Future Potential WvW-centric Balance Changes - September 6th 2019 - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Future Potential WvW-centric Balance Changes - September 6th 2019

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Comments

  • @Zlater.6789 said:
    The warrior warhorn changes feel clunky.

    Fury and resistance are good choices. But there are some problems.

    The coupling of resistance, condition cleanse and barrier doesn't make sense, you only need 1 or the other. Make it resistance base line, give it a long duration and remove the barrier and condition cleanse portion of the skill.

    Barrier is a bad defensive choice anyway because it's not thematically appropriate for warrior. Consider making it protection instead. I'd also urge against aoe stability, we don't need that kind of power creep via boon spread in the other game modes. Chaos Chrono and FB is enough proof for that.

    10-25% damage on the next 2 attacks basically makes this a meaningless bonus effect because it will get wasted on small packets of damage. Why don't you make this interesting? Make it an effect that scales off your stats. For example:

    Increases outgoing damage of nearby allies by (concentration/ 35) % for (concentration/ 60) seconds.

    Overall warhorn just feels like a mishmash if different effects. It lacks any identity.

    I think the intent on resistance, barrier, and condi cleanse is this: What condis you don't get rid of, or the incoming condis don't take away from the barrier, so you get a strong damage negation versus both condi and physical damage.

    As to the damage boost on WH4, I believe that are making it the next 2 attacks is to avoid "Sic'em" scenarios, but if they are dropping it to 10% in WvW/PvP then there should be no problem with it being all attacks in a window of time, something like 2s for WvW/PvP and 4s in PvE. That way it does not get wasted as smaller damage packets.

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 (pinging you here as well to raise this awareness)
    The warrior forum is ambivalent, or even slightly displeased depending on who you ask, with the Fury on WH4 and feel that another boon like retaliation or stability would be better suited. It would balance out FB losing an Aegis from ToC.

    It would help to change the Warhorn tunes to make it more obvious to teammates which skill just got used without having to glance away from the battle.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    @Lightning Xv.8705 said:

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    check out the window in the top right, total damage is the left number while damage per second is the one in parenthesis. Notice that it spikes up to 89.2k damage per second from the shade bomb alone. It's very WeAk AnD pAtHeTiC, aBsOlUtElY lAuGhAbLe

    Show a video of any other class pulling that kind of spike damage if you want to be taken seriously

    Lets see. You dumped a full bomb on a group that just stood still and took it without trying to move. So basically a dummy parse. Which is unrealistic damage since the conditions required to pull it off aren't reliable. Possible yes but not a norm. Your 80k burst lasts less than a second and then it plummets rapidly. Which is why in the end of both clips you're being beat by a weaver despite your 0mG BuRsT.

    There is a maximum possible total damage to be dealt against a group that doesn't pay attention. Your 34 man squad's DPS is lacking which allows you and the weaver to deal majority of it. A better group bomb would have much more balanced numbers across the board instead of two people pretty much carrying. You're losing hardly any damage to invuln frames from downs because of this and since they didn't move all your aoe's struck the maximum possible targets for the full durations.

    Hows about some dps videos not in t4 against people who aren't sleeping. Might be able to take you seriously then.

    So you don't have a video that shows another class with 80k+ spike dps then?

    And I guess stealth bombing is something you've never tried

    I get that you don't want sand savant nerfed, but that's because you don't know how to use the class to its full potential. No worries, I got you <3

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Items

    • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

    Engineer

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.
    • Corona Burst: The existing split from PvP of reduced might gain is brought to WvW. Reduced the damage of this ability by 20% in PvP and WvW.
    • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.
    • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.
    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    Purge Gyro: I really think cleaning pulses should stay at 5 considering antitoxin rework.
    Sneak Gyro: As said previously, I think 60 cd is okay.
    Corona Burst: Well too much nerf, it's either reduced might gain or the damage but not both. 20% less damage is already important (-93.8 damage point) considering the wiki. Would say -15% and keep the 2 might.
    Holographic Shockwave: Again 300 maybe too low, why not 400/450 range? It's still -20%. This skill is important too maintain some foes far from you through interrupt (launch foes).
    Impact Savant: I think it's a good change, if now damage + condis are converted to barrier, it's a good defensive help. Especially if your holo is burning based.
    Chemical Field: Good change, that's stealth proof skill is very helpful against those perma stealth thiefs.
    I really think holo is overnerfed, already previously nerfed with the overheat... It's a class of high damage for high risk not low damage for high risk.

    Asked it before, and saw some players above mentioning it: Consider reworking Engineer turret, for WvW but also PvE and PvP. Those are really in the need of a buff. Several threads cover the topic: Increase resistance, vulnerable to only "piercing" projectiles, can stack boons on them (would be really helpful), overcharge restored.... And a kind of real Elite, like a laser / electro magnetic-turret instead of supply or the annoying mortar (should be direct shot instead of all targetted). Can attract enemies and then deliver an electric shockwave, inflicting daze and vulnerabilities..... Anything is possible. Can't recommend enough to take a look on those turrets thread. Also I find the hammer very slow, I mean the cooldown of its skill are just so looonnngg. We don't even have an hammer skills recharge reducing trait! It reminds me elementalist glyphs! Pistols of engineer need help too having a proper role. Rifle is very nice when used as holosmith, but frankly if used as core with turrets or kits it's bad. Elixir kit is very weak compared to top notch like bomb/mine kits.

    The second thing: Nerf those red circles of death necros. (Ghastly Breach) Enough of seeing only them in WvW for several years. They should disappear to let the place to more diversity of builds and professions. Currently WvW is 40% scourge, 40% Firebrand and 20% of other classes.

    +++In creative mood. New Engie Elite spec' , Housing , New asuran expansion , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    +++NEW: AEP Asuran Expansion Project available on WIKI.
    +++New: GEM GW2 Exploration Map: Discover unusual places around tyria: Here (OSM map)

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Regarding CI it's still useless. Mesmer weapon skills aren't skills that can be used independently from one another. Again if you want to go down that route you should reduce all weapon skills by a certain amount each rupt either by a fixed amount or by alacrity.

    The degenerate

  • @otto.5684 said:

    Lastly, I really hope that your balance design is not based on two random Zerg mobs, uneven in number, in an unstructured environment using non-standardized gear slugging it out. You will never ever balance that kitten.

    What he said, assuming otto.5684 meant "your balance design is not based on equalizing two random blobs uneven in number." Skill should be the only metric capable of achieving that.

  • So three main concerns

    1 don't change holographic shockwave. the casting time and the fact that it gets interrupted so easily is enough of a handicap. plus people need to learn to dodge roll its not hard to avoid.

    2 changes to rune of antitoxin if you are going to change that you are going to need to adjust the condi in the game. I can give you a list of classes that have very limited condi clears but you already know them all because you made them. frankly most of my deaths are at the hands of the scourges AOE or other condi. Hell you can make a power scourge and they are still OP on condi and strips.

    1. the changes in damage from the scourges is a start but frankly corrupts don't matter when scrappers can just turn them right back into boons. so at the end of the day if the scourge isn't reworked from top to bottom there really is no way to slow them down because barrier reductions don't matter when squads of 20 are running 8 scourges and you just get additional barriers.
  • Sovereign.3825Sovereign.3825 Member
    edited September 8, 2019

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    Then the other change.. devouring darkness this makes no sense. The community certainly is mostly divided when it comes to feedback which is why Anet really shouldn't be listening to us at all. There is one thing we can all agree on though, boon spam is completely and utterly out of control. It is what breaks builds, like completely breaks them. Then we see the change to devouring darkness, reducing boon corrupt from 3 to 2... I mean really...... really.... Then to make matters worse the Guardian is still running around with that skill that converts 5 conditions to boons on 5 people (functions like an elite skill), yet it sits on a 12 second cool down. Everyone ever who has opened their mouth about feedback has specifically stated numerous time "boon spam is out of control", so a change to devouring darkness converting 2 boons instead of 3 makes less than zero sense.

    What he said. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me if you're NOT going to "balance" those classes converting conditions to boons. Devouring Darkness only converts 40 boons (per necro) per 60 second large group encounter because the boon spam is there to begin with. I mean, you want to do both rather than one, right? Then you lower to burden on servers and avoid turning WvW into an unmitigated boon swamp.

  • fewfield.7802fewfield.7802 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree with Desert Shroud nerf but we need to see how it's gonna be practical

  • fewfield.7802fewfield.7802 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    @Elric.4713 said:
    I guess you're set on destroying Rev hammer in only game mode it's actually good. Oh well...

    Is that your good reason to not touch the hammer rev which is doing too high range dmg right now ?
    Are you actually playing WvW ?
    Do you know anything about pirateship and how it's so boring?

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    Necromancer

    • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.

    I hope you increase the base of self healing of Sand Flare in does to the Scourge itself, to make up for the reduced barrier it gives.
    As any other form of scourge that doesn't use healing power is getting a straight nerf to its recovery.

    Increase the base self healing by 15-20%

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    the change to revs gaze of Darkness is good
    If you make a visible path for enemies of hammer skill2 there is no dps reduction needed because its clear visible , instead increase the damage on the 3rd impact
    the hammer is already very slow ..... reducing dps makes it unplayable because we dont have permanent 25 might stacks anymore and we cant deal permanent 25 stack fo vulnerability on enemies ...
    and it already fails very often duo to the terrain .... maybe you should rework the skill so it will hit to 100% uneffected by terrain

  • First thank you Irenio and team. Taking the time to listen to feedback goes a long way here in the community. Overall the suggested changes seem fair and reasonable and I would be excited to give them a shot. I know that at this time you are not looking for general class feedback, but in the future it would be really nice to have some dedicated time for each profession where the community could pick out and have the devs address the top 1-3 issues for that class. Not everything would have to be a full rework but perhaps small changes that have fallen through the cracks over the years that could easily breath new life into some of the professions. Again, thank you and look forward to this type of communication in the future.

  • LucianTheAngelic.7054LucianTheAngelic.7054 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    @fewfield.7802 said:

    @Elric.4713 said:
    I guess you're set on destroying Rev hammer in only game mode it's actually good. Oh well...

    Is that your good reason to not touch the hammer rev which is doing too high range dmg right now ?
    Are you actually playing WvW ?
    Do you know anything about pirateship and how it's so boring?

    The skill doesn’t need the type of nerf it’s getting. It’s getting a functionality nerf across ALL game modes that will reduce its intended function in ALL game modes (intended function is high, slow, AoE damage at far range).

    Coalescence Of Ruin just needs a skill split damage reduction on the 3rd impact to be equal to the damage on 2nd impact for WVW ONLY. This would be exactly what this change is going to do anyway in WvW based on what they’ve suggested here. The entire skill should NOT get adjusted to be “2nd impact damage” in every game mode. It’s not a buff in PvP or PvE and will just worsen the already underperforming hammer in those game modes. When you take hammer you take it because you want to do high, slow damage at 1200 range and NO other reason

    Also Scourge is the main reason for pirate ship. Hammer Rev only does well because of Scourge. It’s not nearly as strong in “Push” metas.

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    Coalescence Of Ruin just needs a skill split damage reduction on the 3rd impact to be equal to the damage on 2nd impact for WVW ONLY. This would be exactly what this change is going to do anyway in WvW based on what they’ve suggested here. The entire skill should NOT get adjusted to be “2nd impact damage” in every game mode.

    well lets see, if it is ONLY IN WVW im ok
    but NOT IN TPVP

  • @hugo.4705 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Items

    • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

    Engineer

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.
    • Corona Burst: The existing split from PvP of reduced might gain is brought to WvW. Reduced the damage of this ability by 20% in PvP and WvW.
    • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.
    • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.
    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    Purge Gyro: I really think cleaning pulses should stay at 5 considering antitoxin rework.
    Sneak Gyro: As said previously, I think 60 cd is okay.
    Corona Burst: Well too much nerf, it's either reduced might gain or the damage but not both. 20% less damage is already important (-93.8 damage point) considering the wiki. Would say -15% and keep the 2 might.
    Holographic Shockwave: Again 300 maybe too low, why not 400/450 range? It's still -20%. This skill is important too maintain some foes far from you through interrupt (launch foes).
    Impact Savant: I think it's a good change, if now damage + condis are converted to barrier, it's a good defensive help. Especially if your holo is burning based.
    Chemical Field: Good change, that's stealth proof skill is very helpful against those perma stealth thiefs.
    I really think holo is overnerfed, already previously nerfed with the overheat... It's a class of high damage for high risk not low damage for high risk.

    lol

  • Acyk.9671Acyk.9671 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    EDIT: delete please

  • @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    Also Scourge is the main reason for pirate ship. Hammer Rev only does well because of Scourge. It’s not nearly as strong in “Push” metas.

    Scourge is the reason for pirate shipping? The reason for pirate shipping is not having a strong enough melee group.
    Also Hammer Rev does well not only thanks to scourges, but also to spellbreakers: without boon strip right now, no group is able to have good damage against a structured/competent enough opponent.
    As long as you don't fix the boon generation issue, you solve nothing at all.

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

    Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

    I don't really think that Coalescence of Ruin needs both area red warning and damage reduction. It should be just one, and I choose red warning.

    Hammer on Rev is a very telegraphed weapon, so giving its skills warning should be enough.
    I think Hammer is a weapon that should hit really hard and be really visible. Coalescence of Ruin is one of the best weapon skills and feels really impactful.

    Please consider keeping the damage increase while you add the red warning.

    Oh my god. That is literally so cool that you are posting it.

    Please, I'm begging you continue to do so.
    Please please please.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Greetings again all,

    • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

    Engineer

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses. The combination of antitoxin and this MIGHT make condi comps viable.......maybe. Which may irk many but a little variety in group set up from fight to fight would be nice to liven things up a little instead of everyone running the same thing.

    Necromancer

    • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation. I take it this is to reduce wall pressure? if so sure why not it doesn't do a whole hell of a lot anyway.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
    • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.
    • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
    • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.Maybe change up the other GMs to make them more enticing? Boost the base size of shroud to big shroud? Just without the +targets. Maybe swap harbinger and Feed from corruption(does anyone use this thing?its never felt very grandmastery)and reduce or remove the delay on harbinger? Just tossing ideas to the wind maybe something will stick or inspire.
    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
      The damage reductions and barrier amounts may make people rethink stat choices. More cele/marshal/ whatever instead of mara and zerk. That said I remember the barrier blobs from the start of POF have you checked the numbers on this?

    Ranger

    • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.6-0.8 in WvW only.I still don't believe this is the correct approach to this. This issue is soulbeast and the damage mods/ and merg bonus. Though the range going well beyond the cap doesn't make things better.

    Warrior
    * Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in PvE and PvP and 10% in WvW in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher. Better than version one. 25 was to high for wvw. Give it a shot see what happens.

    Side note Irenio....warclaw sniff....This thing pretty much destroyed the element of surprise from implementation. Getting rid of it would be nice not gonna lie.

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:

    And I guess stealth bombing is something you've never tried

    I get that you don't want sand savant nerfed, but that's because you don't know how to use the class to its full potential. No worries, I got you <3

    So much assumption and I'm sure you know how that saying goes. I'll just quote my self from the first version of this thread and be done with you

    If you want to reduce its pressure in wvw reduce its targets on shades.<

  • @DonArkanio.6419 said:
    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

    Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

    I don't really think that Coalescence of Ruin needs both area red warning and damage reduction. It should be just one, and I choose red warning.

    Hammer on Rev is a very telegraphed weapon, so giving its skills warning should be enough.
    I think Hammer is a weapon that should hit really hard and be really visible. Coalescence of Ruin is one of the best weapon skills and feels really impactful.

    Please consider keeping the damage increase while you add the red warning.

    As a salty ele main, If lava font got nerfed by 30% then Rev hammer can get nerfed too

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm glad scourge is getting nerfed, hopefully their sustain suffers a bit.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @hugo.4705 said:
    Holographic Shockwave: Again 300 maybe too low, why not 400/450 range? It's still -20%. This skill is important too maintain some foes far from you through interrupt (launch foes).

    Too low for what? Not being able to knockdown people in SM from spawn?

    The holo shockwave range has always been insane. The AoE is as large as a treb cow shot and if we take edges into account (AoE always hit outside marked areas due to fat player hitboxes) we are talking roughly a ranger longbow shot edge to edge. Theres no player AoE in the game I'm aware that is so large.

    Hell, even 300 is still fairly large AoE.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Grumpdogg.6910Grumpdogg.6910 Member ✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    Rev Staff 4 needs to cleanse more than 2 condis if you're determined to bring back condi spam

    Revert all Chrono changes so we can return a class to the meta instead of just tinkering around with the current ones.

    Nerf Longbow Wall Ranger camping so you force people to actually come down and engage in the game.

    Remove siege disablers and double the damage of offensive siege so maps stay active instead of locking down a few T3 and then taking the week off.

  • Delete BG and remove NA Tiers 3 and 4.

  • You should not listen to players on forum at all since all people here are biased. Contact professionals/ best players/ hire some mastermind data scientists and consult changes with them.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    Also Scourge is the main reason for pirate ship. Hammer Rev only does well because of Scourge. It’s not nearly as strong in “Push” metas.

    Pirateship exist since they nerfed stability. Scourges came long after that. So the main reason for pirateship is not the scourge but how difficult it is to push forward through CCs. Even if you were to remove the scourge from the game you'll still be stuck into pirateship.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Greetings again all,

    Guardian

    • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW. 10 allies now have avoidence of cc of 3. It is still too much for such low cd skill. CC skill usually affects max 5 players - to overcome that you need at least 6 those skills to be thrown at your group to rid the stab via its counter. It is still too much stab!
    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.**Nonoby takes this skill as meta is overflown with boon stacking and stab - it is uselles in such composition. **

    Mesmer
    Again. Please focus on things that actually matter to the gamplay of mesmer - those changes does not affect the core problems this class has as of now.

    • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW Reduce the invulnerability period on revived allies. Improve the smart targeting on this skill so it can't fail in big group situations where there is someone downed and lots of people near them.Can we get the reduced invul time after rally/res/whatever insted as a baseline for all scenarions, not only this? It would be a ton of improvement to reduce the invul frames and reduce the rallybotting. As of IoL still this skill is not worth taking as a utlilty - very situational is group fights/ Please focus on mesmer core proglems. This is not one of them.
    • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities that is already on cooldown by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.I've laughted so hard at this when I realized they it was not as ''baseline' in the rework - just imagine getting your 'weapon 1' affected by this.. GG. Still, this looks poor - and does not solve any current issues with this class.
    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight. **Fair. Can we get the LoS fixed in WvW then? You know, the portal up the stairs, walls, uneven terrain etc? **
    • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.**Fair. Can we get the LoS fixed in WvW then? You know, the portal up the stairs, walls, uneven terrain etc? **

    Necromancer

    • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
    • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.**... **
    • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
    • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.**Fix: Your Sain Servant can be killed and it is affected by AoE. Or: After 7 seconds you are teleported to your Greater Shade ** / or just give it the Chrono threatment.
    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

    Can we have more boon strip? Not only on necro maybe?

    Revenant

    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.Perma stealth is a problem, you are trying to fix it from very very wrong end.
    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.**Make it a 'projectle type' - this would shift the meta - one skill to change. **
  • Samug.6512Samug.6512 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    Suggestion for engi: touch unused trait lines - Explosives and Firearms? Explosives is just... meh, Firearms could be great but grandmaster traits don't make much sense.
    Something like:

    • Explosives remove a boon on critical with 3s ICD, or
    • Explosives are unblockable (mortar kit & nades, also maybe then Crystal Configuration: Storm from Holo would be a nice choice)

    Give engineer a way to deal with retaliation - maybe grandmaster in Inventions?
    Core engineer needs some more Stability, some more sources than from Elixirs and traited Flamethrower that nobody uses.

    [NUKE]

  • Lazze.9870Lazze.9870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Alatar.7364 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Thief

    • Deadly Ambition: Reduce the poison inflicted by this trait from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 2 seconds in PvP & WvW. Reduce the internal cooldown from 5s to 2s in PvP & WvW.

    This change is a considerable buff not a nerf nor even an adjusment.

    Litterally one-upping Ranger's Refined Toxins, which was already strong and got nerfed to 15 sec ICD for PvP over a year ago. Not to mention doing so with an adept tier trait, as opposed to a master tier one.

    How can they buff a trait which so easliy applies poison continuously after nerfing a similar trait earlier... Then again, other balance changes they've done earlier also neglected how strong the secondary effect of poison is, regardless of whether you're playing a power or a condi build.

  • appelflap.8310appelflap.8310 Member ✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    As a mesmer main I am concerned about the Chaotic Interruption trait rework, although I like the new changes on mesmer alot but I want to know if we mesmers are still able to stack might with Chaotic Interrution?
    The immobilize on this trait was too good so yes it needs a nerf but to be honest i took the trait for the might stacking. Pls anet let us still stack might with chaotic interruption it opens up so much more viable builds, dont let power mesmers stay on domination traitline forever!

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Engineer
    * Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    The problem I see here is that you're proposing an inelegant solution to a problem ANET balance devs created. In WvW/PvP this might seem to make sense, except that this will have spillover into PvE.

    Prior to the removal of F5 toolbelt, Sneak Gyro made sense. You didn't equip it in PvE unless you wanted to use skip mechanics, so not being stuck with Detection Pulse, a completely useless ability in PvE, wasn't an issue. But now in PvE you are going to replace an arguably useful toolbelt (Chemical Field) with a useless one for anyone wanted to slot Purge Gyro. In PvP/WvW, Chemical Field also has its uses for both DPS and support builds, as dropping a poison field around you to reduce enemy healing is a good thing.

    Suggestion: When Sneak Gyro is slotted, replace the Lightning Field generated from Function Gyro with Detection Pulse. Maybe reduce the radius of detection pulse as now it could be cast 600 units away from the Scrapper. This also forces the scrapper to consider Detection Pulse as a resources vs. something to press on cooldown, as now it removes access to range stomp/revive for 30seconds. It will also then have the added effect of revealing any stealth classes that are trying to stomp the target you are aiming to revive, which is something that will likely anger Thief players, but what else is new.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Greetings again all,

    Thanks for the feedback regarding the proposed changes posted last week.

    Below you'll find a set of changes we're looking at which is WvW-centric, as well as a few modifications to some of the changes from the last thread. With these changes the objective is to bring the dominant builds and compositions into line and offer more build diversity to the existing meta. Because there's been some confusion, we want to clarify that we're continuing to balance for other game types, including (as some of you guessed) significant changes to the warrior's Tactics line as well as the necromancer's Death Magic line, ranger sword changes and more.

    As before, this isn't the full set of changes we're preparing and this is not a call for general profession feedback.
    Here are a few questions to think about while looking over the potential changes:

    • Would your gameplay change as a result? How?
    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes? Why?
    • What are your concerns and the consequences you expect with this set of changes?

    Here is what we're looking at. Previously posted and unchanged items are italicized at the bottom of each profession's section so that it should be easier to focus on the new and changed parts of this set of changes:

    Items

    • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

    Engineer

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.
    • Corona Burst: The existing split from PvP of reduced might gain is brought to WvW. Reduced the damage of this ability by 20% in PvP and WvW.
    • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.
    • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.
    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    Guardian

    • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.
    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.

    Mesmer

    • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW Reduce the invulnerability period on revived allies. Improve the smart targeting on this skill so it can't fail in big group situations where there is someone downed and lots of people near them.
    • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities that is already on cooldown by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.
    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.

    Necromancer

    • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
    • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.
    • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
    • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.
    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

    Ranger

    • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.6-0.8 in WvW only.

    Revenant

    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.
    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

    Thief

    • Deadly Ambition: Reduce the poison inflicted by this trait from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 2 seconds in PvP & WvW. Reduce the internal cooldown from 5s to 2s in PvP & WvW.

    Warrior

    • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in PvE and PvP and 10% in WvW in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
    • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
    • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
    • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

    Thanks once again for your feedback and for keeping things focused.

    Sincerely,
    ~Irenio

    I'd take a look at my previous post on the previous upcoming balance. My stance still does not change.
    As for Impact Savant, you should really consider, for the time being that most things are high DPS oriented, increasing Impact Savant's damage to barrier conversion to 20% or 25%.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Items

    • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

    I guess this had to happen sooner or later. While this change seems to be targetted mostly towards the Scrapper, it would have been nice
    to provide an alternative for other support (elite) professions.

    Engineer

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.

    Since the change above already costs 50% of the cleansing a scrapper does, it definitely should stay at 5 pulses.
    Scrapper needs to excel at least at something, we only have the odd one or two in full zergs nowadays.

    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.

    This I don't understand. It never struck me as particularly powerful after the latest nerf. Yes, people can blast the smoke field which they can
    do with about any other power, but it rarely happens due to random people dropping all kinds of fields over it,

    • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.

    While the HP loss reduction is appreciated and the inclusion of condition damage is as well, I would suggest giving out
    barrier for outgoing healing. The spirit of the scrapper seems to be "be active, get rewarded". If you are on the frontline with
    reduced HP getting some tangible reward for healing would be nice.

    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    I am split about this one. While the return of the Detection Pulse is highly appreciated, Chemical Field has lots of utility for a support scrapper,
    as in you can drop it on downs to finish them (and get some rare tagging! Bags for poor supporty scrappers are rare!) and make ressing 33% slower.
    I would probably prefer getting Detection Pulse back nonetheless for the utility and one argument to even have a scrapper in the zerg.

    Guardian

    • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.

    I don't like reducing stability. One of the most unfun things in WvW is getting tossed around without having much counterplay since many
    classes have to rely on their supporters (i.e. firebrands) for it.

    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    I think firebrand does too much of everything, so some aegis removal is fitting.

    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.

    See above.

    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.

    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.

    Trying to add some utility to ignored skills is nice, but I'm not sure we need more CC.

    Necromancer

    • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
    • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.
    • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
    • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.

    The trouble is that this power allows for tons of area denial which no other profession has. This design has always been extremely unhealthy for WvW and has made
    many professions unviable or unfun in WvW. I can understand this is not an easy problem to fix.

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

    Since this is usually traited to be PBAoE this will definitely stick.

    Since the Scourge elite spec is responsible for many of the problems we have nowadays in WvW (i.e. 'pirateship meta', which I would call the 'minefield meta'),
    some direction changes are appreciated. Scourges should be changed to more of a support (barrier) role instead of a condi damage role imo.

    Revenant

    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

    A bit of reveal never hurts.

    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

    Oh yes! This will be a big game changer for a lot of glassier people who will no longer go "huh, I had full HP and am suddenly dead. Why? searches combat log Oh, revs."
    anymore.

    I believe many of the changes are going into the right direction even though some hurt very much. I believe WvW will go into much more condi heavy direction since cleansing is not as prevalent.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Scourge barrier needs a big tone down.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    Warrior

    • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in PvE and PvP and 10% in WvW in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
    • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
    • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
    • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

    Thank you for posting about your plan about warrior. I know what you want to achieve is giving warrior somekind of "supportive" role but I am not sure if this change will make us shift from GS/Hammer when playing WvW. To be honest warrior player mostly locked in Defense Discipline Spellbreaker on the zerg play, I tried to use the Strength instead of Defense but it cause a lot of survival sacrifice, meanwhile changing Discipline for Strength is not an option since Discipline is very mandatory.

    I would prefer if you can somehow give some buff/tweak to hammer warrior and warrior's survival, so at least we still have the option to use Strength without sacrificing too much survival because switching out from Defense.

  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭

    Thank you ANet for healing back the Scrapper a little from the last bat bash.

    But I think by removing the group condi cleanse from the antitoxin rune also removes the only reason to use the rune.

    Scourges win.
    (because there are a million of them in WvW and they make the most noise in the forum on how OP the rune is)

  • @Mil.3562 said:
    Thank you ANet for healing back the Scrapper a little from the last bat bash.

    But I think by removing the group condi cleanse from the antitoxin rune also removes the only reason to use the rune.

    Scourges win.
    (because there are a million of them in WvW and they make the most noise in the forum on how OP the rune is)

    well then nerf scourge condi.

  • @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    Also Scourge is the main reason for pirate ship. Hammer Rev only does well because of Scourge. It’s not nearly as strong in “Push” metas.

    Pirateship exist since they nerfed stability. Scourges came long after that. So the main reason for pirateship is not the scourge but how difficult it is to push forward through CCs. Even if you were to remove the scourge from the game you'll still be stuck into pirateship.

    There were push metas during HoT. Stability was nerfed before HoT. I don't agree with this analysis. Pirate ship exists because pushing is detrimental with as much AoE corrupt/boon strip exists (spellbreaker/scourge)

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @MLinni.6109 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Items

    • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

    I guess this had to happen sooner or later. While this change seems to be targetted mostly towards the Scrapper, it would have been nice
    to provide an alternative for other support (elite) professions.

    Engineer

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.

    Since the change above already costs 50% of the cleansing a scrapper does, it definitely should stay at 5 pulses.
    Scrapper needs to excel at least at something, we only have the odd one or two in full zergs nowadays.

    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.

    This I don't understand. It never struck me as particularly powerful after the latest nerf. Yes, people can blast the smoke field which they can
    do with about any other power, but it rarely happens due to random people dropping all kinds of fields over it,

    • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.

    While the HP loss reduction is appreciated and the inclusion of condition damage is as well, I would suggest giving out
    barrier for outgoing healing. The spirit of the scrapper seems to be "be active, get rewarded". If you are on the frontline with
    reduced HP getting some tangible reward for healing would be nice.

    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    I am split about this one. While the return of the Detection Pulse is highly appreciated, Chemical Field has lots of utility for a support scrapper,
    as in you can drop it on downs to finish them (and get some rare tagging! Bags for poor supporty scrappers are rare!) and make ressing 33% slower.
    I would probably prefer getting Detection Pulse back nonetheless for the utility and one argument to even have a scrapper in the zerg.

    Guardian

    • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.

    I don't like reducing stability. One of the most unfun things in WvW is getting tossed around without having much counterplay since many
    classes have to rely on their supporters (i.e. firebrands) for it.

    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    I think firebrand does too much of everything, so some aegis removal is fitting.

    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.

    See above.

    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.

    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.

    Trying to add some utility to ignored skills is nice, but I'm not sure we need more CC.

    Necromancer

    • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
    • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.
    • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
    • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.

    The trouble is that this power allows for tons of area denial which no other profession has. This design has always been extremely unhealthy for WvW and has made
    many professions unviable or unfun in WvW. I can understand this is not an easy problem to fix.

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

    Since this is usually traited to be PBAoE this will definitely stick.

    Since the Scourge elite spec is responsible for many of the problems we have nowadays in WvW (i.e. 'pirateship meta', which I would call the 'minefield meta'),
    some direction changes are appreciated. Scourges should be changed to more of a support (barrier) role instead of a condi damage role imo.

    Revenant

    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

    A bit of reveal never hurts.

    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

    Oh yes! This will be a big game changer for a lot of glassier people who will no longer go "huh, I had full HP and am suddenly dead. Why? searches combat log Oh, revs."
    anymore.

    I believe many of the changes are going into the right direction even though some hurt very much. I believe WvW will go into much more condi heavy direction since cleansing is not as prevalent.

    Ye if a Glass cannon hits a glass cannon hard, its almost a one shot. So why is the herald the only class that wont do a oneshot in that scenario? Why low damage even if full zerk? What about Tanky Warriors or Mesmers that onehit everyone too? ._.

    (or Deadeyes, all sorts of mage, Rangers, Guards)

    Seems like Herald arent allowed to have fun anymore. They take all our Damage away and dont even buff our support or sustain. We are now pretty much like a plastic bowl.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Engineer
    Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.
    Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.
    Corona Burst: The existing split from PvP of reduced might gain is brought to WvW. Reduced the damage of this ability by 20% in PvP and WvW.
    Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.
    Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.
    Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    Holo wave needed in a fix stop it from hitting you after you actually evaded it. Make one hit that hit the ground at max range insead of a wave spread, fix it height as well.
    And this nerfs on corona bust and holo wave wont fix the spamness, this crazy damage and its sustain. I had my post about it here -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1014065#Comment_1014065

    Mesmer

    • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW Reduce the invulnerability period on revived allies. Improve the smart targeting on this skill so it can't fail in big group situations where there is someone downed and lots of people near them.
    • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities that is already on cooldown by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.
    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.

    Chrono is still ruined and unplyable in PvP/wvw and super frustrating to play in pve. Wells are unusable under water or no one is going to stay in them. Look at gyro wells that follow engineer, the same should be with a chrono too.
    Dont see how CI would be strong or OP, I see it as a dead useless trait. Removing immobilize from the old trait was impossible?

    Ranger

    • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.6-0.8 in WvW only.

    So longbow range is still bugged and 2000 range? Fix when ?

    Thief

    • Deadly Ambition: Reduce the poison inflicted by this trait from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 2 seconds in PvP & WvW. Reduce the internal cooldown from 5s to 2s in PvP & WvW.

    Buff to a condi daredevil... isnt it supposed to be nerfed? Are you sure everyone have 5 condi cleanses every 2 seconds?

  • Hi Irenio,
    first of all: thank you for the early information and willingness to discuss changes with the community! Very cool!
    As Guardian main I will only give feedback to Guardian changes:
    Stand your Ground: ** From my point of view this change is counter-productive. To have the same amount of stability as before the only thing you need is even more Guardians. So if your target is to bring in other professions, just add a cool source of stability to another profession. If you reduce the capability of the only class that can bring in stability reliable, you need only more of this class.
    **Tome of Courage:
    To remove Aegis of ToC 2 is really bad. Not for WvW, but for PvP. As you only get Aegis on yourself this will not really affect full support FB (1 block + a little bit of heal if traited). BUT, at the moment in PvP a second FB build starts to shine, the so called Firesage. This build is only half support, will never be played in WvW (at least not in zergs), but is viable in PvP. This build urgently need some sustain in order to survive some seconds if focused. The Aegis on ToC 2 helped there very much, the block and little heal can help you to survive some seconds until your mates are there to help. If you remove this boon, there will be no impact in WvW, but you will kill (maybe not kill, but nerf hardly) a welcomed more DPS-orientated FB variant in PvP. To reduce build diversity is always bad. Instead maybe removing Protection from Legendary Lore will massively reduce support capabilities of FB while being still viable and letting another viable build survive.
    All the other changes to Guardians are completely irrelevant (sorry to say ;) ).
    Thank you again for listening to the community and cu in the game.

  • MLinni.6109MLinni.6109 Member ✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Ye if a Glass cannon hits a glass cannon hard, its almost a one shot. So why is the herald the only class that wont do a oneshot in that scenario? Why low damage even if full zerk? What about Tanky Warriors or Mesmers that onehit everyone too? ._.

    (or Deadeyes, all sorts of mage, Rangers, Guards)

    Seems like Herald arent allowed to have fun anymore. They take all our Damage away and dont even buff our support or sustain. We are now pretty much like a plastic bowl.

    Nono, you misunderstand me here. I am NOT for reducing Rev damage in any way. They could keep the old version of damage for all I care. All I am happy about is the change to CoR that you will finally be able to see the danger zone and have a chance to react to it. Other than in roaming, the shattered ground trail is culled in zerg play so that you don't have any chance to react to it.
    You should be able to see what's coming and dodge if you can. Whenever I am playing a glassy character and I am suddenly dead without being able to see any attack and have to resort to the combat log to find out what actually happened it irks me.

  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mil.3562 said:
    Thank you ANet for healing back the Scrapper a little from the last bat bash.

    But I think by removing the group condi cleanse from the antitoxin rune also removes the only reason to use the rune.

    Scourges win.
    (because there are a million of them in WvW and they make the most noise in the forum on how OP the rune is)

    To add in : there are many Scourge mains here pretending to be Scrappers and supported the nerf to anti-toxin rune. Come on guys, this trick is getting old.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @MLinni.6109 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Items

    • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

    I guess this had to happen sooner or later. While this change seems to be targetted mostly towards the Scrapper, it would have been nice
    to provide an alternative for other support (elite) professions.

    Engineer

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.

    Since the change above already costs 50% of the cleansing a scrapper does, it definitely should stay at 5 pulses.
    Scrapper needs to excel at least at something, we only have the odd one or two in full zergs nowadays.

    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.

    This I don't understand. It never struck me as particularly powerful after the latest nerf. Yes, people can blast the smoke field which they can
    do with about any other power, but it rarely happens due to random people dropping all kinds of fields over it,

    • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.

    While the HP loss reduction is appreciated and the inclusion of condition damage is as well, I would suggest giving out
    barrier for outgoing healing. The spirit of the scrapper seems to be "be active, get rewarded". If you are on the frontline with
    reduced HP getting some tangible reward for healing would be nice.

    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    I am split about this one. While the return of the Detection Pulse is highly appreciated, Chemical Field has lots of utility for a support scrapper,
    as in you can drop it on downs to finish them (and get some rare tagging! Bags for poor supporty scrappers are rare!) and make ressing 33% slower.
    I would probably prefer getting Detection Pulse back nonetheless for the utility and one argument to even have a scrapper in the zerg.

    Guardian

    • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.

    I don't like reducing stability. One of the most unfun things in WvW is getting tossed around without having much counterplay since many
    classes have to rely on their supporters (i.e. firebrands) for it.

    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    I think firebrand does too much of everything, so some aegis removal is fitting.

    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.

    See above.

    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.

    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.

    Trying to add some utility to ignored skills is nice, but I'm not sure we need more CC.

    Necromancer

    • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
    • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.
    • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
    • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.

    The trouble is that this power allows for tons of area denial which no other profession has. This design has always been extremely unhealthy for WvW and has made
    many professions unviable or unfun in WvW. I can understand this is not an easy problem to fix.

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

    Since this is usually traited to be PBAoE this will definitely stick.

    Since the Scourge elite spec is responsible for many of the problems we have nowadays in WvW (i.e. 'pirateship meta', which I would call the 'minefield meta'),
    some direction changes are appreciated. Scourges should be changed to more of a support (barrier) role instead of a condi damage role imo.

    Revenant

    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

    A bit of reveal never hurts.

    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

    Oh yes! This will be a big game changer for a lot of glassier people who will no longer go "huh, I had full HP and am suddenly dead. Why? searches combat log Oh, revs."
    anymore.

    I believe many of the changes are going into the right direction even though some hurt very much. I believe WvW will go into much more condi heavy direction since cleansing is not as prevalent.

    Ye if a Glass cannon hits a glass cannon hard, its almost a one shot. So why is the herald the only class that wont do a oneshot in that scenario? Why low damage even if full zerk? What about Tanky Warriors or Mesmers that onehit everyone too? ._.

    (or Deadeyes, all sorts of mage, Rangers, Guards)

    Seems like Herald arent allowed to have fun anymore. They take all our Damage away and dont even buff our support or sustain. We are now pretty much like a plastic bowl.

    No. Rev was properly nerfed. The others are not, yet. That's the issue. Lets not bring back the one shot meta.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • @Ghos.1326 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @MLinni.6109 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Items

    • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

    I guess this had to happen sooner or later. While this change seems to be targetted mostly towards the Scrapper, it would have been nice
    to provide an alternative for other support (elite) professions.

    Engineer

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.

    Since the change above already costs 50% of the cleansing a scrapper does, it definitely should stay at 5 pulses.
    Scrapper needs to excel at least at something, we only have the odd one or two in full zergs nowadays.

    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.

    This I don't understand. It never struck me as particularly powerful after the latest nerf. Yes, people can blast the smoke field which they can
    do with about any other power, but it rarely happens due to random people dropping all kinds of fields over it,

    • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.

    While the HP loss reduction is appreciated and the inclusion of condition damage is as well, I would suggest giving out
    barrier for outgoing healing. The spirit of the scrapper seems to be "be active, get rewarded". If you are on the frontline with
    reduced HP getting some tangible reward for healing would be nice.

    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    I am split about this one. While the return of the Detection Pulse is highly appreciated, Chemical Field has lots of utility for a support scrapper,
    as in you can drop it on downs to finish them (and get some rare tagging! Bags for poor supporty scrappers are rare!) and make ressing 33% slower.
    I would probably prefer getting Detection Pulse back nonetheless for the utility and one argument to even have a scrapper in the zerg.

    Guardian

    • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.

    I don't like reducing stability. One of the most unfun things in WvW is getting tossed around without having much counterplay since many
    classes have to rely on their supporters (i.e. firebrands) for it.

    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    I think firebrand does too much of everything, so some aegis removal is fitting.

    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.

    See above.

    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.

    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.

    Trying to add some utility to ignored skills is nice, but I'm not sure we need more CC.

    Necromancer

    • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
    • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.
    • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
    • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.

    The trouble is that this power allows for tons of area denial which no other profession has. This design has always been extremely unhealthy for WvW and has made
    many professions unviable or unfun in WvW. I can understand this is not an easy problem to fix.

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

    Since this is usually traited to be PBAoE this will definitely stick.

    Since the Scourge elite spec is responsible for many of the problems we have nowadays in WvW (i.e. 'pirateship meta', which I would call the 'minefield meta'),
    some direction changes are appreciated. Scourges should be changed to more of a support (barrier) role instead of a condi damage role imo.

    Revenant

    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

    A bit of reveal never hurts.

    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

    Oh yes! This will be a big game changer for a lot of glassier people who will no longer go "huh, I had full HP and am suddenly dead. Why? searches combat log Oh, revs."
    anymore.

    I believe many of the changes are going into the right direction even though some hurt very much. I believe WvW will go into much more condi heavy direction since cleansing is not as prevalent.

    Ye if a Glass cannon hits a glass cannon hard, its almost a one shot. So why is the herald the only class that wont do a oneshot in that scenario? Why low damage even if full zerk? What about Tanky Warriors or Mesmers that onehit everyone too? ._.

    (or Deadeyes, all sorts of mage, Rangers, Guards)

    Seems like Herald arent allowed to have fun anymore. They take all our Damage away and dont even buff our support or sustain. We are now pretty much like a plastic bowl.

    No. Rev was properly nerfed. The others are not, yet. That's the issue. Lets not bring back the one shot meta.

    Or anything resembling a 1-skill kill meta. Anet pushed changes to decrease the time-to-kill, which might have been fine in PvP, but in WvW was aweful. Now they need to increase the time-to-kill. And this is coming from someone who liked the Arc Divider revamp, granted it was because Warrior then had their one 1-shot skill to compete with the other 1-shots. I think if they reduced ranged DPS in general and reduced the number of condi stacks in WvW then it would be in a better place. Not saying it'd be perfect, but melee pushes would be easier to do, and we could do away with pirate shipping. That or they need to give access to defiance bars, with limited availability.

  • @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    It would help to change the Warhorn tunes to make it more obvious to teammates which skill just got used without having to glance away from the battle.

    That is a very good suggestion. Anet, if you do not want to create entirely new tunes / sound effects, you can just take the existing sound effect and speed it up for Charge. Since swiftness is the skill most associated with Charge, it will be an intuitive deduction to discern it from Call to Arms.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Mesmer

    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.

    The facing requirement still sounds like it will feel absolutely ATROCIOUS in PvE! Please ensure this skill does not simply fail, or spam error messages, when mobs randomly move outside the allowed cone.

  • Hey Engi main here, over 6300 hours of playing mostly WvW but have done alot of pvp and pve.

    Would your gameplay change as a result? How?- Yes it would I use mostly Holo at the moment as it is the most consistent way of getting results as a roamer, solo or in a small group. I've very aggressive so the range change on Holographic Shockwave doesn't effect me too greatly, but in larger fights it may.

    Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game? - I think it'd make me play more careful when using Holographic Shockwave, possible make it seem more fair to the people vsing me also.

    Are you looking forward to these potential changes? Why? - I look forward to seeing less, less skilled engineer's about. back in 2012-2017 engineer was very very niche. You'd only see the off SD build roaming about, other than that not many of us around, the skill level of us was greater. Although with holo it has added an easier way of getting results, you can easily tell that more and more engineers appearing as a result of holo being added. It does tell how strong holo is for people to really pushing towards the profession. I do like fairness when possible, so I'm looking forward someone, although I'd like to see Major buffs to base engineer, which is partially useless for any situation in wvw. Scrapper and Holo do everything it does and better.

    What are your concerns and the consequences you expect with this set of changes? - I don't have many major concerns. Although I do believe other parts of engi needs a buff also. The unused things like gadgets, base engineer and kits. The focus seems to be on Scrapper and Holo but I never see much for the base. I'm guessing you'll get to it in time, but i am hoping for something soon.

    Lastly I do think maybe instead of just nerfing maybe looking into the unused traits and giving them abit more to balance the reason for certain nerfs.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Deadly Ambition: Reduce the poison inflicted by this trait from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 2 seconds in PvP & WvW. Reduce the internal cooldown from 5s to 2s in PvP & WvW.

    But, if you add this trait:
    " Potent Poison — Increased poison duration (+33%). Poison deals increased damage(+33%). Other Deadly Arts traits apply additional poison stacks."

    Its pretty much still same.

    Or ewen a buff >>if we count it by this calculation : "(0.06 * Condition Damage=1000) + 33.5 damage per stack per second at level 80."
    ** It would be old> 1 454,95 damage** (1,3x 1 119,195 damage: (3,99 sec x 3 stacks x 93,5 damage))
    **Versus new> 1 580,15 damage ** (1,3 x 1215,5 damage : (5 stacks (2 stacks ewery 2 sec for 5 sec) x 93,5 damage x 2,6 sec))

    Sry it look bad, but pretty much yeah it will be a little buff, not nerf.

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