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Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates

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  • It is a gaz plant.To much click.Non ergonomics.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:
    So we got 1 extra equipment slot for free since before both wvw and pve used the same one now we got 2.

    They didn't use the same one.
    Maybe you used the same build in both and didn't notice, but others (including me) used different ones.
    We gained literally nothing and lost the automatic switch between game modes.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    So we got 1 extra equipment slot for free since before both wvw and pve used the same one now we got 2.

    They didn't use the same one.
    Maybe you used the same build in both and didn't notice, but others (including me) used different ones.
    We gained literally nothing and lost the automatic switch between game modes.

    So tell me how did you have 2 sets of equipment on at the same time before build template?
    I dident say you had the same stats in the equipment that you had on, but you surely used the same equipment tab in both modes even if you switched the gear in it.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    So we got 1 extra equipment slot for free since before both wvw and pve used the same one now we got 2.

    They didn't use the same one.
    Maybe you used the same build in both and didn't notice, but others (including me) used different ones.
    We gained literally nothing and lost the automatic switch between game modes.

    So tell me how did you have 2 sets of equipment on at the same time before build template?
    I dident say you had the same stats in the equipment that you had on, but you surely used the same equipment tab in both modes even if you switched the gear in it.

    I somehow missed out on the equipment.
    I thought you were referring to builds.
    But even so, most people gained basically nothing, as they don't switch equipment anyway.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2019

    @Blueberry.8095 said:

    @AzureNightmare.3914 said:
    I may be beating a dead horse, but I still think the biggest problem is that you can only unlock tabs per character, not account. If the purchases for Equipment Tabs and Specs were account-wide, I'd be more tempted to buy them. If I only had to buy four more Equipment Template Slots for 2000 gold total and every single character I have, and will ever make will have six slots, most of my criticisms would be gone. I think these templates should either be dirt cheap per character ($10 can get you everything with a few gems left over), or account-wide purchases to justify their hard prices. With the prices you're charging, I can just buy character slots and make new toons to fulfill new purchases. Engineers and Elementalists having weapon swap now helps save on the space a bit, but it still much.

    I don't know. I never used ARC, I can't really compare how much better it was, and I'm a really casual PvE primary player. But there's something about the prices for these single purchases that just... don't feel right, honestly.

    Which is something a lot of people has been asking but were still not addressed.

    I too want account-wide unlock - if I unlock 1 slot on 1 character, the other characters also gain 1 slot, so each character now has 4 slots (including the 3 default slots). If not, I refuse to buy any just like I won't unlock bag slot that only unlock on 1 character but not the whole account.

    On equipment templates

    I would be ecstatic if equipment tabs were account-wide. It's highly unlikely at current prices since they would be giving out immense amounts of storage to people with large amounts of characters when bag slots are 400gems. Right now there needs to be consideration of edge cases such as 20-60 character slots (an absolute scrolling nightmare at login screen) as well as the bare minimum character slots (5?) for paid accounts. For reference, the account-wide crafting license is 800 gems each that allows an additional crafting profession per character and has no added benefits outside crafting. Ultimately if you have full legendary armor you would want at least 4 tabs to make it semi-worthwhile vs ascended , despite losing wardrobe options and gaining no additional storage. People with legendary weapons don't gain nearly as much since weapons are generally power or condi unless traits are what apply condis (see guardian scepter or axe , necro scepter or axe , ele sword, mesmer torch, engi rifle/pistols, etc).
    In addition, before release the templates were compared with bag slots, and ultimately these are close enough within reason of a bag slot when you account for hotkeying functionality and extreme cases of gear where the trinkets+back+amulets and armor+runes, weapons+sigils are all different in each template.

    The likely rationale for 2 equipment templates

    As I stated before, because so many people don't run support builds and generally are berserker's + viper's only that's likely the reason there's 2 tabs. You're only looking at around 2-6 equipment tabs for the common quickness firebrand, alacrity renegade, heal tempest (basically for 10 man instanced content), boon chrono , heal scourge (barrier), heal druid (assuming you use tab 2 for condi ; it's more for raids and/or strike missions than for casual stuff) if you're semi-casual PvE only. Heal scrapper I would consider rarer. The out of combat change for engineer and elementalist means there's no reason to get a template for staff & scepter+warhorn versus power sword+dagger (you'd need one for heal tempest but for condi it's sword+focus and dagger+warhorn); rifle & sword+pistol or sword+shield can be used on engineer so the 2nd tab is basically condi dual pistol. If you bought extra storage in the form of bag slots and can take the annoyance of swapping all your gear on 2nd tab (save first for power builds) then you technically can get away without buying any equipment tabs. When commander's gear chrono was the common support with leadership runes it was a much rougher time overall since that's harder to come by for PvE players than firebrand , scholar , or pack runes.

    The impact on WvW

    Daily WvW players on the other hand need an additional template for just about every class because nearly everyone runs vitality/toughness. Minstrel firebrand is definitely one template if you play it, minstrel scrapper is one if you play it (DPS gyros separate), marauder spellbreaker, marauder weaver, frontline marauder rev (toughness from durability rune), minstrel aura tempest, marauder staff daredevil, etc. It's sort of optional if you run hammer rev and when it was mostly cele-scourge heavy play, power scourges could get away with berserker's as well. Mesmers fell out of favor generally due to stealth gyro, and non-soulbeast rangers have innate issues with pets in squad play.

    Build storage/templates

    It's probably better overall if build storage and build templates took a major hit to pricing first. It's a much easier tweak than equipment template monetization I'd imagine because items , character binding , and inventory aren't involved. Additionally people that already paid could be increased accordingly without any need for refunds (i.e. if a 500 gems purchase = 9 slots , everyone that paid for the 500 gems for 3 slots gets 9 instead). Build storage could be cut closer to the point of bank tab monetization that was mentioned before templates' release (i.e. 400 gems=20 "slots" or 600 gems = 30 "slots" , or at least 9 per 500 gems) and the maximum stored could be changed accordingly to something well beyond 24 (currently not even enough to store 3 builds per class , ideally you'd want to be able to store at least 1 additional build for competitive game modes). Right now $35 of real money gets you 2,800 gems which means even if you wanted to max out your build templates (which is 24 total) you wouldn't be able to , as you would need 6x purchases of 500 gems per 3 which comes out to 3,000 gems. I'm sure most people would rather just use an external method for build storage as a result.

    There's an argument to be had for build templates because they are hot-keyed ; for PvP there's no build swapping mid match so it's only relevant for PvE/WvW. PvP players would be far more likely to buy build storage. Additionally, I don't see a reason why build templates couldn't be account-wide (i.e. you gain an additional tab per character similar to additional crafting license that costs 800 gems). To make it more enticing for people to pay for it over a character slot it would have to be something along the lines of account-wide unlock or designation of default 2 PvE/ WvW, 1 PvP-only build template instead of 3 templates freely used in any mode similar to the equipment templates. As mentioned previously an accountwide crafting license is 800 gems. The price on build templates could be changed accordingly to 800-1000 gems per tab for example (equal to 3-4 characters ; fully unlocking 3 additional tabs would still cost around the price of an expansion but wouldn't be as ludicrous as 1 per 9+ characters coming out to 2700+ gems). It wouldn't afford the flexibility of per character unlocks for people that use few hotkey-swap worthy builds except on a few characters which is why build storage pricing would need to be decreased alongside such a change. In actuality, per gw2efficiency the playtime people have on engineers and revenants is far lower than on other classes.
    Per class if we only look at meta PVE builds:

    • Guardian (>15% of player hours): Power DH, Condi FB, Condi Quickness, Power Quickness , Heal = 5 , but likely closer to 3 if heal + condi non quickness is unused
      ---> due to the rune/amulet variance as well as the weapon variance between the power as well as condi variants it is not viable to use 2 equipment templates, so build templates need to be considered along with equipment templates in order to attain boon duration.
      ---> if a player only has the option of 2 equipment templates the most likely combination is Power DH and template 2 for condi quickness with firebrand runes (power quickness requires diviner gear)

    • Warrior (14% of player hours): Banner (Berserker 2 variants/Core) , Power Berserker , Condition Berserker , Power spellbreaker = 6 , but generally closer to 4 due to power builds being dominant
      ---> double axe berserker's + scholar rune (or thief) covers just about every variant of power banner or power berserker ; because banners aren't boons the condi variants share the same gearing as well so this is a semi-viable 2 equipment template PVE-only character

    • Ranger (~13.5% of player hours): Power Soulbeast, Condi Soulbeast, Condi Druid, Heal Druid, any form of non-DPS (tank/handkite or other) = 5 , but for general userbase I'd say the 2 build power Soulbeast and harrier druid is most common

    • Elementalist (13% of player hours): Power weaver, Condi weaver, Power tempest , Condi tempest, Heal tempest = 5
      ---> namely the power variants (as well as the condi variants) share the same armor+ runes+trinkets and due to the new weapon swap elementalists received, this is a viable "build swap only" character for a 2 equipment template player that doesn't run support

    • Necromancer (12.5% of player hours): Power reaper, condi scourge, heal scourge = 3
      ---> Because there's only 3 meta builds and only power reaper is favored when rampup is not an option you're basically not going to purchase equipment or build templates for a necro unless theorycrafting or WVWing

    • Mesmer (11% of player hours) : Power boon chrono, Power Chrono, Condi Mirage, Condition Boon chrono , Condition chrono = 5 , but likely closer to 3 since condition type chrono is less common than condition mirages
      ---> There was a post previously about someone using 30 builds on their chrono ,which is extreme min-maxing but for typical openworld players I don't expect anything more than power chrono (or power boon chrono with closer to 60% boon duration rather than near 100% to fit more damage) and condition mirage. As with the guardian due to the boon duration reliance and rune variance this is a character that is problematic with respect to avoiding template purchasing

    • Thief (10% of player hours) : Power rifle deadeye (with swap to daggers), power staff daredevil , power dagger deadeye , boon core thief (pretty much raid only), boon daredevil (pretty much raid only) = 3 to 5 (not counting condi builds)
      ---> since boon thieves are only a reality in raid environments, you're looking at maybe 2 equipments ; if you don't use rifle an equipment template with zerk+scholar and dual daggers + staff covers multiple builds

    • Engineer (~6% player hours) : Power holo, condi holo, condi core engi, heal scrapper = 4 , but most people will not play condi core engineer and probably not condi holo either
      ---> gear is the same between the condi builds (dual pistol) since engineers rely on kits ; if you run rifle it can fit on the same equipment template as sword+pistol

    • Revenant (~4% player hours) : Power "boon" herald (facets), alacrity renegade, condi renegade, heal renegade , any form of "hand kite" herald = 5 but most likely 2-3
      ---> due to the reliance on gear for boon duration in alacrity renegade and healing power for heal renegade, I expect most players to opt for power boon herald and diviner alacrity renegade only

    As a result I'd say 10 templates or so is a reasonable expectation to price against (for all 3 tabs unlocked) for the PvE-only playerbase if it were an account-wide unlock. As stated above, if you use berserker's+viper's gear as the baseline standard (i.e. the most likely 2 equipment tabs for PVE-only players not doing instanced content) then you can drop every heal support build (druid/scourge/scrapper/tempest) from the above and relegate them to build storage priority as well as single target rifle deadeyes and condi builds with ramp-up (condi scourge, condi mesmers, condi engi, etc) due to conditions other than burning.

    For WvW you're looking at mainly firebrand, spellbreaker (includes support spellbreaker), GS marauder berserkers, scrapper (minstrel or DPS), herald (backline or frontline), scourge (cele or power), weaver / aura tempest, power staff daredevil. Mirage and soulbeast are generally seen roaming and power reaper is starting to pick up again.
    (Only 1 PvP build can be activated during a match so PVP is not a consideration for build templates, only WvW.)

  • Balthzar.3807Balthzar.3807 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Balthzar.3807 said:
    Just do the right thing and give 3 build and 3 equipment for each toon it makes 0 sense not to.... unless that is you want to manipulate the situation so that out of frustration people buy at least 1 equipment slot per toon.

    I know you won't but it doesn't hurt to ask and at the end of the day I am still never going to spend another dime of my money on this game. You have just started reaching way to deeply into people's pockets.

    So we got 1 extra equipment slot for free since before both wvw and pve used the same one now we got 2.
    Since spvp dont use the equipment slots per say, instead amulet and rune + your blank weapons there was no need for a third equipment slot.

    if you look at my past posts I have said they need to do a heck of a lot more but we know NCSOFT west won't do anything.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @deadlyjoker.4907 said:
    You guys didn't really listen do you? REMOVE THE PAYWALL

    The regular Gem Shop stuff doesn't cut it anymore, so they need paid QoL to pay their employees.

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    I see there is a new sorting menu for build storages. Is this a joke? How is this high priority?
    A total of zero people complained about not being able to find a build in the list. As opposed to all the real bugs and issues that have been reported repeatedly.

    But I guess at least this is proof someone is still working on it...

  • Cuddy.6247Cuddy.6247 Member ✭✭✭

    Don't worry guys we got capes, so build templates are no longer an aggressively monetized grift.

    I'll be in Guild Wars 1 until Arena Net stops monetizing build templates.

  • LaFurion.3167LaFurion.3167 Member ✭✭✭

    Since the introduction of templates I have been in a bit of a weird situation. I have been able to quickly swap both builds and equipment sets at the push of a button, yes.

    However.... I'm noticing that more often than not, I am now forced to think really hard about whether I want to do a certain mode of the game on a certain character, because I don't have enough build or equipment slots to play an efficient build for that mode.

    An example; I have 4 equipment slots and 4 build slots on my warrior (I bought the extra ones as it is my most played character). The four builds I run are Berserker zerging for wvw, Spellbreaker zerging for wvw, Core warrior roaming for wvw, and Spell breaker roaming for WvW. Now I swap between these builds very regularly. I live in NZ, so in peak times I can happily swap between zerg builds, and when its down time with less people I roam on the roaming builds depending what I feel like.

    Here is the problem though. Even though I have spent quite a bit of money, if I want to do any PvE content on my warrior, I have to essentially "give up" both an equipment slot and build slot, as the templates arnt actually "locked" and then saved. So I default to using my Berserker roaming build (which has greatsword and 2 axes spin to win) for any pve content... but its highly ineffecient, because taking stances for wvw etc, and again, I can't really swap them without having to change them back later, and if I forget to swap back a trait or ability then.. well thats that.

    And thats on a character I bought some templates for. My necro now is limited to Open world reaper minion master, and celestial scourge for wvw. And if I want to do some roaming on it in wvw? Welp... i guess id better use my inefficient reaper minion master build in wvw.... can't tweak it without opening note pad on all the little (and big) things that I changed to make it work temporarily....

    This whole thing can be solved in either 2 ways (these are my solutions, there may be other ways). I hope that this feedback will reach Anet and they will act on it somehow...

    1) Templates cost less, or you get more per the current price. Realistically I would probably need something like 6-10 builds per character. I know before templates came out, people had upwards of 20 per character for certain raid encounters/fractal runs/wvw builds etc. But this is unaffordable! I play 8 classes (the only one i dont touch being ele)... And i want to be able to freely play them all in whichever way I feel like at the time, but without any save button, and the high price of templates... I am finding certain characters of mine locked out of content because I really dont want to change my build templates and change them back etc.... I would say a reasonable price of template is 100 gems per build template and 100 gems per gear template, maybe 150.

    2) Give us a save button that LOCKS the SAVED template. You are free to tinker with build and stuff, but if you click on the template again it will undo all the little tweaks and changes that you have made and go back to the original template. While its not perfectly efficient, I would be happy with even this.

    3) give us something, anything, to give me freedom. Templates were supposed to be a good thing. Now, inbetween worrying about whether I lost a legendary among my template builds, why I have an extra sigil of force in my bag and going through all my builds to check if one of my builds is missing a sigil, and removing ONE item and having to check through ALL my builds to make sure that I am not missing a piece of gear on said template... ugh.

    For a quality of life that took so long to come out, its really inconvenient at times. I am grateful, but it could be so much better.

  • Sadly, I am fully agreeing with everything you said. While the templates are a very welcome feature, I dont feel that they enhance the quality of life in any way. They are severely limiting and, ironically, punishing for players that play more of the game than others.

    While I understand the price and limit on equipment templates (they act, after all, as additionnal storage space for equipments which is a non negligeable advantage), I cannot imagine how they could believe that the price and limit on build templates is in any way reasonable. Considering the sheer amount of possibilities build-wise this game has to offer, six is insufficient (and, of course, that is if you buy them all on each character). While the account storage helps, they are again insufficient, EVEN if you buy them all and reach the limit.

    Lets just list the minimum amount of different possible builds you could want, if you play all game modes on a single profession :

    • Condi DPS for PVE
    • Power DPS for PVE
    • Healing/support for PVE
    • Solo open-world build for PVE
    • Zerging WvW
    • Roaming WvW
    • PvP build following actual meta

    So, that is 7 different build, and we're considering one for basic roles you would like to fulfill in different situations. What if you like to vary your playstyle ? What if you have more specific builds for niche situations ? As I said, the build possibilities for this game are endless, and it's a shame not to be able to freely play with all of those.

    So, just for one profession, you would want 7 builds. If you play all professions and stay with the minimum amount of templates on your character you would need, at minimum, 36 account storage slots to have all the builds you need available. You can't even have that many templates so this solution is a no-go. Also, account storage doesnt account for equipment templates so you would still need to buy those.

    If you decide to buy all templates for all characters, let's calculate the cost.

    • For one profession, you would need to buy 4 equipment templates (2000 gems) and 3 build templates (900 gems) for a total of 2900 gems.
    • For 9 professions (so, 9 characters only), you would need 26 100 gems, which is a little over 300$ (!!!)
      AND, even if you spend 300$ on templates, you would STILL need to store 9 builds on account storage, which would cost 1000 gems for the additionnal 6 slots you would need to buy. Again, that is not accounting for anyone who like to play around and vary their playstyle.

    I dont understand the reasoning behind all of this.

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    One option for build templates is to save the chat codes somewhere on your computer and then load them from there. It takes a little bit longer than switching to a template you have loaded, but it's free and there's no limit on how many builds you can save and swap between.

    Thank you! I never thought to do this.

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • Skotlex.7580Skotlex.7580 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I do agree that the current design punishes certain type of players, namely those who have tons of alts and/or play multiple game modes.

    The current default implementation mimics what we had before build templates, meaning we didn't actually earn anything until we buy slots with gems (unless you stick to a single game mode, then you earned two build templates and one gear template).

    Personally, I'd make build / gear template expansions account wide, so that buying one will add it to all current and future characters. It's of course reasonable to increase prices if this passed. But... now the situation is reverted, the new system would punish players who don't alt. What other solution could exist?

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    I do agree that the current design punishes certain type of players, namely those who have tons of alts and/or play multiple game modes.

    That depends on how an individual utilizes the alts. Players with alts are at an advantage now if they have a character dedicated to a single game mode and are not limited in access to ascended or exotic gear.

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    The current default implementation mimics what we had before build templates, meaning we didn't actually earn anything until we buy slots with gems (unless you stick to a single game mode, then you earned two build templates and one gear template).

    It mimics it and adds exactly 1 extra equipment template for everyone as well allowing to make use of the 3 build templates which were previously locked to pve, spvp and wvw now free at will.

    @Skotlex.7580 said:
    Personally, I'd make build / gear template expansions account wide, so that buying one will add it to all current and future characters. It's of course reasonable to increase prices if this passed. But... now the situation is reverted, the new system would punish players who don't alt. What other solution could exist?

    I doubt they will ever release account wide upgrade for all characters. It would be impossible to scale. Players like me with 30 characters would immediately get the account wide version versus the character unique versions. Players with less characters would be disadvantaged at certain prices.

    I do believe they should offer discounts on getting a character ALL the upgrades similar to the living world bundles. I wouldn't even mind myself even though I have 3 characters with all 6 tabs unlocked and multiple characters with 4-5. It would encourage sales and solve the issue of buying extra character slots being more cost efficient (if not accounting for gear).

  • Lexi.1398Lexi.1398 Member ✭✭✭

    I will note buying a whole new character slot has always been cheaper than buying extra inventory bag slots if you want more holding space. This became especially so with lv80 gear drops universally changing to unid gear resulting in very few reasons to have more than 15 slot bags in each slot anyway.

    For build/gear templates, this only becomes exponentially even better to buy a whole character slot instead of buying a build/gear template. In fact, it almost costs the same to buy 1 additional build template and 1 equipment template for a given character, compared to buying a whole new character slot which gets you at minimum double.

    For raids and fractals this is even beneficial in upkeep costs as you can spend less on food/util swapping for each build, pvp builds can be on lv1 characters, so only really wvw builds have any large gain out of having all builds on one character (swapping characters does not earn you a reserved place on map). The time loss in swapping characters is very minor and i say that on a potato computer which takes years to load maps.

    Now, i have about 87987847 mesmer builds and half of those are variants in gear i use on (raid) support chrono role, but i know i'll always be left to swap manually there unless we get about 25 equipment templates AND the function of legendaries is fixed.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    One option for build templates is to save the chat codes somewhere on your computer and then load them from there. It takes a little bit longer than switching to a template you have loaded, but it's free and there's no limit on how many builds you can save and swap between.

    Also it might be worth thinking about if you really need all these different builds. I typically have 1 build per character for PvE,which I use for everything except raids (and high end Fractals, which I don't do). Sometimes I might swap one skill, but I don't make enough changes that it's difficult to swap it back unless I'm redesigning the build (and then I save the chat code so I can revert back if I need to).

    Likewise a lot of my characters will use the same equipment for PvE and WvW. I pick something which works for WvW and then just keep it in PvE because it doesn't matter that much what you're using, and I prefer to have some defensive stats anyway.

    If you have a spare guild slot(or 5 I guess ...) you can store a bunch of the codes in the motd instead.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2019

    Yes the templates are really pricey if you play multiple classes, but it's purely optional. Your best bet if you play multiple game modes (especially fractals due to food & potion timers) is using different character slots since you will be able to use 2 equipment templates for that mode.
    I wouldn't buy build storage at all in its current monetization state, just save the chat codes ; build templates might be worth it if you often play more than one build in PvE/WvW since they're hotkeyed. For PvP since builds are locked in once the match starts and you have over a minute to change build, there isn't a reason for buying a template to do PvP. The convenience of not having to swap all armor+weapons+trinkets+runes & sigils &infusions (if you have legendary armor) far outweighs the convenience of not having to copy+paste a chatcode which amounts to 3 traitlines + 9 options ...

    For most users it's probably best to buy a character slot for WvW/PvP since you'd have 2 equipment templates and 3 build templates. The main offender is guardian since there's just so many builds per game mode (power,condi, quickness support, heal) with mesmer a close second if you play it in PvE (power,condi, boon). It's worse if there's rune swapping (see quickness Firebrand and boon mesmers) and much less painful if it's a weapon swap or armor stat swap (legendary has a checkbox to apply to all armor pieces). The least templates would probably be for power+condi elementalist since you can use sword+dagger (weaver) and scepter+warhorn (tempest) on the same equipment template , with the second tab covering sword+dagger condi and dagger+warhorn (tempest) presuming you don't play heal tempest. Engineer, with its reliance on kits is also a low equipment template demand if you don't play condi since you can use the first for power (rifle/sword+pistol/sword+shield for prot holo) and the second for scrapper (WvW).

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2019

    It's not "expensive to play". I disagree with template pricing, so I don't buy them and I play like I did while freeing inventory slots from putting additional gear in the equipment tab. I swap manually when needed, it's not a problem and in no way it's obligatory.

  • They should have done it differently.

    Equipment templates and build templates, yay. But let us lock them and give us a "free build" mode in which we can modify with whatever changeable build we want/need without changing our saved equip/trait builds.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2019

    feel free to disagree with me, because i disagree with OP's statement

    it is expensive because you go down the path of wanting to play multiple builds, and want to be able to quickly switch between them
    this is like going to car dealer to buy a Toyota Camry, instead of buying the standard model, you buy the one with leather seats, 8 speakers setup, premium paint

    ok, you may say, "oh, but I could do it for free before with Arc, which is a massive thread elsewhere already"
    it existed only because Anet allowed it, Anet have all the rights to deny ArcDPS, or other injection type of software from their game

    other games like BDO, the micro transaction (like $20 for a single item :astonished: ) is essential, it's basically unplayable after awakening (equivalent of GW2 elite spec)
    you spend 30min riding horse to farm spot, farm for 10-15min your bag is full, and you need spend another 30min riding back to town to sell stuffs; and the pet, gosh...

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2019

    Personally you are better to buy a new character slot, you get three builds and two gear slots.. three new characters (6 builds) on sale is far cheaper than all the template fiasco.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TwoGhosts.6790 said:
    The implementation of Anet's so called build templates is appalling, certainly when compared to the brilliant solution many people were already using and can no longer use; Arc Templates.
    The monetisation structure they have adopted for it is repugnant.

    You do realize there's a difference between what developers may want to do and what corporate may want you to do right? I would blame the methodology of the build/gear templates squarely on NCSoft and not ArenaNet...and as someone else posted above, it was always known, from the beginning, that the ARC templates would go away as soon as ArenaNet released there's, an agreement is an agreement, something a lot of people don't live up to in today's world.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @TwoGhosts.6790 said:
    The implementation of Anet's so called build templates is appalling, certainly when compared to the brilliant solution many people were already using and can no longer use; Arc Templates.
    The monetisation structure they have adopted for it is repugnant.

    You do realize there's a difference between what developers may want to do and what corporate may want you to do right? I would blame the methodology of the build/gear templates squarely on NCSoft and not ArenaNet...and as someone else posted above, it was always known, from the beginning, that the ARC templates would go away as soon as ArenaNet released there's, an agreement is an agreement, something a lot of people don't live up to in today's world.

    I'm not sure we can say whether it's NCSoft's monetization policy vs ArenaNet's policy, really. To (forumites and players), it's a black box. I do see the difference between the (software engineer, artist, writer, etc.) and management, though.

  • @Zaklex.6308 said:

    @TwoGhosts.6790 said:
    The implementation of Anet's so called build templates is appalling, certainly when compared to the brilliant solution many people were already using and can no longer use; Arc Templates.
    The monetisation structure they have adopted for it is repugnant.

    You do realize there's a difference between what developers may want to do and what corporate may want you to do right? I would blame the methodology of the build/gear templates squarely on NCSoft and not ArenaNet...and as someone else posted above, it was always known, from the beginning, that the ARC templates would go away as soon as ArenaNet released there's, an agreement is an agreement, something a lot of people don't live up to in today's world.

    The first is plausible.
    The second is stating the obvious.
    Neither changes the facts of my original statement.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2019

    wow. I think its impossible to please the modern mmo gamer. they could do better with templates sure, but people got what they asked for and if some of those people weren't expecting a heavily monetized system then they were living in a bubble.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Also, just to be clear.
    I have no problem with paying a reasonable price for a good quality product.
    The problem is that it's a ridiculous price for a shity product.
    It represents a massive loss of QOL for me in the game, and a major source of frustration and loss of motivation in playing the game the way I had come to enjoy with ARC Templates.
    I have stated elsewhere that I would happily spend 5000 gems on an Anet solution that offered the same elegant, reliable and open-ended solution to templates that ARC did.
    But I'm not going to spend a penny on the kitten that we have at the moment.
    Those players that used ARC and/or have legendary items will understand my anger and frustration. Those that don't probably won't.
    And that's the greatest irony of Anet's so-called templates launch; those players who would make the most use of a templates system are the ones most alienated by the system as it stands. GG.

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    What I hated is how it made you click on equipment every time you open the hero panel and then now it opens up the novelties so now I have to click out of that and then equipment every time I open it now. I am sure they will offer some more gemstore kitten to get it back the way it used to be which kitten this is making me want to just go back to a game I played before even playing this one.

    Someone need to redefine what Quality of Life means and it doesn't mean this kitten Ugggghhhh(and no I am not paying anything at all for this kitten that ship has sailed).

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    almost cool, but a little bit strange that I can't bind spvp weapons to automatic pvp build, and always need hand by hand swap it.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2019

    It is factually cheaper now since the basic free-for-all part of the templates gives you exactly what you had before plus free inventory space on each of your characters. Thus saving you bag/bank space you dont have to buy.

    Now, most of us have already bought that bag/bank space long ago, but it doesnt alter this fact.

    Somehow the template situation seem to reflect real life today, sigh.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    It is factually cheaper now since the basic free-for-all part of the templates gives you exactly what you had before plus free inventory space on each of your characters. Thus saving you bag/bank space you dont have to buy.

    Now, most of us have already bought that bag/bank space long ago, but it doesnt alter this fact.

    Somehow the template situation seem to reflect real life today, sigh.

    I agree. It's a direct parallel to the ppl who complain about p2w arguing that they had to buy the game three times to keep up with power creep, ignoring the fact that new players are getting more for less. It is very difficult for most players to see beyond their immediate experience . . .

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the new system is good for regular pve player, but punish too much the typical wvw crowd.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • I agree with the OP. I have one set of legendary light armor. I main a Necro (not so much anymore given the constant stream of nerfs). If I have two equipment templates, I have to load each one to remove the armor, before I can put the items in the bank, so I can load the armor onto my ele or mesmer. Since each build has different Runes and, possible, different infusions, not only do I get 6 new items into my inventory, but 6 runes and 6 infusions - essentially, the armor has all the upgrades removed. It's just a really tedious process that equipment templates have NOT made simpler.

    Since you can't save equipment templates like you can build templates, it's a manual process when switching from character to character. Before you just removed the armor, it kept all the upgrades, put it all into the bank, then log and load up your other character. Now it's a bunch of fiddling around.

    Equipment templates were poorly thought out and do not take into account legendary gear.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    It's not "expensive to play". I disagree with template pricing, so I don't buy them and I play like I did while freeing inventory slots from putting additional gear in the equipment tab. I swap manually when needed, it's not a problem and in no way it's obligatory.

    Unless you have minmaxed gear and dont remember all the assassin pieces and precise infusions it needs with different runes

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2019

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    It's not "expensive to play". I disagree with template pricing, so I don't buy them and I play like I did while freeing inventory slots from putting additional gear in the equipment tab. I swap manually when needed, it's not a problem and in no way it's obligatory.

    Unless you have minmaxed gear and dont remember all the assassin pieces and precise infusions it needs with different runes

    And then what? How does it make it obligatory? If you don't remember your builds then it's your problem lmao.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @misterman.1530 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    It's not "expensive to play". I disagree with template pricing, so I don't buy them and I play like I did while freeing inventory slots from putting additional gear in the equipment tab. I swap manually when needed, it's not a problem and in no way it's obligatory.

    Unless you have minmaxed gear and dont remember all the assassin pieces and precise infusions it needs with different runes

    And then what? How does it make it obligatory? If you don't remember your builds then it's your problem lmao.

    Wow. All the time you insult other players. ALL the time. It's bizarre, really.

    How did I insult anyone here? At which point exactly?