ANET, Fix WvW Roaming

Remember when roaming used to be fun, viable and relatively balanced? Now it's "Play Condi Mirage or GTFO". Try to create balanced gameplay. Please.

@"Bubbaworks.6023" said:Remember when roaming used to be fun, viable and relatively balanced? Now it's "Play Condi Mirage or GTFO". Try to create balanced gameplay. Please.

I mean condi mirages are a pain, but they aren't what is hurting roaming right now.

Use anti toxin runes. Hue hue hue.

D:

Take an hour on a border in primetime and then list all the classes and percieved builds you meet in each engagement.

If condi mirage exceed 1/10th of encounters I would be surprised.

In fact if condi any class exceed 10% I would be just as surprised.

I spend all my time solo roaming and I can't say there is one class to rule them all. There are things that I will lose to consistently, but what those things are depends on what I am playing. And I'm a filthy casual, for a skilled player I would imagine this to be even more true . . .

@Dawdler.8521 said:Take an hour on a border in primetime and then list all the classes and percieved builds you meet in each engagement.

If condi mirage exceed 1/10th of encounters I would be surprised.

In fact if condi any class exceed 10% I would be just as surprised.

Dawdler is correct.

As an Ele roamer I welcome a condi opponent.

I have to play differently against it but honestly, if you aren’t finding ways to mitigate your weaknesses, you maybe need to bring friends roaming.

Or try a class that has more condi clears.

By playing Ele, I know I am susceptible to high damage power builds. If I am encountering more Ranger types I bring a focus off hand.

There is no one size beats all build. For any class.

@Dawdler.8521 said:Take an hour on a border in primetime and then list all the classes and percieved builds you meet in each engagement.

If condi mirage exceed 1/10th of encounters I would be surprised.

In fact if condi any class exceed 10% I would be just as surprised.

its sad but an hour on primetime for my server is...2 encounters..

A warrior(unknown build, ran away), and druid.

I run condi SB on my ranger, but i tend to avoid players while doing so.

Condi mirage is the only viable solo roaming class for condi, it's about as annoying as it's power counterpart, the problem with roaming is that it is heavily tilted in favor of

MesmerThiefRanger

other classes are incredibly underrepresented and with good reason. You see the occasional warrior, holosmith, ele and revenant and very rarely a guardian or necro looking lost...

@lodjur.1284 said:the problem with roaming is that it is heavily tilted in favor of

MesmerThiefRanger

Which are the three classes that tend to be out of the Zerg Meta.

other classes are incredibly underrepresented and with good reason. You see the occasional warrior, holosmith, ele and revenant and very rarely a guardian or necro looking lost...

Which Necro and guardian are highly represented in Zergs.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@"lodjur.1284" said:the problem with roaming is that it is heavily tilted in favor of

MesmerThiefRanger

Your point being?

other classes are incredibly underrepresented and with good reason. You see the occasional warrior, holosmith, ele and revenant and very rarely a guardian or necro looking lost...

Because zerg meta is so relevant for a discussion on roaming, to be honest you could run naked w/o weapons in zergs and it wouldn't make a difference. Zergs are toxic for a lot of reasons completely unrelated to class/build balance. Roaming was a lot less awful only 1-2 years ago and even better than that before PoF. What makes roaming toxic is no-risk max-reward linear builds like the three classes I mentioned.

Fighting what is basically only extremely linear builds gets very boring quickly, the play pattern is always "Attempt burst>burst fails>reset>Attempt burst>reset>repeat>repeat>repeat>repeat>repeat>repeat>target fell asleep and died". This is exactly what fighting any of these always boils down to on anything that can't match the combination of ranged/stealth/mobility of these because they never need to commit to any fight. It's not that you can't get the drop on them sometimes, but that you know that what you do matters very little and the only time they die is if they play terrible.

This linear gameplay makes every fight feel the same, because it is, I notice this when playing these classes too, my play pattern just becomes executing a pre-planned burst combo of some sorts and then either stomping/cleaving or running away if it wasn't enough, then repeating this, the ability to do this w/o any risk is why roaming is terrible right now.

@lodjur.1284 said:very rarely a guardian or necro looking lost...

(Raises hand)

Hey can someone point me to the nearest Warg for my daily? :3

Personally I love running across a Soulbeast. I just stow weapon and let them long range me for 7k with their autos because fighting them would just waste their and my own time. I never see Mirages or Mes in general. It's always Thief or Ranger in one form or another. Occasionally a Spellbreaker that didn't get the memo of the spec being trash

@Blocki.4931 said:Personally I love running across a Soulbeast. I just stow weapon and let them long range me for 7k with their autos because fighting them would just waste their and my own time. I never see Mirages or Mes in general. It's always Thief or Ranger in one form or another. Occasionally a Spellbreaker that didn't get the memo of the spec being trash

I am taking 7.5-8k autos sometimes, and I'm running nearly full CVT gear. I can't even imagine what that would be on a squishy. 1-shot autoattack from 2k range?

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:the problem with roaming is that it is heavily tilted in favor of

MesmerThiefRanger

Two of them, yes, but mesmer no, it has always had at least a niche spot in zergs and since HoT often a bit more than that, it has also generally done a bit better when it comes to guilds, whilst at the same time being a top tier roamer pretty much the entire game.

Meanwhile you have engy that is actually the third class that has spent most of the game out of the zerg meta and only really Holosmith was top notch as a roamer, similar thing if you compare ranger & engy to warrior for roaming where much of the game warrior has often been about as good as ranger and often better than engy, yet has also largely had a place in zergs those two classes have not.

There is no zerg class vs roamer class balance, there is just whatever result you end up with in WvW from the changes they make to PvP and since HoT also PvE, WvW is barely considered when it comes to balancing.

@Blocki.4931 said:Personally I love running across a Soulbeast. I just stow weapon and let them long range me for 7k with their autos because fighting them would just waste their and my own time. I never see Mirages or Mes in general. It's always Thief or Ranger in one form or another. Occasionally a Spellbreaker that didn't get the memo of the spec being trash

@coro.3176 said:

I hate seeing power SBs, but i imagine loads of other roamers love seeing my Condi SB(if they can catch me.)

@Blocki.4931 said:Personally I love running across a Soulbeast. I just stow weapon and let them long range me for 7k with their autos because fighting them would just waste their and my own time. I never see Mirages or Mes in general. It's always Thief or Ranger in one form or another. Occasionally a Spellbreaker that didn't get the memo of the spec being trash

On my zerker ele i get insta gibbed before i can even get in range to hit them with my sword, and DEs. 15k hits arent uncommon from any of the classes, and i sadly cant even hit them back, yay no weapon swap!

I dont even bother fighting back when i get attacked on my ele anymore, it wastes my time so id rather just die and respawn.

From my own observations roaming, condi mesmer is not over-represented in the classes I encounter BUT when I do encounter one I generally have 0 chance against it on most of my classes, including my Soulbeast.

I'm solidly in the average roamer section but condi mesmer is just not one I can handle - might be a case of git gud but I don't think anyone agrees that it's a 'fair' fight and a high skill cap class to fight with or against.

I've never understood why it's been allowed to develop this way but I presume their are reasons. If I'm on a class that can escape easily (thief, power mes, holo) I simply hot-foot it in the other direction now.

Other than that I think roaming is generally fair if you gear and pick a suitable class - lets be honest here: a necro of any sort roaming is just a walking bullseye!

@Dawdler.8521 said:Take an hour on a border in primetime and then list all the classes and percieved builds you meet in each engagement.

If condi mirage exceed 1/10th of encounters I would be surprised.

In fact if condi any class exceed 10% I would be just as surprised.

Condi mirages seem to be making a comeback.Or at least I've been meeting them more this matchup against BG and CD.Just earlier during Late NA/OCX/SEA prime, BG invaded ARBL with at least 3 condi mirages, 1 weaver, 1 soulbeast, 1 spellbreaker, 1 herald.Mirage made up for almost half the invasion force and boi were they hard to kill.And in ebg encountered 3-4 roamers and all were condi/hybrid mirages...

@"lodjur.1284" said:Fighting what is basically only extremely linear builds gets very boring quickly, the play pattern is always "Attempt burst>burst fails>reset>Attempt burst>reset>repeat>repeat>repeat>repeat>repeat>repeat>target fell asleep and died". This is exactly what fighting any of these always boils down to on anything that can't match the combination of ranged/stealth/mobility of these because they never need to commit to any fight. It's not that you can't get the drop on them sometimes, but that you know that what you do matters very little and the only time they die is if they play terrible.

This linear gameplay makes every fight feel the same, because it is, I notice this when playing these classes too, my play pattern just becomes executing a pre-planned burst combo of some sorts and then either stomping/cleaving or running away if it wasn't enough, then repeating this, the ability to do this w/o any risk is why roaming is terrible right now.

This here very accurately describes roaming in current WvW. Those builds literally only die if you somehow get the drop on them or if they play terribly or for some reason decide not to run away. Trust me i actually geared my Deadeye just to see what it was like to be on the other side . (i admit this was before the "marked" update). I got bored in just one evening where i literally never died. I either killed every lone roamer i met (i of course didnt bother to fight other stealth classes) or i ran away to reset continuously. Sometimes they managed to run into a tower because i was a noob at deadeye and didnt burst them enough.

But my point being i never felt at any time in danger of dying in a 1v1. How can anything be "fun" if there is zero danger for you?It must be like playing those old PC games where you have the cheat code that makes you god mode and you can walk through every level.

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Take an hour on a border in primetime and then list all the classes and percieved builds you meet in each engagement.

If condi mirage exceed 1/10th of encounters I would be surprised.

In fact if

condi any class

exceed 10% I would be just as surprised.

When I ran this evening we faced off against 3 reapers constantly, not a single enemy mirage on the entire border from what I could tell.

Hm, maybe I should start a thread about how power reaper is OP in roaming... I mean my evening was proof that its the only roaming class.

so for 2 weeks of play i have seen 15 mes rangeing from pure condi and pure dps to the hard core hybrid builds in all forms so i do find them more of a pain even though i know what they are about to do. now as for rangers and thiefs some days i see them but not like i used to. as for what i see also roaming is ele and reves sometimes with a thief or a war that is just messing around for some fun. but this from my server and eatch server does stuff diferantly so dont take my intell as this being the norm.

@Spartacus.3192 said:

@"lodjur.1284" said:Fighting what is basically only extremely linear builds gets very boring quickly, the play pattern is always "Attempt burst>burst fails>reset>Attempt burst>reset>repeat>repeat>repeat>repeat>repeat>repeat>target fell asleep and died". This is exactly what fighting any of these always boils down to on anything that can't match the combination of ranged/stealth/mobility of these because they never need to commit to any fight. It's not that you can't get the drop on them sometimes, but that you know that what you do matters very little and the only time they die is if they play terrible.

This linear gameplay makes every fight feel the same, because it is, I notice this when playing these classes too, my play pattern just becomes executing a pre-planned burst combo of some sorts and then either stomping/cleaving or running away if it wasn't enough, then repeating this, the ability to do this w/o any risk is why roaming is terrible right now.

as you can pick any encounter with deadeye, indeed you dont ever have to put yourself in danger. however if you never felt to be in danger, than you avoided more than you should have. if there is no single opponent on the map that is able to pressure a deadeye, maybe start fighting 1 vs X and you will see how much deadeye is focused onto fighting 1 opponent at a time. only because you can play it safe, doesnt mean that it is good to play it too safe - your wasting a lot of time then and miss out on a ton of kills.

Lol condi mirage is such a no-skill hack class. I'm amazed at how long it remains untouched. I wouldn't let it bother you, just roll a healer to roam with and they are pretty irrelevant.

may I suggest you try reaper I play pure power and you can down right shred a condi mirage <3

Yeah reapers a great Roamer. Say what? Lol I kid

@"Bubbaworks.6023" said:Remember when roaming used to be fun, viable and relatively balanced? Now it's "Play Condi Mirage or GTFO". Try to create balanced gameplay. Please.

You can still be soulbeast or thief and be on an equal level of "faceroll".