Shield rework/Herald refocus — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Shield rework/Herald refocus

Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭
  • Please make shield more effective as it is the core weapon for the elite, It's a shame that its almost completely useless in its current form.
  • Turn the bubble heal into a mobile field, perhaps even make it effect those around you and increase the size to guardian level but with rev theme. Allow it to heal for all the damage absorbed and be an AOE push-back similar to how ventari's tablet works with a fusion of its basic theme of being a bastion for allies.
  • Take shield four the little traveling orb into something else, I like the idea of it being "Roar of the dragon" Or something which is an AoE burst of some sort. Something that makes shield a good choice while in melee. It could be based on what legend you are running (Mallyx causes conditions, shiro gives everyone tons of life-steal, Glint gives boons and so on.) Could also be a CC or CC break which would be good who knows.

Herald is a group support/tanky bruiser of sorts and I feel its weapon should reflect being such a thing. It should be somewhere between warrior and guardians shield and function with the same level of decent use. Right now its kitten and using it really doesn't give the player or those around them a benefit, Its a shame too as shields are thematic and I Feel like revenant could have some cool interactions with their shield. I don't like the idea of being forced to stand still and my off-hand being trash, It makes the elite spec feel cheaper because its not a viable option (Shortbow for Renegade is also in a sad state and has been.)

I like the idea of a trade off but the weapon should be at least viable so it gives more to taking the spec, because as of right now you see either Sword/Sword + Staff or Staff + Hammer which is not horrible but it kind of kills me to see the weapons that came with those specs be trash tier at best. Id love to run a Shield if it was useful, but it really makes me worthless in team fights when I could take Axe or sword as my off-hand and bring so much more to the table. (Don't nerf them, just bring shield up to their level and make it viable for team-play as well viable for use in some way shape or form.)

<1

Comments

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:
    If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

    -Ramsay Bolton

    Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

    -Ramsay Bolton

    Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

    There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

    -Ramsay Bolton

    Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

    There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

    They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

    -Ramsay Bolton

    Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

    There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

    They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

    coughchronomancercough

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

    -Ramsay Bolton

    Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

    There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

    They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

    coughchronomancercough

    Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is. The weapon is complete trash

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is.

    Are you too hearing a demonic laugh of devs in background after reading this sentence?

    Jokaurene

  • Scoobaniec.9561Scoobaniec.9561 Member ✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

    -Ramsay Bolton

    Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

    There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

    They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

    coughchronomancercough

    Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is. The weapon is complete trash

    You would be surprised. They just gutted Mallyx that was not even viable to begin with

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:
    If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

    -Ramsay Bolton

    Anet Balance team is to Ramsay Bolton, as Revenant is to __________.

    A. Sansa Stark
    B. Theon Greyjoy
    C. Roose Bolton
    D. Rickon Stark

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:

    Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is.

    Are you too hearing a demonic laugh of devs in background after reading this sentence?

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

    -Ramsay Bolton

    Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

    There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

    They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

    coughchronomancercough

    Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is. The weapon is complete trash

    You would be surprised. They just gutted Mallyx that was not even viable to begin with

    I mean shield isn't even really usable in any real form (Other than looks.) So unlike mallyx ruining it just means removing it; Which we know they won't do. Mallyx was a well working yet not fully viable legend and now it got gutted and turned to trash for "The lol's".

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:

    Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is.

    Are you too hearing a demonic laugh of devs in background after reading this sentence?

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

    -Ramsay Bolton

    Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

    There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

    They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

    coughchronomancercough

    Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is. The weapon is complete trash

    You would be surprised. They just gutted Mallyx that was not even viable to begin with

    I mean shield isn't even really usable in any real form (Other than looks.) So unlike mallyx ruining it just means removing it; Which we know they won't do. Mallyx was a well working yet not fully viable legend and now it got gutted and turned to trash for "The lol's".

    wrong shield can be somewhat efficient ifu know when to use it,

    The only thing Anet need to do are 2 things.. one or another:

    1- simply remove the root from shield, its the cheap and easy solution that can work.
    or
    2.- keep the root but make inc heal effec to allies as well, maybe a crystal shield to each affected players rather than a dome, and maybe this could root just for the cast but for its duration would allow Herald to move.

    For me these 2 changes would put shield at another total lvl..

    Note: i play zealots herald/ventari, i dont find issues using the shied besides skill 5, it has a very small niche of usage that actually needs to be improved, being the root the most issue.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:

    Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is.

    Are you too hearing a demonic laugh of devs in background after reading this sentence?

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

    -Ramsay Bolton

    Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

    There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

    They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

    coughchronomancercough

    Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is. The weapon is complete trash

    You would be surprised. They just gutted Mallyx that was not even viable to begin with

    I mean shield isn't even really usable in any real form (Other than looks.) So unlike mallyx ruining it just means removing it; Which we know they won't do. Mallyx was a well working yet not fully viable legend and now it got gutted and turned to trash for "The lol's".

    wrong shield can be somewhat efficient ifu know when to use it,

    The only thing Anet need to do are 2 things.. one or another:

    1- simply remove the root from shield, its the cheap and easy solution that can work.
    or
    2.- keep the root but make inc heal effec to allies as well, maybe a crystal shield to each affected players rather than a dome, and maybe this could root just for the cast but for its duration would allow Herald to move.

    For me these 2 changes would put shield at another total lvl..

    Note: i play zealots herald/ventari, i dont find issues using the shied besides skill 5, it has a very small niche of usage that actually needs to be improved, being the root the most issue.

    I mean thats great and all but it should be intrinsically linked to herald and should have more utility than it does; Its complete kitten and just because it "Could/can" work doesn't mean it doesn't feel horrible to use. It also doesn't mean its exempt from needing a rework. It's only two skills so its not like its too much work, literally making it so its more about protecting your party and has bigger pay-offs would be fine.

    You're all so afraid of change, I mean sure they botch like 90% of the balance they try to do but later on down the road it ends up fixing itself. I mean rev when it launched was complete kitten and hardly functioned after all the nerfs but we all still made it work. The issue is shield is pointless to take when there are other more interesting and powerful options to place in the position it holds. (Id never take shield over ax, not in its current form.)

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:

    Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is.

    Are you too hearing a demonic laugh of devs in background after reading this sentence?

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

    -Ramsay Bolton

    Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

    There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

    They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

    coughchronomancercough

    Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is. The weapon is complete trash

    You would be surprised. They just gutted Mallyx that was not even viable to begin with

    I mean shield isn't even really usable in any real form (Other than looks.) So unlike mallyx ruining it just means removing it; Which we know they won't do. Mallyx was a well working yet not fully viable legend and now it got gutted and turned to trash for "The lol's".

    wrong shield can be somewhat efficient ifu know when to use it,

    The only thing Anet need to do are 2 things.. one or another:

    1- simply remove the root from shield, its the cheap and easy solution that can work.
    or
    2.- keep the root but make inc heal effec to allies as well, maybe a crystal shield to each affected players rather than a dome, and maybe this could root just for the cast but for its duration would allow Herald to move.

    For me these 2 changes would put shield at another total lvl..

    Note: i play zealots herald/ventari, i dont find issues using the shied besides skill 5, it has a very small niche of usage that actually needs to be improved, being the root the most issue.

    I mean thats great and all but it should be intrinsically linked to herald and should have more utility than it does; Its complete kitten and just because it "Could/can" work doesn't mean it doesn't feel horrible to use. It also doesn't mean its exempt from needing a rework. It's only two skills so its not like its too much work, literally making it so its more about protecting your party and has bigger pay-offs would be fine.

    You're all so afraid of change, I mean sure they botch like 90% of the balance they try to do but later on down the road it ends up fixing itself. I mean rev when it launched was complete kitten and hardly functioned after all the nerfs but we all still made it work. The issue is shield is pointless to take when there are other more interesting and powerful options to place in the position it holds. (Id never take shield over ax, not in its current form.)

    Im not sayign shield should not be touched, its just shield is for defense and team support with shield skill 4, axe is offensive(and its more strong than i ever tough since i starter to use it, but its offensive not always u need offensive spam), i play both actually since i have 3 rev's each own has its own theme and way to play.

    I think shield 4 is okish dont need that to be changed or at least to much changed, but shield 5 it could get some QoL skill more in theme with the herald, like a said its usage if for defense and situation where u can use it very a very small niche moments.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:

    Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is.

    Are you too hearing a demonic laugh of devs in background after reading this sentence?

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    If you think this has a happy ending, you havn't been paying attention.

    -Ramsay Bolton

    Won't give up until they remove the class from the game~

    There are worse things than having your "class" removed. Just ask Reek...

    They can't do much worse than they already have, not unless they outright nerf it until its unplayable (We've been in that place once before.)

    coughchronomancercough

    Just do it then, I mean you can't make shield any worse than it is. The weapon is complete trash

    You would be surprised. They just gutted Mallyx that was not even viable to begin with

    I mean shield isn't even really usable in any real form (Other than looks.) So unlike mallyx ruining it just means removing it; Which we know they won't do. Mallyx was a well working yet not fully viable legend and now it got gutted and turned to trash for "The lol's".

    wrong shield can be somewhat efficient ifu know when to use it,

    The only thing Anet need to do are 2 things.. one or another:

    1- simply remove the root from shield, its the cheap and easy solution that can work.
    or
    2.- keep the root but make inc heal effec to allies as well, maybe a crystal shield to each affected players rather than a dome, and maybe this could root just for the cast but for its duration would allow Herald to move.

    For me these 2 changes would put shield at another total lvl..

    Note: i play zealots herald/ventari, i dont find issues using the shied besides skill 5, it has a very small niche of usage that actually needs to be improved, being the root the most issue.

    I mean thats great and all but it should be intrinsically linked to herald and should have more utility than it does; Its complete kitten and just because it "Could/can" work doesn't mean it doesn't feel horrible to use. It also doesn't mean its exempt from needing a rework. It's only two skills so its not like its too much work, literally making it so its more about protecting your party and has bigger pay-offs would be fine.

    You're all so afraid of change, I mean sure they botch like 90% of the balance they try to do but later on down the road it ends up fixing itself. I mean rev when it launched was complete kitten and hardly functioned after all the nerfs but we all still made it work. The issue is shield is pointless to take when there are other more interesting and powerful options to place in the position it holds. (Id never take shield over ax, not in its current form.)

    Im not sayign shield should not be touched, its just shield is for defense and team support with shield skill 4, axe is offensive(and its more strong than i ever tough since i starter to use it, but its offensive not always u need offensive spam), i play both actually since i have 3 rev's each own has its own theme and way to play.

    I think shield 4 is okish dont need that to be changed or at least to much changed, but shield 5 it could get some QoL skill more in theme with the herald, like a said its usage if for defense and situation where u can use it very a very small niche moments.

    Making shield 5 mobile, while effecting your team-mates would be fine. Increasing its heal and maybe making it pulse damage in retaliation each time you are hit could also be good making it more effective as an "Oh kitten button" I feel like shield 4 just needs to go, its dumb and could be so many cooler things such as like "Dragons Blast" Which is where you send forth a wave of flame that heals allies and damages enemies. Perhaps even peels conditions and heals based on the conditions it takes from you and allies, while also dishing out decent damage to those who get in your way.

    Or maybe "Dragons Roar" Where its a mass AoE cc/stun where you roar with the wrath of glint, sending out a shock-wave that knocks enemies prone? ( It could still offer what it does now just on a larger scale with more utility.) This whole venture is about trying to give the shield less niche, and more oomph so that way its utilized as well offers more to the table. Because outside of full support builds (This is limited to shield 4 because 5 doesn't scale worth a kitten anymore.) It kinda just doesn't have a place and needs more so it could fit into build diversity.

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    Wait ... herald has a shield ???

    And its the only offhand that looks good on rev imo (I hate axe/sword offhand - they look so awkward).

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    Wait ... herald has a shield ???

    And its the only offhand that looks good on rev imo (I hate axe/sword offhand - they look so awkward).

    This is true, I feel its more Rev needs work on idle animations and some effects while idle. As well carrying their weapon because as you said it feels odd and almost like its too close to warrior every class has unique stuff depending on their weapon. We kinda are melee-centric with most of our animations seemingly being borrowed from other sources; Example is why am I carrying my hammer two handed? Im just hurling it in spirit form at people and it could be cool if they used the idea of us simply carrying it in one hand, and not using the same animation we use for staff and that everyone else uses for hammer.

    If we are going to be limited with utilities, and weapons. Then let them at least look cool in our hands; Let the rev have some crazy stuff. For example if we ever get great-sword I will ONLY want balthazars animation because it looks cool. Hell I want scepter + Focus on rev so I can use binding of Ipos and have my dark caster, which clearly the necromancer will never be XD. Kidding aside ~ We are going in an okish direction... we just need more

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    Wait ... herald has a shield ???

    And its the only offhand that looks good on rev imo (I hate axe/sword offhand - they look so awkward).

    This is true, I feel its more Rev needs work on idle animations and some effects while idle. As well carrying their weapon because as you said it feels odd and almost like its too close to warrior every class has unique stuff depending on their weapon. We kinda are melee-centric with most of our animations seemingly being borrowed from other sources; Example is why am I carrying my hammer two handed? Im just hurling it in spirit form at people and it could be cool if they used the idea of us simply carrying it in one hand, and not using the same animation we use for staff and that everyone else uses for hammer.

    If we are going to be limited with utilities, and weapons. Then let them at least look cool in our hands; Let the rev have some crazy stuff. For example if we ever get great-sword I will ONLY want balthazars animation because it looks cool. Hell I want scepter + Focus on rev so I can use binding of Ipos and have my dark caster, which clearly the necromancer will never be XD. Kidding aside ~ We are going in an okish direction... we just need more

    Oh man. What I would do for Balthazar's GS animation.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2019

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    Wait ... herald has a shield ???

    And its the only offhand that looks good on rev imo (I hate axe/sword offhand - they look so awkward).

    i use mace/axe on my renegade/mally, yesterday i wanted to troll so i hop in that toon and was wiping groups of 3-4 players in a few seconds, its quite strong lol even hololames were having digestive issues.
    IT also has decent healing and vampirics capabilities to supoprt team, 50% condi damage reducing, some resisttence to group and personal.
    Made it a hybrid between power/heal/condi damage and some crit.

    Its by far awkward xD, i imagine it some wuxia characater that praises evil. (/runs away before the good sects arrive)
    Guys my shiro rev is waiting to receive a GS elite spec as well or daggers ninja :expressionless: but iw ould prefer GS that would make me buy the expantion right away lol..

    On topic.
    One thing we all agree, shield 5 has poor(almost no situation to be used) place in the gameplay, shield 4 needs improvements.

    Note: shield 5 on 1vs1 is self kill against most gimmicks due how heavy they hit with unblockables.
    ATM im only using it when im taking damage at range and i know its blockable damage to restore health and condi clease myself.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:

    @Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:
    Wait ... herald has a shield ???

    And its the only offhand that looks good on rev imo (I hate axe/sword offhand - they look so awkward).

    i use mace/axe on my renegade/mally, yesterday i wanted to troll so i hop in that toon and was wiping groups of 3-4 players in a few seconds, its quite strong lol even hololames were having digestive issues.
    IT also has decent healing and vampirics capabilities to supoprt team, 50% condi damage reducing, some resisttence to group and personal.
    Made it a hybrid between power/heal/condi damage and some crit.

    Its by far awkward xD, i imagine it some wuxia characater that praises evil. (/runs away before the good sects arrive)
    Guys my shiro rev is waiting to receive a GS elite spec as well or daggers ninja :expressionless: but iw ould prefer GS that would make me buy the expantion right away lol..

    On topic.
    One thing we all agree, shield 5 has poor(almost no situation to be used) place in the gameplay, shield 4 needs improvements.

    Note: shield 5 on 1vs1 is self kill against most gimmicks due how heavy they hit with unblockables.
    ATM im only using it when im taking damage at range and i know its blockable damage to restore health and condi clease myself.

    lmfao if only we had darker legends to go along with our need for "Darkness" tim curry aside....

    I hope that these skills do get some polish. Im afraid of what will happen as we move forward and they fall further behind, as more weapons come out and more reworks take place.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2019

    The reason why shield is useless the majority of the time is because nobody makes proper use of it's skills, other than skill 4 that could use a rework to be more effective and consistent because it occasionally fails and the hitbox/AoE is just clunky to work with. A wave like guardian shield 4 instead of a slow moving "unblockable" AoE that ends up deleted by Aegis, while keeping it's same stats.

    If you're not using any of those options here which are Mallyx/Ventari/Healing power with shield, you shouldn't use shield period, not even for the cleanses. Shining Aspects is better in that regard since the removal of the internal cooldown. When you use shield you are automatically more viable as a bruiser/support/sidenodder and maybe duelist if you pick your builds right.

    Saying that shield is down right useless is really underestimating it, it could be somewhat improved but it has it's niches that provide viable solutions.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2019

    @Shao.7236 said:
    The reason why shield is useless the majority of the time is because nobody makes proper use of it's skills,

    When you use shield you are automatically more viable as a bruiser/support/sidenodder and maybe duelist if you pick your builds right.

    Saying that shield is down right useless is really underestimating it, it could be somewhat improved but it has it's niches that provide viable solutions.

    Revenant have been proved in battle in countless times as useless as a bunker/holder, or in the role of a condi dps or bruiser. Not a sigle time (when ANet used to spent money in PvP tournaments has a team achieved anything employing a Revenant which weren't based around the power Herald build. Equaly, Revenants used in WvW guild vs guild scrims essentially turned around the power hammer build). Shield have been nothing buth trash for longer that half of the life of this class itself, so at this stage is very natural for any Rev player to entirely ignore the existence of the shield, for good reasons. Is a suicidal option which as a peak skill has a block that roots yourself for 3 seconds in a game full of unblockables. I mained a Guardian for years but didn't craft The Flameseeker because at the time Guard's shield was kitten (the focus was the Guardian's shield); then I crafted it for my Rev (because baseline HoT Rev shield was amazing) and in less than a year was stacking dust, whereas the Guardian shield became vastly improved... Oh the irony...

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    The reason why shield is useless the majority of the time is because nobody makes proper use of it's skills,

    When you use shield you are automatically more viable as a bruiser/support/sidenodder and maybe duelist if you pick your builds right.

    Saying that shield is down right useless is really underestimating it, it could be somewhat improved but it has it's niches that provide viable solutions.

    Revenant have been proved in battle in countless times as useless as a bunker/holder, or in the role of a condi dps or bruiser. Not a sigle time (when ANet used to spent money in PvP tournaments has a team achieved anything employing a Revenant which weren't based around the power Herald build. Equaly, Revenants used in WvW guild vs guild scrims essentially turned around the power hammer build. Shield have been nothing buth trash for longer that half of the life of this class itself, so at this stage is very natural for any Rev player to entirely ignore the existence of the shield, for good reasons. Is a suicidal option which as a peak skill has a block roots yourself for 3 seconds in a game full of unblockables. I mained a Guardian for years but didn't craft The Flameseeker because for years Guard's shield was kitten; then I crafted it for my Rev and in less than a year was stacking dust, whereas the Guardian shield became vastly improved... Oh the irony...

    Shield is carrying me up to platinum 2, I ain't complaining about it. Playerbase is too straight forward and not creative enough with Revenant options. That's all I can say.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What would you lot think of the shield in a pve role? From open world to raid/fractals.
    I had a second look at Shining aspects and it appears most interesting now for much needed sustain. Just a shame that Draconic Echo competes with Forceful Persistence when Herald Revenant pve damage already is too low to even think of giving it up.

  • LucianTheAngelic.7054LucianTheAngelic.7054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2019

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    Revenant have been proved in battle in countless times as useless as a bunker/holder, or in the role of a condi dps or bruiser. Not a sigle time (when ANet used to spent money in PvP tournaments has a team achieved anything employing a Revenant which weren't based around the power Herald build. Equaly, Revenants used in WvW guild vs guild scrims essentially turned around the power hammer build).

    Actually, Revenant had viable condi and power builds early on. Top tier teams utilized both power revenants and condi revenants on the same teams. So no, Revenant has been good as condi before. Back then we had enough sustain to be good at holding too, even on the raw condi or power builds. Hell, we had two viable versions of the power build back then too, one with paladin amulet and one with marauder. This was back during season 1 and somewhat 2 of the pro league.

    Also let’s not forget the short lived Ventari bunker or the fact that WvW guild groups actually utilized a lot of condi revs during HoT back when ball/push meta was a thing. Condi Rev helped rip boons, give unique buffs like ROTGD and provide resistance which was critical.

    Also if you don’t believe me about the top tier teams in the pro league using them, check this link from the Pro League Season 1 Finals. At about the 1min 30s mark you very clearly see a condi Revenant. Also both teams have them and I think both have 1 power Rev 1 Condi Rev. And Rank 55 And Team PZ were top tier teams, so it’s not like these were just nobodies playing in the finals using random builds.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    Revenant have been proved in battle in countless times as useless as a bunker/holder, or in the role of a condi dps or bruiser. Not a sigle time (when ANet used to spent money in PvP tournaments has a team achieved anything employing a Revenant which weren't based around the power Herald build. Equaly, Revenants used in WvW guild vs guild scrims essentially turned around the power hammer build).

    Actually, Revenant had viable condi and power builds early on. Top tier teams utilized both power revenants and condi revenants on the same teams. So no, Revenant has been good as condi before. Back then we had enough sustain to be good at holding too, even on the raw condi or power builds. Hell, we had two viable versions of the power build back then too, one with paladin amulet and one with marauder. This was back during season 1 and somewhat 2 of the pro league.

    Also let’s not forget the short lived Ventari bunker or the fact that WvW guild groups actually utilized a lot of condi revs during HoT back when ball/push meta was a thing. Condi Rev helped rip boons, give unique buffs like ROTGD and provide resistance which was critical.

    Also if you don’t believe me about the top tier teams in the pro league using them, check this link from the Pro League Season 1 Finals. At about the 1min 30s mark you very clearly see a condi Revenant. Also both teams have them and I think both have 1 power Rev 1 Condi Rev. And Rank 55 And Team PZ were top tier teams, so it’s not like these were just nobodies playing in the finals using random builds.

    but that is sort of the problem, why should it be limited to "Early on". Now its non-existent and that to me seems like bad game design~

  • LucianTheAngelic.7054LucianTheAngelic.7054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 1, 2019

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    Revenant have been proved in battle in countless times as useless as a bunker/holder, or in the role of a condi dps or bruiser. Not a sigle time (when ANet used to spent money in PvP tournaments has a team achieved anything employing a Revenant which weren't based around the power Herald build. Equaly, Revenants used in WvW guild vs guild scrims essentially turned around the power hammer build).

    Actually, Revenant had viable condi and power builds early on. Top tier teams utilized both power revenants and condi revenants on the same teams. So no, Revenant has been good as condi before. Back then we had enough sustain to be good at holding too, even on the raw condi or power builds. Hell, we had two viable versions of the power build back then too, one with paladin amulet and one with marauder. This was back during season 1 and somewhat 2 of the pro league.

    Also let’s not forget the short lived Ventari bunker or the fact that WvW guild groups actually utilized a lot of condi revs during HoT back when ball/push meta was a thing. Condi Rev helped rip boons, give unique buffs like ROTGD and provide resistance which was critical.

    Also if you don’t believe me about the top tier teams in the pro league using them, check this link from the Pro League Season 1 Finals. At about the 1min 30s mark you very clearly see a condi Revenant. Also both teams have them and I think both have 1 power Rev 1 Condi Rev. And Rank 55 And Team PZ were top tier teams, so it’s not like these were just nobodies playing in the finals using random builds.

    but that is sort of the problem, why should it be limited to "Early on". Now its non-existent and that to me seems like bad game design~

    I’m not saying it’s not a problem; my post history shows I clearly advocate for necessary buffs to underperforming aspects of Rev.

    What I am trying to point out with this is that giant generalizations about the profession like “power Rev has been our only top tier spec ever” aren’t helpful to the discussion because it ignores the actual reality of the profession’s history in an attempt to sensationalize and prove a point. Also past balance is still relevant to today’s balance since there are reasons those specs ended up getting nerfed, so understanding past balance and balance decisions can be helpful when providing suggestions

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    What I am trying to point out with this is that giant generalizations about the profession like “power Rev has been our only top tier spec ever” aren’t helpful to the discussion because it ignores the actual reality of the profession’s history in an attempt to sensationalize and prove a point. Also past balance is still relevant to today’s balance since there are reasons those specs ended up getting nerfed, so understanding past balance and balance decisions can be helpful when providing suggestions

    No. That video you posted is from March 2016, 3 years and 5 months ago, so you struggled to find meaningful examples of condi Revenant being any sort of relevant on recent times. Also, the pool of daily PvP players in GW2 at that date was several times larger than the numbers we have now. The fact that the amount of players is so low also explains why is so easy to reach platinum with joke builds (if wielded by good players). But if we were in the days of Rank 55, Orange Logo, Vermillion, The Civilized Gentleman, Abjured, Ez Pz, etc., at the peak of the ESL Pro League and the ANet big tournaments the mere thought of using anything bur power Herald would be just out of any mind. Condi rev was cornered and quartered after a few months post HoT, and since there the class didn't have a single high level competitive build outside of the progressively rigid and dull Shiro/Glint power build. The last expansion utterly failed to provide anything meaningful to the Revenant in terms of PvP. The main designer of the Rev (which no longer works in the company) didn't even took part in the Renegade design, and the current team is clueless about PvP mechanics.

  • LucianTheAngelic.7054LucianTheAngelic.7054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 2, 2019

    @Buran.3796 said:
    No. That video you posted is from March 2016, 3 years and 5 months ago, so you struggled to find meaningful examples of condi Revenant being any sort of relevant on recent times. Also, the pool of daily PvP players in GW2 at that date was several times larger than the numbers we have now. The fact that the amount of players is so low also explains why is so easy to reach platinum with joke builds (if wielded by good players). But if we were in the days of Rank 55, Orange Logo, Vermillion, The Civilized Gentleman, Abjured, Ez Pz, etc., at the peak of the ESL Pro League and the ANet big tournaments the mere thought of using anything bur power Herald would be just out of any mind. Condi rev was cornered and quartered after a few months post HoT, and since there the class didn't have a single high level competitive build outside of the progressively rigid and dull Shiro/Glint power build. The last expansion utterly failed to provide anything meaningful to the Revenant in terms of PvP. The main designer of the Rev (which no longer works in the company) didn't even took part in the Renegade design, and the current team is clueless about PvP mechanics.

    This is what I was responding to in your first post, which is why i quoted it in my post:

    "Revenant have been proved in battle in countless times as useless as a bunker/holder, or in the role of a condi dps or bruiser. Not a sigle time (when ANet used to spent money in PvP tournaments has a team achieved anything employing a Revenant which weren't based around the power Herald build. Equaly, Revenants used in WvW guild vs guild scrims essentially turned around the power hammer build). "

    The video I sent is direct proof, literal facts, that your statement of "not a single time when anet spent money on tournaments was anything but power rev viable" is false. Also NOWHERE in my reply does it say that Power Rev hasn't been the dominant version of Rev for MOST of its life. Your post also doesn't address, as mentioned, the fact that condi rev was viable and used in WvW at some points after it got nerfed in PvP and the fact that Ventari Bunker existed. Hell I can find videos of those too if you need, but I really don't feel like digging much further through youtube when you can google it yourself.

    My point is to just be mindful of overexaggerations as it doesn't help anyone's case.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:
    No. That video you posted is from March 2016, 3 years and 5 months ago, so you struggled to find meaningful examples of condi Revenant being any sort of relevant on recent times. Also, the pool of daily PvP players in GW2 at that date was several times larger than the numbers we have now. The fact that the amount of players is so low also explains why is so easy to reach platinum with joke builds (if wielded by good players). But if we were in the days of Rank 55, Orange Logo, Vermillion, The Civilized Gentleman, Abjured, Ez Pz, etc., at the peak of the ESL Pro League and the ANet big tournaments the mere thought of using anything bur power Herald would be just out of any mind. Condi rev was cornered and quartered after a few months post HoT, and since there the class didn't have a single high level competitive build outside of the progressively rigid and dull Shiro/Glint power build. The last expansion utterly failed to provide anything meaningful to the Revenant in terms of PvP. The main designer of the Rev (which no longer works in the company) didn't even took part in the Renegade design, and the current team is clueless about PvP mechanics.

    This is what I was responding to in your first post, which is why i quoted it in my post:

    "Revenant have been proved in battle in countless times as useless as a bunker/holder, or in the role of a condi dps or bruiser. Not a sigle time (when ANet used to spent money in PvP tournaments has a team achieved anything employing a Revenant which weren't based around the power Herald build. Equaly, Revenants used in WvW guild vs guild scrims essentially turned around the power hammer build). "

    The video I sent is direct proof, literal facts, that your statement of "not a single time when anet spent money on tournaments was anything but power rev viable" is false. Also NOWHERE in my reply does it say that Power Rev hasn't been the dominant version of Rev for MOST of its life. Your post also doesn't address, as mentioned, the fact that condi rev was viable and used in WvW at some points after it got nerfed in PvP and the fact that Ventari Bunker existed. Hell I can find videos of those too if you need, but I really don't feel like digging much further through youtube when you can google it yourself.

    My point is to just be mindful of overexaggerations as it doesn't help anyone's case.

    I agree with your points but looking back those builds should of never fallen off; We should be a class with versitlity at the very least considering we are locked into utilities. I mean I can't tell you how tiring it is that I Feel like I like tools on the class I love the most. Im tired of shiro, im tired of glint but by design of the current game if I want to be competitive I have to run them. Or at least one of them ~ Now the first thing people scream is "Well nerf it" but if we nerf power herald the rev falls off in any form of pvp period.

    Which is why I believe they haven't done it yet, is because they know if they do then rev will be dead in the water and either everyone will quit playing and move on or swap mains? Which would harm class diversity which is at this point seemingly what they are aiming at; However I believe the nerf will come once the reworks to aspects of rev are done and from how it seems now? Its not gonna go well either way. Condition rev is now horrible, mallyx is less fun and less impactful than he already was and the only one who got a good rework was ventari. Shiro has already taken some size-able hits since his rise to prominence; And people are screaming for nerfs and the gutting of this class because they don't understand how to counter it. Does power herald hit too hard? Maybe. But engineers, scourages, warriors, guardians, messmers all have builds that completely smash and need we talk about soulbeast?

    You're right what we need is a complete overhaul/rework just to get everything on the same page, but a lot of classes need that and I doubt its even something on the devs minds as it would be resource intensive with no way to monetize it.

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 2, 2019

    That's a lot of info you got there. But honestly, I agree. Revenant is a gorgeous concept that just didn't make it to the game full. It feels rushed, feels lacking. Whenever there is a change, even if a good one, it always seems like it could use something more because this just isn't enough.

    I knew Rev is going to be my fangirl profession once they announced HoT, and sadly, I can't find this kind of enjoyment in other classes anymore. So, I stick to Revenant even though I feel and know it's still in alpha mode. As for the additionals - Renegade is a perfect example of the worst design we can have in modern a MMO. It's a one big number-filler. Even though I love how the Revenant plays, the best thing for it to be truly complete would be a complete rework.
    Renegade used to have no weapon swap and was about to have a Dagger weapon.
    We just know for sure that it's not the class it was designed. There are issues going to be left unfixed forever.

    Perhaps, the Devs could focus n single class updates every patch rather than multi-class focus. This way, in 2 years we could have a fresh-made professions without these horrible designs. Ekhm, Mesmer Clones and Phantasm clutter.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    Not to defend current devs but do you really thing that Roy designed revenant properly?
    [...] Roy failed to desing the class and honestly idc if you or anyone else is going to disagree just bc he used to post on forum as PR strategy, promised a lot of stuff etc that never made it into the game since HoT release. [...] Rev is basically a loss cause at this point and its better to wait for gw3

    Of course erreyone agrees in that. Rev arrived lacking underwater skills and weapons, borrowing animations and skill icons from other classes and full of bugs... Everything in the class felt rushed and in competitive PvP it worked just because absurd numbers were put trying to compensate all those holes. But one thing is to lower those numbers and another entirely different to change the gameplay. Anyway, I wouldn't keep too much faith in a potential "GW3": when GW was released MMOs were money powerhouses, whereas in the last five years the genre did prove to be an elephant graveyard, and the cost of making a good MMO is so high that most of the developers end making monetization choices which ultimately hurt their own product. Looking at how reluctanct ANet have been about making nex expansions I don't think that they hve any interest in producing a new GW game.

    @Lucian: Ventari Bunker wasn't but a hard to kill tank with a lot of spammable cc, perfect to annoy a lot of people in not competitive games. Exactly as the Dragon Hunter trappers became very popular in low to mid tier matches. As happened with the DH, neither of them were popular in elite level teams, and as happened with the DH the Ventari build thank to the incesant moanings in the PvP forum that build was rapidily torpedoed and sinked in the abysal trench in which every Rev build ends (almost instantly). Being said that, never used it due I found the concept just nauseating, and Ventari was my lest favorite/least used legend until the arrival of Kalla.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @Scoobaniec.9561 said:

    Not to defend current devs but do you really thing that Roy designed revenant properly?
    [...] Roy failed to desing the class and honestly idc if you or anyone else is going to disagree just bc he used to post on forum as PR strategy, promised a lot of stuff etc that never made it into the game since HoT release. [...] Rev is basically a loss cause at this point and its better to wait for gw3

    Of course erreyone agrees in that. Rev arrived lacking underwater skills and weapons, borrowing animations and skill icons from other classes and full of bugs... Everything in the class felt rushed and in competitive PvP it worked just because absurd numbers were put trying to compensate all those holes. But one thing is to lower those numbers and another entirely different to change the gameplay. Anyway, I wouldn't keep too much faith in a potential "GW3": when GW was released MMOs were money powerhouses, whereas in the last five years the genre did prove to be an elephant graveyard, and the cost of making a good MMO is so high that most of the developers end making monetization choices which ultimately hurt their own product. Looking at how reluctanct ANet have been about making nex expansions I don't think that they hve any interest in producing a new GW game.

    @Lucian: Ventari Bunker wasn't but a hard to kill tank with a lot of spammable cc, perfect to annoy a lot of people in not competitive games. Exactly as the Dragon Hunter trappers became very popular in low to mid tier matches. As happened with the DH, neither of them were popular in elite level teams, and as happened with the DH the Ventari build thank to the incesant moanings in the PvP forum that build was rapidily torpedoed and sinked in the abysal trench in which every Rev build ends (almost instantly). Being said that, never used it due I found the concept just nauseating, and Ventari was my lest favorite/least used legend until the arrival of Kalla.

    On top of that there is no promise rev would appear in a hypothetical GW3; And if it didn't nor would I. I Don't trust A-net anymore with anything at all and that is honestly because GW2 has been a huge disappointment to me, at every turn. I Want to love it because its in tyria and I grew up playing GW1 but the magic isn't here, I dabble at best and try by I just don't have the motivation. Rev is the one class I like because of the theme (The idea of channeling legends and using powers otherwise not accessible by average people.) Its my main and that only makes it harder because I Feel like Im one of if not the class they regret making and hate right alongside necromancer; Who for all intents and purposes is the other. We are too dark for this game, and I suppose its just going toward the as I Say all the time in every post "We are not the target audience." I mean I rolled my eyes when infusions came out, I rolled my eyes with raids because I knew they wouldn't be too good and Im well aware that whatever they will announce probably won't be for me.

    I want it to be but I lack hope, and I don't play hardly at all Im just waiting. Clinging to the idea of loving this game; And wanting to love it but unsure if I will ever be able to because of the design choices and inability of the devs to even stick to one identity for this game.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    Ok, i didnt play gw1 but i rly like gw2, its combat system, classes even if some of them are in some areas cancer. WvW is so unique, best open world and scaling system so all areas are avaliable.Overall its great game. There is few things that we as comunity have to push and those are:
    -All classes are equal no lesserclasses and god classes
    -more build diversity(thats why push shield buff/rework), better traits and weapons
    -etc

    Because after all, all that content you play with those classes and have 1 build for all gamemodes is lame, having shield with almost no use is sad, shield could be great for new bunker rev, side node rev, support rev etc. Mainly for pvp because no need of defence in pve

    Jokaurene

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:
    Ok, i didnt play gw1 but i rly like gw2, its combat system, classes even if some of them are in some areas cancer. WvW is so unique, best open world and scaling system so all areas are avaliable.Overall its great game. There is few things that we as comunity have to push and those are:
    -All classes are equal no lesserclasses and god classes
    -more build diversity(thats why push shield buff/rework), better traits and weapons
    -etc

    Because after all, all that content you play with those classes and have 1 build for all gamemodes is lame, having shield with almost no use is sad, shield could be great for new bunker rev, side node rev, support rev etc. Mainly for pvp because no need of defence in pve

    The combat system is the only point you have, guild wars 1 every class was equal and you could make a hybrid of two classes so if one had tools you didn't you could adopt them and make unique builds. In guild wars 2 there are god builds, and there are classes who are not very good at all and builds that utterly suck; The majority of the game has a build that is good and the rest suck. To raid you must be min-maxed, to pvp you also have to be somewhat min-maxed and run more bursty gimmicky builds to succeed without challenge. When the game came out fights lasted longer and therefor we could enjoy the combat system to its fullest; Now however its so fast and the combat is over so quickly that its rare to get a long good fight.

    Guild wars 2 is not about devoting time, or learning. Its about quick drop in, drop out content with a theme park setting that has the skin of tyria on it. Its not as grindy (Yet) as some mmo's out there. But its not good in how it treats balance which is lack luster and a meme at this point; Rev has power herald for competitive play, the only reason that it has not been nerfed into the ground is because without it we wouldn't see as many revs.( The mallyx changes killed condi, its no where near as good and kalla is worthless in competitive.)

  • @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    The combat system is the only point you have, guild wars 1 every class was equal and you could make a hybrid of two classes so if one had tools you didn't you could adopt them and make unique builds. In guild wars 2 there are god builds, and there are classes who are not very good at all and builds that utterly suck; The majority of the game has a build that is good and the rest suck.

    You’re kidding yourself if you think GW1 didn’t have “god builds” or that certain classes weren’t inherently inferior or undesired at various points in the game’s life. Also there are plenty of builds that are “good” but not “meta” or “great” that don’t just flat out suck in gw2, but they’re ran less because theyre not as good. Doesn’t mean they flat out suck. And this same thing happened in gw1 as well, just like every game that has a diverse combat system that isn’t symmetrical like chess

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    The combat system is the only point you have, guild wars 1 every class was equal and you could make a hybrid of two classes so if one had tools you didn't you could adopt them and make unique builds. In guild wars 2 there are god builds, and there are classes who are not very good at all and builds that utterly suck; The majority of the game has a build that is good and the rest suck.

    You’re kidding yourself if you think GW1 didn’t have “god builds” or that certain classes weren’t inherently inferior or undesired at various points in the game’s life. Also there are plenty of builds that are “good” but not “meta” or “great” that don’t just flat out suck in gw2, but they’re ran less because theyre not as good. Doesn’t mean they flat out suck. And this same thing happened in gw1 as well, just like every game that has a diverse combat system that isn’t symmetrical like chess

    This game doesn't have diversity; I mean come on this game is so down on that its pathetic to the point where people WILL NOT RUN WITH YOU unless you run very specific builds. While yes it was there in the previous game, it was not as bad as it is here and that might just come down to design which I feel guild wars 1 was superior. I mean what did they add here? They took away the customization, they took away alot of the skills and baked them into traits which only a few are worth taking and then baked in weapon skills. They added dodge roll, and they added jumping and vertical movement and did a graphics upgrade but this is like the more basic variant of what we had before.

    This game doesn't even know what it wants to be half the time, and can't take itself serious which is why we have the condundrum we have now with people either leaving the game or it just not doing well compared to competition. Tons of people either don't know we exist, have biases against us(The game) or simply aren't interested because there is no Hook. We have nothing to drag new players in and when my friends ask me if its a good game to get into I look at it as a whole and tell them "not currently." Mainly because Im not sure how long this game will last, and I don't agree with alot of the direction their taking because honestly sometimes It baffles my mind why specific changes happen. (We had off-meta niche builds being nerfed, but here was soulbeast one shoting people. Mirages downing everything, and engies, firebrands and scourages dominating wvw and pvp.) They need to make a solid design decision and in this day and age; With how gaming is you can't afford to have builds that outright suck and shouldn't be used. That is poor game design, I could forgive the game if it was new but TON of these issues have persisted for years of the games life and these issues just are glaring and telling as to how little thought goes into stuff.

    Im not saying they suck, but I am saying that there are problems that should of been addressed long before now. And if we are going to turn this boat around something has to give; I Feel bad for all the people assuming the announcement on the 30th will be anything major. It will be living world, more of the same and then a "See ya soon" it won't be a large announcement. Faith, hope and belief are all gone and at this point I keep tabs as do many people it seems like hoping we get reworks and fixes as well other such things. But as of right now the design of the classes, the game and even the combat just... isn't fun like it used to be.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    Please lets get back to the shield issues.
    eziest fix right know should be increasing the speed of the orb on Shield 4

    Jokaurene

  • You and I had very different GW1 experiences then. For the sake of getting the thread back on topic and not about "build diversity in GW2" and "all of GW2's problems" probably best to drop this line of argumentation since I doubt either of us will agree on much in regards to these things

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    You and I had very different GW1 experiences then. For the sake of getting the thread back on topic and not about "build diversity in GW2" and "all of GW2's problems" probably best to drop this line of argumentation since I doubt either of us will agree on much in regards to these things

    I highly agree on that, because I haven't budged on these stances in a long time. However back to the topic at hand the shield for herald needs to be fixed; It needs an overhaul so that it can be competitive with other offhands and be chosen. Because right now its just so kitten weak compared to the others, and offers little compensation with its defense to warrant use.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    You and I had very different GW1 experiences then. For the sake of getting the thread back on topic and not about "build diversity in GW2" and "all of GW2's problems" probably best to drop this line of argumentation since I doubt either of us will agree on much in regards to these things

    I highly agree on that, because I haven't budged on these stances in a long time. However back to the topic at hand the shield for herald needs to be fixed; It needs an overhaul so that it can be competitive with other offhands and be chosen. Because right now its just so kitten weak compared to the others, and offers little compensation with its defense to warrant use.

    How weak is compared with warrior shield and guardian shield??

    Could shield from herald give more support options?
    Make shield 5 less greedy or at least damage target arround crystal hibertion with lots of Leeds and some damage every time get hitter while still. Providing selfish heals?

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    You and I had very different GW1 experiences then. For the sake of getting the thread back on topic and not about "build diversity in GW2" and "all of GW2's problems" probably best to drop this line of argumentation since I doubt either of us will agree on much in regards to these things

    I highly agree on that, because I haven't budged on these stances in a long time. However back to the topic at hand the shield for herald needs to be fixed; It needs an overhaul so that it can be competitive with other offhands and be chosen. Because right now its just so kitten weak compared to the others, and offers little compensation with its defense to warrant use.

    How weak is compared with warrior shield and guardian shield??

    Could shield from herald give more support options?
    Make shield 5 less greedy or at least damage target arround crystal hibertion with lots of Leeds and some damage every time get hitter while still. Providing selfish heals?

    I feel both warrior shield and guardian shield offers utility and group benefits. I mean warrior shield has a reflect tactic, which reflects range on block for skill 5 and the skill 4 is a knockdown cc. Pretty strong, Guardians bubble is now a mobile one like the spellbreaker bubble and skill 4 is a cleanse/heal depending on your build

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't hate shield like I used to and think they did a good job at making it a lot more attractive with the current trait, but I do think it could use some changes. Healing power makes the shield shine, and that's a niche that should remain. Glint is naturally a very boon-oriented legend, but that is an aspect of the e-spec that the shield doesn't do a great job at highlighting. I'd like that to be changed a bit.

    [Shield 4]
    -Change the functionality of it so it is a frontal cone. Simplify this unnecessarily clunky skill. It is extremely unreliable and suffers from major pathing issues.
    -Add 2 seconds of regeneration baseline. Especially with the removal of the regen traits from Salvation, the class needs a more diversified access to the boon.
    -Have it grant 2 seconds of boon extension. This is what the old trait used to do and although the trait was a double-edged sword due to the auto-proccing shield 5, the boon extension was a nice niche that the weapon offered.
    -Increase energy to 10. With the added effects, an increased cost is fair.

    [Shield 5]
    -In addition to its current effects, the skill now has a flipover skill that stops the block effect for you anad instead pulses the remaining healing in a PBAoE. This would not only be quite a potent heal (3 pulses max to allies), but would also allow for more group condi cleanse. This would be a significant buff to support Herald.

    Healing orbs are a mistake.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    I don't hate shield like I used to and think they did a good job at making it a lot more attractive with the current trait, but I do think it could use some changes. Healing power makes the shield shine, and that's a niche that should remain. Glint is naturally a very boon-oriented legend, but that is an aspect of the e-spec that the shield doesn't do a great job at highlighting. I'd like that to be changed a bit.

    [Shield 4]
    -Change the functionality of it so it is a frontal cone. Simplify this unnecessarily clunky skill. It is extremely unreliable and suffers from major pathing issues.
    -Add 2 seconds of regeneration baseline. Especially with the removal of the regen traits from Salvation, the class needs a more diversified access to the boon.
    -Have it grant 2 seconds of boon extension. This is what the old trait used to do and although the trait was a double-edged sword due to the auto-proccing shield 5, the boon extension was a nice niche that the weapon offered.
    -Increase energy to 10. With the added effects, an increased cost is fair.

    [Shield 5]
    -In addition to its current effects, the skill now has a flipover skill that stops the block effect for you anad instead pulses the remaining healing in a PBAoE. This would not only be quite a potent heal (3 pulses max to allies), but would also allow for more group condi cleanse. This would be a significant buff to support Herald.

    I like your idea a lot, but make skill 5 mobile. Just because having to sit still with it SUCKS

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd love Shield 5 to stay a root. But I want it to be powerful enough for it.

    I sincerely love that Revenant is so different. Since everyw class with Shield can move while blocking - Rev could be the one with root. But make it worth the root.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Guys don’t forget shield 4 is a 5k heal aoe that can remove conditions, it’s a good healing skill at range, what needs to be addressed is the rebound effect, but cone would make it a worsen version of staff heal.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:
    I'd love Shield 5 to stay a root. But I want it to be powerful enough for it.

    I sincerely love that Revenant is so different. Singce everyw class with Shield can move while blocking - Rev could be the one with root. But make it worth the root.

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:
    I'd love Shield 5 to stay a root. But I want it to be powerful enough for it.

    I sincerely love that Revenant is so different. Singce everyw class with Shield can move while blocking - Rev could be the one with root. But make it worth the root.

    The root is way to strong as a trade off for a selfish heal that can be beaten easilly with unblockables.

    I actually don’t mind the root either but to have the root shield need to be a strong support and root ahas trade off.
    Maybe crystal hibernation needs to be a dome as well, and allies affected by that gain x% of damage take is converted to health and condition cleanse by pulse while targets arround crystal hibernation take damage like the crystal is being shattered with the damage received.

  • @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    • Please make shield more effective as it is the core weapon for the elite, It's a shame that its almost completely useless in its current form.

    Warhorn weaver says Hi ! :D

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:
    I'd love Shield 5 to stay a root. But I want it to be powerful enough for it.

    I sincerely love that Revenant is so different. Singce everyw class with Shield can move while blocking - Rev could be the one with root. But make it worth the root.

    @DonArkanio.6419 said:
    I'd love Shield 5 to stay a root. But I want it to be powerful enough for it.

    I sincerely love that Revenant is so different. Singce everyw class with Shield can move while blocking - Rev could be the one with root. But make it worth the root.

    The root is way to strong as a trade off for a selfish heal that can be beaten easilly with unblockables.

    I actually don’t mind the root either but to have the root shield need to be a strong support and root ahas trade off.
    Maybe crystal hibernation needs to be a dome as well, and allies affected by that gain x% of damage take is converted to health and condition cleanse by pulse while targets arround crystal hibernation take damage like the crystal is being shattered with the damage received.

    These are all perfect concepts, you know. There many great concepts that could work 100 times better than what we currently have. Concepts that would keep the playstyle of shield but change it's viability.

    But Devs have to kitten do something. We have no idea whether Shield is ever going to get changed no matter the ideas. We just don't know, and I feel like every thread trying to suggest solutions to Shield problems is just straight ignored.

    I want Shield to work like FoN - Changing on Legend. If not, give us Warhorn, this could be nuts.

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