Incoming Deadeye Gods & Other Overpowered Vision/Celerity Builds

So this is what's going to happen on 11/13/2018 in wvw:

• People will log in on their Deadeyes
• New (Sigil of Vision): Critically strike an enemy for 3 seconds after swapping to this weapon in combat. (Cooldown: 9 Seconds)
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Daredevil
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Valkyrie
• They begin selecting https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invigorating_Precision over https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Killer
• On that day, a new breed of double vitality virtually unkillable non stop damage burst healing Deadeyes will be born, that maintain or even surpass their rate of critical hits on bursts while coming out of stealth. And the forums will rain salt unlike anything the design team has seen before in the entire 6 years of Guild Wars 2's longevity.

Seriously, Deadeyes are already debatably overpowered and very ridiculous to deal with. They are ridiculous to the point that only about half the classes in the game even possess mechanics to actually deal with them. Arenanet, if you guys follow through with the Sigil of Vision and release it the way it is now, Deadeyes are going to become absolutely game breaking. Why? Because of how Deadeye is actually played:

• Tap a creature or player, or even fall off a tower to enter combat
• Weapon swap to proc Sigil of Vision
• Burst with that 3s of guaranteed 100% critical hit rate
• Stealth by dodge rolling, which procs the Rune of the Daredevil critical
• Death's Judgement
• Stealth by dodge rolling, which procs the rune of the Daredevil critical
• Death's Judgement
• Weapon swap is off CD, swap weapons again to proc Sigil of Vision
• Heavy burst with that 3s of guaranteed 100% critical hit rate
• So on and so forth, infinitely cycling, now with a greater critical hit rate than it had before, double the vitality, and literally infinite healing that never stops.

Some other classes/builds will also have ways to benefit from or debatably exploit the Sigil of Vision, but not to the degree of abuse that the Deadeye will present. Some classes/builds won't benefit from this new powerful effect at all, which is a bad thing. It will present entirely new balance issues where classes/builds that can utilize and benefit from the Sigil of Vision will become much tankier than usual while maintaining their burst, whereas other classes that cannot benefit from the Sigil of Vision, will need to keep wearing their Berserker gear, and miss out on all of that extra vitality. This is going to make certain classes/build very over powered.

To give you an example of what I mean: Right now, burst classes generally need to wear Berserker for optimal burst, leaving them squishy. The only class that maintains optimal burst while having a lot of additional vitality is the Core Guardian, due to its trait lines involving retaliation where it grants +50% critical hit rate. The retal + constant fury allows the Core Guardian to wear Valkyrie stats. It is important to point out here that this and this alone allows a Core Guardian to transcend out of the tier of other Core Classes and contend in competitive modes against HoT and PoF metas. If this effect begins happening with HoT and PoF metas, the classes/builds that benefit from it will transcend out of their current tier, and create an entirely new tier of competitive builds, leaving all of the others behind in the old tier which will no longer be viable vs. the new tier of bursters who have maintained all of their damage, while nearly doubling their health values.

I'm going to call it now, the obvious culprits that will benefit too greatly from the Sigil of Vision and its synergy with stats like Valkyrie + Daredevil Runes:

1. Deadeye "OMG accurately describes what's going to happen here" Actually most Thief based builds are going to be monstrous with the above effect.
2. Warrior/Spellbreaker "Sigil of Vision will make Core Warrior an unusually powerful 1v1 roamer, and Spellbreaker will be an unkillable boulder that rolls around and goes wherever it wants to, while maintaining its Berserker burst damage"
3. Maul/Worldly Impact 1-Shot Soulbeast "I'm talking actual single strike 35k+ builds, they'll be able to pull off their gimmick with much more safety"
4. Reaper "Boy that's gonna be a lot of extra vitality and life force while maintaining all of that Berserker damage"
5. Holosmith "Double vita while maintaining all that Berserker burst in forge and crits with Rifle 3 & 5 on dodge rolls!!"

Does anyone notice the pattern here? The power based builds that can burst with Vision and then go defensive for 9s while dodge rolling and landing powerful single strike skills that benefit from Daredevil, are going to be overpowered, though none quite to the degree of the Deadeye. Warrior/Spellbreaker can 3s burst each weapon swap with vision and land powerful skill criticals like Eviscerate during the 9s CD while dodge rolling around. Soulbeasts will do the same thing by bursting with LB on the 3s vision, and landing Mauls/WIs during the 9s CD. Reapers & Holos going in and out of Shroud/Forge are counted as weapon swaps, setting them up for 3s bursting, and then in the meantime of those 9s CDs, they just lands skills after dodge rolling like Engi Rifle 3 & 5, or Reaper GS 2 & 5. And we aren't even talking fury buffs yet or things like banners & class effects that stack a character/party with flat crit rate. These builds that I mentioned will likely be running around with about 30% to 50% flat crit rate on top of those guaranteed crits, on top of that mega vita. It's gonna get silly I tell ya, silly.

Any classes/builds not mentioned in that list won't so heavily benefit from this new powerful effect that vision is going to create. Guardians won't need it, DH will still need flat crit rate to perform its role, FB is a support anyway, Berserker is just not viable competitively, Ranger doesn't have WI to follow through with the Mauls and would likely still need flat crit rate, Druid is not a burst class, Engi & Scrapper just don't have the design to benefit, Ele needs to be sustain with heal to be viable at all, Mesmer builds require too much combo to benefit from anything other than the 3s burst every 9s, and would likely still need flat crit rates. And then of course, there is not a single condition based build on that list. All condition based builds will fall behind competitively for obvious reasons. Now the builds listed here in this paragraph are already the builds that struggle competitively. With the release of vision, they will in no way be viable at all.

Arenanet, please reconsider releasing Sigil of Vision as is. If it is released the way that it is now, it will create all of the problems mentioned above. Those problems will likely result in much deserved complaints about competitive balance in wvw, which will likely result in you guys inevitably having to patch the Sigil of Vision or remove it anyway. It would be good to prevent these problems before they happen, so the community doesn't have to play in such an imbalanced intra-class dynamic while they wait some months for a fix.

The Sigil of Vision needs to be watered down in some way, or omitted from the patch release entirely.

Oh and about Celerity, it will boost everything game wide so it won't necessarily create imbalance in the way that Vision will, but boy will it power creep the game. Might want to consider turning that 5s of Quickness per 20s down to something more like 2s of Quickness per 20s. With the amount of concentration floating around the game, 5s is waaaay too much.

~ Thanks for your time

Things like these make me a firm believer that developers enjoy playing with their thieves and mesmers.

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

So this is what's going to happen on 11/13/2018 in wvw:

• People will log in on their Deadeyes
• New (Sigil of Vision): Critically strike an enemy for 3 seconds after swapping to this weapon in combat. (Cooldown: 9 Seconds)
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Daredevil
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Valkyrie
• On that day, a new breed of double vitality virtually unkillable Deadeyes will be born, that maintain or even surpass their rate of critical hits on bursts while coming out of stealth. And the forums will rain salt unlike anything the design team has seen before in the entire 6 years of Guild Wars 2's longevity.

Seriously, Deadeyes are already debatably overpowered and very ridiculous to deal with. They are ridiculous to the point that only about half the classes in the game even possess mechanics to actually deal with them. Arenanet, if you guys follow through with the Sigil of Vision and release it the way it is now, Deadeyes are going to become absolutely game breaking. Why? Because of how Deadeye is actually played:

• Tap a creature or player, or even fall off a tower to enter combat
• Weapon swap to proc Sigil of Vision
• Burst with that 3s of guaranteed 100% critical hit rate
• Stealth by dodge rolling, which procs the Rune of the Daredevil critical
• Death's Judgement
• Stealth by dodge rolling, which procs the rune of the Daredevil critical
• Death's Judgement
• Weapon swap is off CD, swap weapons again to proc Sigil of Vision
• Heavy burst with that 3s of guaranteed 100% critical hit rate
• So on and so forth, infinitely cycling, now with a greater critical hit rate than it had before,
  and double the vitality.

Some other classes/builds will also have ways to benefit from or debatably exploit the Sigil of Vision, but not to the degree of abuse that the Deadeye will present. Some classes/builds won't benefit from this new powerful effect at all, which is a bad thing. It will present entirely new balance issues where classes/builds that can utilize and benefit from the Sigil of Vision will become much tankier than usual while maintaining their burst, whereas other classes that cannot benefit from the Sigil of Vision, will need to keep wearing their Berserker gear, and miss out on all of that extra vitality. This is going to make certain classes/build

very

over powered.

wow.valkyre is already the go to set for deadeye and that sigil is wasted because this here is much better and less clunky to use: hidden killerusing vision on rifle means you have to give up another more important sigil. its really not as great as it seems on paper for a deadeye.only because there is still plenty of berserk deadeyes out there, doesnt mean valkyre is not already better and if they cannot manage with hidden killer they surely wont get their weapon swap timed for their burst.

also i think the stacks from intelligence lasted longer wich for many will be a nerf when it gets replaced by vision as they window to use the 100% crit is smaller.

@MUDse.7623 said:also i think the stacks from intelligence lasted longer wich for many will be a nerf when it gets replaced by vision as they window to use the 100% crit is smaller.but it worked only for 3 hitswith the new sigil you weapon swap and just spam everything you have and everything is a crit not only 3 hits that is just crazy

@MUDse.7623 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

So this is what's going to happen on 11/13/2018 in wvw:

• People will log in on their Deadeyes
• New (Sigil of Vision): Critically strike an enemy for 3 seconds after swapping to this weapon in combat. (Cooldown: 9 Seconds)
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Daredevil
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Valkyrie
• On that day, a new breed of double vitality virtually unkillable Deadeyes will be born, that maintain or even surpass their rate of critical hits on bursts while coming out of stealth. And the forums will rain salt unlike anything the design team has seen before in the entire 6 years of Guild Wars 2's longevity.

Seriously, Deadeyes are already debatably overpowered and very ridiculous to deal with. They are ridiculous to the point that only about half the classes in the game even possess mechanics to actually deal with them. Arenanet, if you guys follow through with the Sigil of Vision and release it the way it is now, Deadeyes are going to become absolutely game breaking. Why? Because of how Deadeye is actually played:

• Tap a creature or player, or even fall off a tower to enter combat
• Weapon swap to proc Sigil of Vision
• Burst with that 3s of guaranteed 100% critical hit rate
• Stealth by dodge rolling, which procs the Rune of the Daredevil critical
• Death's Judgement
• Stealth by dodge rolling, which procs the rune of the Daredevil critical
• Death's Judgement
• Weapon swap is off CD, swap weapons again to proc Sigil of Vision
• Heavy burst with that 3s of guaranteed 100% critical hit rate
• So on and so forth, infinitely cycling, now with a greater critical hit rate than it had before,
  and double the vitality.

Some other classes/builds will also have ways to benefit from or debatably exploit the Sigil of Vision, but not to the degree of abuse that the Deadeye will present. Some classes/builds won't benefit from this new powerful effect at all, which is a bad thing. It will present entirely new balance issues where classes/builds that can utilize and benefit from the Sigil of Vision will become much tankier than usual while maintaining their burst, whereas other classes that cannot benefit from the Sigil of Vision, will need to keep wearing their Berserker gear, and miss out on all of that extra vitality. This is going to make certain classes/build

very

over powered.

Nah my good fellow, I think you have overlooked the depth of what is about to happen on 11/13/2018.

Deadeye's are going to start choosing this https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invigorating_Precision over Hidden Killer. I mean... come on man ^^ For those who don't want to click that link and read it, just know that "Invigorating Precision" will heal the DE for 20% of his critical hit's damage, every time he deals damage, with no cool down.

I don't use this word lightly, but that is going to be "impossible" to deal with unless the player the DE is fighting, is also playing a DE.

Do not release Sigil of Vision.

Either way Vision and Celerity seems broken as F for respect.

Just think any Druid or Soulbeast while under celestial shadows/stealth from Skscale and swap weapon to LB to LB4. 3 seconds of guarantee crit + 5 seconds quickness.

I hope Anet's Devs (or whomever does the decisions there) realize the changes are good for PvE but for wvw mode is going to be a sitfest and before this comes out they nerf the yeah out of those sigils or they split gamemodes and nerf the heavenly heavens out of those sigils in wvw mode.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

So this is what's going to happen on 11/13/2018 in wvw:

• People will log in on their Deadeyes
• New (Sigil of Vision): Critically strike an enemy for 3 seconds after swapping to this weapon in combat. (Cooldown: 9 Seconds)
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Daredevil
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Valkyrie
• On that day, a new breed of double vitality virtually unkillable Deadeyes will be born, that maintain or even surpass their rate of critical hits on bursts while coming out of stealth. And the forums will rain salt unlike anything the design team has seen before in the entire 6 years of Guild Wars 2's longevity.

Seriously, Deadeyes are already debatably overpowered and very ridiculous to deal with. They are ridiculous to the point that only about half the classes in the game even possess mechanics to actually deal with them. Arenanet, if you guys follow through with the Sigil of Vision and release it the way it is now, Deadeyes are going to become absolutely game breaking. Why? Because of how Deadeye is actually played:

• Tap a creature or player, or even fall off a tower to enter combat
• Weapon swap to proc Sigil of Vision
• Burst with that 3s of guaranteed 100% critical hit rate
• Stealth by dodge rolling, which procs the Rune of the Daredevil critical
• Death's Judgement
• Stealth by dodge rolling, which procs the rune of the Daredevil critical
• Death's Judgement
• Weapon swap is off CD, swap weapons again to proc Sigil of Vision
• Heavy burst with that 3s of guaranteed 100% critical hit rate
• So on and so forth, infinitely cycling, now with a greater critical hit rate than it had before,
  and double the vitality.

Some other classes/builds will also have ways to benefit from or debatably exploit the Sigil of Vision, but not to the degree of abuse that the Deadeye will present. Some classes/builds won't benefit from this new powerful effect at all, which is a bad thing. It will present entirely new balance issues where classes/builds that can utilize and benefit from the Sigil of Vision will become much tankier than usual while maintaining their burst, whereas other classes that cannot benefit from the Sigil of Vision, will need to keep wearing their Berserker gear, and miss out on all of that extra vitality. This is going to make certain classes/build

very

over powered.

if you think so, unless my sigils effects are changed i dont think my deadeye will put anything else on the rifle for good reason but explaining that would probably cause more trouble than what you expect from the patch ;)

@wanya.1697 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:also i think the stacks from intelligence lasted longer wich for many will be a nerf when it gets replaced by vision as they window to use the 100% crit is smaller.but it worked only for 3 hitswith the new sigil you weapon swap and just spam everything you have and everything is a crit not only 3 hits that is just crazy

yeah but if more people then go valk + vision means you allways got a 6s downtime after 3s burst, more time to recover than you have now mostly. unless that one burst is actually killing your opponents its not worth it, then sustained pressure will be better so you would need crit chance on your equipment / traits aswell.maybe scepter weavers profit from it, but they actually need that HP

I disagree with the OP. It's going to allow other bursty specs to be less squishy. Weaver , sd holos and other builds than can use insta+low cast time attacks/procs in row will surely benefit from it and can gear with more vitality now.

It's gonna be fun and exciting period of adaptation for everyone!

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

So this is what's going to happen on 11/13/2018 in wvw:

• People will log in on their Deadeyes
• New (Sigil of Vision): Critically strike an enemy for 3 seconds after swapping to this weapon in combat. (Cooldown: 9 Seconds)
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Daredevil
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Valkyrie
• On that day, a new breed of double vitality virtually unkillable Deadeyes will be born, that maintain or even surpass their rate of critical hits on bursts while coming out of stealth. And the forums will rain salt unlike anything the design team has seen before in the entire 6 years of Guild Wars 2's longevity.

Seriously, Deadeyes are already debatably overpowered and very ridiculous to deal with. They are ridiculous to the point that only about half the classes in the game even possess mechanics to actually deal with them. Arenanet, if you guys follow through with the Sigil of Vision and release it the way it is now, Deadeyes are going to become absolutely game breaking. Why? Because of how Deadeye is actually played:

• Tap a creature or player, or even fall off a tower to enter combat
• Weapon swap to proc Sigil of Vision
• Burst with that 3s of guaranteed 100% critical hit rate
• Stealth by dodge rolling, which procs the Rune of the Daredevil critical
• Death's Judgement
• Stealth by dodge rolling, which procs the rune of the Daredevil critical
• Death's Judgement
• Weapon swap is off CD, swap weapons again to proc Sigil of Vision
• Heavy burst with that 3s of guaranteed 100% critical hit rate
• So on and so forth, infinitely cycling, now with a greater critical hit rate than it had before,
  and double the vitality.

Some other classes/builds will also have ways to benefit from or debatably exploit the Sigil of Vision, but not to the degree of abuse that the Deadeye will present. Some classes/builds won't benefit from this new powerful effect at all, which is a bad thing. It will present entirely new balance issues where classes/builds that can utilize and benefit from the Sigil of Vision will become much tankier than usual while maintaining their burst, whereas other classes that cannot benefit from the Sigil of Vision, will need to keep wearing their Berserker gear, and miss out on all of that extra vitality. This is going to make certain classes/build

very

over powered.

Anyone who believes people are not going to trade Hidden Killer for Vision Sigil so that they can forever damage burst themselves to full health with Valkyrie stats, will be sadly mistaken on 11/13/2018 when they que up wvw and first encounter a Deadeye God.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

So this is what's going to happen on 11/13/2018 in wvw:

• People will log in on their Deadeyes
• New (Sigil of Vision): Critically strike an enemy for 3 seconds after swapping to this weapon in combat. (Cooldown: 9 Seconds)
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Daredevil
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Valkyrie
• On that day, a new breed of double vitality virtually unkillable Deadeyes will be born, that maintain or even surpass their rate of critical hits on bursts while coming out of stealth. And the forums will rain salt unlike anything the design team has seen before in the entire 6 years of Guild Wars 2's longevity.

Seriously, Deadeyes are already debatably overpowered and very ridiculous to deal with. They are ridiculous to the point that only about half the classes in the game even possess mechanics to actually deal with them. Arenanet, if you guys follow through with the Sigil of Vision and release it the way it is now, Deadeyes are going to become absolutely game breaking. Why? Because of how Deadeye is actually played:

• Tap a creature or player, or even fall off a tower to enter combat
• Weapon swap to proc Sigil of Vision
• Burst with that 3s of guaranteed 100% critical hit rate
• Stealth by dodge rolling, which procs the Rune of the Daredevil critical
• Death's Judgement
• Stealth by dodge rolling, which procs the rune of the Daredevil critical
• Death's Judgement
• Weapon swap is off CD, swap weapons again to proc Sigil of Vision
• Heavy burst with that 3s of guaranteed 100% critical hit rate
• So on and so forth, infinitely cycling, now with a greater critical hit rate than it had before,
  and double the vitality.

Some other classes/builds will also have ways to benefit from or debatably exploit the Sigil of Vision, but not to the degree of abuse that the Deadeye will present. Some classes/builds won't benefit from this new powerful effect at all, which is a bad thing. It will present entirely new balance issues where classes/builds that can utilize and benefit from the Sigil of Vision will become much tankier than usual while maintaining their burst, whereas other classes that cannot benefit from the Sigil of Vision, will need to keep wearing their Berserker gear, and miss out on all of that extra vitality. This is going to make certain classes/build

very

over powered.

3s is not a good enough reason for me, as a deadeye will want to be patient and not spam, at least not the way I play (intel would be of more use for me, as I like to save hits for when they count the most). I see more uses of this on my soulbeast or another class instead. I think it will be better suited for button mashing types :D

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

So this is what's going to happen on 11/13/2018 in wvw:

• People will log in on their Deadeyes
• New (Sigil of Vision): Critically strike an enemy for 3 seconds after swapping to this weapon in combat. (Cooldown: 9 Seconds)
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Daredevil
• https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Valkyrie
• On that day, a new breed of double vitality virtually unkillable Deadeyes will be born, that maintain or even surpass their rate of critical hits on bursts while coming out of stealth. And the forums will rain salt unlike anything the design team has seen before in the entire 6 years of Guild Wars 2's longevity.

Seriously, Deadeyes are already debatably overpowered and very ridiculous to deal with. They are ridiculous to the point that only about half the classes in the game even possess mechanics to actually deal with them. Arenanet, if you guys follow through with the Sigil of Vision and release it the way it is now, Deadeyes are going to become absolutely game breaking. Why? Because of how Deadeye is actually played:

• Tap a creature or player, or even fall off a tower to enter combat
• Weapon swap to proc Sigil of Vision
• Burst with that 3s of guaranteed 100% critical hit rate
• Stealth by dodge rolling, which procs the Rune of the Daredevil critical
• Death's Judgement
• Stealth by dodge rolling, which procs the rune of the Daredevil critical
• Death's Judgement
• Weapon swap is off CD, swap weapons again to proc Sigil of Vision
• Heavy burst with that 3s of guaranteed 100% critical hit rate
• So on and so forth, infinitely cycling, now with a greater critical hit rate than it had before,
  and double the vitality.

Some other classes/builds will also have ways to benefit from or debatably exploit the Sigil of Vision, but not to the degree of abuse that the Deadeye will present. Some classes/builds won't benefit from this new powerful effect at all, which is a bad thing. It will present entirely new balance issues where classes/builds that can utilize and benefit from the Sigil of Vision will become much tankier than usual while maintaining their burst, whereas other classes that cannot benefit from the Sigil of Vision, will need to keep wearing their Berserker gear, and miss out on all of that extra vitality. This is going to make certain classes/build

very

over powered.

The build you propose would actually be a damage loss over both full zerk scholar with no quarter and full valk scholar with hidden killer, would force me to drop either my rage or force sigil on D/P, and lastly would greatly reduce my window for attacking if the opponent decides to randomly block as I weapon swap. Celerity on rifle will be good for the build when using binding shadows (more limited though since you don't have the ini on that build to spam three round burst) but vision is of little use if you're playing optimally.

By the way, deadeye is not had to counter. Get up in their face until you force them to waste shadowstep, then while it's on cooldown time a strong CC skill for the end of their dodge roll and spike. The fact they're invisible is irrelevant, they're still CC'd and unable to defend themselves, and even if you don't kill them they will be forced to reset after that. I do this all the time on my own tanky non-stealth deadeye using binding shadows and S/P, if I can do it so can you.

Im more worried about new Sigil of Celerity, 5 second Quickness from disabling an enemy will benefit alot of professions.

Warrior - Bulls Charge or any disable = leads to dunkGuardian - Quicker burst upon landing CC = leads to dunkHolosmith - Rifle 4 -> Holo DUNK, or Holo 5 -> Mad AA Cleave, or Shield 4 or 5 -> anything. = leads to dunkRanger - LB knocbkack - > Mad deeps from 1800 range = leads to dunkRevenant - staff 5 - > mad deeps. maybe even Renegade Kalla with its AoE stuff can have some use with quickness. (AoE Daze from Kalla to proc it)Mesmer - Daze -> Mad deeps for 5sec = leads to dunkNecro - 1 fear -> unload AoE everywere for 5 = leads to dunkElementalist - well it requires some work, but possibly leads to a dunk.

Imo 5 sec quickness is worth more than 3 seconds of crit.Celerity doesnt lock you to a situationally less viable weapon for 9 sec. But yeah i do see the deadeyes making use of new Vision.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Anyone who believes people are not going to trade Hidden Killer for Vision Sigil so that they can forever damage burst themselves to full health with Valkyrie stats, will be sadly mistaken on 11/13/2018 when they que up wvw and first encounter a Deadeye God.

I don't think i'll be changing off hidden killer to use a sigil thats going to require me to start in d/p then switch to rifle. The only hit I really care about critting is Deaths Judgement and it already does that with HK.

10 - 20% of a crits hit being healing isn't worth switching all that round for to me. If I get hit it's usually because i'm cc'd and invigorating precision is going to do nothing to heal me in that scenario so it seems pretty worthless.

Maybe i'll try your suggestion for science though so thanks for the idea.

@"MUDse.7623"

• You implied that Intelligence sigil is better than Vision. Intelligence sigils won't hold up for the Rifle 3 spam, which is important for might stacking and ultimately finishing the opponent off. Vision will hold up for 3s, which is longer than Hidden Killer's 2s. Waiting 9s in between the use of Vision will be no problem paired with Daredevil Runes.
• It seems that you're not considering the use of Daredevil Runes in conjunction with Death's Judgement. I assume you'll respond with "Real DE's wouldn't use Daredevil Runes" and normally I would agree, but things are going to change when Vision is released and people start swapping Hidden Killer for Invigorating Precision. You can also say "That's clunky playstyle and the healing is hardly worth it" but we both know that statement couldn't be further from the truth. It's pretty common for a DE to land about 20k damage in about 1 second. 20% of 20k is 4k. So you're gonna tell me that having 4k life steal every 1s is hardly worth it? Like do you realize how many NPCs and creatures with high vitality are walking around those wvw maps? A DE is going to be able to stay engaged in combat with his opponent, but now be able to random target a Dolyak or something, and pewpew himself to full health in about 2s. This isn't even to mention just being able to bully other builds with sheer stand off power. Healing around 4k per second is some serious sustain so don't act like it isn't.
• You said: "I dont think my deadeye will put anything else on the rifle for good reason but explaining that would probably cause more trouble than what you expect from the patch." Yeah I gotcha, I play plenty of GW2 competitive modes and I play with plenty of DEs. In fact, one of the main people I duo with is a DE main who finished last season in plat 3. I'm quite familiar with how DE works. You are encouraging the idea though, that trading a very small % of damage for an enormous amount of sustained life steal is a bad idea, which is an absolute bologna statement. That sustained life steal from Invigorating Precision paired with DE level bursting is by far the most powerful source of self healing in the game, don't act like it isn't. A great way to example what I mean by this: When I 1v1 practice against my DE buddy, the only way I can kill him is to land Sic'Em, interrupt the Shadow Meld, and bully him with Rapid Fire. If he happens to get away, he can stealth around until he heals up a bit or he can be real ridiculous and ooc to full heal and then come back, which takes time to do and generally I'll reset as well. However, if he had the ability to life steal 20% of all that huge DE critical damage, he could bully me with his rifle spam vs. rapid fire and actually kill me without needing to even be evasive about it, considering I didn't have a CC ready to go. If he was playing evasive, and I had landed the first burst to get ahead, he wouldn't need to stealth around for so long to heal or ooc, allowing me to reset my life and/or allow my skills to come off CD. He could just dodge roll stealth around procing Daredevil Rune, pop me with attacks here and there not even planning to land a big burst yet, and just very very quickly heal to full without even using his actual heal skill.

You can toss all the coy defense you want at what's going to happen on 11/13/2018, but I'm not buying it.

Remember the cooldown will in reality be a minimum of 18 seconds, unless you run rifle/rifle or pistol/pistol which both have severe limitations. 3 sec is not that different from 3 hits as skills have cast time, precast and aftercast, and you still need to hit - this way you can force them to go defensive after swap so they lose the bonus instead of just holding on to those 3 hits. I agree this has the opportunity to introduce a tankier meta, but your vision of the future is already in game yet nobody uses it. Even better, as a sigil they can adjust both the cooldown, duration of effect and crafting cost should it turn out to be the favoured pick. People who can play around core guard will still beat the thief as it will be even squishier without toughness or protection and constantly draining it's dodgebars trying to hit you.

@"rng.1024"

Where the Vision is different is that ALL the attacks are guaranteed criticals. So where Intelligence fails by getting eaten up because you full counter and smack 3 clones before hitting the Mirage, the Vision will prevail. Where Intelligence fails from laying symbols with multiple ticks, Vision prevails by allowing the Guardian 3s where every single thing he does is a critical, including 2x symbols, a trap and some GS burst or whatever. That 3s of 100% guaranteed critical is debatably more dangerous than a Berserker build with 75 or 80% crit. Anyone who seriously pvps in this game or other games like it, should know that "Burst has nothing to do with DPS." @"Jugglemonkey.8741" mentioned a loss in DPS, but in most cases competitively, that doesn't matter. The only thing that matters when we are talking about DEs, Power Mirage, Killshot Warriors, ect ect, is the burst, not its damage output over the course of 60s. If that 3s of burst is granting 100% critical hit rate, if it can down you in that 3s flat after cycling through a defensive routine, it doesn't need sustained damage or any form of DPS outside of that 3s burst. The 3s of burst from Vision over the 2s from Hidden Killer will likely make up for the damage loss, but now additionally add enormous life steal factor.

The best example I can stress here is back when I used to main Bunker Druid in spvp. I would often get the top damage stat in matches, even though people would widely acknowledge Bunker Druids as a build that deals no damage. I found this interesting and I had a couple buddies run a test with me. We had two Bunker Druids deal damage to each other over the course of 2 minutes in a 1v1. On a different node we had a couple D/P Daredevils in a 1v1 for 2 minutes. At the end of the test, the Bunkers had dealt much more damage to each other than the Thieves had dealt to each other. Realistically the Thieves are "waiting for that right moment" to land a BURST. They don't DPS each other, but when that burst lands, someone dies. In the case of Deadeye this is particularly true. All the DE does is sneak around and then burst and then disappear and then sneak around and then burst. Is there something I'm not understanding here? It seems that the DE can afford to sneak around waiting for that 3s burst while he uses crit on dodge roll stealths. During that dodge roll phase, he can easily heal to full without ever using his actual heal skill.

Jugglemonkey had mentioned the loss in damage from Scholar and the smaller window for attack. I see what you mean, but I guess we'll have to see. To put this into a different perspective, my forecast is: Slightly lower damage Deadeyes, that still deal plenty lethal damage, that might take a little longer to kill you, but now life steal so much that you can't actually kill them unless they lag or get very lazy.

Probably the most broken sigils ever in the game.

Zergs with huge quickness uptime and crit uptime.

Roaming will be even worse than it currently is...

Anyone who doesn't think these sigils aren't broken... please read them again

Wouldnt a glass rev with IO and sword 4 be obliterating things also?

Edit: spelling

@Rysdude.3824 said:Wouldnt a glass rev with IO and sword 4 be obliterating things also?

Edit: spelling

I had thought about that, but Heralds actually need sustained damage beyond a 3s burst. People can too easily just dodge a Herald's first 3s and then he has no method to disengage and wait for that 3s again. They can't land actual one shots like a Soulbeast, or link together a ton of instant cast skills like a Guardian or Mesmer to really exploit that 3s. The Deadeye will get away with it only because of its stealth uptime.

@Rysdude.3824 said:Wouldnt a glass rev with IO and sword 4 be obliterating things also?

Edit: spellingEvery class that can burst or do very high damage attacks gain from it.

Wait thats all of them.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@MUDse.7623

• You implied that Intelligence sigil is better than Vision. Intelligence sigils won't hold up for the Rifle 3 spam, which is important for might stacking and ultimately finishing the opponent off.

now this explains alot of what you type here, if thats what you experience from your plat 3 mate..then he is not as good as you think he is in WvW. spvp is not WvW.

Deadeye is probably the least of all professions who will benefit from the vision sigil simply because it's an HIT&STEALTH build.He casts death judgement and maybe rifle3 and immediately stealth again, he can't afford to stay 3 seconds out of stealth or a good player can easily gap close, land a cc and oneshot the deadeye, so how a deadeye will make a good use of the sigil?I will be so happy if a deadeye tries to stay revealed for 3 seconds trying to burst me, i dodge everything and i have a pretty good window to counter attack him.

The classes who will benefit more from the sigil are:Revenant, you will love those sword3 hits all crits while the rev is inside your body, and a dodge doesn't cover the full animation, plus sword4.Core guards will melt you even more with greatsword2.Core warriors or megabane spellbreakers probably substitute of hydromancy on greatsword so when you swap to greatsword you will have all crits coming out of greatsword3 and it's pretty huge, or even for the normal combo bull's charge into greatsword2.Power shatter mesmers, the burst is done in 1-2 seconds depending on the player how fast he is to land the burst combo can take even less than 1 second, so having it all crits will make it more consistent and more certain to oneshot.Another one could be axe/axe soulbeast probably using both celerity and vision as soon he swaps to axe/axe set and use axe5 in melee range you are ultradead done more than now.

Now i can't think of others in specific, it's a buff to holo as well who can increase the dps by spamming photon forge autos and the other skills.

Sadly, it seems that fights gonna become even more like "try to land your 3sec burst -> dance, dance, dance -> dodge enemy burst -> dance, dance, dance -> try again to land your 3sec burst". He who first eats that burst is practically dead.

What about the old concept, that burst is just a counter to bunker builds? (or a role play aspect of assassin classes) To drop bunkers below 0 HP, and avoid that they heal back up again.

Unfortunatelly, especially with anti-burst / kite mechanics like invuln, dodge, blink, stealth, burst builds do not just counter bunkers, but work much too good against any other build type. I hope this won't get even worse.

Is it save to asume that these sigils are available in WvW? Does Sigil of Vision replace Sigil of Intelligence, or is it additional?

@"enkidu.5937" said:Is it save to asume that these sigils are available in WvW? Does Sigil of Vision replace Sigil of Intelligence, or is it additional?

it will replace it according to this.and i am certain they will be in WvW as they didnt talk about an equipment split between PvE and WvW, so what do you expect to happen?'press the button to enter eternal battlegrounds' -> 'error: please remove your superior sigil of vision from your weapon.' or rather 'enter eternal battlegrounds' -> 'arrive naked, cant equip my weapons and armor' ?