Grenade kit's condi are broken

It's all in the title.I know that the actual nade holo is purely power BUT thanks to storage unit, they can easily have close to perma 20+ might. This is also equal to +600 condi damage. So we have a power class which can do decent condi damage.Add to the fact that all the nade kits have absurd condi duration and stacks:

• shrapnel: 3 * 1 stack of 10 secs bleed. (3 stacks for 10 secs in total equivalent to 174 dps)
• Flash : 3 * 5 secs blind. (15 secs blind in total)
• Freeze: 3 * 2 secs chill. (6 secs chill in total)
• poison: 3 * 3 stacks of 8secs poison. (9 stacks for 8 secs in total equivalent to 625 dps)

As you can see, the main offender here is poison grenade. Why the fuck do I have to cleanse a condi received by a fully 100% power based class???I think poison grenade poison stacks buff was a mistake. Revert it to 1 stack for each grenade so 3 stacks maximum in total (just like shrapnel).Beyond that why the hell each grenade condi duration is so high? 10/5/8 secs, WTF? Only freeze grenade in reasonable. Those skills should be nerfed to match other classes condi duration of 2/3 secs.And BTW: remove the unblockable effect because it is nothing else but toxic.I know the main problem here is holo traitline, but grenade kit has some bs broken stuff tho.

Having an option to use vs someone blocking adds depth to the game. Literally going afk as someone sits there blocking is really silly imo, so I completely disagree.

The condi damage from these aren't an issue without might stacks, and chilled in general is too powerful. This also isn't the only power based build that has random condis - reapers throw a ton of condis(and lots of chilled) at you while being purely power.

This is a weird complaint, and is just wanting to remove depth from the game and dumb it down. Strongly disagree.

@Shiyo.3578 said:Having an option to use vs someone blocking adds depth to the game. Literally going afk as someone sits there blocking is really silly imo, so I completely disagree.

The condi damage from these aren't an issue without might stacks, and chilled in general is too powerful. This also isn't the only power based build that has random condis - reapers throw a ton of condis(and lots of chilled) at you while being purely power.

This is a weird complaint, and is just wanting to remove depth from the game and dumb it down. Strongly disagree.

Did a reaper stole your candy? you complain hard about reaper being too good but it’s fine having holos dealing heavy condi damage only because they can stack might in an absurd way.I also think that holo condi damage is too high for being a power based class, the burning they give you when shooting with holo pistols is broken 2.The new renegade build running shiro/dwarf has the same problem, after stacking 25 might every condi you put does way too much damage with power based amulets.

I agree, the poison nade is stil a bit the overperforming thing, unblock able is fine, you see a green light in his hands when he is starting the throw, you can dodge it, but either the 9 stacks poison should be cut or the long duration

Edit: not hardly cut, just a Lil bit

@AleCenta.2190 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Having an option to use vs someone blocking adds depth to the game. Literally going afk as someone sits there blocking is really silly imo, so I completely disagree.

The condi damage from these aren't an issue without might stacks, and chilled in general is too powerful. This also isn't the only power based build that has random condis - reapers throw a ton of condis(and lots of chilled) at you while being purely power.

This is a weird complaint, and is just wanting to remove depth from the game and dumb it down. Strongly disagree.

poison nades are the only ones that are busted, power holo at 25might can ceal 6k poison with them.....holo 4 is 2,1k. shrapnel is about 2,2k.they are bonus chip damage, not something that actually kills you.Might is the problem not the condi damage

I have given up on the notion that you can outplay Holo, no matter how much cooldowns you pop they will have theirs faster since they have low cd, you will not be able to kite them since they are faster, they will most probably outlast you in a longer fight with better sustain, you will not have enough dodges, having to dodge passive traitline damage, high hitting toolbelt skills, forge, grenade spam and the elite( unblocable AoE cc with pulsing fire field for holo players is considered their worst elite and im here sitting on other classes wondering which of the elites is the least shitty).The only solution is the simplest just kill them, pick the burstiest build you can get put some CCs for seasoning and pop some big Ks on them, they are pretty confused when something burst harder then them , you still have to put more effort then them to make the play but it is more consistent then trying to follow the "meta" builds and just get steamrolled at some point by holo.

Why not to then remove unblockable AoEs from other professions as well? There are much more toxic unblockables in this game, such as Choking Gas (Thief bow #4), which is pulsing AoE with great synergy with traits and sigils. And it has no cooldown, where as poison grenade has 25 s cooldown.,

Do you understand that core engineer has been NOT been meta since HoT came out and that was already soon 5 years ago. Yet, the people on these forums, keep asking core engineer nerfs, when the elite specs are the problem.

If holosmith is doing too much damage, then nerf holosmith, but stop nerfing the core engineer. One could argue core engineer is among the worst specs in the game, because it really is balanced and needs to trade in something defense or damage, but cannot have both. I would like to see many of the core engineer nerfs reverted to give some versatility back and not shoehorn all engis play the few viable specs.

are condis from nades the problem or that i can stand still and get ~17 stacks of might doing nothing and then hit #3 forge and get over 20 stacks of might consistently without doing anything else the problem?

@Tinkerer.2167 said:are condis from nades the problem or that i can stand still and get ~17 stacks of might doing nothing and then hit #3 forge and get over 20 stacks of might consistently without doing anything else the problem?

You can get a large amount of might generation on core, scrapper, and holo. Really they need to adjust that and the annoying blind/damage passive (I'm blanking on the name and I'm too lazy to look it up). It's not really the grenades that are the issue for any of their builds. The whole class basically has assassins signet with 100% active uptime in some form.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:poison nades are the only ones that are busted, power holo at 25might can ceal 6k poison with them.....holo 4 is 2,1k. shrapnel is about 2,2k.they are bonus chip damage, not something that actually kills you.Might is the problem not the condi damage

I’m saying exactly that, too much condi damage due to easy 20+ might stacks access.

@OddFinrir.6801 said:

@Tinkerer.2167 said:are condis from nades the problem or that i can stand still and get ~17 stacks of might doing nothing and then hit #3 forge and get over 20 stacks of might consistently without doing anything else the problem?

Yes explosive entrance is busted but nerfs should address only holo and not the other specs

@Deniara Devious.3948 said:Why not to then remove unblockable AoEs from other professions as well? There are much more toxic unblockables in this game, such as Choking Gas (Thief bow #4), which is pulsing AoE with great synergy with traits and sigils. And it has no cooldown, where as poison grenade has 25 s cooldown.,

Do you understand that core engineer has been NOT been meta since HoT came out and that was already soon 5 years ago. Yet, the people on these forums, keep asking core engineer nerfs, when the elite specs are the problem.

If holosmith is doing too much damage, then nerf holosmith, but stop nerfing the core engineer. One could argue core engineer is among the worst specs in the game, because it really is balanced and needs to trade in something defense or damage, but cannot have both. I would like to see many of the core engineer nerfs reverted to give some versatility back and not shoehorn all engis play the few viable specs.

Most of the issues with holosmith are due to a core traitline, actually.

@"Eugchriss.2046" said:It's all in the title.I know that the actual nade holo is purely power BUT thanks to storage unit, they can easily have close to perma 20+ might. This is also equal to +600 condi damage. So we have a power class which can do decent condi damage.Add to the fact that all the nade kits have absurd condi duration and stacks:

• shrapnel: 3 * 1 stack of 10 secs bleed. (3 stacks for 10 secs in total equivalent to 174 dps)
• Flash : 3 * 5 secs blind. (15 secs blind in total)
• Freeze: 3 * 2 secs chill. (6 secs chill in total)
• poison: 3 * 3 stacks of 8secs poison. (9 stacks for 8 secs in total equivalent to 625 dps)

As you can see, the main offender here is poison grenade. Why the kitten do I have to cleanse a condi received by a fully 100% power based class???I think poison grenade poison stacks buff was a mistake. Revert it to 1 stack for each grenade so 3 stacks maximum in total (just like shrapnel).Beyond that why the hell each grenade condi duration is so high? 10/5/8 secs, kitten? Only freeze grenade in reasonable. Those skills should be nerfed to match other classes condi duration of 2/3 secs.And BTW: remove the unblockable effect because it is nothing else but toxic.I know the main problem here is holo traitline, but grenade kit has some bs broken stuff tho.

Holo traitline is not the issue.

Anet, look at how explosive temper stacks with grenades: it has nothing like an ICD of half a second, which would make it may more healthy. Or steel-packed powder. If the dmg was kept the same but the # of grenades was changed to 2, things would improve

Atm those grenade "holos" aren't even playing holo. They just heat up to maximum and press a couple grenade buttons for ez wins (barrage before going out of holo forge, then they grenade auto while running away). No skill required. That on top of flashbang, which is an issue not fully addressed.

just look at the way each grenade throw has 3 explosion hits. Find a way to nerf grenades without fucking up other O.k. builds like ranged holo, mortar, or just explosive entrance.

Explosive temper isn't taken in the meta build. People are just trying to nerf things that aren't an issue, can we not turn every class into elementalist please?

Weren't they supposed to remove the ability to self high might uptime on every class a while ago ?

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Most of the issues with holosmith are due to a core traitline, actually.

Then nerf the sustain and mobility holosmith elite spec offers. Holosmith is supposed to be very high damage glass cannon.

Core engineer needs to sacrifice sustain for might generation and high damage. Holosmith has to do much less trade offs and that is the problem and has lead to unwise "balance" decisions in past as well. Instead of addressing the holosmith, they are constantly just nerf hammering core engineer to the ground.

Grenade kit is still broken in general. Running a trailblazer set in wvw and getting half my health taken by grenade spam.

If you want to keep damage for core that's fine, but there's really no need for the damage to be that high on scrapper or holo.

But they seem to be incapable of making engineer balanced so it is what it is.

@viquing.8254 said:Weren't they supposed to remove the ability to self high might uptime on every class a while ago ?

They probably did for everything but engineer. The only thing I've seen with comparable might is support scourge and occasionally warrior.

But hey, give a class sustain, ranged, melee, stealth, multiple cc's, blocks, evades, damage boosts from evades, vigor, high regen, superspeed, barrier, and easy 25 might. Might as well give them spammable high damage aoe with packets of condition damage too.

It's just the poison nade really, 9 stacks are silly. The other ones are fine.

@Bast.7253 said:Grenade kit is still broken in general. Running a trailblazer set in wvw and getting half my health taken by grenade spam.

If you want to keep damage for core that's fine, but there's really no need for the damage to be that high on scrapper or holo.

But they seem to be incapable of making engineer balanced so it is what it is.

actually I would suggest they do the same things to holo they did to mirage so most people dont even like holo anymore and also to scrapper. Then nerf the shit out of the core weapon skills, traits, and utilities like they did to mesmer. In the end core mesmer is as popular in wvw even arguably better than mirage and chrono now for some builds. That way people would find core engi balanced because it would seem strong compared to the nerfed to death holo and crapper.

I think unless balance direction changes for Mirage, druid, etc the only good solution for every espec that is top performer for its class over core needs to be nerfed untill its dead compared to core. Hopefully CmC is either fixing Mirage and others to make them stronger like holo or will bring holo down, then the rest.

Why are we still seeing holo in top tier? cant we just kill all the especs? Nerf all Especs till the only thing that can push into legend in pvp or 1vN in wvw are all core classes. Either that or try to actually balance the especs and admit that its ok for core to seem less compelling than the espec which is locked behind buying an expac. Seems like all that means is less asshattery w f2p and encourages ppl to buy the expac which is a good thing imol.

@viquing.8254 said:Weren't they supposed to remove the ability to self high might uptime on every class a while ago ?

Underrated comment

@Deniara Devious.3948 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Most of the issues with holosmith are due to a core traitline, actually.

Flashbang and explosive entrance are the issue, and perhaps high capacity unit, but NOTHING else is wrong with holo.

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Deniara Devious.3948 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Most of the issues with holosmith are due to a core traitline, actually.

lots of things are wrong with holo.lesser barrage hits like old normal barrage every 20s with delay, so you can combine it with other skills to 1shot from stealthlaser disk alone can hit for ~25k dmg, it creates aoe near holo for 9s where if you come close you will fucking dieIt deals so much fucking damage that you can let warrior stun you and combo you and he will take about as much damage as you do from this passive aoe alone.just 2 examples, I bet there is plenty of shit that people didnt even investigate since nades with 25might make it so that you dont even have to bother being clever and just hit people through walls for 5k+ damage

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Deniara Devious.3948 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:Most of the issues with holosmith are due to a core traitline, actually.

I think the majority of engineer mains would be more than happy to rework the lesser grenade barrage into something else that is actually reliable. Getting random damage from your healing skill is weird.

Not sure if laser disk really is problematic in PvP, considering that the most popular grenade holo build doesn't use it as far as I know.

@"Kodama.6453" I dont even play holo, I just made it to fuck around in arena and just noticed that I can hit a necro for 30k with a laser disk, no matter how "viable" you think it is its fucking busted.Lesser grenade barrage is probably the best on heal cast in the entire game, you can do nutty combos with it like corona->heal skill-> leap and suddenly you get boomed by several skills at once mesmer style. exept they dont hit like wet noodles but explode you for 5k dmg eacg easy.

EDITlook at other classes on heal skillshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Method_of_Madness -> chaos storm on heal every 75s.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenadier -> increase nade aoe, speed, and 3.0 coof strike every 20s.seems balanced right?

Damage on heal shouldn't exist.