Hyperlynx.6429 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Well, for the first time in my 3? 4? years playing this game, I finally decided to try out a minions necromancer. Berserker gear, all skill involving minions, axe and dagger.I'm now face-stomping absolutely everything, with no effort required at all. I quite liked Lake Doric, playing as a guardian with mace/shield+hammer - it's a real challenge, and I enjoy that. But my necro is tearing through Lake Doric like tissue paper.It's totally, utterly game-breaking. I can't see any good reason to play anything else, it's just so overpowered. I really think it needs to be nerfed heavily. It's not just better than any other build, it's an order of magnitude better. There's no comparison. It's like all other builds are playing with a handicap by comparison, and that feels really weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep.4026 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I have to agree. I started actively playing about 6 months ago and began with the necro. The problem isn't just that everything is easy, everything is boring.I then tried a few other classes and was completely overwhelmed by the challenge. All of the sudden, skill was required and for quite some time, it was no fun at all, simply because I wasn't used to it.I mainly play other classes now and enjoy them very much. When I do log on to my nec, I play Scourge. Reaper power mm is so overpowered in solo play, so void of any challenge at all, that it's also void of any fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 @Hyperlynx.6429 said:Well, for the first time in my 3? 4? years playing this game, I finally decided to try out a minions necromancer. Berserker gear, all skill involving minions, axe and dagger.I'm now face-stomping absolutely everything, with no effort required at all. I quite liked Lake Doric, playing as a guardian with mace/shield+hammer - it's a real challenge, and I enjoy that. But my necro is tearing through Lake Doric like tissue paper.It's totally, utterly game-breaking. I can't see any good reason to play anything else, it's just so overpowered. I really think it needs to be nerfed heavily. It's not just better than any other build, it's an order of magnitude better. There's no comparison. It's like all other builds are playing with a handicap by comparison, and that feels really weird.Now try it in any high-end content, and you will see why it's not as OP as it may seem based on open world alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palador.2170 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 It IS powerful, but you trade control for that power.The minions will do what they do, and you have only a little basic control over them. I use a minion-mancer reaper to do the LS, and there have been a couple of fights that they actually made much harder. (I recall one fight with Aurene, I had to wait until they were all dead before I could win the fight.) Great for open world stuff, questionable when fight mechanics get odd, and I doubt anyone would want to see one on a raid.Honestly, I think the game can use a couple of flawed "easy mode" builds like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Minion Master has been strong since launch. Necromancer as a whole is probably the easiest and most beginner friendly class of all 9.Is it very strong in open world? Yes. Does that mean anything as far as balance is concerned? It's open world, so no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojo.6140 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 @Hyperlynx.6429 said:I can't see any good reason to play anything elseBut you already gave an answer to that. The guardian with the more challenging gameplay is more fun for you to play, so that should be enough reason to play that rather than the minion-necro, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Minion master is like the ranger's infamous 'bear bow' build - it's very simple and fairly effective in open-world content but for anything requiring more precision or tactics you'll run into problems, and if you're used to only playing minion master (or bear bow) you may struggle to adjust.As for why you'd play anything else in content where it does work I think @Jojo.6140 answered that effectively - you enjoy the challenge you get from other professions/builds. It's a game, the point is to have fun, not to get it over with as quickly and easily as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phs.6089 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Get into t4 and try to outdps something that isn't a full support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny.7260 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Minionmancer, the meta of open world; Reaper, the meta of nothing high-end; Scourge, the resbot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Congratulations! You have just seen for yourself how capable Necro is in open world PvE. Minions hold aggro and the dps-skill curve for MM is fairly flat and not low. With patience you can solo many champions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzurag.7506 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Well, try to kill some stronger enemies , other than the usual trash that´s walking around the map.For example, try HoT´s heropoints, there your minions won´t do anything.Anyway, necro has always been strong in the open world, reaper in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warscythes.9307 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 @Arzurag.7506 said:Well, try to kill some stronger enemies , other than the usual trash that´s walking around the map.For example, try HoT´s heropoints, there your minions won´t do anything.Anyway, necro has always been strong in the open world, reaper in general.Actually the minions do quite a bit because the AI targets them first. It allow you to solo balthz hero point fairly easily with a dagger. The only place where it an active hindrance would be that vampire point on the ship where it steals life on hit.That being said, is open world. Nobody really cares about open world balance as the content is easy enough so that you can play whatever you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 @Arzurag.7506 said:Well, try to kill some stronger enemies , other than the usual trash that´s walking around the map.For example, try HoT´s heropoints, there your minions won´t do anything.Anyway, necro has always been strong in the open world, reaper in general.Well you're not really supposed to solo group content, lol. That's why it's group content. That said I just went into tangled depths with my minion master/blood magi reaper tank to see if anything changed, did some of the easier to access to hero points. The zintl inquisitor was fairly easy to kill (the more mobs the better as you can reach ~15 minions), the chak blitzer was even easier but the stupid mordrem sniper killed me when he was 3% hp because the minions kept bugging him right onto the edge so I couldnt get bloody close, but I needed to with all melee lol.Note that I'm not a necro main - I barely even play the darn thing because I do 90% WvW as a roamer. Others are so much better. But in PvE it always has been and most likely will always be one of the easier builds to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 @Arzurag.7506 said:Well, try to kill some stronger enemies , other than the usual trash that´s walking around the map.For example, try HoT´s heropoints, there your minions won´t do anything.Anyway, necro has always been strong in the open world, reaper in general.Dude, that is so wrong it is actually funny.I needed to finish the HoT maps to get gifts for a legendary weapon on my engineer. I walked into the maps with my minionmancer.Mind you, my necro isn't even fully exotic, still using quite some rare tier equipment. And the stats are totally random, too. Not full berserker or anything, just threw the equip with the highest level on her.And I had absolutely no problem doing these hero points on my own. Minionmancer just has so insanely high survivability in open world, if you are dying then you are doing something insanely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxnecroxx.4039 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 @"Hyperlynx.6429" said:Well, for the first time in my 3? 4? years playing this game, I finally decided to try out a minions necromancer. Berserker gear, all skill involving minions, axe and dagger.I'm now face-stomping absolutely everything, with no effort required at all. I quite liked Lake Doric, playing as a guardian with mace/shield+hammer - it's a real challenge, and I enjoy that. But my necro is tearing through Lake Doric like tissue paper.It's totally, utterly game-breaking. I can't see any good reason to play anything else, it's just so overpowered. I really think it needs to be nerfed heavily. It's not just better than any other build, it's an order of magnitude better. There's no comparison. It's like all other builds are playing with a handicap by comparison, and that feels really weird.necromancer OP in PVE? give me a second herethose are 2 words that never belong together unless there is a NOT between them. necro is the worst class for PVE period. Open world it is so ez to face roll with 99% of builds. but in PVE? now that is a funny joke. necro overall + specs needs major buffs or PVE needs heavy changes to accomendate necro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Xxnecroxx.4039 said:@"Hyperlynx.6429" said:Well, for the first time in my 3? 4? years playing this game, I finally decided to try out a minions necromancer. Berserker gear, all skill involving minions, axe and dagger.I'm now face-stomping absolutely everything, with no effort required at all. I quite liked Lake Doric, playing as a guardian with mace/shield+hammer - it's a real challenge, and I enjoy that. But my necro is tearing through Lake Doric like tissue paper.It's totally, utterly game-breaking. I can't see any good reason to play anything else, it's just so overpowered. I really think it needs to be nerfed heavily. It's not just better than any other build, it's an order of magnitude better. There's no comparison. It's like all other builds are playing with a handicap by comparison, and that feels really weird.necromancer OP in PVE? give me a second herethose are 2 words that never belong together unless there is a NOT between them. necro is the worst class for PVE period. Open world it is so ez to face roll with 99% of builds. but in PVE? now that is a funny joke. necro overall + specs needs major buffs or PVE needs heavy changes to accomendate necroOP is the wrong term, but it is absolutely fool proof. There is no way you are going to die as a minionmancer in PVE, doesn't matter how bad your reflexes are.You can get a constant stream of healing from your minions, they are cleansing all conditions from you permanently and applying them to the enemies instead. And even if you somehow manage to get low on health, you still have your death shroud to face tank even more.It is not OP, but it's probably the best build to passively carry even the worst player in existence for open world content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xxnecroxx.4039 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Kodama.6453 said:@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:@"Hyperlynx.6429" said:Well, for the first time in my 3? 4? years playing this game, I finally decided to try out a minions necromancer. Berserker gear, all skill involving minions, axe and dagger.I'm now face-stomping absolutely everything, with no effort required at all. I quite liked Lake Doric, playing as a guardian with mace/shield+hammer - it's a real challenge, and I enjoy that. But my necro is tearing through Lake Doric like tissue paper.It's totally, utterly game-breaking. I can't see any good reason to play anything else, it's just so overpowered. I really think it needs to be nerfed heavily. It's not just better than any other build, it's an order of magnitude better. There's no comparison. It's like all other builds are playing with a handicap by comparison, and that feels really weird.necromancer OP in PVE? give me a second herethose are 2 words that never belong together unless there is a NOT between them. necro is the worst class for PVE period. Open world it is so ez to face roll with 99% of builds. but in PVE? now that is a funny joke. necro overall + specs needs major buffs or PVE needs heavy changes to accomendate necroOP is the wrong term, but it is absolutely fool proof. There is no way you are going to die as a minionmancer in PVE, doesn't matter how bad your reflexes are.You can get a constant stream of healing from your minions, they are cleansing all conditions from you permanently and applying them to the enemies instead. And even if you somehow manage to get low on health, you still have your death shroud to face tank even more.It is not OP, but it's probably the best build to passively carry even the worst player in existence for open world content.yeah, mainly because the minions will do most of the damage and the enemies target the minions before the player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Kodama.6453 said:OP is the wrong term, but it is absolutely fool proof. There is no way you are going to die as a minionmancer in PVE, doesn't matter how bad your reflexes are.You can get a constant stream of healing from your minions, they are cleansing all conditions from you permanently and applying them to the enemies instead. And even if you somehow manage to get low on health, you still have your death shroud to face tank even more.It is not OP, but it's probably the best build to passively carry even the worst player in existence for open world content.While I won't disagree with the bold statement that minions are adapted to open world PvE, there is no denying that a minion master is a pure defensive build and that any profession in pure defensive build can face tank open world PvE. An elementalist focusing on earth won't even feel mobs, an engineer can build defensively in quite a few way, a guardian specializing in symbols is just a joke to play in open world PvE (to be honest it's so strong that it become easily boring), It's probably unnecessary to talk about mesmer's and ranger's ability to soak damage while dealing damage on their own, thief can breeze through OW PvE just by using dagger AA and Pistol#5 and warrior are sustain beasts.That is to point out that when you build defensively, whatever the profession, you'll end up being very durable in open world PvE. The fact that those builds aren't popular don't change the fact that you can use them nonetheless. Minionmancers are far from being an exception in this game, they just fullfill better a common fantasy that a necromancer should control minions and thus are a lot easier to come by/accept for PvE casual players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Dadnir.5038 said:@Kodama.6453 said:OP is the wrong term, but it is absolutely fool proof. There is no way you are going to die as a minionmancer in PVE, doesn't matter how bad your reflexes are.You can get a constant stream of healing from your minions, they are cleansing all conditions from you permanently and applying them to the enemies instead. And even if you somehow manage to get low on health, you still have your death shroud to face tank even more.It is not OP, but it's probably the best build to passively carry even the worst player in existence for open world content.While I won't disagree with the bold statement that minions are adapted to open world PvE, there is no denying that a minion master is a pure defensive build and that any profession in pure defensive build can face tank open world PvE. An elementalist focusing on earth won't even feel mobs, an engineer can build defensively in quite a few way, a guardian specializing in symbols is just a joke to play in open world PvE (to be honest it's so strong that it become easily boring), It's probably unnecessary to talk about mesmer's and ranger's ability to soak damage while dealing damage on their own, thief can breeze through OW PvE just by using dagger AA and Pistol#5 and warrior are sustain beasts.That is to point out that when you build defensively, whatever the profession, you'll end up being very durable in open world PvE. The fact that those builds aren't popular don't change the fact that you can use them nonetheless. Minionmancers are far from being an exception in this game, they just fullfill better a common fantasy that a necromancer should control minions and thus are a lot easier to come by/accept for PvE casual players.True, but you are leaving out that most of these builds, even when run defensive, require way more attention compared to a minion master.The ease of use for MM is the fact that 2/3rds of your build are autopilot and require no attention. That alone separates this build from any other. It is the most beginner friendly build and requires nearly no attention for open world. Are there stronger builds for open world? Sure. Do any of them require less attention? No (well maybe thief with pistol offhand for pistol 5 perma blind on non dredge in vanilla Tyria, but even that requires reactivation of pistol 5). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Cyninja.2954 said:@Dadnir.5038 said:@Kodama.6453 said:OP is the wrong term, but it is absolutely fool proof. There is no way you are going to die as a minionmancer in PVE, doesn't matter how bad your reflexes are.You can get a constant stream of healing from your minions, they are cleansing all conditions from you permanently and applying them to the enemies instead. And even if you somehow manage to get low on health, you still have your death shroud to face tank even more.It is not OP, but it's probably the best build to passively carry even the worst player in existence for open world content.While I won't disagree with the bold statement that minions are adapted to open world PvE, there is no denying that a minion master is a pure defensive build and that any profession in pure defensive build can face tank open world PvE. An elementalist focusing on earth won't even feel mobs, an engineer can build defensively in quite a few way, a guardian specializing in symbols is just a joke to play in open world PvE (to be honest it's so strong that it become easily boring), It's probably unnecessary to talk about mesmer's and ranger's ability to soak damage while dealing damage on their own, thief can breeze through OW PvE just by using dagger AA and Pistol#5 and warrior are sustain beasts.That is to point out that when you build defensively, whatever the profession, you'll end up being very durable in open world PvE. The fact that those builds aren't popular don't change the fact that you can use them nonetheless. Minionmancers are far from being an exception in this game, they just fullfill better a common fantasy that a necromancer should control minions and thus are a lot easier to come by/accept for PvE casual players.True, but you are leaving out that most of these builds, even when run defensive, require way more attention compared to a minion master.The ease of use for MM is the fact that 2/3rds of your build are autopilot and require no attention. That alone separates this build from any other. It is the most beginner friendly build and requires nearly no attention for open world. Are there stronger builds for open world? Sure. Do any of them require less attention? No (well maybe thief with pistol offhand for pistol 5 perma blind on non dredge in vanilla Tyria, but even that requires reactivation of pistol 5).Every build is different and also compared to who? if anything you shouldn't be complaining since chronomancer is the most op spec I have ever played. On chronomancer you can spam aegis and survive forever and also use invulns to survive mass armies of enemies no other class can. Necro is already very vulnerable, and pets aren't even that great besides in open world. On my chrono, I was doing silver wastes and managed to do group quests with sword/shield and managed to outlive my other classes by bouncing around and invuln.Before necro ever receives anymore nerfs, other classes have to be nerfed first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Axl.8924 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@Dadnir.5038 said:@Kodama.6453 said:OP is the wrong term, but it is absolutely fool proof. There is no way you are going to die as a minionmancer in PVE, doesn't matter how bad your reflexes are.You can get a constant stream of healing from your minions, they are cleansing all conditions from you permanently and applying them to the enemies instead. And even if you somehow manage to get low on health, you still have your death shroud to face tank even more.It is not OP, but it's probably the best build to passively carry even the worst player in existence for open world content.While I won't disagree with the bold statement that minions are adapted to open world PvE, there is no denying that a minion master is a pure defensive build and that any profession in pure defensive build can face tank open world PvE. An elementalist focusing on earth won't even feel mobs, an engineer can build defensively in quite a few way, a guardian specializing in symbols is just a joke to play in open world PvE (to be honest it's so strong that it become easily boring), It's probably unnecessary to talk about mesmer's and ranger's ability to soak damage while dealing damage on their own, thief can breeze through OW PvE just by using dagger AA and Pistol#5 and warrior are sustain beasts.That is to point out that when you build defensively, whatever the profession, you'll end up being very durable in open world PvE. The fact that those builds aren't popular don't change the fact that you can use them nonetheless. Minionmancers are far from being an exception in this game, they just fullfill better a common fantasy that a necromancer should control minions and thus are a lot easier to come by/accept for PvE casual players.True, but you are leaving out that most of these builds, even when run defensive, require way more attention compared to a minion master.The ease of use for MM is the fact that 2/3rds of your build are autopilot and require no attention. That alone separates this build from any other. It is the most beginner friendly build and requires nearly no attention for open world. Are there stronger builds for open world? Sure. Do any of them require less attention? No (well maybe thief with pistol offhand for pistol 5 perma blind on non dredge in vanilla Tyria, but even that requires reactivation of pistol 5).Every build is different and also compared to who? if anything you shouldn't be complaining since chronomancer is the most op spec I have ever played. On chronomancer you can spam aegis and survive forever and also use invulns to survive mass armies of enemies no other class can. Necro is already very vulnerable, and pets aren't even that great besides in open world. On my chrono, I was doing silver wastes and managed to do group quests with sword/shield and managed to outlive my other classes by bouncing around and invuln.Before necro ever receives anymore nerfs, other classes have to be nerfed first.I don't think that he was suggesting to nerf necromancer.Minionmancer might be an autopilot build for open world PvE, but that does not justify nerfs. OP is asking for nerfs, but I don't understand why. He says it is gamebreaking how strong minionmancer is in open world PvE, but.... how? Does anyone actually care that you can solo stuff like that as a minionmancer? I know that necro is capable of that stuff, yet I don't think we need to nerf them just because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Kodama.6453 said:@Axl.8924 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@Dadnir.5038 said:@Kodama.6453 said:OP is the wrong term, but it is absolutely fool proof. There is no way you are going to die as a minionmancer in PVE, doesn't matter how bad your reflexes are.You can get a constant stream of healing from your minions, they are cleansing all conditions from you permanently and applying them to the enemies instead. And even if you somehow manage to get low on health, you still have your death shroud to face tank even more.It is not OP, but it's probably the best build to passively carry even the worst player in existence for open world content.While I won't disagree with the bold statement that minions are adapted to open world PvE, there is no denying that a minion master is a pure defensive build and that any profession in pure defensive build can face tank open world PvE. An elementalist focusing on earth won't even feel mobs, an engineer can build defensively in quite a few way, a guardian specializing in symbols is just a joke to play in open world PvE (to be honest it's so strong that it become easily boring), It's probably unnecessary to talk about mesmer's and ranger's ability to soak damage while dealing damage on their own, thief can breeze through OW PvE just by using dagger AA and Pistol#5 and warrior are sustain beasts.That is to point out that when you build defensively, whatever the profession, you'll end up being very durable in open world PvE. The fact that those builds aren't popular don't change the fact that you can use them nonetheless. Minionmancers are far from being an exception in this game, they just fullfill better a common fantasy that a necromancer should control minions and thus are a lot easier to come by/accept for PvE casual players.True, but you are leaving out that most of these builds, even when run defensive, require way more attention compared to a minion master.The ease of use for MM is the fact that 2/3rds of your build are autopilot and require no attention. That alone separates this build from any other. It is the most beginner friendly build and requires nearly no attention for open world. Are there stronger builds for open world? Sure. Do any of them require less attention? No (well maybe thief with pistol offhand for pistol 5 perma blind on non dredge in vanilla Tyria, but even that requires reactivation of pistol 5).Every build is different and also compared to who? if anything you shouldn't be complaining since chronomancer is the most op spec I have ever played. On chronomancer you can spam aegis and survive forever and also use invulns to survive mass armies of enemies no other class can. Necro is already very vulnerable, and pets aren't even that great besides in open world. On my chrono, I was doing silver wastes and managed to do group quests with sword/shield and managed to outlive my other classes by bouncing around and invuln.Before necro ever receives anymore nerfs, other classes have to be nerfed first.I don't think that he was suggesting to nerf necromancer.Minionmancer might be an autopilot build for open world PvE, but that does not justify nerfs. OP is asking for nerfs, but I don't understand why. He says it is gamebreaking how strong minionmancer is in open world PvE, but.... how? Does anyone actually care that you can solo stuff like that as a minionmancer? I know that necro is capable of that stuff, yet I don't think we need to nerf them just because of that.The problem is, just because its beginner friendly don't mean it shouldn't be efficient. It sounds as if he wants minions to be inneficient since it is tanky. Other builds also have some very beginner friendly stuff. Heck im finding chronomancer to not be that hard, and I haven't played that long. And I think what is said that you can be efficient with most classes probably true if you put enough time. This sounds like he wants something equivalent to the hybrid tax in wow which Blizzard got rid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Axl.8924 said:@Kodama.6453 said:@Axl.8924 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@Dadnir.5038 said:@Kodama.6453 said:OP is the wrong term, but it is absolutely fool proof. There is no way you are going to die as a minionmancer in PVE, doesn't matter how bad your reflexes are.You can get a constant stream of healing from your minions, they are cleansing all conditions from you permanently and applying them to the enemies instead. And even if you somehow manage to get low on health, you still have your death shroud to face tank even more.It is not OP, but it's probably the best build to passively carry even the worst player in existence for open world content.While I won't disagree with the bold statement that minions are adapted to open world PvE, there is no denying that a minion master is a pure defensive build and that any profession in pure defensive build can face tank open world PvE. An elementalist focusing on earth won't even feel mobs, an engineer can build defensively in quite a few way, a guardian specializing in symbols is just a joke to play in open world PvE (to be honest it's so strong that it become easily boring), It's probably unnecessary to talk about mesmer's and ranger's ability to soak damage while dealing damage on their own, thief can breeze through OW PvE just by using dagger AA and Pistol#5 and warrior are sustain beasts.That is to point out that when you build defensively, whatever the profession, you'll end up being very durable in open world PvE. The fact that those builds aren't popular don't change the fact that you can use them nonetheless. Minionmancers are far from being an exception in this game, they just fullfill better a common fantasy that a necromancer should control minions and thus are a lot easier to come by/accept for PvE casual players.True, but you are leaving out that most of these builds, even when run defensive, require way more attention compared to a minion master.The ease of use for MM is the fact that 2/3rds of your build are autopilot and require no attention. That alone separates this build from any other. It is the most beginner friendly build and requires nearly no attention for open world. Are there stronger builds for open world? Sure. Do any of them require less attention? No (well maybe thief with pistol offhand for pistol 5 perma blind on non dredge in vanilla Tyria, but even that requires reactivation of pistol 5).Every build is different and also compared to who? if anything you shouldn't be complaining since chronomancer is the most op spec I have ever played. On chronomancer you can spam aegis and survive forever and also use invulns to survive mass armies of enemies no other class can. Necro is already very vulnerable, and pets aren't even that great besides in open world. On my chrono, I was doing silver wastes and managed to do group quests with sword/shield and managed to outlive my other classes by bouncing around and invuln.Before necro ever receives anymore nerfs, other classes have to be nerfed first.I don't think that he was suggesting to nerf necromancer.Minionmancer might be an autopilot build for open world PvE, but that does not justify nerfs. OP is asking for nerfs, but I don't understand why. He says it is gamebreaking how strong minionmancer is in open world PvE, but.... how? Does anyone actually care that you can solo stuff like that as a minionmancer? I know that necro is capable of that stuff, yet I don't think we need to nerf them just because of that.The problem is, just because its beginner friendly don't mean it shouldn't be efficient. It sounds as if he wants minions to be inneficient since it is tanky. Other builds also have some very beginner friendly stuff. Heck im finding chronomancer to not be that hard, and I haven't played that long. And I think what is said that you can be efficient with most classes probably true if you put enough time. This sounds like he wants something equivalent to the hybrid tax in wow which Blizzard got rid of...... read what I have been writing so far.Minion Master necromancer is fine. It's not efficient, it's not overpowered, it's simply the most accessible spec for people who are new to the game. Unless I have stated something untrue, how is a build which relies 70% on AI and pets and no movement in any way compare-able to any other class or build in this game?Maybe take 5 minutes before putting on the:"oh my god, a different class than mine icon has entered my main classes forum". That said, I have 3 necromancers myself, two of which are full ascended geared with multiple builds for both pve and wvw. Want me to change my forum avatar so you feel less hostile? Show me where I was advocating for necromancer nerfs please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Cyninja.2954 said:@Axl.8924 said:@Kodama.6453 said:@Axl.8924 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@Dadnir.5038 said:@Kodama.6453 said:OP is the wrong term, but it is absolutely fool proof. There is no way you are going to die as a minionmancer in PVE, doesn't matter how bad your reflexes are.You can get a constant stream of healing from your minions, they are cleansing all conditions from you permanently and applying them to the enemies instead. And even if you somehow manage to get low on health, you still have your death shroud to face tank even more.It is not OP, but it's probably the best build to passively carry even the worst player in existence for open world content.While I won't disagree with the bold statement that minions are adapted to open world PvE, there is no denying that a minion master is a pure defensive build and that any profession in pure defensive build can face tank open world PvE. An elementalist focusing on earth won't even feel mobs, an engineer can build defensively in quite a few way, a guardian specializing in symbols is just a joke to play in open world PvE (to be honest it's so strong that it become easily boring), It's probably unnecessary to talk about mesmer's and ranger's ability to soak damage while dealing damage on their own, thief can breeze through OW PvE just by using dagger AA and Pistol#5 and warrior are sustain beasts.That is to point out that when you build defensively, whatever the profession, you'll end up being very durable in open world PvE. The fact that those builds aren't popular don't change the fact that you can use them nonetheless. Minionmancers are far from being an exception in this game, they just fullfill better a common fantasy that a necromancer should control minions and thus are a lot easier to come by/accept for PvE casual players.True, but you are leaving out that most of these builds, even when run defensive, require way more attention compared to a minion master.The ease of use for MM is the fact that 2/3rds of your build are autopilot and require no attention. That alone separates this build from any other. It is the most beginner friendly build and requires nearly no attention for open world. Are there stronger builds for open world? Sure. Do any of them require less attention? No (well maybe thief with pistol offhand for pistol 5 perma blind on non dredge in vanilla Tyria, but even that requires reactivation of pistol 5).Every build is different and also compared to who? if anything you shouldn't be complaining since chronomancer is the most op spec I have ever played. On chronomancer you can spam aegis and survive forever and also use invulns to survive mass armies of enemies no other class can. Necro is already very vulnerable, and pets aren't even that great besides in open world. On my chrono, I was doing silver wastes and managed to do group quests with sword/shield and managed to outlive my other classes by bouncing around and invuln.Before necro ever receives anymore nerfs, other classes have to be nerfed first.I don't think that he was suggesting to nerf necromancer.Minionmancer might be an autopilot build for open world PvE, but that does not justify nerfs. OP is asking for nerfs, but I don't understand why. He says it is gamebreaking how strong minionmancer is in open world PvE, but.... how? Does anyone actually care that you can solo stuff like that as a minionmancer? I know that necro is capable of that stuff, yet I don't think we need to nerf them just because of that.The problem is, just because its beginner friendly don't mean it shouldn't be efficient. It sounds as if he wants minions to be inneficient since it is tanky. Other builds also have some very beginner friendly stuff. Heck im finding chronomancer to not be that hard, and I haven't played that long. And I think what is said that you can be efficient with most classes probably true if you put enough time. This sounds like he wants something equivalent to the hybrid tax in wow which Blizzard got rid of...... read what I have been writing so far.Minion Master necromancer is fine. It's not efficient, it's not overpowered, it's simply the most accessible spec for people who are new to the game. Unless I have stated something untrue, how is a build which relies 70% on AI and pets and no movement in any way compare-able to any other class or build in this game?Maybe take 5 minutes before putting on the:"oh my god, a different class than mine icon has entered my main classes forum". That said, I have 3 necromancers myself, two of which are full ascended geared with multiple builds for both pve and wvw. Want me to change my forum avatar so you feel less hostile? Show me where I was advocating for necromancer nerfs please.I did read what you said, and you made it sound like a class that has little to no mobility and is kinda forced to tank because of limited mobility, should not be tanky or do dmg on pet.True, but you are leaving out that most of these builds, even when run defensive, require way more attention compared to a minion master.The ease of use for MM is the fact that 2/3rds of your build are autopilot and require no attention. That alone separates this build from any other. It is the most beginner friendly build and requires nearly no attention for open world. Are there stronger builds for open world? Sure. Do any of them require less attention? No (well maybe thief with pistol offhand for pistol 5 perma blind on non dredge in vanilla Tyria, but even that requires reactivation of pistol 5).That's the one I read, and you make it sound that way, but chronomancer spamming aegis and invulns and other stuff can be pretty mindless too. Necros cannot have mobility because I dunno necros seem to be built around being slow and sluggish and spamming aoes in pvp and being babysat, and shroud gives us some advantage.If you aren't complaining about dmg of pet and its defensive, and you don't want necro nerfed, what is your point exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Axl.8924 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@Axl.8924 said:@Kodama.6453 said:@Axl.8924 said:@Cyninja.2954 said:@Dadnir.5038 said:@Kodama.6453 said:OP is the wrong term, but it is absolutely fool proof. There is no way you are going to die as a minionmancer in PVE, doesn't matter how bad your reflexes are.You can get a constant stream of healing from your minions, they are cleansing all conditions from you permanently and applying them to the enemies instead. And even if you somehow manage to get low on health, you still have your death shroud to face tank even more.It is not OP, but it's probably the best build to passively carry even the worst player in existence for open world content.While I won't disagree with the bold statement that minions are adapted to open world PvE, there is no denying that a minion master is a pure defensive build and that any profession in pure defensive build can face tank open world PvE. An elementalist focusing on earth won't even feel mobs, an engineer can build defensively in quite a few way, a guardian specializing in symbols is just a joke to play in open world PvE (to be honest it's so strong that it become easily boring), It's probably unnecessary to talk about mesmer's and ranger's ability to soak damage while dealing damage on their own, thief can breeze through OW PvE just by using dagger AA and Pistol#5 and warrior are sustain beasts.That is to point out that when you build defensively, whatever the profession, you'll end up being very durable in open world PvE. The fact that those builds aren't popular don't change the fact that you can use them nonetheless. Minionmancers are far from being an exception in this game, they just fullfill better a common fantasy that a necromancer should control minions and thus are a lot easier to come by/accept for PvE casual players.True, but you are leaving out that most of these builds, even when run defensive, require way more attention compared to a minion master.The ease of use for MM is the fact that 2/3rds of your build are autopilot and require no attention. That alone separates this build from any other. It is the most beginner friendly build and requires nearly no attention for open world. Are there stronger builds for open world? Sure. Do any of them require less attention? No (well maybe thief with pistol offhand for pistol 5 perma blind on non dredge in vanilla Tyria, but even that requires reactivation of pistol 5).Every build is different and also compared to who? if anything you shouldn't be complaining since chronomancer is the most op spec I have ever played. On chronomancer you can spam aegis and survive forever and also use invulns to survive mass armies of enemies no other class can. Necro is already very vulnerable, and pets aren't even that great besides in open world. On my chrono, I was doing silver wastes and managed to do group quests with sword/shield and managed to outlive my other classes by bouncing around and invuln.Before necro ever receives anymore nerfs, other classes have to be nerfed first.I don't think that he was suggesting to nerf necromancer.Minionmancer might be an autopilot build for open world PvE, but that does not justify nerfs. OP is asking for nerfs, but I don't understand why. He says it is gamebreaking how strong minionmancer is in open world PvE, but.... how? Does anyone actually care that you can solo stuff like that as a minionmancer? I know that necro is capable of that stuff, yet I don't think we need to nerf them just because of that.The problem is, just because its beginner friendly don't mean it shouldn't be efficient. It sounds as if he wants minions to be inneficient since it is tanky. Other builds also have some very beginner friendly stuff. Heck im finding chronomancer to not be that hard, and I haven't played that long. And I think what is said that you can be efficient with most classes probably true if you put enough time. This sounds like he wants something equivalent to the hybrid tax in wow which Blizzard got rid of...... read what I have been writing so far.Minion Master necromancer is fine. It's not efficient, it's not overpowered, it's simply the most accessible spec for people who are new to the game. Unless I have stated something untrue, how is a build which relies 70% on AI and pets and no movement in any way compare-able to any other class or build in this game?Maybe take 5 minutes before putting on the:"oh my god, a different class than mine icon has entered my main classes forum". That said, I have 3 necromancers myself, two of which are full ascended geared with multiple builds for both pve and wvw. Want me to change my forum avatar so you feel less hostile? Show me where I was advocating for necromancer nerfs please.I did read what you said, and you made it sound like a class that has little to no mobility and is kinda forced to tank because of limited mobility, should not be tanky or do dmg on pet.@Cyninja.2954 said:True, but you are leaving out that most of these builds, even when run defensive, require way more attention compared to a minion master.The ease of use for MM is the fact that 2/3rds of your build are autopilot and require no attention. That alone separates this build from any other. It is the most beginner friendly build and requires nearly no attention for open world. Are there stronger builds for open world? Sure. Do any of them require less attention? No (well maybe thief with pistol offhand for pistol 5 perma blind on non dredge in vanilla Tyria, but even that requires reactivation of pistol 5).That's the one I read, and you make it sound that way, but chronomancer spamming aegis and invulns and other stuff can be pretty mindless too. Necros cannot have mobility because I dunno necros seem to be built around being slow and sluggish and spamming aoes in pvp and being babysat, and shroud gives us some advantage.If you aren't complaining about dmg of pet and its defensive, and you don't want necro nerfed, what is your point exactly? Read what topic creator wrote, he is obviously new to the game. He is complaining that minion master necromancer is overpowered.I disagreed.I also disagreed that other builds are as simple or straightforward as Minion Master. That does not mean I consider it needs to get nerfed. Open world in general is of absolutely no concern balance wise. So to be clear: Minion Master is the easiest build out there for open world pve. That is not overpowered though and is based on the natural strengths of the necromancer and the classes design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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