Something has to be done about scourges and firebrands. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Something has to be done about scourges and firebrands.

Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭
edited September 1, 2019 in WvW

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
Guardian

  • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
  • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

Necromancer

  • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
  • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
  • Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
  • Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.

Preface by showing I know about upcoming balance changes to these two specs, but would like to state that these changes do not even come CLOSE to bringing down these two vastly over performing classes.

These two specs simply bring so much utility to the table in both small scale and large scale that it makes other combo's look like a joke.
You come up against players of equal ability that are running these specs you lose. Every SINGLE time. Only if there is a great skill gap will you find yourself victories against these specs.

The worst part is the player base is well aware of this. Feels like 50% of the player base AT MINIMUM are running either a firebrand or a scourge. Its been this way for months.

I Know a lot of players were hoping for a new expansion for the 30th of Aug announcement. But frankly I breathed a sigh of relief at the news that there would be no new expansion (yet), as balance seems to get SIGNIFICANTLY worse as each expansion is released. I found the thought of being stuck with BROKEN elite specs for 4-6 MONTHS to be horrifying.

Love this game, but getting really tired of having quite a bit of fun in WvW until you run into a decent group/duo that's either running a fire brand or a scourge, at which point you either re roll to your own FB/Scourge or hop map.

You guys have high hopes for alliances and new WvW maps, which quite frankly is a delusion. Alliances aren't coming. New maps aren't coming. But would it Kill arena net to simply provide a balance patch every month or two? Or Emergency balance patches to fix critical issues? Is that too much?

I know this post will change nothing but it does provide some catharsis.

<1

Comments

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 1, 2019

    Yea we can only play 2 classes in wvw. There's definitely not a class that does massive unreflectable damage from 1200 range on a cd of 6s or something.

    Oh and yes FB is overperforming everywhere. Scourge is too strong in zergs but otoh they aren't really wanted anywhere else. I would nerf loremaster. Instead of retaining passive skills when tomes are used, it could be only for 10s, like the Rev's Draconic Echo. Loremaster also shuts out the other choices pretty handidly.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    That's just how people like to play,even if things get changed ( Which is not gonna happen,because suggesting anything to Anet is a waste of time from my experience,even if you're completely correct in your suggestion ) people flock to the most other braindead combo available. It's an issue on both sides,people prefer to run with 15 or 50 people with about 50% being Fb's,Revs and the rest being Scourges while everything else is just an add because it's the easy way to go.

    Aoe spamming with your eyes closed while constantly being healed and buffed up with boons. Anet gives the tools that people abuse. Blobbing is a braindead spammfest atm,but alot might disagree. The roam scene kind of died out aswell,it turned into a gank clownfiesta with alot of "carry me " builds.

  • I find it hilarious people thinking scourge and firebrand are the real issues when you got revenants and eles who crit you for 10-16k damage.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019

    I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.
    Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:
    Necromancer doesn't need to be touched. They are slow and dreadfully easy to kill. Guardian on the other hand needs to be gutted. I brought this up yesterday but realized i missed a few more points on what they do. But first look at scourge.

    People complain Scourges either hit to hard, hit too many pepole, deal too many conditions, or corrupt too many boons. Firstly, hitting to hard? This is laughable, watch any video of anyone playing scourge dropping sand savant and look how low the damage is. It's actually borderline pathetic how weak their damage is for a class that moves so slow. People often say if you aren't running power scourge, you're doing it wrong. It's actually the flip of that, if you're running power, you're basically a crutch to your group, raw damage is pathetic. They hit too many targets? Again laughable, have you ever stood in the path of a regular Arrowcart? Wouldn't matter if the necro hit 10 or 50 targets, their damage is too low. Dealing too many conditions? Again this was is funny because the meta generally runs power scourge which translates to little condition damage. Even if spec'd into condition damage, resistance blocks all of it thanks to our friend the guardian who'll be addressed next. Corrupting too many boons? Not sure how or why people even mention this considering the boon application far outweighs the boon corrupts by a nautical mile, and yet here we see an incoming boon corrupt nerf shakes head...

    Now the Guardian, the kingpin of all WvW problems, the class that does too much and does it well. The class that many commanders do (or used to) refuse to leave spawn until they had enough. Also the main reason groups blame the lost of fights.. not enough firebrands. So this is what this class has the ability to do:

    • Party stability to the point if organized correctly, the group is permanently immune to CC (and this is very easy to achieve)
    • Party resistance to the point if organized correctly, the group is mostly immune to all conditions (and this is also very easy to achieve)
    • Heals entire party (and does this better than most other classes regardless of what spec they are in
    • Group Aegis, and if organized correctly can maintain a fairly high up-time
    • Retaliation, comes too easy for them, this is likely why we don't see many ele's or dragonhunters anymore, despite them being good alternative damage classes
    • Reflect. Wall of reflection has a longer uptime and lower cooldown than any of unblockable skills, and completely nullifies any hope of ranged classes "reflection isn't a problem, just use unblockable" - Uh no, one wall can nullify an entire ranged zerg, and it's on a lower cool down with a longer up-time. This makes no sense in itself
    • Too many "I win buttons" as people like to call them, both invulnerable and blocks. Someone once said a couple years ago to another player that died on their guardian "Wow you died on a guardian? That's kitten impressive, how did you pull that off" - Not really much more has to be said than this
    • Quickness, and I almost forgot about this.. group quickness.. I mean come-on... seriously...
    • Condition removal, between the books and purging flames, nothing else really needs to be said bout this
    • Condition conversion to boons (this needs to be separated from Condition removal because the fact this class can do both is beyond asinine.
      (A note on this one, the skill converts 5 conditions to boons for an entire party, yet we have devouring darkness being nerfed from 3 to 2 to convert boons to conditions. So the question remains, why exactly is this guardian skill untouched, this basically functions like an elite with huge cooldown, but instead it's on a 12s cooldown??????)

    • Then to top it off, the ease in which this class applies group might, vigor, swiftness, and regeneration

    This is all basically coming from 1 single spec! And we wonder why the meta has gone completely stale in WvW. Why are even people complaining about other classes at all? They do 11 things well, while other classes are relegated to 1-2 things well, and maybe if they're lucky, being average at a 2nd or 3rd thing.

    What would the Guardian class look like if it was treated like other classes... say, they get to keep their party stability, while drastically lowering their healing, and taking away their ability to provide group Aegis, then simply removing everything else from their arsenal? Not so desired in WvW anymore are they, but they'd still be needed for group stability.

    People don't realize just how overtuned this class is and just how much it holds back other classes, and outright prevents certain classes from even entering WvW.

    You forgot the instares of MI.

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019

    @Mil.3562 said:
    Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

    This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

    In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

    Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

    Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

    People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    They should just nerf Necro Mark stacking.

    That's the only thing making Scourge viable in zerg v zerg battles.

    Enemy takes a wrong path, zerg lays down a billion Marks, some poor sod gets blown up.

    The boon corrupt from Shades and Scourge is just a little bonus to complement their already strong cancer circles.

    If players were given a small trigger limit upon getting damaged by a number of Marks(like can't trigger anymore Marks after triggering 10 Marks), their pirate ship capabilities will drop by more than half, and we will go back to Warrior frontlines supported by Scourge corruptors and Firebrand Supports.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Something IS being done on my server... I just kill them!

    Just another WvW lifer who'll never say die... while dying again and again!

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Mil.3562 said:
    Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

    This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

    In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

    Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

    Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

    People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

    Sorry, but "nerf everything cuz ma rangur in melee diez", is a horrible suggestion. Ranger straight up counters scourge and necro in general, period. Do not blame poor playing/poor skills on the enemy class. Boon corruption has ALWAYS been necro's thing, but the problem lies with perma boon Application. I mean, seriously. Gut necro booncorrupts and boonbeast will be stopped by... What? Zergs will have their boons stripped by... What?
    Passive barrier? Scourge has passive barrier? How?
    Crowd control? With only staff 5 (and many scourges dont always run staff), there is the F4 which causes fear once every 20s. Is that much Crowd control?
    Large aoes? Even full zerk, each hit on shroud does 3k-4k dmg. "Yes but many scourges mean more dmg" well, the same can be said about many rangers using Rapidfire which will result in 300k damage, how does that make any concrete argument? I suggest you actually learn about what the class can do, how it does it, and cannot do, but fore you ask for nerfs. Cause you obviously know very little.

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Mil.3562 said:
    Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

    This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

    In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

    Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

    Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

    People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

    Passive barrier? Scourge has passive barrier? How?

    Um geez I don't know.
    -Sand Cascade
    -Desert Shroud
    -Sand Flare
    -Sand Swell
    -Serpent Siphon

    I mean you call me out for not knowing much about scourge then go on to say that. Save me the debate and destroy your own credibility in an instant. Thanks for saving me the trouble i suppose.

    But I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one person defending their broken build. There's always a few on every thread. People defended DE's when they were broken. People defended sicem. Good to see the rest of the people on this thread know that scourge needs fixing and soon.

  • ashpenny.3201ashpenny.3201 Member ✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019

    @Sleepwalker.1398 said:

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    I find it hilarious people thinking scourge and firebrand are the real issues when you got revenants and eles who crit you for 10-16k damage.

    Who do you think clears their condis, provides barriers and ageis/boons?
    Not taking scrappers into account.

    Its because fb and scourge are stopping melee trains from happening and that's why revs and eles are "safe" to deal them numbers.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Mil.3562 said:
    Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

    This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

    In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

    Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

    Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

    People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

    Passive barrier? Scourge has passive barrier? How?

    Um geez I don't know.
    -Sand Cascade
    -Desert Shroud
    -Sand Flare
    -Sand Swell
    -Serpent Siphon

    I mean you call me out for not knowing much about scourge then go on to say that. Save me the debate and destroy your own credibility in an instant. Thanks for saving me the trouble i suppose.

    But I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one person defending their broken build. There's always a few on every thread. People defended DE's when they were broken. People defended sicem. Good to see the rest of the people on this thread know that scourge needs fixing and soon.

    These are all active abilities. Meaning, you HAVE to use a skill for barrier to trigger. Barrier doesnt trigger on its own alone you stand still. You know a passive ability? Signets.

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Mil.3562 said:
    Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

    This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

    In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

    Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

    Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

    People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

    Passive barrier? Scourge has passive barrier? How?

    Um geez I don't know.
    -Sand Cascade
    -Desert Shroud
    -Sand Flare
    -Sand Swell
    -Serpent Siphon

    I mean you call me out for not knowing much about scourge then go on to say that. Save me the debate and destroy your own credibility in an instant. Thanks for saving me the trouble i suppose.

    But I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one person defending their broken build. There's always a few on every thread. People defended DE's when they were broken. People defended sicem. Good to see the rest of the people on this thread know that scourge needs fixing and soon.

    These are all active abilities. Meaning, you HAVE to use a skill for barrier to trigger. Barrier doesnt trigger on its own alone you stand still. You know a passive ability? Signets.

    Misunderstanding then, I should edit my post to remove the word passive. So Simply nerf barriers.

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Mil.3562 said:
    Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

    This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

    In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

    Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

    Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

    People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

    Passive barrier? Scourge has passive barrier? How?

    Um geez I don't know.
    -Sand Cascade
    -Desert Shroud
    -Sand Flare
    -Sand Swell
    -Serpent Siphon

    I mean you call me out for not knowing much about scourge then go on to say that. Save me the debate and destroy your own credibility in an instant. Thanks for saving me the trouble i suppose.

    But I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one person defending their broken build. There's always a few on every thread. People defended DE's when they were broken. People defended sicem. Good to see the rest of the people on this thread know that scourge needs fixing and soon.

    These are all active abilities. Meaning, you HAVE to use a skill for barrier to trigger. Barrier doesnt trigger on its own alone you stand still. You know a passive ability? Signets.

    Misunderstanding then, I should edit my post to remove the word passive. So Simply nerf barriers.

    Learn to play, sadly Anet balances things around people who - like yourself--are ignorant, but shout the loudest. As you proved. Good day

    Ok mate enjoy your broken build while it lasts :) Fortunately most people on here can see past the class they play, and also notice that WvW is plagued with scourges for good reason. They need adjustment.

  • Etterwyn.5263Etterwyn.5263 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    Anet: So you're saying we need to nerf condi scrapper?

    What?!? Reapers can heal in shroud? Inconceivable! Kitten that kitten up!

    WvW™ - where you find more Red Rings of Death than an Xbox repair facility.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Mil.3562 said:
    Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

    This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

    In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

    Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

    Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

    People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

    Passive barrier? Scourge has passive barrier? How?

    Um geez I don't know.
    -Sand Cascade
    -Desert Shroud
    -Sand Flare
    -Sand Swell
    -Serpent Siphon

    I mean you call me out for not knowing much about scourge then go on to say that. Save me the debate and destroy your own credibility in an instant. Thanks for saving me the trouble i suppose.

    But I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one person defending their broken build. There's always a few on every thread. People defended DE's when they were broken. People defended sicem. Good to see the rest of the people on this thread know that scourge needs fixing and soon.

    These are all active abilities. Meaning, you HAVE to use a skill for barrier to trigger. Barrier doesnt trigger on its own alone you stand still. You know a passive ability? Signets.

    Misunderstanding then, I should edit my post to remove the word passive. So Simply nerf barriers.

    Learn to play, sadly Anet balances things around people who - like yourself--are ignorant, but shout the loudest. As you proved. Good day

    Ok mate enjoy your broken build while it lasts :) Fortunately most people on here can see past the class they play, and also notice that WvW is plagued with scourges for good reason. They need adjustment.

    "broken build". While it lasts. As long as fb is in its current state, the only thing that may have a shot at countering its absurd boon output is necro, and scourge in particular. Or any other class that has perma boons, like soulbeast, one of THE most broken roam builds. But youre not really interested in actual conversation, nah. You just want to drop whatever "argument" suits your agenda, and say irrelevant stuff after when you get called out for being wrong. :)

  • Doug.4930Doug.4930 Member ✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Mil.3562 said:
    Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

    This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

    In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

    Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

    Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

    People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

    Passive barrier? Scourge has passive barrier? How?

    Um geez I don't know.
    -Sand Cascade
    -Desert Shroud
    -Sand Flare
    -Sand Swell
    -Serpent Siphon

    I mean you call me out for not knowing much about scourge then go on to say that. Save me the debate and destroy your own credibility in an instant. Thanks for saving me the trouble i suppose.

    But I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one person defending their broken build. There's always a few on every thread. People defended DE's when they were broken. People defended sicem. Good to see the rest of the people on this thread know that scourge needs fixing and soon.

    These are all active abilities. Meaning, you HAVE to use a skill for barrier to trigger. Barrier doesnt trigger on its own alone you stand still. You know a passive ability? Signets.

    Misunderstanding then, I should edit my post to remove the word passive. So Simply nerf barriers.

    Learn to play, sadly Anet balances things around people who - like yourself--are ignorant, but shout the loudest. As you proved. Good day

    Ok mate enjoy your broken build while it lasts :) Fortunately most people on here can see past the class they play, and also notice that WvW is plagued with scourges for good reason. They need adjustment.

    "broken build". While it lasts. As long as fb is in its current state, the only thing that may have a shot at countering its absurd boon output is necro, and scourge in particular. Or any other class that has perma boons, like soulbeast, one of THE most broken roam builds. But youre not really interested in actual conversation, nah. You just want to drop whatever "argument" suits your agenda, and say irrelevant stuff after when you get called out for being wrong. :)

    Hardly you called me out as i mistakenly called barriers passive, and used that as a basis in which to dismiss my entire point.

    But Ill humor you, in your own words would you like to explain why scourge is by far the most played spec in wvw?

  • Barrier from scourge was nerfed into "mostly useless" in the first weeks after PoF release. If you really struggle on a ranger vs. a solo scourge - which is an ultimate rare sight in this game anyways - it's not an issue that scourge is too strong. The issue lies in your gameplay on your ranger. There shouldn't be any scourge build running solo you can't dominate. No power, no condi, no cele.
    The only reason there are scourges left in wvw is zergs and as some people mentioned above "heavy group support by guardians".

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Barrier from scourge was nerfed into "mostly useless" in the first weeks after PoF release. If you really struggle on a ranger vs. a solo scourge - which is an ultimate rare sight in this game anyways - it's not an issue that scourge is too strong. The issue lies in your gameplay on your ranger. There shouldn't be any scourge build running solo you can't dominate. No power, no condi, no cele.
    The only reason there are scourges left in wvw is zergs and as some people mentioned above "heavy group support by guardians".

    What? Barriers useless? I am not sure what this particular scourge build was but it looked full power #2 axe skill did 100-50% health to proc a thieves instant reflexes and the channal was still going, anyway he gave us spectator's a 9k barrier. (Wow, so usless)

  • Arctisavange.7261Arctisavange.7261 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019

    @Sleepwalker.1398 said:

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    I find it hilarious people thinking scourge and firebrand are the real issues when you got revenants and eles who crit you for 10-16k damage.

    Who do you think clears their condis, provides barriers and ageis/boons?
    Not taking scrappers into account.

    That 10k Barrier (sand flare + F3) provided will taken away by a revenant with 4 second cooldown via Coalescence of Ruin. That skill usually hits atleast 8k minimum and can climb up to around 14k maximum. Did i mention it hits 5 targets and has 4 second cooldown?

    Dont get me started on eles and their meteors.

    All it takes is 1 normal hit even from a Moa Bird to remove aegis. This is a very heavy AOE game thanks to classes like eles, revenants and scourges. You wont be seeing anyone with aegis longer then a second or two in a fight.

    Scourges can corrupt like crazy, even far more then what firebrands can apply. Scepter 3, dagger 5 + axe 3 and focus 5, well of corruption, anguish and good scourges even use sand swell for corrupts. Staff is a pirate trash weapon used when enemies have too many revenants +eles who wont allow you to push towards 900 ranged due to 1200 distance skill spam that 1-2 shots you to floor. These days with the help of scrapper superspeed + stealth you can push to 900 range (if power creep isnt too high) to apply corrupts via weapons skills.

    Imageon if you could actually push to 600 ranged and do frequent melee combat in blob fights where enemies dont die in couple button pushes, now that would be fun..kinda like how it used to be before PoF and HoT.

  • lol, why do people think aegis is useful? can be good at range to avoid meteors and CoRs, but once the zergs hit then its used up instantly.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    lol, why do people think aegis is useful? can be good at range to avoid meteors and CoRs, but once the zergs hit then its used up instantly.

    Thieves cant spam backstab on guardian because of aegis, nerf aegis

  • can only say it again and again, i dont make myself any head anymore about how to improve or balance anything.
    if the game is not good just keep logged off.

    anet is a company, they will not do anything if they see customers are active.

    if the manager realises that customers keep away he will acknowledge a problem and start to move.
    before that does not happen he will keep living in denial cause the numbers make him think everything is ok, they dont care for opinion, they care for numbers and cash only.

    you want something to change? keep logged off and dont write on the forums anymore.

    And there is only one thing we say to Death: 'not today'.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Doug.4930 said:

    @Mil.3562 said:
    Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

    This is exactly the approach anet has been leading towards. This is the definition of power creep.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    I hate to be "that guy" but if you have issues against scourges as a soulbeast or deadeye roamer, well, maybe the problem lies with you.

    In a 1v1 scourge is basically unbeatable if you're pure melee and use boons in anyway. But yes a ranged DE can put down a scourge if given enough time. As can any ranged class with good mobility. However, scourges strength isn't in its ability to duel, but its overwhelming amount of utility it brings to any team fight. Boon corruption/CC/cleave/condition pressure etc. It simply over performs in too many area's, which is why you see it as hands down the most played spec in WvW at the moment. You stick a firebrand with that scourge, and the best hope you've got is a stalemate.

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Plus, you actually are suggesting... Nothing. What should be changed? How should those two classes be "brought down"?

    Firebrands an easy one. Nerf heals across the board. Nerf boon application. If I had my wish, minstrel gear wouldn't be a thing either.

    Scourge I'm still not decided. boon corrupt/Crowd control/large AOE rings/passive barriers. More about scourge being too good at too much. So my suggestion would be to nerf its ability to do some of the things listed and force other players to re roll to classes that can fill those roles as needed.

    People can debate that scourges are fine, but there's a reason its pick rate is through the roof in WvW at the moment.

    Passive barrier? Scourge has passive barrier? How?

    Um geez I don't know.
    -Sand Cascade
    -Desert Shroud
    -Sand Flare
    -Sand Swell
    -Serpent Siphon

    I mean you call me out for not knowing much about scourge then go on to say that. Save me the debate and destroy your own credibility in an instant. Thanks for saving me the trouble i suppose.

    But I'd be shocked if there wasn't at least one person defending their broken build. There's always a few on every thread. People defended DE's when they were broken. People defended sicem. Good to see the rest of the people on this thread know that scourge needs fixing and soon.

    These are all active abilities. Meaning, you HAVE to use a skill for barrier to trigger. Barrier doesnt trigger on its own alone you stand still. You know a passive ability? Signets.

    Misunderstanding then, I should edit my post to remove the word passive. So Simply nerf barriers.

    Learn to play, sadly Anet balances things around people who - like yourself--are ignorant, but shout the loudest. As you proved. Good day

    Ok mate enjoy your broken build while it lasts :) Fortunately most people on here can see past the class they play, and also notice that WvW is plagued with scourges for good reason. They need adjustment.

    "broken build". While it lasts. As long as fb is in its current state, the only thing that may have a shot at countering its absurd boon output is necro, and scourge in particular. Or any other class that has perma boons, like soulbeast, one of THE most broken roam builds. But youre not really interested in actual conversation, nah. You just want to drop whatever "argument" suits your agenda, and say irrelevant stuff after when you get called out for being wrong. :)

    Hardly you called me out as i mistakenly called barriers passive, and used that as a basis in which to dismiss my entire point.

    But Ill humor you, in your own words would you like to explain why scourge is by far the most played spec in wvw?

    Because of its ease to use, as most scourges mindlessly spam all f skills. A good scourge knows when to cast which f skill, when to pressure, when to bomb with shroud, when to switch weapons. And for the last time, scourge damage is abyssmal when compared with revs and eles (when played by players of similar skill). A zerk scourge is a sittimg duck without its babysitter support. It honestly is hard countered by anything even remotely ranged. Or melee.
    I did not dismiss your entire point. You did,by not knowing basics of a class you demand nerfs. And many people here told you about it, too.

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019

    Scourge and firebrand simply cover each other's weaknesses too well. Scourge is very strong in melee because it's one of the few things that corrupts boons en masse, which is good, but it is laughably easy to kill as a deadeye or other ranged spec barring the occasional full trailblazer scourge that actually knows how to play. This is also good, as it gives them a clear weakness, every spec should have that.

    Firebrand lacks damage, but it gives scourge the heal support it lacks by itself, and more importantly it brings a ton of projectile hate, covering the main weakness of scourge. Shift that projectile hate to another couple of classes (so you need a couple to get the coverage) and you'll see a shift in the meta pretty fast, I mean, there's a reason people were using CoR hammer revs to snipe scourges and other squishies in the first place. It's the only ranged DPS skill that actually gets through the projectile hate of a well built group. It doesn't need to be projectile hate specifically that gets changed, but the point is that the firebrand does too many roles at the moment, and these should be split so other classes are required instead of one support and a bunch of DPS. It's the same issue raids had with pre nerf chrono.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • What about overbuffed roaming builds as well then? Like, these mirages and thieves/DD who can just jump on anyone, dish out a perfectly stupid amount of burst (or conditions, in mirage case) and then zoom away in a split second, restealth and be gone/pick another target?

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ashpenny.3201 said:

    @Sleepwalker.1398 said:

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    I find it hilarious people thinking scourge and firebrand are the real issues when you got revenants and eles who crit you for 10-16k damage.

    Who do you think clears their condis, provides barriers and ageis/boons?
    Not taking scrappers into account.

    Its because fb and scourge are stopping melee trains from happening and that's why revs and eles are "safe" to deal them numbers.

    Ele's aren't safe, neither or rangers, or dragonhunters due to retaliation from our friend the Guardian. Their reflect uptime is longer than any unblockable skill and it's on a lower cooldown. Ele's essentially cannot cast meteor shower on the zerg without killing themselves. Dragonhunters can't lay traps due to retaliation otherwise they''re likely to kill themselves. I barely see any ele's anymore, and if I see a dragonhunter, they're almost always carrying a dragon banner which is all but useless for them to carry.

    Rev's are essentially the only counter to this, which is exactly why we see so many complaints about Rev's, because many of these players that are complaining are likely coming the Scourge and Guardian camp. When I play my Rev, the #1 class I kill mostly are scourges followed by guardians. If they over-extend even slightly they're done for.

    Rednik.3089 - WvW can't be built around roaming, it's meant for large group play. What they can do solo or small scale is irrelevant unless they can pull off such devastating damage and escape capabilities in a large group fight. Roamers have to live with what's given to classes; they should not be asking for any changes (nerfs or buffs) when it comes to their small group play. Doing so can completely cripple the large fight aspect of WvW

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019

    A> @ArchonWing.9480 said:

    Yea we can only play 2 classes in wvw. There's definitely not a class that does massive unreflectable damage from 1200 range on a cd of 6s or something.

    Oh and yes FB is overperforming everywhere. Scourge is too strong in zergs but otoh they aren't really wanted anywhere else. I would nerf loremaster. Instead of retaining passive skills when tomes are used, it could be only for 10s, like the Rev's Draconic Echo. Loremaster also shuts out the other choices pretty

    Scourge can be bombed with revenants stacking.

    Grab some jalis hammer zerkers, they can also provide 50% damage reducing on alies to avoid instant bomb kills, so the healers have more time to respond.

  • @Aeolus.3615 said:
    A> @ArchonWing.9480 said:

    Yea we can only play 2 classes in wvw. There's definitely not a class that does massive unreflectable damage from 1200 range on a cd of 6s or something.

    Oh and yes FB is overperforming everywhere. Scourge is too strong in zergs but otoh they aren't really wanted anywhere else. I would nerf loremaster. Instead of retaining passive skills when tomes are used, it could be only for 10s, like the Rev's Draconic Echo. Loremaster also shuts out the other choices pretty

    Scourge can be bombed with revenants stacking.

    Grab some jalis hammer zerkers, they can also provide 50% damage reducing on alies to avoid instant bomb kills, so the healers have more time to respond.

    The way to counter Scourge is pirate ship with Revs. The way to counter pirate ship is to get in close with scourge. My guild has done both and quite frankly, scourge stacking is just more aggressive and arguably more fun then consistent kiting and maintaining 1200 range so Revs can do there thing.

    Either way, both groups have to have Firebrands (at least 1 in each party) and both groups have to have scourges for corrupts so CC can land. Revs can be your main source of damage or just boon bots, they aren't exactly required.

    [KnT] Knights of the Temple

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019

    Another noob Q_Qing to nerf boon corrupt who doesn't understand that boons is the issue in boon spam and is the reason it exists.

    here why don't we just make it so necros can't move and instantly die in one hit then you can all be happy boom time to go play another game, im bored of the Q_Q you guys are ruining this game.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Another noob Q_Qing to nerf boon corrupt who doesn't understand that boons is the issue in boon spam and is the reason it exists.

    here why don't we just make it so necros can't move and instantly die in one hit then you can all be happy boom time to go play another game, im bored of the Q_Q you guys are ruining this game.

    I think it comes down to that people just want to run around in a tight melee ball of guardians and warriors (like the core days when people actually started leaving in masses), in a cloud of boons, pressing 1. Heaven forbid one of their precious boons gets corrupted or a condition ticks on them.. the sky is clearly falling. Definitely can't allow 1 unblockable attack, because if that happens, clearly unblockable needs to be heavily nerfed, and the classes that used it needs their damage drastically reduced.

    To your point, look at the problem with boon spam:

    Firebrand skill Eternal Oasis - Converts 5 conditions to boons on 5 people on a 12 second cooldown
    Scourge skill Devouring Darkness - Coverts 3 boons to conditions on 5 targets on a 10 second cooldown

    What's being proposed for a change? Devouring darkness to receive a 20% damage reduction and reduce the boons corrupted from 3 to 2... I'm really trying to wrap my head around this one on how Anet can justify this vs allowing Eternal Oasis to function as it is, even though it functions with the power of an elite skill.

    Another example:

    Wall of reflect - Up-time of 10s with a 30s cool down. If traited, the up-time of 12s and I believe on a 24s cool down
    Signet of the hunt (because this is what's always referenced) - 6s of unblockable on a 40s cooldown

    So lets compare here, we get people repeatedly complaining about Signet of the hunt when the unblockable aspect of it is generally used against a single target (more-so) in 1v1 or small scale combat. Then we have Wall of Reflect with nearly double the uptime on nearly half the cooldown that stops an entire ranged zerg, yet Signet of the Hunt is the problem...

    This is what we're dealing with here with certain players

  • Lord of the Fire.6870Lord of the Fire.6870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    @ashpenny.3201 said:

    @Sleepwalker.1398 said:

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    I find it hilarious people thinking scourge and firebrand are the real issues when you got revenants and eles who crit you for 10-16k damage.

    Who do you think clears their condis, provides barriers and ageis/boons?
    Not taking scrappers into account.

    Its because fb and scourge are stopping melee trains from happening and that's why revs and eles are "safe" to deal them numbers.

    Yes but this wasn't so in the beginning with the start of PoF we mostly did those melee trains. Rev+hammer became much later a thing. The problem with scourge is his skills hit a lot of players and can lay aoes extreme freely unlike Ele.

    I think Arena.NET reaction not necessary to the position of those classes with those nerfs but to what the community done with it. When I started wvw stats with extra vitality or celestial gear were common now every dps build runs with berserker stats and groups have often 2 healer (scrapper or heal tempest). On top of that Rev and FB running in heavy armour and scourge has its barrier.

    Well about Eles Weaver mostly bomb one position with Metorshower and then does it rota to random enemies this can lead to top DPS but is a very hit and miss. Tempest would be the top choice if scourge hadn't it barrier and condis. I think it is more a push forwards for it in wvw .

    Basically what Arena-NET says with those changes either run other group composition or with other gear/stats the classes themselves are not the main target. FB is way to important for that because FB is also the main heal for Fractals after they nerfed Druid a lot.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Rednik.3809 said:
    What about overbuffed roaming builds as well then? Like, these mirages and thieves/DD who can just jump on anyone, dish out a perfectly stupid amount of burst (or conditions, in mirage case) and then zoom away in a split second, restealth and be gone/pick another target?

    I'm fine with roaming classes like thief getting nerfed. Thing is, unless you build practically full glass on thief, you're not taking down a firebrand. The fact that anything that isn't a firebrand gets instagibbed in seconds actually supports the argument that firebrand does too much.

    It's more that other classes aren't running minstrel gear with a vitality trait and weapons with block skills. Mace was more or less unused until it had the healing power scaling increased and aegis added to it.

    Everyone is forgetting about stability having been changed since core. You could remove all elite specs but the power creep is at core specs as well. Just this year we had weapon skills for warrior add +20% damage ; there's traits for just about every class that tacked on hundreds of power/ferocity.

  • What I fear about those changes is they won't change anything in the meta because for open field fights and GvG this combo of classes skill and berserker stats is too good. With out giving the players reason to do wvw as a conquest/siege war again this has a (good) chance to backfire e.g when they nerfed Spellbreakers bubble the result was we using more warriors or none. Most WvW commanders are with their zerg meta ultra conservative and won't go with the flow until it is showed there is a better alternative.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    i often see most people simply dying no matter the gear because they are surprised.

    else, they survive.

    or they use the wrong synergy in wvw fights.

    i.e.

    we buff go invis sneak into a group then boom, wipe. we can take 20 or 30 with this tactic.

    but head on 10 vs 20 or 30. is extremely situational. we will not push them in the open, we wait for them to come for us. we chip off their bad players.

    and it works. what is weird is ppl should learn to accept defeat gracefully. think and fight another day.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    I find it hilarious people thinking scourge and firebrand are the real issues when you got revenants and eles who crit you for 10-16k damage.

    I find it hilarious when people blame hammer rev for the so called pirate ship meta when I deal like 5k damage and get run over by a wall of scourges and firebrands. Ironically my best targets are other glass cannons who believes the lie that it's a pirate ship meta.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • KeyOrion.9506KeyOrion.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    Anet ~ "Sorry Ranger's are overpowered because people said so. So we're going to take the 1/3 damage from stomp the ground to 1/5th...where it is now completely HARMLESS to warriors with 12 second invulns, extended engineer and Firebrand shields...." I'm really at a complete loss of how all these boons actually up the damage, and effectiveness of Firebrands and Scourges to the point that the main WvW guilds only use those two classes specifically for 1/2 of their group at minimum. I and Sau do a class count, we're counting 15-20 Firebrands, and 10-15 Scourges which then are Permaboon Condi/Tanks. This group by itself wipes nearly everything it touches. A warrior with Dome doesn't even last 1 second, because the condi's burn him to a crisp, and the Boon Stripping...is ineffective because the Group profile throws a new boon on after less than 1-2 seconds. Boon stripping has become...highly ineffective. The damage output of the Firebrand/Scourge combo has left every other class combo out in the dust and miles behind. Where the HELL is anet getting their Nerf information from anyways? The high class WvW guilds? The one's that actually use this kitten? Because it suits their tastes, and really messes up the experience for every other class? Seriously, I think Anet needs to STOP taking input from the Larger WvW guilds, it is NOT helping.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    And yet holo untouched, honestly the balance team needs to be completely re staffed with more competant people with regards to balancing. The games a joke at this point as far as pvp. Same team will net same results and id say the results so far have been very poor. I hate saying that as it sounds like I'm insulting them which I'm not, just don't think their able to do what's needed at this point. Whole game needs a huge balance shake up across all classes at same time.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mil.3562 said:
    Does balancing always means nerfing professions? Can we not buff other classes to make them counter these meta classes?

    In other words, buff instead of nerf to give us more meta choices. Support Scrappers used to be a good counter to scrouges but weak against power builds. And ANet doesn't like it.

    Not everyone likes to play FB snd Scrg. I forced myself to try out both of them and after a few weeks of gameplay, i just don't like their play styles, meta or not.

    So for those that play only WvW, it's either you stick to your preferred professions and get blocked from joining squads or play meta classes. Or you stopped playing, totally. It has been so since PoF and ANet is not concerned at all.

    Lately, it seems like many players gave up. We are are fedup of waiting and waiting and waiting and...

    Merchandise sales and partnerships are their priorities now? How good can your sales be if player base continues to shrink drastically?

    have you not realised how much power creep there is already in both WvW and PvP?

    Anet should nerf everything across the board, not continuously adding more fire power...
    ... with this vicious cycle of continually adding more and more fire power, the game probably end up you probably will be dying from an auto attack

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