Future Potential WvW-centric Balance Changes - September 13th 2019 - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Future Potential WvW-centric Balance Changes - September 13th 2019

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  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2019

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    fact their auto attack is beyond overpowered either.

    With 2000 range, aned furiously ignore that, somehow.

    And again, it's just like all other projectiles in the game.

    Post a proof that all projectiles has 2000 range or projectiles travel bonus 500 range upon reaching its maximum range, can you ?

    All arching projectiles in this game go further than the stated range. Ranger's longbow goes the furthest because it has the furthest baseline range too.

    Point being that it isn't exclusive to ranger, but everyone words it as if this is some unique ranger bug.

    Not even single projectile in this game doesnt have 500 bonus range and barely noticable, it noticable at all. They dont even track you at that range, meanwhile ranger LB does. Not even a single weapon has that absurd range(2000 rofl) and damage.
    I wouldnt even bat an eye if they hard cap every weapon at stated range.

    "Not even single projectile in this game doesnt have 500 bonus range"

    Word.

    I told you how it works, and that it works like other projectiles, and why it goes further. I don't give a flying F about how mad you are about it.

    Every projectile does it, but NONE OF THEM ARE AT THE LEVEL OF LONGBOW 1. Most projectiles end around 1600 to 1700, Longbow does at 2000. That's just plain unfair and unintended. At least bring it in line.

    AND NONE OTHER ARCHING PROJECTILES HAVE THE STATED RANGE OF THE LONGBOW EITHER. Most projectiles in this game are stated as 1200 at most, ranger longbow is 1500. If they're gonna "bring it in line", that's essentially nerfing one of the unique advantages that weapon has.

    So mad, wow. Unfair advantage doesnt mean unique advantage.
    FYI deadeye rifle is 1500 range, its projectiles doesnt go to ~2000 range.

    Bullets don't arch in this game.

    Compare warrior rifle to the warrior bow.

    Make all projectiles behave like bullets and disappear at intended range-> problem solved.
    I see you are an edit God there. Enjoying unfair advantage and spamming 1 for 4-6k damage from 2000 range is "intented uniquness" not unfair advantage, lmao.
    Biased ranger main isnt a waste of time /s

  • Lazze.9870Lazze.9870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2019

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Lazze.9870 said:

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @Blocki.4931 said:
    fact their auto attack is beyond overpowered either.

    With 2000 range, aned furiously ignore that, somehow.

    And again, it's just like all other projectiles in the game.

    Post a proof that all projectiles has 2000 range or projectiles travel bonus 500 range upon reaching its maximum range, can you ?

    All arching projectiles in this game go further than the stated range. Ranger's longbow goes the furthest because it has the furthest baseline range too.

    Point being that it isn't exclusive to ranger, but everyone words it as if this is some unique ranger bug.

    Not even single projectile in this game doesnt have 500 bonus range and barely noticable, it noticable at all. They dont even track you at that range, meanwhile ranger LB does. Not even a single weapon has that absurd range(2000 rofl) and damage.
    I wouldnt even bat an eye if they hard cap every weapon at stated range.

    "Not even single projectile in this game doesnt have 500 bonus range"

    Word.

    I told you how it works, and that it works like other projectiles, and why it goes further. I don't give a flying F about how mad you are about it.

    Every projectile does it, but NONE OF THEM ARE AT THE LEVEL OF LONGBOW 1. Most projectiles end around 1600 to 1700, Longbow does at 2000. That's just plain unfair and unintended. At least bring it in line.

    AND NONE OTHER ARCHING PROJECTILES HAVE THE STATED RANGE OF THE LONGBOW EITHER. Most projectiles in this game are stated as 1200 at most, ranger longbow is 1500. If they're gonna "bring it in line", that's essentially nerfing one of the unique advantages that weapon has.

    So mad, wow. Unfair advantage doesnt mean unique advantage.
    FYI deadeye rifle is 1500 range, its projectiles doesnt go to ~2000 range.

    Bullets don't arch in this game.

    Compare warrior rifle to the warrior bow.

    Make all projectiles behave like bullets and disappear at intended range-> problem solved.
    I see you are an edit God there. Enjoying unfair advantage and spamming 1 for 4-6k damage from 2000 range is "intented uniquness" not unfair advantage, lmao.
    Biased ranger main isnt a waste of time /s

    I didn't say 2000 range is an intended uniqueness. Learn to read.

    However, I did say that I don't care if they limit all skills to the actually stated range. You can throw "biased" at me all you want, but it doesn't make any sense to do so.

  • That's the problem with Gw2's class system. Unlike, other mmorpgs, there are trinity system. Majority of the people just wants to dps and share buffs.. When others wanted a specific class such as healer or tank class, it's frowned upon. The light class, is the one doing the tanking lol!. Mage class = melee class, lol!!. That is what's wrong with gw2 class system. I think traits should be changed, add 3 masteries like in league of legends (Damage, Defense, Utilities/Support).

  • @Dreddo.9865 said:
    The reason why scourge had its shades shared to himself and a targeted area is that it has maybe the lowest self sustain capability among all professions. I am starting to believe people behind those changes don't have a clue of how the class operates - as of course many of those commenting that the scourge is actually becoming stronger (lol).

    That's why scourge needs to decide if they want to use the shade for offensive range dmg or defensive self sustain.
    I think it's fine with this issue of making a decision.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Placing a shade anywhere will delete the oldest shade so LF consumption will matter. There is also the change to barrier scaling. The intent of the developers appears to be to separate Scourge offense and defense in WvW. If it does not work as they intend, expect further nerfing.

    Arenanet seems intent on forcing two Scourge builds; one for zerg offense and one for defense. The offensive Scourge should be glassier and susceptible to pressure and bursts. The defensive Scourge will be a barrier-slave. Zergs may need more Scourge's built just for barriers.

    The dev's seem to want the corruption AoE but also want to make Scourge and the zerg to pay for it in opportunity cost. Ranged offense players will require active defense; e.g., blocking, healing/barrier, condi-cleanse, bursts on opponents pushing into the zerg core, etc, to pick off the more vulnerable offense Scourges.

    Think of how core zerg-Necro works. Most core Necro zerg builds have terrible defense. I think Arenanet is going for that type of offensive Scourge while also allowing for a barrier-slave staff-Scourge. Remember that a Scourge without LF is both useless and highly vulnerable so a barrier-slave would be forced to generate LF all the time.

    However, an offensive Scourge would have small barriers and have to drop a shade on itself, erasing the offensive shade, or spend a lot of LF for defense.

    Scourge in the other game modes will probably suffer until it is re-tuned but I suspect that is in progress.

  • maybe make f1 always one shade, you press it again and it disables the shade. once you place it it starts to go on cd. remove the sand savant increased shade cd as it makes zero sense to keep.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2019

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @X T D.6458 said:
    Boon spam is out of control in WvW and you keep nerfing the only class that can counter it....just why....

    They are also nerfing Scrapper through Antitoxin runes so it wont be able to generate as many Boons from cleansing Condis

    Well indirectly, but it will still give boons on cleanses to the person with the runes rather than distributing them to allies. Its a good change dont get me wrong, but its not enough in my opinion. Firebrands are stuck in support roles because they are putting out way too many boons. I understand as well as anyone the importance of boon sharing in WvW, and I still remember the frustration and fallout over the stability nerf. The problem is the current situation is just out of control and it carries bad players and groups that rely on boons rather than actually using proper strategy. Necromancer is really the only class that has been a staple in the WvW meta that can counter boon spam and it is constantly being nerfed, not to mention its already lackluster and nonexistant defensive skills and mobility.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

  • And they still don't listening again...

  • After talking to some top players in sPvP it seems as if there with be zero Necro's in the meta if these changes go live. Helio said they would be "garbage" if these changes go through. What are your thoughts? Irenio Calmon Huang?

  • ZolracAtrox.2908ZolracAtrox.2908 Member ✭✭
    edited September 22, 2019

    @Novaura.1079 said:

    Please have them pulse around you as you move similar to the Function Gyros as they are now a "well". This would help diversify some of the support monopoly that firebrand has especially if you give some of them stability / barrier / resistance.

    Guardian Monopoly* Cuz he's the meta in All game modes| As support, | As condi-power support | As Power DPS | As Condi DPS | In all cases, super easy to use.

    But Anet still nerfing Weaker classes in PvE, Welp.

  • I hope Anet will read those posts. Many good pvp players are in here, explaining why scourge should not become this treatment. This should convince them to overthink the rework and instead focus on the specific trait sand savant.

    Anets team probably does not play pvp with scourge, but anyone who plays it knows how easy scourge is to kill, even with the defenses it has right now. And this is not only the case for ranks p2 and up, this is also the case for lower ranks. So it is not just a minority being able to kill it quickly.

    It is necessary that they cancel the rework in order to protect scourge from being deleted from pvp.
    And this would result in a huge loss for match quality overall, not only because I am a scourge main, but also because in this boon-heavy meta, every scourge stripping boons from the enemy team really helps in order to play against firebrands, holos, boonbeasts etc.

    This possible rework is so bad because it even makes the choices of profession smaller, which is not a good fact, considering that the pvp population is as low as it never has been before!

    I really appreciate this thread, because it means that we have a platform to express our thoughts. Let's hope this is not just a facade and there are actual people behind taking our complaints and doubts seriously. I don't write just for the sake of complaining, I am genuinely concerned about the results of the scourge rework for match quality, general pvp playstyles and of course because I love pvp (have been playing it actively for years) and I don't want it to get even worse.

    ~ Miyu Chan / Miyus Spin To Win/ Fyora ♥ / twitch miyu_chan_serenity

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    Please don't apply the scourge changes to PvP and PvE. Pretty please. >.<
    Attempting to fix WvW is fine, but this goes too far.

  • Im just gonna repeat myself from other topic in rev section about said "road" inspiring reinforcement;

    Potential change - make it work like underwater version, remove cd, add stunbreak. End result great skill.

    Why play around so static and terrible? I mean wow.. the road will be longer.. and still narrow as it always been, still being forced to stay in it for a stability. It doesnt and will never work. You can make it built up even 30000 range, its not gonna to change anything

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    maybe make f1 always one shade, you press it again and it disables the shade. once you place it it starts to go on cd. remove the sand savant increased shade cd as it makes zero sense to keep.

    It would be more flexible to increase the LF cost of F1. That way, in addition to deleting a greater (offensive) shade to create a defensive shade with Sand Savant, the LF cost will render the Scourge useless and vulnerable afterward.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 22, 2019

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    What I love about this is they're trying to nerf scourge in wvw, but it's actually a big buff. While deleting scourge from pve and pvp... where it's already bad

    The concept is sound but it's implementation... I am not sure of; guessing there will be many months of patches to properly nerf Scourge in WvW and buff it outside of that.

    Arenanet has a very long history of severe balance issues with Necro because of its AoE condi pressure, "second health bar," and profession design rules, a.k.a. artistic opinion. Without addressing the core problems, it will continue bouncing between OP and trash.

  • yeah lol you guys should decrease shade duration to 5s or something if you're gonna redesign it this way.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • so where is the fix to ranger damage? sicem? long bow? Where is the 50% damage reduction this class really deserves?
    and while we are at it:
    where is the reveal for eles?
    and why do eles, squishy and clunky mechanics, are still doing so low damage? where is the 100% damage increase?

  • When are those changes coming?

  • Next Monday prob

  • I am not an experienced Scourge player so my opinion doesn't hold as much weight, but I feel like a "Recall Shade" flipover skill option could help alleviate the glaring issue I see arising due to the proposed shade change. This would mean reducing it to only one shade at a time for non-Sand Savant, but with the target increase, perhaps this would be fair to make it less terrible for PvP and small scale? Make it instant cast but with a 0.5s delay on using shade skills or something like that. I still think Sand Savant needs to be reevaluated and made into a strictly supportive option, but I would hate to see another Illusionary Persona effect happen to Scourge in non-zerg settings.

  • eyestrain.3056eyestrain.3056 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2019

    Punishing scourge for placing a shade and leaving them unable to do anything in melee for 15 seconds results in more passive play, not more active strategizing. You have to choose whether to hide at range and stay there because pushing will be suicide. And with this, for scourges who do push, instead of placing your shades where you will be so you get 10 cap limit, now you just... walk in and push buttons. I don't really understand this change in the context of anet's goals to make players play more thoughtfully and actively.

    Thematically/mechanically replacing chemical field to get detection pulse back similarly doesn't make sense. I know anet never ever hits undo on any change they've done (even one that has proven to be poor) but just putting detection pulse back on f5 makes more sense for what they're trying to accomplish.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Hey again all

    I think it's a clear mistake to buff #targets for scourge. 20% less damage on 2x the number of targets is an overall 60% damage increase. This is only going to lead to MORE scourges not fewer.

    The core issue with WVW (and why I stopped playing) is that after 7 years, the same 4 meta classes continue to dominate the meta. Guard continues to be the best support, necro continues to be the best PBAE/bombing/boon corruption class, and rev the best ranged bombing class.

    Please fix

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    I am not an experienced Scourge player so my opinion doesn't hold as much weight, but I feel like a "Recall Shade" flipover skill option could help alleviate the glaring issue I see arising due to the proposed shade change. This would mean reducing it to only one shade at a time for non-Sand Savant, but with the target increase, perhaps this would be fair to make it less terrible for PvP and small scale? Make it instant cast but with a 0.5s delay on using shade skills or something like that. I still think Sand Savant needs to be reevaluated and made into a strictly supportive option, but I would hate to see another Illusionary Persona effect happen to Scourge in non-zerg settings.

    A flip skill would only apply if the scourge has all of its shades out which would seriously weaken the other 2 traits while making Sand Savant extremely oppressive. Even more so than it is with this update. So hard pass.

  • santso.9201santso.9201 Member ✭✭✭

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 to solve scourge issue in wvw is not rework The whole shade mechanic but just remove dps potential from shades when using sand savant. After that revert Nerf to dhuumfire and Make bottom grandmaster actual trait instead of just being meme.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Limodriver.4106 said:
    change meteor shower plz its redicules u see 1 meteor shower animation but u are already been hitted 3 times.

    It also has a large AoE circle and the ele is standing still for 3 seconds to land it all, you can dodge out of it to avoid getting hit 3 times as it's your bad positioning that is getting you killed

    G'day

    Actually you need way more than one Dodge to get out of the center. Also, you can use burning retreat+ teleport trick to get so far away from the Zerg, that nobody will ever hit you, not even longbow rangers. + You can activate a block skill while channeling

  • REV:
    As a main rev im ok with all 3 listed changes. I see what is the goal and I get it.
    IR could be like a underwater version(with breakstun on it), but pretty nice.
    Hammer will be less unique but maybe we get something nice in the future(something nice doesnt mean moar dmg).
    Gaze of Darkness thank you, this is QoL change. +1

    Scourge:
    Well as ppl mentioned for WvW it will be good change but for PvP and PvE this change will be horrible.
    Scourge doesnt have shroud, so he is shade also. Right now it will be in PvP waiting for that drop(shade) and then burst. Cuz necro cannot defend himself. This will make
    this espec even more dependend on your FB(no change here, still superior to everything). If you rework Shades to Switch(activate deactivate, so you can use minor trait for
    placing shade) it can work. Otherwise... If you somehow make this work it will be great.

    I dont wanna discuss other classes cuz I dont play them much, but I like it overall. Maybe guard could get hit little bit more. He is the pillar of every wvw meta, but trade it for something else so it doesnt get "chrono treatment"(its actualy necro treatment :astonished: )

    When this will go in to game?

    Jokaurene

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2019

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Limodriver.4106 said:
    change meteor shower plz its redicules u see 1 meteor shower animation but u are already been hitted 3 times.

    It also has a large AoE circle and the ele is standing still for 3 seconds to land it all, you can dodge out of it to avoid getting hit 3 times as it's your bad positioning that is getting you killed

    G'day

    Actually you need way more than one Dodge to get out of the center. Also, you can use burning retreat+ teleport trick to get so far away from the Zerg, that nobody will ever hit you, not even longbow rangers. + You can activate a block skill while channeling

    More than one dodge would basically mean your positioning is bad and it will be more than just MS, scourge wells, rev hammers for example, if the ele cancels it's casting on MS then there will be less meteors dropping at a slower rate aswell, Arcane shield rarely saves an ele lol

    If your going to ask for nerfs, atleast play and understand the class before you do.. it does help

  • They updated the first post a few days ago.
    Not enough time left to rework the impact-savant (scrapper) trait fully.
    So I half-expect the patch will come this or the next Tuesday. Just guessing, though. ^^

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Limodriver.4106 said:
    change meteor shower plz its redicules u see 1 meteor shower animation but u are already been hitted 3 times.

    It also has a large AoE circle and the ele is standing still for 3 seconds to land it all, you can dodge out of it to avoid getting hit 3 times as it's your bad positioning that is getting you killed

    G'day

    Actually you need way more than one Dodge to get out of the center. Also, you can use burning retreat+ teleport trick to get so far away from the Zerg, that nobody will ever hit you, not even longbow rangers. + You can activate a block skill while channeling

    More than one dodge would basically mean your positioning is bad and it will be more than just MS, scourge wells, rev hammers for example, if the ele cancels it's casting on MS then there will be less meteors dropping at a slower rate aswell, Arcane shield rarely saves an ele lol

    If your going to ask for nerfs, atleast play and understand the class before you do.. it does help

    Was a lot of fun being top dmg even before most recent ele changes (buffs?!)
    And I didn't have any problem with surviving. And if you are exactly in the middle of the area, you do need 2 dodges to get out.

    You should by far outrange scourges and heralds.

    You know about the burning retreat + immediately cast meteor shower + then reposition with blink combo?
    If yes, you are either very unlucky with positioning of you get hit by scourges or revs, or you positioning is beyond being bad

  • Lala.8752Lala.8752 Member ✭✭✭

    my dream is to have balance patch regularly...

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I dont play Holosmith my own but the Holographic Shockwave from 600 to 300 sound pretty extreme to me. Holosmith isnt a thing that really needs any nerfs.
    If it has to be, then a 480 range would be more enough of a nerf.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2019

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Limodriver.4106 said:
    change meteor shower plz its redicules u see 1 meteor shower animation but u are already been hitted 3 times.

    It also has a large AoE circle and the ele is standing still for 3 seconds to land it all, you can dodge out of it to avoid getting hit 3 times as it's your bad positioning that is getting you killed

    G'day

    Actually you need way more than one Dodge to get out of the center. Also, you can use burning retreat+ teleport trick to get so far away from the Zerg, that nobody will ever hit you, not even longbow rangers. + You can activate a block skill while channeling

    More than one dodge would basically mean your positioning is bad and it will be more than just MS, scourge wells, rev hammers for example, if the ele cancels it's casting on MS then there will be less meteors dropping at a slower rate aswell, Arcane shield rarely saves an ele lol

    If your going to ask for nerfs, atleast play and understand the class before you do.. it does help

    Was a lot of fun being top dmg even before most recent ele changes (buffs?!)
    And I didn't have any problem with surviving. And if you are exactly in the middle of the area, you do need 2 dodges to get out.

    And all Eles do is damage, where Scourge can do decent damage, Decent Barrier and Decent Boon Corruption Like i said, its bad positioning that got you in the middle of a bomb so that is your bad.

    You should by far outrange scourges and heralds.
    your point?

    You know about the burning retreat + immediately cast meteor shower + then reposition with blink combo?
    If yes, you are either very unlucky with positioning of you get hit by scourges or revs, or you positioning is beyond being bad
    I'm not sure what you are trying to say, If my position is bad and i get destroyed by necros and Revs? that's fine.. I just look at what I did wrong and work on that

    I do know about the Combos to get MS off, but LF is a 40 second CD, BR at 16 Seconds and MS at 24 seconds, personally i try not to use LF if possible so I can save it for moments when i need to gtfo

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    I dont play Holosmith my own but the Holographic Shockwave from 600 to 300 sound pretty extreme to me. Holosmith isnt a thing that really needs any nerfs.
    If it has to be, then a 480 range would be more enough of a nerf.

    In PvP it needs a nerf, but not in PvE.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • All nerfs to any class are welcome to reduce the power creep.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zahrak.6382 said:
    All nerfs to any class are welcome to reduce the power creep.

    Yes I kinda want to see an event week, where everyone gets a debuff: 50% less healing and 50% less dmg

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    I dont play Holosmith my own but the Holographic Shockwave from 600 to 300 sound pretty extreme to me. Holosmith isnt a thing that really needs any nerfs.
    If it has to be, then a 480 range would be more enough of a nerf.

    In PvP it needs a nerf, but not in PvE.

    i meant in pvp. a 300range is almost nothing

  • @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    I dont play Holosmith my own but the Holographic Shockwave from 600 to 300 sound pretty extreme to me. Holosmith isnt a thing that really needs any nerfs.
    If it has to be, then a 480 range would be more enough of a nerf.

    In PvP it needs a nerf, but not in PvE.

    i meant in pvp. a 300range is almost nothing

    It says range for some reason but it's actually a radius. And 300 radius is not that small. Yes, it's way smaller than 600 and exponentially so, but if you compare it to similar skills of other professions 300 is way more fair than 600. 480 would still be quite a bit more than what other professions get for pbAoEs that make you stay still for the cast.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ganathar.4956 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    I dont play Holosmith my own but the Holographic Shockwave from 600 to 300 sound pretty extreme to me. Holosmith isnt a thing that really needs any nerfs.
    If it has to be, then a 480 range would be more enough of a nerf.

    In PvP it needs a nerf, but not in PvE.

    i meant in pvp. a 300range is almost nothing

    It says range for some reason but it's actually a radius. And 300 radius is not that small. Yes, it's way smaller than 600 and exponentially so, but if you compare it to similar skills of other professions 300 is way more fair than 600. 480 would still be quite a bit more than what other professions get for pbAoEs that make you stay still for the cast.

    imo holo isnt a class that really needs any nerf. It can be good..."can".
    other classes could need a nerf slightly more then the holo
    and its not like hes doing abnormal things with that skill