoyalPredator.9163 said:
    Omg... We're talking about optimized builds, the best Rangers can do. Even if it's not THE Meta

    why you think that the build optimization is good thing ? people and now can use any build on wvw. Classes should be different, otherwise there is no any point have more than one class.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2020

    Now that I've been playing more... giving this a go.

    • I main Rev with a side of warrior and ranger(Core ranger, ewww soulbeast)
    • Revenant feels ok-ish, I mean it sure doesn't feel the best and honestly I feel like we need more core weapons. We need more ranged options and melee options in core the more you ignore it and the more you NERF OUR WEAPONS the more obvious it becomes. Axe sucks, Shield sucks, sword is really it and it honestly is ok. Its not the best but its ok, I dislike what you did to staff and I Dislike how ALL CC's don't do damage. So why not just remove them entirly? I mean clearly you DONT want them to be used, you DONT want people to think and just roll their keyboard and auto-attack predominantly. Revenant is ONLY it feels like strong for power when Impossible odds is proccing and your AAing. I mean its solid, Its still fun and you CAN MAKE IT WORK. But when you innevitably nerf condi (We know its gonna come soon.) What then? What are we supposed to do because I know you're just gonna nerf the condi weapon/s . You just need to do some serious reworks to these legends/traitlines in the spirit of CURRENT guild wars 2 heck Id say you need to do that to more than just rev.... but core rev needs work. (Herald and Ren seem fine, their problems are also linked to core. Fix core and you fix around 90% of the issues with the class.)
    • Warrior: GIVE IT CC DAMAGE BACK DANG IT! WHY DOES THIS NEED TO BE SAID!!!!! Warriors are predominantly physical combatants, a lot of them have to get close because their ranged weapons are laughable. Like seriously warrior ranged? Psh. But Ranger melee yeeeeeea boi thats the good stuff. A RANGER CAN BE BETTER IN MELEE WITH THE SAME STATS AS A WARRIOR, BOTH COULD ATTACK AND THE RANGER WOULD BE THE BIGGER THREAT!? (Soulbeast) What even IS THIS. A warrior is someone you SHOULDN'T want to get in melee range of, because they will do what hulk did to loki. Guardians are even better at melee, heck Im sure everyone right now is better now don't get me wrong I love my warrior. And I still make it work. But It feels a Billion times more challenging to fight people of equal skill, and a lot of the time it feels like they just have more tools than I do. (Why does full counter do no damage? That is the WHOLE POINT OF SPELLBREAKER?!)
    • Core ranger needs love. No seriously it does. Core is in a ok-ish borderline poopy place where soul-beast and druid FAR outclass it. Honestly I thought you said E-specs were ALTERNATIVES not that they are necessary for your class to function at tip-top. I am not the best player, nor do I claim to be in that category of player or even close to it but im ok. I haven't touched my ranger since PoF because I loathed soul-beast and it once had become my main because I like HAVING A PET. And all you've done is make it worse, and worse and punished me time and again for liking the idea of an animal companion. All the core pets need a rework, all of them need to be fixed and brought up to date with Expansion pets and this is something that should take priority. Stop dinking with core ranger, when a lot of the issue comes from soul-beast and druid... Druid shouldn't have a Perma-root build but it does. Soul-beast shoudn't be the go to for anyone not wanting to be a druid, sure I play core and I make it work and I Can get it to work as could anyone determined enough to make their class work the way THEY want to play. Which you sold the game as.

    Honestly I feel like ALL of the core classes need to be reworked, and remade in the spirit of MODERN day guild wars 2. Why? Well a lot of them have outdated mechanics and weapons. (Necro staff/daggers, nuff said.) And some E-spec weapons and so on even have fallen behind, You need to consolidate and ensure all of modern guild wars 2 is within the aspects of the game going forward. You need to essentially touch up the core product, because sitting there piling on all this extra within the E-specs only takes away from the core game and the core classes. Rev, Ele and engie all need more core weapons this is something you gotta do. All of those classes feel horribly behind, and under-equipped compared to the others. Sure Rev and Ele both have ways to make sure they have more utilities, but why does that matter when aspects of those classes have been abandoned and stripped down to negligible levels? It doesn't. Stop making excuses and get it done.... Im tired of sitting here wondering what could POSSIBLE be going through the balance teams mind when they make X change.

    Also... clearly there is class bias, the dev's must have favorites. Because the only classes/specs that seem to be untouched.... well you can fill out the rest.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Now that I've been playing more... giving this a go.

    • I main Rev with a side of warrior and ranger(Core ranger, ewww soulbeast)
      >! * Revenant feels ok-ish, I mean it sure doesn't feel the best and honestly I feel like we need more core weapons. We need more ranged options and melee options in core the more you ignore it and the more you NERF OUR WEAPONS the more obvious it becomes. Axe sucks, Shield sucks, sword is really it and it honestly is ok. Its not the best but its ok, I dislike what you did to staff and I Dislike how ALL CC's don't do damage. So why not just remove them entirly? I mean clearly you DONT want them to be used, you DONT want people to think and just roll their keyboard and auto-attack predominantly. Revenant is ONLY it feels like strong for power when Impossible odds is proccing and your AAing. I mean its solid, Its still fun and you CAN MAKE IT WORK. But when you innevitably nerf condi (We know its gonna come soon.) What then? What are we supposed to do because I know you're just gonna nerf the condi weapon/s . You just need to do some serious reworks to these legends/traitlines in the spirit of CURRENT guild wars 2 heck Id say you need to do that to more than just rev.... but core rev needs work. (Herald and Ren seem fine, their problems are also linked to core. Fix core and you fix around 90% of the issues with the class.)
      >! * Warrior: GIVE IT CC DAMAGE BACK DANG IT! WHY DOES THIS NEED TO BE SAID!!!!! Warriors are predominantly physical combatants, a lot of them have to get close because their ranged weapons are laughable. Like seriously warrior ranged? Psh. But Ranger melee yeeeeeea boi thats the good stuff. A RANGER CAN BE BETTER IN MELEE WITH THE SAME STATS AS A WARRIOR, BOTH COULD ATTACK AND THE RANGER WOULD BE THE BIGGER THREAT!? (Soulbeast) What even IS THIS. A warrior is someone you SHOULDN'T want to get in melee range of, because they will do what hulk did to loki. Guardians are even better at melee, heck Im sure everyone right now is better now don't get me wrong I love my warrior. And I still make it work. But It feels a Billion times more challenging to fight people of equal skill, and a lot of the time it feels like they just have more tools than I do. (Why does full counter do no damage? That is the WHOLE POINT OF SPELLBREAKER?!)
      >! * Core ranger needs love. No seriously it does. Core is in a ok-ish borderline poopy place where soul-beast and druid FAR outclass it. Honestly I thought you said E-specs were ALTERNATIVES not that they are necessary for your class to function at tip-top. I am not the best player, nor do I claim to be in that category of player or even close to it but im ok. I haven't touched my ranger since PoF because I loathed soul-beast and it once had become my main because I like HAVING A PET. And all you've done is make it worse, and worse and punished me time and again for liking the idea of an animal companion. All the core pets need a rework, all of them need to be fixed and brought up to date with Expansion pets and this is something that should take priority. Stop dinking with core ranger, when a lot of the issue comes from soul-beast and druid... Druid shouldn't have a Perma-root build but it does. Soul-beast shoudn't be the go to for anyone not wanting to be a druid, sure I play core and I make it work and I Can get it to work as could anyone determined enough to make their class work the way THEY want to play. Which you sold the game as.

    Honestly I feel like ALL of the core classes need to be reworked, and remade in the spirit of MODERN day guild wars 2. Why? Well a lot of them have outdated mechanics and weapons. (Necro staff/daggers, nuff said.) And some E-spec weapons and so on even have fallen behind, You need to consolidate and ensure all of modern guild wars 2 is within the aspects of the game going forward. You need to essentially touch up the core product, because sitting there piling on all this extra within the E-specs only takes away from the core game and the core classes. Rev, Ele and engie all need more core weapons this is something you gotta do. All of those classes feel horribly behind, and under-equipped compared to the others. Sure Rev and Ele both have ways to make sure they have more utilities, but why does that matter when aspects of those classes have been abandoned and stripped down to negligible levels? It doesn't. Stop making excuses and get it done.... Im tired of sitting here wondering what could POSSIBLE be going through the balance teams mind when they make X change.

    Also... clearly there is class bias, the dev's must have favorites. Because the only classes/specs that seem to be untouched.... well you can fill out the rest.

    Cmc mains warrior these days and warriors well.......not so great so a dev maiming a class really doesn't mean much, especially if they've made it known what class they play.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 dev bias can show in multitude of ways, for example warrior main dev might keep warrior bad to not look biased in the first place
    and in the end rev is class played by the best and best tend to win the monthly, moreover grenade holo is the type of innovation we like to see in players

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Psycoprophet.8107 dev bias can show in multitude of ways, for example warrior main dev might keep warrior bad to not look biased in the first place
    and in the end rev is class played by the best and best tend to win the monthly, moreover grenade holo is the type of innovation we like to see in players

    Lol ur right, my last statement about if a dev has admitted to playing a class was kinda a point towards what u said but I was forgetting that it still falls under bias. So what I said above about dev bias not being a thing is definitely wrong, was a short sighted comment on my part.

  • @lare.5129 said:

    @RoyalPredator.9163 said:
    Omg... We're talking about optimized builds, the best Rangers can do. Even if it's not THE Meta

    why you think that the build optimization is good thing ? people and now can use any build on wvw. Classes should be different, otherwise there is no any point have more than one class.

    Seems like you're clearly NOT playing the game... Or your server may be so rubbish on WWW pairing that you don't get skilled players as enemies?

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RoyalPredator.9163 said:
    Seems like you're clearly NOT playing the game... Or your server may be so rubbish on WWW pairing that you don't get skilled players as enemies?

    I am play on Blacktide , currently 27 position from 27 places. Our rating 912.516 , leader - 1754.9202
    I am play and have fun. Don't see any point do second job from game.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Now that I've been playing more... giving this a go.

    • I main Rev with a side of warrior and ranger(Core ranger, ewww soulbeast)
      >! * Revenant feels ok-ish, I mean it sure doesn't feel the best and honestly I feel like we need more core weapons. We need more ranged options and melee options in core the more you ignore it and the more you NERF OUR WEAPONS the more obvious it becomes. Axe sucks, Shield sucks, sword is really it and it honestly is ok. Its not the best but its ok, I dislike what you did to staff and I Dislike how ALL CC's don't do damage. So why not just remove them entirly? I mean clearly you DONT want them to be used, you DONT want people to think and just roll their keyboard and auto-attack predominantly. Revenant is ONLY it feels like strong for power when Impossible odds is proccing and your AAing. I mean its solid, Its still fun and you CAN MAKE IT WORK. But when you innevitably nerf condi (We know its gonna come soon.) What then? What are we supposed to do because I know you're just gonna nerf the condi weapon/s . You just need to do some serious reworks to these legends/traitlines in the spirit of CURRENT guild wars 2 heck Id say you need to do that to more than just rev.... but core rev needs work. (Herald and Ren seem fine, their problems are also linked to core. Fix core and you fix around 90% of the issues with the class.)
      >! * Warrior: GIVE IT CC DAMAGE BACK DANG IT! WHY DOES THIS NEED TO BE SAID!!!!! Warriors are predominantly physical combatants, a lot of them have to get close because their ranged weapons are laughable. Like seriously warrior ranged? Psh. But Ranger melee yeeeeeea boi thats the good stuff. A RANGER CAN BE BETTER IN MELEE WITH THE SAME STATS AS A WARRIOR, BOTH COULD ATTACK AND THE RANGER WOULD BE THE BIGGER THREAT!? (Soulbeast) What even IS THIS. A warrior is someone you SHOULDN'T want to get in melee range of, because they will do what hulk did to loki. Guardians are even better at melee, heck Im sure everyone right now is better now don't get me wrong I love my warrior. And I still make it work. But It feels a Billion times more challenging to fight people of equal skill, and a lot of the time it feels like they just have more tools than I do. (Why does full counter do no damage? That is the WHOLE POINT OF SPELLBREAKER?!)
      >! * Core ranger needs love. No seriously it does. Core is in a ok-ish borderline poopy place where soul-beast and druid FAR outclass it. Honestly I thought you said E-specs were ALTERNATIVES not that they are necessary for your class to function at tip-top. I am not the best player, nor do I claim to be in that category of player or even close to it but im ok. I haven't touched my ranger since PoF because I loathed soul-beast and it once had become my main because I like HAVING A PET. And all you've done is make it worse, and worse and punished me time and again for liking the idea of an animal companion. All the core pets need a rework, all of them need to be fixed and brought up to date with Expansion pets and this is something that should take priority. Stop dinking with core ranger, when a lot of the issue comes from soul-beast and druid... Druid shouldn't have a Perma-root build but it does. Soul-beast shoudn't be the go to for anyone not wanting to be a druid, sure I play core and I make it work and I Can get it to work as could anyone determined enough to make their class work the way THEY want to play. Which you sold the game as.

    Honestly I feel like ALL of the core classes need to be reworked, and remade in the spirit of MODERN day guild wars 2. Why? Well a lot of them have outdated mechanics and weapons. (Necro staff/daggers, nuff said.) And some E-spec weapons and so on even have fallen behind, You need to consolidate and ensure all of modern guild wars 2 is within the aspects of the game going forward. You need to essentially touch up the core product, because sitting there piling on all this extra within the E-specs only takes away from the core game and the core classes. Rev, Ele and engie all need more core weapons this is something you gotta do. All of those classes feel horribly behind, and under-equipped compared to the others. Sure Rev and Ele both have ways to make sure they have more utilities, but why does that matter when aspects of those classes have been abandoned and stripped down to negligible levels? It doesn't. Stop making excuses and get it done.... Im tired of sitting here wondering what could POSSIBLE be going through the balance teams mind when they make X change.

    Also... clearly there is class bias, the dev's must have favorites. Because the only classes/specs that seem to be untouched.... well you can fill out the rest.

    Cmc mains warrior these days and warriors well.......not so great so a dev maiming a class really doesn't mean much, especially if they've made it known what class they play.

    Maybe he shouldn't be in charge of balance then? Clearly he is either not good at the game, or isn't playing the same game.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Now that I've been playing more... giving this a go.

    • I main Rev with a side of warrior and ranger(Core ranger, ewww soulbeast)
      >! * Revenant feels ok-ish, I mean it sure doesn't feel the best and honestly I feel like we need more core weapons. We need more ranged options and melee options in core the more you ignore it and the more you NERF OUR WEAPONS the more obvious it becomes. Axe sucks, Shield sucks, sword is really it and it honestly is ok. Its not the best but its ok, I dislike what you did to staff and I Dislike how ALL CC's don't do damage. So why not just remove them entirly? I mean clearly you DONT want them to be used, you DONT want people to think and just roll their keyboard and auto-attack predominantly. Revenant is ONLY it feels like strong for power when Impossible odds is proccing and your AAing. I mean its solid, Its still fun and you CAN MAKE IT WORK. But when you innevitably nerf condi (We know its gonna come soon.) What then? What are we supposed to do because I know you're just gonna nerf the condi weapon/s . You just need to do some serious reworks to these legends/traitlines in the spirit of CURRENT guild wars 2 heck Id say you need to do that to more than just rev.... but core rev needs work. (Herald and Ren seem fine, their problems are also linked to core. Fix core and you fix around 90% of the issues with the class.)
      >! * Warrior: GIVE IT CC DAMAGE BACK DANG IT! WHY DOES THIS NEED TO BE SAID!!!!! Warriors are predominantly physical combatants, a lot of them have to get close because their ranged weapons are laughable. Like seriously warrior ranged? Psh. But Ranger melee yeeeeeea boi thats the good stuff. A RANGER CAN BE BETTER IN MELEE WITH THE SAME STATS AS A WARRIOR, BOTH COULD ATTACK AND THE RANGER WOULD BE THE BIGGER THREAT!? (Soulbeast) What even IS THIS. A warrior is someone you SHOULDN'T want to get in melee range of, because they will do what hulk did to loki. Guardians are even better at melee, heck Im sure everyone right now is better now don't get me wrong I love my warrior. And I still make it work. But It feels a Billion times more challenging to fight people of equal skill, and a lot of the time it feels like they just have more tools than I do. (Why does full counter do no damage? That is the WHOLE POINT OF SPELLBREAKER?!)
      >! * Core ranger needs love. No seriously it does. Core is in a ok-ish borderline poopy place where soul-beast and druid FAR outclass it. Honestly I thought you said E-specs were ALTERNATIVES not that they are necessary for your class to function at tip-top. I am not the best player, nor do I claim to be in that category of player or even close to it but im ok. I haven't touched my ranger since PoF because I loathed soul-beast and it once had become my main because I like HAVING A PET. And all you've done is make it worse, and worse and punished me time and again for liking the idea of an animal companion. All the core pets need a rework, all of them need to be fixed and brought up to date with Expansion pets and this is something that should take priority. Stop dinking with core ranger, when a lot of the issue comes from soul-beast and druid... Druid shouldn't have a Perma-root build but it does. Soul-beast shoudn't be the go to for anyone not wanting to be a druid, sure I play core and I make it work and I Can get it to work as could anyone determined enough to make their class work the way THEY want to play. Which you sold the game as.

    Honestly I feel like ALL of the core classes need to be reworked, and remade in the spirit of MODERN day guild wars 2. Why? Well a lot of them have outdated mechanics and weapons. (Necro staff/daggers, nuff said.) And some E-spec weapons and so on even have fallen behind, You need to consolidate and ensure all of modern guild wars 2 is within the aspects of the game going forward. You need to essentially touch up the core product, because sitting there piling on all this extra within the E-specs only takes away from the core game and the core classes. Rev, Ele and engie all need more core weapons this is something you gotta do. All of those classes feel horribly behind, and under-equipped compared to the others. Sure Rev and Ele both have ways to make sure they have more utilities, but why does that matter when aspects of those classes have been abandoned and stripped down to negligible levels? It doesn't. Stop making excuses and get it done.... Im tired of sitting here wondering what could POSSIBLE be going through the balance teams mind when they make X change.

    Also... clearly there is class bias, the dev's must have favorites. Because the only classes/specs that seem to be untouched.... well you can fill out the rest.

    Cmc mains warrior these days and warriors well.......not so great so a dev maiming a class really doesn't mean much, especially if they've made it known what class they play.

    Maybe he shouldn't be in charge of balance then? Clearly he is either not good at the game, or isn't playing the same game.

    If balance was about enabling highest levels of play from highly capable players ... you might have a point. In this case, that's not true.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Now that I've been playing more... giving this a go.

    • I main Rev with a side of warrior and ranger(Core ranger, ewww soulbeast)
      >! * Revenant feels ok-ish, I mean it sure doesn't feel the best and honestly I feel like we need more core weapons. We need more ranged options and melee options in core the more you ignore it and the more you NERF OUR WEAPONS the more obvious it becomes. Axe sucks, Shield sucks, sword is really it and it honestly is ok. Its not the best but its ok, I dislike what you did to staff and I Dislike how ALL CC's don't do damage. So why not just remove them entirly? I mean clearly you DONT want them to be used, you DONT want people to think and just roll their keyboard and auto-attack predominantly. Revenant is ONLY it feels like strong for power when Impossible odds is proccing and your AAing. I mean its solid, Its still fun and you CAN MAKE IT WORK. But when you innevitably nerf condi (We know its gonna come soon.) What then? What are we supposed to do because I know you're just gonna nerf the condi weapon/s . You just need to do some serious reworks to these legends/traitlines in the spirit of CURRENT guild wars 2 heck Id say you need to do that to more than just rev.... but core rev needs work. (Herald and Ren seem fine, their problems are also linked to core. Fix core and you fix around 90% of the issues with the class.)
      >! * Warrior: GIVE IT CC DAMAGE BACK DANG IT! WHY DOES THIS NEED TO BE SAID!!!!! Warriors are predominantly physical combatants, a lot of them have to get close because their ranged weapons are laughable. Like seriously warrior ranged? Psh. But Ranger melee yeeeeeea boi thats the good stuff. A RANGER CAN BE BETTER IN MELEE WITH THE SAME STATS AS A WARRIOR, BOTH COULD ATTACK AND THE RANGER WOULD BE THE BIGGER THREAT!? (Soulbeast) What even IS THIS. A warrior is someone you SHOULDN'T want to get in melee range of, because they will do what hulk did to loki. Guardians are even better at melee, heck Im sure everyone right now is better now don't get me wrong I love my warrior. And I still make it work. But It feels a Billion times more challenging to fight people of equal skill, and a lot of the time it feels like they just have more tools than I do. (Why does full counter do no damage? That is the WHOLE POINT OF SPELLBREAKER?!)
      >! * Core ranger needs love. No seriously it does. Core is in a ok-ish borderline poopy place where soul-beast and druid FAR outclass it. Honestly I thought you said E-specs were ALTERNATIVES not that they are necessary for your class to function at tip-top. I am not the best player, nor do I claim to be in that category of player or even close to it but im ok. I haven't touched my ranger since PoF because I loathed soul-beast and it once had become my main because I like HAVING A PET. And all you've done is make it worse, and worse and punished me time and again for liking the idea of an animal companion. All the core pets need a rework, all of them need to be fixed and brought up to date with Expansion pets and this is something that should take priority. Stop dinking with core ranger, when a lot of the issue comes from soul-beast and druid... Druid shouldn't have a Perma-root build but it does. Soul-beast shoudn't be the go to for anyone not wanting to be a druid, sure I play core and I make it work and I Can get it to work as could anyone determined enough to make their class work the way THEY want to play. Which you sold the game as.

    Honestly I feel like ALL of the core classes need to be reworked, and remade in the spirit of MODERN day guild wars 2. Why? Well a lot of them have outdated mechanics and weapons. (Necro staff/daggers, nuff said.) And some E-spec weapons and so on even have fallen behind, You need to consolidate and ensure all of modern guild wars 2 is within the aspects of the game going forward. You need to essentially touch up the core product, because sitting there piling on all this extra within the E-specs only takes away from the core game and the core classes. Rev, Ele and engie all need more core weapons this is something you gotta do. All of those classes feel horribly behind, and under-equipped compared to the others. Sure Rev and Ele both have ways to make sure they have more utilities, but why does that matter when aspects of those classes have been abandoned and stripped down to negligible levels? It doesn't. Stop making excuses and get it done.... Im tired of sitting here wondering what could POSSIBLE be going through the balance teams mind when they make X change.

    Also... clearly there is class bias, the dev's must have favorites. Because the only classes/specs that seem to be untouched.... well you can fill out the rest.

    Cmc mains warrior these days and warriors well.......not so great so a dev maiming a class really doesn't mean much, especially if they've made it known what class they play.

    Maybe he shouldn't be in charge of balance then? Clearly he is either not good at the game, or isn't playing the same game.

    If balance was about enabling highest levels of play from highly capable players ... you might have a point. In this case, that's not true.

    I never claimed to be highly skilled, I never claimed that is what is required. But the balance we have now does not equal fairer play for those who are not in that level, in-fact some classes feel and are downright garbo right now.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Now that I've been playing more... giving this a go.

    • I main Rev with a side of warrior and ranger(Core ranger, ewww soulbeast)
      >! * Revenant feels ok-ish, I mean it sure doesn't feel the best and honestly I feel like we need more core weapons. We need more ranged options and melee options in core the more you ignore it and the more you NERF OUR WEAPONS the more obvious it becomes. Axe sucks, Shield sucks, sword is really it and it honestly is ok. Its not the best but its ok, I dislike what you did to staff and I Dislike how ALL CC's don't do damage. So why not just remove them entirly? I mean clearly you DONT want them to be used, you DONT want people to think and just roll their keyboard and auto-attack predominantly. Revenant is ONLY it feels like strong for power when Impossible odds is proccing and your AAing. I mean its solid, Its still fun and you CAN MAKE IT WORK. But when you innevitably nerf condi (We know its gonna come soon.) What then? What are we supposed to do because I know you're just gonna nerf the condi weapon/s . You just need to do some serious reworks to these legends/traitlines in the spirit of CURRENT guild wars 2 heck Id say you need to do that to more than just rev.... but core rev needs work. (Herald and Ren seem fine, their problems are also linked to core. Fix core and you fix around 90% of the issues with the class.)
      >! * Warrior: GIVE IT CC DAMAGE BACK DANG IT! WHY DOES THIS NEED TO BE SAID!!!!! Warriors are predominantly physical combatants, a lot of them have to get close because their ranged weapons are laughable. Like seriously warrior ranged? Psh. But Ranger melee yeeeeeea boi thats the good stuff. A RANGER CAN BE BETTER IN MELEE WITH THE SAME STATS AS A WARRIOR, BOTH COULD ATTACK AND THE RANGER WOULD BE THE BIGGER THREAT!? (Soulbeast) What even IS THIS. A warrior is someone you SHOULDN'T want to get in melee range of, because they will do what hulk did to loki. Guardians are even better at melee, heck Im sure everyone right now is better now don't get me wrong I love my warrior. And I still make it work. But It feels a Billion times more challenging to fight people of equal skill, and a lot of the time it feels like they just have more tools than I do. (Why does full counter do no damage? That is the WHOLE POINT OF SPELLBREAKER?!)
      >! * Core ranger needs love. No seriously it does. Core is in a ok-ish borderline poopy place where soul-beast and druid FAR outclass it. Honestly I thought you said E-specs were ALTERNATIVES not that they are necessary for your class to function at tip-top. I am not the best player, nor do I claim to be in that category of player or even close to it but im ok. I haven't touched my ranger since PoF because I loathed soul-beast and it once had become my main because I like HAVING A PET. And all you've done is make it worse, and worse and punished me time and again for liking the idea of an animal companion. All the core pets need a rework, all of them need to be fixed and brought up to date with Expansion pets and this is something that should take priority. Stop dinking with core ranger, when a lot of the issue comes from soul-beast and druid... Druid shouldn't have a Perma-root build but it does. Soul-beast shoudn't be the go to for anyone not wanting to be a druid, sure I play core and I make it work and I Can get it to work as could anyone determined enough to make their class work the way THEY want to play. Which you sold the game as.

    Honestly I feel like ALL of the core classes need to be reworked, and remade in the spirit of MODERN day guild wars 2. Why? Well a lot of them have outdated mechanics and weapons. (Necro staff/daggers, nuff said.) And some E-spec weapons and so on even have fallen behind, You need to consolidate and ensure all of modern guild wars 2 is within the aspects of the game going forward. You need to essentially touch up the core product, because sitting there piling on all this extra within the E-specs only takes away from the core game and the core classes. Rev, Ele and engie all need more core weapons this is something you gotta do. All of those classes feel horribly behind, and under-equipped compared to the others. Sure Rev and Ele both have ways to make sure they have more utilities, but why does that matter when aspects of those classes have been abandoned and stripped down to negligible levels? It doesn't. Stop making excuses and get it done.... Im tired of sitting here wondering what could POSSIBLE be going through the balance teams mind when they make X change.

    Also... clearly there is class bias, the dev's must have favorites. Because the only classes/specs that seem to be untouched.... well you can fill out the rest.

    Cmc mains warrior these days and warriors well.......not so great so a dev maiming a class really doesn't mean much, especially if they've made it known what class they play.

    Maybe he shouldn't be in charge of balance then? Clearly he is either not good at the game, or isn't playing the same game.

    If balance was about enabling highest levels of play from highly capable players ... you might have a point. In this case, that's not true.

    I never claimed to be highly skilled, I never claimed that is what is required. But the balance we have now does not equal fairer play for those who are not in that level, in-fact some classes feel and are downright garbo right now.

    By the way you speak, it certainly sounds implied; accusing people of not playing the game, not being good at it or devs having class bias are all indicative of that. The fact is that the balance we have now is the balance we have always had .. it is YOU that don't understand how the game is balanced, not everyone who aren't playing the game, not being good and certainly not the devs that you accuse of class bias.

    If you have convinced yourself that the game is balanced to give 'fair play' to classes ... be ready to be confused permanently.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Now that I've been playing more... giving this a go.

    • I main Rev with a side of warrior and ranger(Core ranger, ewww soulbeast)
      >! * Revenant feels ok-ish, I mean it sure doesn't feel the best and honestly I feel like we need more core weapons. We need more ranged options and melee options in core the more you ignore it and the more you NERF OUR WEAPONS the more obvious it becomes. Axe sucks, Shield sucks, sword is really it and it honestly is ok. Its not the best but its ok, I dislike what you did to staff and I Dislike how ALL CC's don't do damage. So why not just remove them entirly? I mean clearly you DONT want them to be used, you DONT want people to think and just roll their keyboard and auto-attack predominantly. Revenant is ONLY it feels like strong for power when Impossible odds is proccing and your AAing. I mean its solid, Its still fun and you CAN MAKE IT WORK. But when you innevitably nerf condi (We know its gonna come soon.) What then? What are we supposed to do because I know you're just gonna nerf the condi weapon/s . You just need to do some serious reworks to these legends/traitlines in the spirit of CURRENT guild wars 2 heck Id say you need to do that to more than just rev.... but core rev needs work. (Herald and Ren seem fine, their problems are also linked to core. Fix core and you fix around 90% of the issues with the class.)
      >! * Warrior: GIVE IT CC DAMAGE BACK DANG IT! WHY DOES THIS NEED TO BE SAID!!!!! Warriors are predominantly physical combatants, a lot of them have to get close because their ranged weapons are laughable. Like seriously warrior ranged? Psh. But Ranger melee yeeeeeea boi thats the good stuff. A RANGER CAN BE BETTER IN MELEE WITH THE SAME STATS AS A WARRIOR, BOTH COULD ATTACK AND THE RANGER WOULD BE THE BIGGER THREAT!? (Soulbeast) What even IS THIS. A warrior is someone you SHOULDN'T want to get in melee range of, because they will do what hulk did to loki. Guardians are even better at melee, heck Im sure everyone right now is better now don't get me wrong I love my warrior. And I still make it work. But It feels a Billion times more challenging to fight people of equal skill, and a lot of the time it feels like they just have more tools than I do. (Why does full counter do no damage? That is the WHOLE POINT OF SPELLBREAKER?!)
      >! * Core ranger needs love. No seriously it does. Core is in a ok-ish borderline poopy place where soul-beast and druid FAR outclass it. Honestly I thought you said E-specs were ALTERNATIVES not that they are necessary for your class to function at tip-top. I am not the best player, nor do I claim to be in that category of player or even close to it but im ok. I haven't touched my ranger since PoF because I loathed soul-beast and it once had become my main because I like HAVING A PET. And all you've done is make it worse, and worse and punished me time and again for liking the idea of an animal companion. All the core pets need a rework, all of them need to be fixed and brought up to date with Expansion pets and this is something that should take priority. Stop dinking with core ranger, when a lot of the issue comes from soul-beast and druid... Druid shouldn't have a Perma-root build but it does. Soul-beast shoudn't be the go to for anyone not wanting to be a druid, sure I play core and I make it work and I Can get it to work as could anyone determined enough to make their class work the way THEY want to play. Which you sold the game as.

    Honestly I feel like ALL of the core classes need to be reworked, and remade in the spirit of MODERN day guild wars 2. Why? Well a lot of them have outdated mechanics and weapons. (Necro staff/daggers, nuff said.) And some E-spec weapons and so on even have fallen behind, You need to consolidate and ensure all of modern guild wars 2 is within the aspects of the game going forward. You need to essentially touch up the core product, because sitting there piling on all this extra within the E-specs only takes away from the core game and the core classes. Rev, Ele and engie all need more core weapons this is something you gotta do. All of those classes feel horribly behind, and under-equipped compared to the others. Sure Rev and Ele both have ways to make sure they have more utilities, but why does that matter when aspects of those classes have been abandoned and stripped down to negligible levels? It doesn't. Stop making excuses and get it done.... Im tired of sitting here wondering what could POSSIBLE be going through the balance teams mind when they make X change.

    Also... clearly there is class bias, the dev's must have favorites. Because the only classes/specs that seem to be untouched.... well you can fill out the rest.

    Cmc mains warrior these days and warriors well.......not so great so a dev maiming a class really doesn't mean much, especially if they've made it known what class they play.

    Maybe he shouldn't be in charge of balance then? Clearly he is either not good at the game, or isn't playing the same game.

    If balance was about enabling highest levels of play from highly capable players ... you might have a point. In this case, that's not true.

    I never claimed to be highly skilled, I never claimed that is what is required. But the balance we have now does not equal fairer play for those who are not in that level, in-fact some classes feel and are downright garbo right now.

    By the way you speak, it certainly sounds implied; accusing people of not playing the game, not being good at it or devs having class bias are all indicative of that. The fact is that the balance we have now is the balance we have always had .. it is YOU that don't understand how the game is balanced, not everyone who aren't playing the game, not being good and certainly not the devs that you accuse of class bias.

    I mean I have proof for the bias, lmfao. You can sit here and "W.K" (I cant say the word because I guess its offensive.) I dont understand how the game is balanced because the game is NOT balanced at all. I mean but im sure you play one of the classes who didn't get neutered and left for dead, stripped of everything that made them strong and left to kind of just float along in the breeze. Two of the classes I play and have played as my mains are kinda meh right now, warrior especially is in a spot where yea you can make it work. But you have to put much more effort into making it work than anything else because without the damage on its CC's it lacks the pressure, and its sustain just isn't enough to win the day. But the community will riot if its buffed at all~ Likely A-net would of done us all a solid by just removing the classes that were problematic in their eyes than allowing them to exist... the illusion of choice is not choice. Its just them dangling the idea in your face and reminding you that "Oh you thought this worked, silly player... look I got your nose!"

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Now that I've been playing more... giving this a go.

    • I main Rev with a side of warrior and ranger(Core ranger, ewww soulbeast)
      >! * Revenant feels ok-ish, I mean it sure doesn't feel the best and honestly I feel like we need more core weapons. We need more ranged options and melee options in core the more you ignore it and the more you NERF OUR WEAPONS the more obvious it becomes. Axe sucks, Shield sucks, sword is really it and it honestly is ok. Its not the best but its ok, I dislike what you did to staff and I Dislike how ALL CC's don't do damage. So why not just remove them entirly? I mean clearly you DONT want them to be used, you DONT want people to think and just roll their keyboard and auto-attack predominantly. Revenant is ONLY it feels like strong for power when Impossible odds is proccing and your AAing. I mean its solid, Its still fun and you CAN MAKE IT WORK. But when you innevitably nerf condi (We know its gonna come soon.) What then? What are we supposed to do because I know you're just gonna nerf the condi weapon/s . You just need to do some serious reworks to these legends/traitlines in the spirit of CURRENT guild wars 2 heck Id say you need to do that to more than just rev.... but core rev needs work. (Herald and Ren seem fine, their problems are also linked to core. Fix core and you fix around 90% of the issues with the class.)
      >! * Warrior: GIVE IT CC DAMAGE BACK DANG IT! WHY DOES THIS NEED TO BE SAID!!!!! Warriors are predominantly physical combatants, a lot of them have to get close because their ranged weapons are laughable. Like seriously warrior ranged? Psh. But Ranger melee yeeeeeea boi thats the good stuff. A RANGER CAN BE BETTER IN MELEE WITH THE SAME STATS AS A WARRIOR, BOTH COULD ATTACK AND THE RANGER WOULD BE THE BIGGER THREAT!? (Soulbeast) What even IS THIS. A warrior is someone you SHOULDN'T want to get in melee range of, because they will do what hulk did to loki. Guardians are even better at melee, heck Im sure everyone right now is better now don't get me wrong I love my warrior. And I still make it work. But It feels a Billion times more challenging to fight people of equal skill, and a lot of the time it feels like they just have more tools than I do. (Why does full counter do no damage? That is the WHOLE POINT OF SPELLBREAKER?!)
      >! * Core ranger needs love. No seriously it does. Core is in a ok-ish borderline poopy place where soul-beast and druid FAR outclass it. Honestly I thought you said E-specs were ALTERNATIVES not that they are necessary for your class to function at tip-top. I am not the best player, nor do I claim to be in that category of player or even close to it but im ok. I haven't touched my ranger since PoF because I loathed soul-beast and it once had become my main because I like HAVING A PET. And all you've done is make it worse, and worse and punished me time and again for liking the idea of an animal companion. All the core pets need a rework, all of them need to be fixed and brought up to date with Expansion pets and this is something that should take priority. Stop dinking with core ranger, when a lot of the issue comes from soul-beast and druid... Druid shouldn't have a Perma-root build but it does. Soul-beast shoudn't be the go to for anyone not wanting to be a druid, sure I play core and I make it work and I Can get it to work as could anyone determined enough to make their class work the way THEY want to play. Which you sold the game as.

    Honestly I feel like ALL of the core classes need to be reworked, and remade in the spirit of MODERN day guild wars 2. Why? Well a lot of them have outdated mechanics and weapons. (Necro staff/daggers, nuff said.) And some E-spec weapons and so on even have fallen behind, You need to consolidate and ensure all of modern guild wars 2 is within the aspects of the game going forward. You need to essentially touch up the core product, because sitting there piling on all this extra within the E-specs only takes away from the core game and the core classes. Rev, Ele and engie all need more core weapons this is something you gotta do. All of those classes feel horribly behind, and under-equipped compared to the others. Sure Rev and Ele both have ways to make sure they have more utilities, but why does that matter when aspects of those classes have been abandoned and stripped down to negligible levels? It doesn't. Stop making excuses and get it done.... Im tired of sitting here wondering what could POSSIBLE be going through the balance teams mind when they make X change.

    Also... clearly there is class bias, the dev's must have favorites. Because the only classes/specs that seem to be untouched.... well you can fill out the rest.

    Cmc mains warrior these days and warriors well.......not so great so a dev maiming a class really doesn't mean much, especially if they've made it known what class they play.

    Maybe he shouldn't be in charge of balance then? Clearly he is either not good at the game, or isn't playing the same game.

    If balance was about enabling highest levels of play from highly capable players ... you might have a point. In this case, that's not true.

    I never claimed to be highly skilled, I never claimed that is what is required. But the balance we have now does not equal fairer play for those who are not in that level, in-fact some classes feel and are downright garbo right now.

    By the way you speak, it certainly sounds implied; accusing people of not playing the game, not being good at it or devs having class bias are all indicative of that. The fact is that the balance we have now is the balance we have always had .. it is YOU that don't understand how the game is balanced, not everyone who aren't playing the game, not being good and certainly not the devs that you accuse of class bias.

    I mean I have proof for the bias, lmfao.

    OK ... that doesn't matter. LMFAO back at you.

    I dont understand how the game is balanced because the game is NOT balanced at all.

    ... and that this why you are always going to be confused ... just because it's not your version of balanced doesn't mean it isn't. Like ... you think you are the first person to notice this and complain about it? There is your LMFAO. You don't think a dev should be in charge of balance because he doesn't balance how you want? You realize how ridiculous that statement is right?

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Now that I've been playing more... giving this a go.

    • I main Rev with a side of warrior and ranger(Core ranger, ewww soulbeast)
      >! * Revenant feels ok-ish, I mean it sure doesn't feel the best and honestly I feel like we need more core weapons. We need more ranged options and melee options in core the more you ignore it and the more you NERF OUR WEAPONS the more obvious it becomes. Axe sucks, Shield sucks, sword is really it and it honestly is ok. Its not the best but its ok, I dislike what you did to staff and I Dislike how ALL CC's don't do damage. So why not just remove them entirly? I mean clearly you DONT want them to be used, you DONT want people to think and just roll their keyboard and auto-attack predominantly. Revenant is ONLY it feels like strong for power when Impossible odds is proccing and your AAing. I mean its solid, Its still fun and you CAN MAKE IT WORK. But when you innevitably nerf condi (We know its gonna come soon.) What then? What are we supposed to do because I know you're just gonna nerf the condi weapon/s . You just need to do some serious reworks to these legends/traitlines in the spirit of CURRENT guild wars 2 heck Id say you need to do that to more than just rev.... but core rev needs work. (Herald and Ren seem fine, their problems are also linked to core. Fix core and you fix around 90% of the issues with the class.)
      >! * Warrior: GIVE IT CC DAMAGE BACK DANG IT! WHY DOES THIS NEED TO BE SAID!!!!! Warriors are predominantly physical combatants, a lot of them have to get close because their ranged weapons are laughable. Like seriously warrior ranged? Psh. But Ranger melee yeeeeeea boi thats the good stuff. A RANGER CAN BE BETTER IN MELEE WITH THE SAME STATS AS A WARRIOR, BOTH COULD ATTACK AND THE RANGER WOULD BE THE BIGGER THREAT!? (Soulbeast) What even IS THIS. A warrior is someone you SHOULDN'T want to get in melee range of, because they will do what hulk did to loki. Guardians are even better at melee, heck Im sure everyone right now is better now don't get me wrong I love my warrior. And I still make it work. But It feels a Billion times more challenging to fight people of equal skill, and a lot of the time it feels like they just have more tools than I do. (Why does full counter do no damage? That is the WHOLE POINT OF SPELLBREAKER?!)
      >! * Core ranger needs love. No seriously it does. Core is in a ok-ish borderline poopy place where soul-beast and druid FAR outclass it. Honestly I thought you said E-specs were ALTERNATIVES not that they are necessary for your class to function at tip-top. I am not the best player, nor do I claim to be in that category of player or even close to it but im ok. I haven't touched my ranger since PoF because I loathed soul-beast and it once had become my main because I like HAVING A PET. And all you've done is make it worse, and worse and punished me time and again for liking the idea of an animal companion. All the core pets need a rework, all of them need to be fixed and brought up to date with Expansion pets and this is something that should take priority. Stop dinking with core ranger, when a lot of the issue comes from soul-beast and druid... Druid shouldn't have a Perma-root build but it does. Soul-beast shoudn't be the go to for anyone not wanting to be a druid, sure I play core and I make it work and I Can get it to work as could anyone determined enough to make their class work the way THEY want to play. Which you sold the game as.

    Honestly I feel like ALL of the core classes need to be reworked, and remade in the spirit of MODERN day guild wars 2. Why? Well a lot of them have outdated mechanics and weapons. (Necro staff/daggers, nuff said.) And some E-spec weapons and so on even have fallen behind, You need to consolidate and ensure all of modern guild wars 2 is within the aspects of the game going forward. You need to essentially touch up the core product, because sitting there piling on all this extra within the E-specs only takes away from the core game and the core classes. Rev, Ele and engie all need more core weapons this is something you gotta do. All of those classes feel horribly behind, and under-equipped compared to the others. Sure Rev and Ele both have ways to make sure they have more utilities, but why does that matter when aspects of those classes have been abandoned and stripped down to negligible levels? It doesn't. Stop making excuses and get it done.... Im tired of sitting here wondering what could POSSIBLE be going through the balance teams mind when they make X change.

    Also... clearly there is class bias, the dev's must have favorites. Because the only classes/specs that seem to be untouched.... well you can fill out the rest.

    Cmc mains warrior these days and warriors well.......not so great so a dev maiming a class really doesn't mean much, especially if they've made it known what class they play.

    Maybe he shouldn't be in charge of balance then? Clearly he is either not good at the game, or isn't playing the same game.

    If balance was about enabling highest levels of play from highly capable players ... you might have a point. In this case, that's not true.

    I never claimed to be highly skilled, I never claimed that is what is required. But the balance we have now does not equal fairer play for those who are not in that level, in-fact some classes feel and are downright garbo right now.

    By the way you speak, it certainly sounds implied; accusing people of not playing the game, not being good at it or devs having class bias are all indicative of that. The fact is that the balance we have now is the balance we have always had .. it is YOU that don't understand how the game is balanced, not everyone who aren't playing the game, not being good and certainly not the devs that you accuse of class bias.

    I mean I have proof for the bias, lmfao.

    OK ... that doesn't matter. LMFAO back at you.

    I dont understand how the game is balanced because the game is NOT balanced at all.

    ... and that this why you are always going to be confused ... just because it's not your version of balanced doesn't mean it isn't. Like ... you think you are the first person to notice this and complain about it? There is your LMFAO. You don't think a dev should be in charge of balance because he doesn't balance how you want? You realize how ridiculous that statement is right?

    If I botched my job like he has, Id be fired. Simple. Clearly you dont know how anything works, its not my version of balance (I could do his job in my sleep, ten times better and the game would be healthier for it if they'd not try to stand in my way.) Like Listen to the man talk and what he says, watch his game-play and tell me he is the one that should be heading any balance discussions? He can be on the team for sure like don't get it twisted his voice has weight and he represents "some" players, no doubt about it and thats fine. But im not confused at all. I merely find it disappointing and honestly a little baffling that someone can be allowed to completely botch class designs or even make decisions that go against a classes entire BASIC principle that were/are from the core up what its all about. But can leave and say other classes who have better tools, more sustain and more damage sources in a place of power while also claiming they are weak.

    He is not the best person for the job, You're not even backing up your argument. "You have proof, that doesn't matter at all in this argument despite it being applicable and damning because you can't have and shouldn't have bias when making blanket nerfs that will destroy X class but leave yours or others in a better place reeee!" Sit down, get out of my face. Agree to disagree and move on because this debate is not worth either of our time, and all it will become is us yelling at one another and one of us wanting to wack the other with a 2 x 4. You want to get snarky, fine by all means go right on ahead but once that door is opened and we start going down that road there is no going back. So rather than degrading ourselves by flaming one another, lets just walk away? Good? Good.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Now that I've been playing more... giving this a go.

    • I main Rev with a side of warrior and ranger(Core ranger, ewww soulbeast)
      >! * Revenant feels ok-ish, I mean it sure doesn't feel the best and honestly I feel like we need more core weapons. We need more ranged options and melee options in core the more you ignore it and the more you NERF OUR WEAPONS the more obvious it becomes. Axe sucks, Shield sucks, sword is really it and it honestly is ok. Its not the best but its ok, I dislike what you did to staff and I Dislike how ALL CC's don't do damage. So why not just remove them entirly? I mean clearly you DONT want them to be used, you DONT want people to think and just roll their keyboard and auto-attack predominantly. Revenant is ONLY it feels like strong for power when Impossible odds is proccing and your AAing. I mean its solid, Its still fun and you CAN MAKE IT WORK. But when you innevitably nerf condi (We know its gonna come soon.) What then? What are we supposed to do because I know you're just gonna nerf the condi weapon/s . You just need to do some serious reworks to these legends/traitlines in the spirit of CURRENT guild wars 2 heck Id say you need to do that to more than just rev.... but core rev needs work. (Herald and Ren seem fine, their problems are also linked to core. Fix core and you fix around 90% of the issues with the class.)
      >! * Warrior: GIVE IT CC DAMAGE BACK DANG IT! WHY DOES THIS NEED TO BE SAID!!!!! Warriors are predominantly physical combatants, a lot of them have to get close because their ranged weapons are laughable. Like seriously warrior ranged? Psh. But Ranger melee yeeeeeea boi thats the good stuff. A RANGER CAN BE BETTER IN MELEE WITH THE SAME STATS AS A WARRIOR, BOTH COULD ATTACK AND THE RANGER WOULD BE THE BIGGER THREAT!? (Soulbeast) What even IS THIS. A warrior is someone you SHOULDN'T want to get in melee range of, because they will do what hulk did to loki. Guardians are even better at melee, heck Im sure everyone right now is better now don't get me wrong I love my warrior. And I still make it work. But It feels a Billion times more challenging to fight people of equal skill, and a lot of the time it feels like they just have more tools than I do. (Why does full counter do no damage? That is the WHOLE POINT OF SPELLBREAKER?!)
      >! * Core ranger needs love. No seriously it does. Core is in a ok-ish borderline poopy place where soul-beast and druid FAR outclass it. Honestly I thought you said E-specs were ALTERNATIVES not that they are necessary for your class to function at tip-top. I am not the best player, nor do I claim to be in that category of player or even close to it but im ok. I haven't touched my ranger since PoF because I loathed soul-beast and it once had become my main because I like HAVING A PET. And all you've done is make it worse, and worse and punished me time and again for liking the idea of an animal companion. All the core pets need a rework, all of them need to be fixed and brought up to date with Expansion pets and this is something that should take priority. Stop dinking with core ranger, when a lot of the issue comes from soul-beast and druid... Druid shouldn't have a Perma-root build but it does. Soul-beast shoudn't be the go to for anyone not wanting to be a druid, sure I play core and I make it work and I Can get it to work as could anyone determined enough to make their class work the way THEY want to play. Which you sold the game as.

    Honestly I feel like ALL of the core classes need to be reworked, and remade in the spirit of MODERN day guild wars 2. Why? Well a lot of them have outdated mechanics and weapons. (Necro staff/daggers, nuff said.) And some E-spec weapons and so on even have fallen behind, You need to consolidate and ensure all of modern guild wars 2 is within the aspects of the game going forward. You need to essentially touch up the core product, because sitting there piling on all this extra within the E-specs only takes away from the core game and the core classes. Rev, Ele and engie all need more core weapons this is something you gotta do. All of those classes feel horribly behind, and under-equipped compared to the others. Sure Rev and Ele both have ways to make sure they have more utilities, but why does that matter when aspects of those classes have been abandoned and stripped down to negligible levels? It doesn't. Stop making excuses and get it done.... Im tired of sitting here wondering what could POSSIBLE be going through the balance teams mind when they make X change.

    Also... clearly there is class bias, the dev's must have favorites. Because the only classes/specs that seem to be untouched.... well you can fill out the rest.

    Cmc mains warrior these days and warriors well.......not so great so a dev maiming a class really doesn't mean much, especially if they've made it known what class they play.

    Maybe he shouldn't be in charge of balance then? Clearly he is either not good at the game, or isn't playing the same game.

    If balance was about enabling highest levels of play from highly capable players ... you might have a point. In this case, that's not true.

    I never claimed to be highly skilled, I never claimed that is what is required. But the balance we have now does not equal fairer play for those who are not in that level, in-fact some classes feel and are downright garbo right now.

    By the way you speak, it certainly sounds implied; accusing people of not playing the game, not being good at it or devs having class bias are all indicative of that. The fact is that the balance we have now is the balance we have always had .. it is YOU that don't understand how the game is balanced, not everyone who aren't playing the game, not being good and certainly not the devs that you accuse of class bias.

    I mean I have proof for the bias, lmfao.

    OK ... that doesn't matter. LMFAO back at you.

    I dont understand how the game is balanced because the game is NOT balanced at all.

    ... and that this why you are always going to be confused ... just because it's not your version of balanced doesn't mean it isn't. Like ... you think you are the first person to notice this and complain about it? There is your LMFAO. You don't think a dev should be in charge of balance because he doesn't balance how you want? You realize how ridiculous that statement is right?

    If I botched my job like he has, Id be fired. Simple.

    You don't know if he botched his job because obviously you have no idea what Anet's balancing targets are to begin with ... Anet has been making these kinds of game changes for balance this way for 8 years ... NOW you think it's a problem? If you want backup for my argument ... THAT is it; consistent. I'm not degrading anyone in argument ... I'm telling you how it is. It up to you to decide if you want to accept that reality or stay angry everytime Anet changes the game in a way you don't like.

    Instead of assuming the worst of everyone, you could start by asking yourself why it works like this; why Anet makes these changes ... a more sensible and reasonable approach. Clearly you haven't done that.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Now that I've been playing more... giving this a go.

    • I main Rev with a side of warrior and ranger(Core ranger, ewww soulbeast)
      >! * Revenant feels ok-ish, I mean it sure doesn't feel the best and honestly I feel like we need more core weapons. We need more ranged options and melee options in core the more you ignore it and the more you NERF OUR WEAPONS the more obvious it becomes. Axe sucks, Shield sucks, sword is really it and it honestly is ok. Its not the best but its ok, I dislike what you did to staff and I Dislike how ALL CC's don't do damage. So why not just remove them entirly? I mean clearly you DONT want them to be used, you DONT want people to think and just roll their keyboard and auto-attack predominantly. Revenant is ONLY it feels like strong for power when Impossible odds is proccing and your AAing. I mean its solid, Its still fun and you CAN MAKE IT WORK. But when you innevitably nerf condi (We know its gonna come soon.) What then? What are we supposed to do because I know you're just gonna nerf the condi weapon/s . You just need to do some serious reworks to these legends/traitlines in the spirit of CURRENT guild wars 2 heck Id say you need to do that to more than just rev.... but core rev needs work. (Herald and Ren seem fine, their problems are also linked to core. Fix core and you fix around 90% of the issues with the class.)
      >! * Warrior: GIVE IT CC DAMAGE BACK DANG IT! WHY DOES THIS NEED TO BE SAID!!!!! Warriors are predominantly physical combatants, a lot of them have to get close because their ranged weapons are laughable. Like seriously warrior ranged? Psh. But Ranger melee yeeeeeea boi thats the good stuff. A RANGER CAN BE BETTER IN MELEE WITH THE SAME STATS AS A WARRIOR, BOTH COULD ATTACK AND THE RANGER WOULD BE THE BIGGER THREAT!? (Soulbeast) What even IS THIS. A warrior is someone you SHOULDN'T want to get in melee range of, because they will do what hulk did to loki. Guardians are even better at melee, heck Im sure everyone right now is better now don't get me wrong I love my warrior. And I still make it work. But It feels a Billion times more challenging to fight people of equal skill, and a lot of the time it feels like they just have more tools than I do. (Why does full counter do no damage? That is the WHOLE POINT OF SPELLBREAKER?!)
      >! * Core ranger needs love. No seriously it does. Core is in a ok-ish borderline poopy place where soul-beast and druid FAR outclass it. Honestly I thought you said E-specs were ALTERNATIVES not that they are necessary for your class to function at tip-top. I am not the best player, nor do I claim to be in that category of player or even close to it but im ok. I haven't touched my ranger since PoF because I loathed soul-beast and it once had become my main because I like HAVING A PET. And all you've done is make it worse, and worse and punished me time and again for liking the idea of an animal companion. All the core pets need a rework, all of them need to be fixed and brought up to date with Expansion pets and this is something that should take priority. Stop dinking with core ranger, when a lot of the issue comes from soul-beast and druid... Druid shouldn't have a Perma-root build but it does. Soul-beast shoudn't be the go to for anyone not wanting to be a druid, sure I play core and I make it work and I Can get it to work as could anyone determined enough to make their class work the way THEY want to play. Which you sold the game as.

    Honestly I feel like ALL of the core classes need to be reworked, and remade in the spirit of MODERN day guild wars 2. Why? Well a lot of them have outdated mechanics and weapons. (Necro staff/daggers, nuff said.) And some E-spec weapons and so on even have fallen behind, You need to consolidate and ensure all of modern guild wars 2 is within the aspects of the game going forward. You need to essentially touch up the core product, because sitting there piling on all this extra within the E-specs only takes away from the core game and the core classes. Rev, Ele and engie all need more core weapons this is something you gotta do. All of those classes feel horribly behind, and under-equipped compared to the others. Sure Rev and Ele both have ways to make sure they have more utilities, but why does that matter when aspects of those classes have been abandoned and stripped down to negligible levels? It doesn't. Stop making excuses and get it done.... Im tired of sitting here wondering what could POSSIBLE be going through the balance teams mind when they make X change.

    Also... clearly there is class bias, the dev's must have favorites. Because the only classes/specs that seem to be untouched.... well you can fill out the rest.

    Cmc mains warrior these days and warriors well.......not so great so a dev maiming a class really doesn't mean much, especially if they've made it known what class they play.

    Maybe he shouldn't be in charge of balance then? Clearly he is either not good at the game, or isn't playing the same game.

    If balance was about enabling highest levels of play from highly capable players ... you might have a point. In this case, that's not true.

    I never claimed to be highly skilled, I never claimed that is what is required. But the balance we have now does not equal fairer play for those who are not in that level, in-fact some classes feel and are downright garbo right now.

    By the way you speak, it certainly sounds implied; accusing people of not playing the game, not being good at it or devs having class bias are all indicative of that. The fact is that the balance we have now is the balance we have always had .. it is YOU that don't understand how the game is balanced, not everyone who aren't playing the game, not being good and certainly not the devs that you accuse of class bias.

    I mean I have proof for the bias, lmfao.

    OK ... that doesn't matter. LMFAO back at you.

    I dont understand how the game is balanced because the game is NOT balanced at all.

    ... and that this why you are always going to be confused ... just because it's not your version of balanced doesn't mean it isn't. Like ... you think you are the first person to notice this and complain about it? There is your LMFAO. You don't think a dev should be in charge of balance because he doesn't balance how you want? You realize how ridiculous that statement is right?

    If I botched my job like he has, Id be fired. Simple.

    You don't know if he botched his job ... Anet has been making game changes for balance this way for 8 years. If you want backup for my argument ... THAT is it.

    And never once, not once has it gone well. The balance in the game currently is a joke; People are mad and people more than normal even are getting pissy. Even in team/map/world chat its just constant "What even is this". By definition if someone who plays the class and knows it, sees a change and is asking "Why change this when its not the problem, this over here is?" is botching the job. When you have droves of players abandoning classes they like because they no longer offer fun gameplay, or worse yet can't even be run to compete with other classes? Botched job. So yes I do know he botched his job because if he hadn't we wouldn't be having this conversation, and this thread wouldn't be filled to the brim with people screaming "Why, what, how!? ARE YOU HIGH?". 8 Years and in those 8 years the game has had more downs than its had ups, so no thats not It. Your logic is flawed and you're looking for something that does not exist, Balance has been bad before but never in my 8 years of playing has it been to a point where it has become a reason for my Ire nor a reason for me to slowly question why I play still. Other things that have happened had, and most were one of those you shrug it off and keep stepping. This? Not so much.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    And never once, not once has it gone well.

    Based on what you think it should be ... sure. Based on whatever Anet wants it to be ... you don't know that. There isn't a flaw in 'my logic'. Anet balances how they want based on whatever their philosophy is ... that's not 'my logic', that's just how it works. Nothing happened in this balance patch that hasn't happened in every other one.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    And never once, not once has it gone well.

    Based on what you think it should be ... sure. Based on whatever Anet wants it to be ... you don't know that.

    I mean based on what A-net wants? They dont even know what they want the game to be. Which has been clear for all 8 years of the games existence. So I wouldn't use that as a support-beam for your "argument". And based on the lay-offs, and the generic "we might be going bankrupt" statement which was a no answer "we aren't done" which is common. (Worked with a few companies, who have given similar statements and it was only when they were in danger of closing up shop. Or when it was too late to not close up shop.) I'd say that likely the only thing saving A-net is Guild wars 2's potential... and its solid launch. NCsoft have shut companies and games down for less....

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    And never once, not once has it gone well.

    Based on what you think it should be ... sure. Based on whatever Anet wants it to be ... you don't know that.

    They dont even know what they want the game to be.

    That doesn't make sense ... Anet has consistently been making these kind of class changes for 8 years. That general approach has never changed.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Agrippa Oculus.3726Agrippa Oculus.3726 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2020

    @RoyalPredator.9163 said:
    Okay, so there are problems with the RANGER in WWW.
    I'm running on GS/LB on almost 9 years, daily. Main Char.
    Tried many different builds for DPS and all of them lacks DPS... Or when has some, it seriously lacks survability, which is a huge suicide in WWW roaming.

    FYI, a Ranger's Skirmishing would be to be a balance between Warrior and Thief. The trait lines are just rubbish for this... If you specialise on 2 weapons at once, LB + GS in my case, there will be a lot of sacrifices. And whatever dmg we deal, will be outhealed. We're destroyed by conditions in matter of seconds, since cleanishing takes ages, meanwhile some random stupid kid just spamms torments and bleeds with chilled and fears, which means we're on uncontrollable row of stucking and skills recharging (even DEFENSIVE skils kitten) to counter them...
    Reapers, they're the worst. Can kill any ranger in 2 seconds, no matter what. Once locked, poof dead. Spinning that scythe dealing twice the damage of our total HP and even the conditions.... Because what? We should have nice condition resistances anyway.

    It's NOT okay that some dude always cry on WWW Balance forums and Rangers getting nerfed to the ground!! Kitten not okay!
    Is there any actual devs that knows rangers and playing it a lot? Sure there isn't any...

    9 years and still no grasp of this game!
    I mean, the Ranger (with pretty much al its specs) is literally and logically the exact counter of the Reaper. Reaper is the embodiment of having to move close to you to deal its very much telegraphed damage! Whereas the Ranger ... well it's in the name, and I really hope I don't have to explain it. Furthermore, it has a toolset to keep its distance from their enemies and interrupt them when they DO come close. Ow and (not really) by accident, guess which class out there has the least access to stability of all classes? Indeed, the Necro!

    Btw, I see you struggle a lot with your Ranger, and like to tell people about your "unfair" struggle, but have you ever tried playing with a Reaper yourself and duel (1v1) those Rangers you see a LOT out there on those well-known WvW duelling spots ... (wonder why????) Would love to see a video of that!

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    And never once, not once has it gone well.

    Based on what you think it should be ... sure. Based on whatever Anet wants it to be ... you don't know that.

    They dont even know what they want the game to be.

    That doesn't make sense ... Anet has consistently been making these kind of class changes for 8 years. That general approach has never changed.

    Approach hasn't changed, direction constantly has. Just because their heavy handed approach, and nerf bomb tactic of nuking things from orbit while consistently placing classes in positions that are just unfair for that class at the time doesn't mean they know where they want the direction to go. There is a distinction but not a difference; Understand that the approach over the eight years has never worked. Not once. Most of the time until the next batch of E-specs com out (which is why these changes are happening now, to gear us up for the next OP shiny that will dominate for four or five years) the classes end up in a meh state. They do this to push the sale because when you see what is coming, you get excited and buy, buy, buy! Its a good tactic true. But when people catch on that nerfs and changes only happen when these sort of things are on the horizon then it just begins to grow stale.

    Believe you me, the next set of E-specs will shoot our "power creep" back up to insane levels, and we will be at square one. The current E-specs will be out shined and the first year or two it will be left like that, year three they will bring up the old specs to be on par with them. Then once we get close to expansion four, likely that might be the last one (assuming, based on the fact that their engine is and likely has been reaching its limit. It is the same engine as guild wars 1) Those E-specs will go through the same thing and we will close out guild wars 2 and they will either move to GW3 and make a new engine with less limitations or adopt Unreal engine. (Adopting unreal would be cheaper than making their own.) So yes approach never changed, direction of the game has four separate times.
    1. Living world, changed the direction from launch.
    2. HoT changed the direction from living world
    3. PoF changed direction from HoT
    4. Cantha is changing direction from PoF (all of these feel distinct, like different renditions of the same game.)

    Which means whatever gets taken out of your class now, whatever is removed. Likely will return in the new E-spec with new mechanics; Bloated modifiers and tons and tons of gimmicks. I mean since this is likely (I hope not) to be the kitten expansion, Im sure that classes who don't have mobility/stealth/clones or whatever will get those items. I see a Wukong themed warrior, with tons of speed and clones in the future. (Oh what fun. Wont make it out of beta before its nerfed to the ground.) Point being is nothing is sacred, and if you think the things that are being dealt with are gone forever? You're naive. From a business perspective it makes perfect sense make the game slow, clunky and honestly a downgrade from what it was to sell back portions of what was taken with some new stuff strewn through-out. Taking things out and re-making them isn't new either, tomes were taken off guard from launch and became Firebrand.

    Maybe I just wish for once A-net would not do this approach, and would choose to actually better the game. But then thats hoping for a miracle because NO game company in charge of live services, ever do anything for the fun or for their players. Its always about profit and how much can be gained, never about reputation or even good will from the player base.

  • Apokriphos.7042Apokriphos.7042 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2020

    I think its pretty clear what the problem is.

    1). A lot of soul bound character upgrades, no class changes allowed cause players to be force invested in a character class - whining about why the grass is greener on the other side of the OP hill.
    2). Nerfs to said characters class force players to complain more about it because they cant go to the flavor of the month class that didnt get nerfed as badly.

    Solution is simple. You should be able to change your class - or 2 traits/weapon access should be interchangable with other classes - i.e. Multiclassing.

    There was a great game that did that to help increase build complexity post balance to make the meta less solvable. What was that game?

    Oh yea. GUILD WARS 1.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    And never once, not once has it gone well.

    Based on what you think it should be ... sure. Based on whatever Anet wants it to be ... you don't know that.

    They dont even know what they want the game to be.

    That doesn't make sense ... Anet has consistently been making these kind of class changes for 8 years. That general approach has never changed.

    Approach hasn't changed, direction constantly has.

    Sure ... but even if the direction changes ... that doesn't imply they don't know what they want. If you choose to open your eyes and expand your understanding, class changes are all consistent with the idea they are balancing primarily on theme. In fact, there are lots of examples where we see Anet change directions and the game to align with what they want ... Herald rework is a good example (as well as many other class reworks).

    Or the alternative ... just keep being you, pretending like you got this and that no one knows better of what should be.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    And never once, not once has it gone well.

    Based on what you think it should be ... sure. Based on whatever Anet wants it to be ... you don't know that.

    They dont even know what they want the game to be.

    That doesn't make sense ... Anet has consistently been making these kind of class changes for 8 years. That general approach has never changed.

    Approach hasn't changed, direction constantly has.

    Sure ... but even if the direction changes ... that doesn't imply they don't know what they want. If you choose to open your eyes and expand your understanding, class changes are all consistent with the idea they are balancing primarily on theme. In fact, there are lots of examples where we see Anet change directions and the game to align with what they want ... Herald rework is a good example (as well as many other class reworks).

    Or the alternative ... just keep being you, pretending like you got this and that no one knows better of what should be.

    Because no one does know better(At least with how this whole song and dance goes, and the looming outcome that is likely to commence should something not be done.). I've been here through it all and the same thing that happened before is happening now with people leaving the game, due to the balance not being fair acrossed the board. If this was merely an issue of say the direction being hazy or it not being nuanced enough, fine and sure thats great and all but this is larger than that. You downplaying it proves you really either don't care, or you simply want to pick a fight and I shall provide it for you if thats you true desire in this conversation. How is it fair that guardian can exist in current state; And warrior is struggling to maintain any footing in player perception because in all honesty warrior as a class is inferior to guardian. Heck even revenant is inferior to guardian. All three are heavies but you could replace both with guardians and you'd be better for it because the things those two classes bring to the table (in competitive, more so WvW when it comes to rev as Renegade for the moment can be a good objective holder if played well. And herald isn't horrible but it is lacking in a lot of ways as is core.) But why would you bring a warrior when it takes much more investment from the team to make them work when compared to rev, and by larger extension guardian? If you were wise you wouldn't unless its for zergs and then you have them strictly for WoD which was the reason CmC stated they were such a issue. WoD made them necessary but they didn't address that and rather they nerfed their CC and utility into the ground, their weapons are worthless and it seems maybe more nerfs are headed their way.

    Warriors used to be a force to be reckoned with in melee, now they just die. I used to struggle against skilled warriors and even mediocre warriors could put in work but now they just spontaneously combust under the strain that is the other classes output and design. Warrior worked when CC did damage because it gave them more than just being a CC/WoD bot. Core CAN work but you must work infinintly harder than other classes to acheive the same results, so the problem still exists but the solution was more of a "Well if we remove their effectiveness we will cull their numbers, thus rendering the problem mute" which never works well. Revenant is in store for more nerfs as well, I assume it will be nerfed so hard it wont be playable. At least not unless you want a hard-mode expierence and to be a glorified thief with cooler effects~

    Messmer was treated much the same, we all know Infinite horrizon was a HUGE issue but rather than just fixing that they removed a dodge from the class if running mirage. which has made them like unicorn in WvW when compared with how abundant they were; My messmer friends have all said they play other classes in WvW because why when messmer, while ok isn't fun anymore. Granted this could be construed as them throwing a fit that their power got rightfully culled but it was culled in the WRONG area, and never fixed even AFTER IH was hit with its nerf. Meanwhile thieves (I've been playing one extensively and its probably one of the better classes to play right now. Fun as heck too.) Has strong variants in all forms of it. Same as guardian, ranger, ele and even engineer in their own applicable builds and abilities with tools to deal with most situations. Is the key to nerf them and strip them of everything? No. The key is to fix whats wrong with classes that are begining to fall off and loose playtime, and bring them to the level they should be at. I Feel like each case needs to be handled on a "Case by case basis" and not broad, branching and blanket nerfs and removals that serve only to complicate balancing even further.

    An example.
    1. Warrior should be one of, if not the only class that has damage on it's CC's as its limited primarily to melee as its ranged play is sorely lacking. This then gives it the unique role of being a front-line fighter with ways to handle conflict in such a unique way that it is distinct from guardian and rev. And gives it more value (and doesn't invalidate a huge chunk of weapons and utilities to boot.)
    2. Mirage should be given its second dodge back, if DD can be given three plus evades on weapons and can be made into a brawler if spec'd and played right then messmer shouldn't be punished for a trait that may or may not be broken anymore. If IH still is borked then remove it and replace it with something LESS oppressive and go from there.
    3. Rev needs more core weapons if we are to leave their current weapons as is, energy needs to be pulled off weapon skills and cooldowns off utilities outside of the heal with a higher energy cost added to compensate but give the class more nuance. Some weapons could use reworks (But all classes have weapons that are hot garbage that at this stage, might as well cease to exist.)

    The issue is as a community when we have people like you who shout down everything, say its fine and tell us to eat the soup and stop complaining that there is a roach in it yet the service CLAIMS to be clean and proactive in preventing such things? It just makes it harder for the dev's to hear criticism that they deserve and should learn from; As well prevents them form being held responsible for poor decisions they make and have made. You claim that I think no one knows better and likely there are as there are players who make me look like trash out there, no doubt about it. But clearly the team behind balance lacks vision and they CLEARLY dont know how all of the classes work or have a clue as to how to balance the game. The more you balance for zerg play and bum-rushing the more prevalent it will become, and the less engaged people will get because honestly not EVERYONE loves smashing lag-fest zergs together. (its fun but sometimes solo, duo or havoc roaming is more fun.) Blanket nerfs should not be a thing, every class should have fundamental tools to prevent them from basically being bullied into a corner and prevented from doing anything. The flow of combat shouldn't feel like this, it used to be fluid and fast and felt really good. Now Id argue that ESO or Tera online's combat is faster and more fluent than this game when this games core combat engine is so much superior, Im not saying its trash. Im saying they messed up and need to fix their mistakes.... but again keep doing you. You want to sit here and act like their "poop" doesn't stink thats on you. I suppose time will tell when we see how the interactions with the playerbase, and content within WvW and PvP goes if these changes helped or damned the modes. (Spvp sounds like its dying, from how the people I know are talking.)

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    And never once, not once has it gone well.

    Based on what you think it should be ... sure. Based on whatever Anet wants it to be ... you don't know that.

    They dont even know what they want the game to be.

    That doesn't make sense ... Anet has consistently been making these kind of class changes for 8 years. That general approach has never changed.

    Approach hasn't changed, direction constantly has.

    Sure ... but even if the direction changes ... that doesn't imply they don't know what they want. If you choose to open your eyes and expand your understanding, class changes are all consistent with the idea they are balancing primarily on theme. In fact, there are lots of examples where we see Anet change directions and the game to align with what they want ... Herald rework is a good example (as well as many other class reworks).

    Or the alternative ... just keep being you, pretending like you got this and that no one knows better of what should be.

    Because no one does know better

    Anet does ... because the game works how they want it to work, not how you or anyone else thinks it should. Even if they want to change direction ... they know what direction they are going to take it.

    This is not a question of some target of what's best for the game based on player consensus. No game works that way. It's simply about what Anet wants to do and you don't like that; I don't get why because every MMO works the same way ... the devs determine what they want for the game, not the players.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    And never once, not once has it gone well.

    Based on what you think it should be ... sure. Based on whatever Anet wants it to be ... you don't know that.

    They dont even know what they want the game to be.

    That doesn't make sense ... Anet has consistently been making these kind of class changes for 8 years. That general approach has never changed.

    Approach hasn't changed, direction constantly has.

    Sure ... but even if the direction changes ... that doesn't imply they don't know what they want. If you choose to open your eyes and expand your understanding, class changes are all consistent with the idea they are balancing primarily on theme. In fact, there are lots of examples where we see Anet change directions and the game to align with what they want ... Herald rework is a good example (as well as many other class reworks).

    Or the alternative ... just keep being you, pretending like you got this and that no one knows better of what should be.

    Because no one does know better

    Anet does ... because the game works how they want it to work, not how you or anyone else thinks it should. Even if they want to change direction ... they know what direction they are going to take it.

    This is not a question of some target of what's best for the game based on player consensus. No game works that way. It's simply about what Anet wants to do and you don't like that; I don't get why because every MMO works the same way ... the devs determine what they want for the game, not the players.

    none of that matters when none of the team are part of the team that created the game. Because differing philosophies and ideals work their way in and the contradict the original intention and thus cause conflict among themselves; If we had more people who were present during the construction of the game and who knew the original intention for the classes then maybe there would be more insight and less oversights. As it stands now the current team lacks understanding, and rather than fun they are doing blanket nerfs that effect some classes drastically(kitten near breaking them) and they either end up too powerful, or just worthless. Thats not healthy for the game.

    If A-net knew better they'd not of had to lay off so many people, as well NCsoft wouldn't basically have given us the underlying statement of they were potentially going bankrupt. Because that is how their message after the lay-offs came off, as someone who has seen that same message numerous times from other companies it reeks of "We messed up".

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    And never once, not once has it gone well.

    Based on what you think it should be ... sure. Based on whatever Anet wants it to be ... you don't know that.

    They dont even know what they want the game to be.

    That doesn't make sense ... Anet has consistently been making these kind of class changes for 8 years. That general approach has never changed.

    Approach hasn't changed, direction constantly has.

    Sure ... but even if the direction changes ... that doesn't imply they don't know what they want. If you choose to open your eyes and expand your understanding, class changes are all consistent with the idea they are balancing primarily on theme. In fact, there are lots of examples where we see Anet change directions and the game to align with what they want ... Herald rework is a good example (as well as many other class reworks).

    Or the alternative ... just keep being you, pretending like you got this and that no one knows better of what should be.

    Because no one does know better

    Anet does ... because the game works how they want it to work, not how you or anyone else thinks it should. Even if they want to change direction ... they know what direction they are going to take it.

    This is not a question of some target of what's best for the game based on player consensus. No game works that way. It's simply about what Anet wants to do and you don't like that; I don't get why because every MMO works the same way ... the devs determine what they want for the game, not the players.

    none of that matters when none of the team are part of the team that created the game.

    It doesn't make sense to claim Anet can't change the game or classes in a direction they want because devs aren't from the original team. Direction can change based on what Anet wants at any time and Anet can make changes to the game that are in that direction, regardless of who the devs are or original intent. We see that happen all the time.

    You simply don't want to accept the reality here because you don't like how it impacts you ... but that's how it works. Always helps to have some objectivity and flexibility when playing MMO's ...things change and you have to roll with them.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Ryou.2398 said:
    What a lame excuse ...

    Excuse for what? There isn't an excuse here. That's simply how it works. Implying it should be 'done better' means you haven't grasped how this process works. I don't get what 'valid point' is being made here ... Anet will never be able to make good class changes because it's not the way the poster (or other changes that some players don't like) want the direction of the game to go? Sure ... GREAT point.

    I'm the angry one? No, I'm good thanks. I'm actually pretty happy with most things that happen in this game.

    When your players know more about the game, its mechanics and its performance offer feed-back its beneficial to listen because they aren't being biased. I want all classes even those I might not like to succeed and be the best they can be; I dont make excuses for a team that has none. They keep telling us they cant, they cant ? Then find people who can and cut the dead-weight, as that is how it works in reality at all other jobs seemingly than the gaming industry. Im tired of hearing about how a company; Who I know has made a ton of money squandered it on dead projects that never were going to pan out. Thats horrid management, thats horrid investment and that is terrible that they abandoned this game for others without knowing if they could.

    Its time we fix the issues here, and make the game the best it can be and stop accepting their "Its too much work" excuse. Every other company manages, and every other company even talks far more than A-net does about whats going on. It is time we hold them accountable and stop excusing poor behavior and time management with praise because clearly, patience is not a virtue in this ecosystem. I want guild wars to succeed and I don't care who helms it, be it A-net or NCsoft as long as it becomes a better game and right now it doesn't feel better than what we had. No it feels like we downgraded and decided to make it extra buggy, to make it laggy and to make it unwieldy while stripping things from places it didn't need to be stripped. All of this should of been tested better, should of been gone through and the balance patches at least the main portions should of come out all at once. We still haven't gotten the second major half of the balance that they promised so where is it? Why is it taking so long? Why didn't you work on it and the first portion together? It takes too long to address these problems and that, mainly is why people like me are frustrated. Its because we have to sit for months on this stuff and wait. No word. No mentions. Nothing. Just literal radio-silence and hints through a twitch stream that are just more of "I like X but dislike Y so imma nerf Y into the ground and make it worthless, and leave X." which honestly, is not how you balance a game. And that is on its own damning.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 23, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Ryou.2398 said:
    What a lame excuse ...

    Excuse for what? There isn't an excuse here. That's simply how it works. Implying it should be 'done better' means you haven't grasped how this process works. I don't get what 'valid point' is being made here ... Anet will never be able to make good class changes because it's not the way the poster (or other changes that some players don't like) want the direction of the game to go? Sure ... GREAT point.

    I'm the angry one? No, I'm good thanks. I'm actually pretty happy with most things that happen in this game.

    When your players know more about the game, its mechanics and its performance offer feed-back its beneficial to listen because they aren't being biased.

    OK ... but that doesn't change the fact that Anet knows what direction they want it to take and make changes to do that. If they consider player feedback in that process ... great ... no one here is saying they don't. I will say they don't ALWAYS do that because frankly, players DON"T always have good ideas and DON'T know what direction the game is going.

    I know you're going to try to say players know more than Anet about what they should do than Anet knows about what they want to do ... but that doesn't make sense.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Ryou.2398 said:
    What a lame excuse ...

    Excuse for what? There isn't an excuse here. That's simply how it works. Implying it should be 'done better' means you haven't grasped how this process works. I don't get what 'valid point' is being made here ... Anet will never be able to make good class changes because it's not the way the poster (or other changes that some players don't like) want the direction of the game to go? Sure ... GREAT point.

    I'm the angry one? No, I'm good thanks. I'm actually pretty happy with most things that happen in this game.

    When your players know more about the game, its mechanics and its performance offer feed-back its beneficial to listen because they aren't being biased.

    OK ... but that doesn't change the fact that Anet knows what direction they want it to take and make changes to do that. If they consider player feedback in that process ... great ... no one here is saying they don't. I will say they don't ALWAYS do that because frankly, players DON"T always have good ideas and DON'T know what direction the game is going.

    I know you're going to try to say players know more than Anet about what they should do than Anet knows about what they want to do ... but that doesn't make sense.

    Well, NCsoft seems displeased with what they've been doing prior to the lay offs. Thus that would in theory mean that they didn't do that good? I mean the circumstances in which the game is now, directly comes from those lay-offs. Note we've begun to turn the boat around and undo a lot of the damage done by the Expansions, which really came down to bloat in the Elite specs. However NOT ALL OF THE CHANGES were good, and blanket and broad sweeping changes to hit everyone the same never manage to and only add to the already horrible state.

    Yes the game is not horrible (outside of lag and connectivity issues which is a different story, for a different time.) But some classes suck and they will continue to suck unless something is done. Warrior is trash, fix it. When a warrior is set side by side with Rev or Guard it does not compare, in tools or otherwise and it does not feel good to play. Sure it can be done. I manage. But I think some of the changes make no sense (Full counter does no damage, but is SB's whole reason to exist? So whats the point.) Mechanics > Multipliers. Never take out or nerf a mechanic you always go for the multipliers and damage numbers; Find the outlier which often times could be various things such as if the burst skills hit too freak'n hard take out the traits that make them get amped and replace them with something else? Its not hard to do.

    Changes such as removing a dodge roll (Mirage) and nerfing CC's on a class comprised of CC's (Warriors) are just two examples of changes, that showcase a fundamental lack of understanding about those classes and or specs. Not all of the changes were bad but some don't make sense; Some classes just feel like poop right now and people are dropping them. YOU NEVER want to reinforce the mentality that a class is trash; Otherwise we end up with "necromancer stigma" which is still rampant today with many people claiming the untrue statement that necromancers are trash. (They are strong, not the be all and end all but strong.) And it will take them forever if ever to recover and be welcomed in groups. Luckily warrior has the bubble that up until now has not been totally dumpster-fire worthy... yet... it would seem. Messmer... well I can't speak for messmer players but I've seen less and less of them so that says a good deal.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    I dont understand how the game is balanced because the game is NOT balanced at all.

    why is should??? It is not cyper sport discipline, this is game.

    Two of the classes I play and have played as my mains are kind meh right now.

    you can choose any class and any build as you want if you think what u unlucky whit current.

    But the community will riot if its buffed at all~

    yes, I am too. I am sure that one midl necro should kill 3 midl warriors. And this is true balance. Not joke. I bring my experience from other mmo games. So currently yours "unhappy thinks" very strange for me.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Warrior is trash, fix it.

    why it should not be trash? this is BS. All call this class BS. Banner Slave. Not Banner King.

    messmer

    mesmer was pro versus dominant pvp class very long time. Let them chill some time.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.