Predict the strongest 1 vs 1 class after the patch — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Predict the strongest 1 vs 1 class after the patch

EremiteAngel.9765EremiteAngel.9765 Member ✭✭✭✭

Predict which will be the strongest 1 vs 1 roaming impromptu fight class after the patch!

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Predict the strongest 1 vs 1 class after the patch 123 votes

Elementalist
4%
Nimon.7840ChronosCosmos.9450Saber Lily.1960thepolishman.2348kamikharzeeh.8016 5 votes
Necro
6%
Spurnshadow.3678Turk.5460Fleebag.1384catalyst.1358Dadnir.5038pointaction.4639Bjerger king.7498Momekic.8603 8 votes
Mesmer
4%
Kovu.7560Wisdom.4712Bigpapasmurf.5623Acheron.4731Joonmo.7523Blueguil.5762 6 votes
Thief
52%
Red Haired Savage.5430anduriell.6280Arioch.6507Arzurag.7506Svarty.8019Diabolo.4876Hexalot.8194XenesisII.1540Blockhead Magee.3092Nimrod.9240Gryxis.6950Ekolix.2961Buran.3796Junkpile.7439K THEN.5162Ben K.6238Kossuth.2168Sandzibar.5134Phyxrgon.7305Shining One.1635 65 votes
Ranger
7%
FrownyClown.8402Simonoly.4352Balthazzarr.1349hobotnicax.7918Agriope.4523bluberblasen.9684Psycoprophet.8107L A T I O N.8923SexyMofo.8923 9 votes
Engineer
6%
Dralor.3701Raiden The Beast.3016PierPiero.9142Saleerian.2973Providence.9456Widmo.3186Zexanima.7851BoostedFC.6812 8 votes
Warrior
5%
EremiteAngel.9765Zero.3871Virtuality.8351Drxx.3819rng.1024Otanikun.8701Pumba.5047 7 votes
Revenant
8%
Undo.5091luizplayer.1250kajoken.1630eLfocus.8961KurokawaKazuma.8641Alyster.9470dragontree.8092Fearless.3569Antipode.7830Blackhawk.3951 10 votes
Guardian
4%
Crypto.7609Sanity Obscure.6054Sir Vincent III.1286Anklot.3274ZDragon.3046 5 votes
<1

Comments

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    First to vote. Yeet.
    Thief, because stealth is still op and with less dmg around they are even harder to nuke down, so they will just stealth and reset the fight until they finally win.

    Less dmg from them to so more time to escape to a safty

  • @RedShark.9548 said:
    First to vote. Yeet.
    Thief, because stealth is still op and with less dmg around they are even harder to nuke down, so they will just stealth and reset the fight until they finally win.

    Yes....and no.

    I am undecided, and probbaly will be until it goes live. However in a 1vs1, after the dmg nerfs that thief also received, spending that much time in stealth with the unchanged HP pool, it will not be super easy for them to kill something, they will need to spend more time out of stealth to deal that dmg, so I am unsure if it will be the strongest 1vs1 class.

    It will however, I think be one of the stronger roaming classes, if not the best, because with reduced spike and high stealth up time it means that if the thief doesn't want to die, they wont. That is close to the case now, unless they over invest into a fight or get over confident. After the patch they have that much more room to stealth and get away. Same for "perm stealth" builds and killing one in a keep.

    Stealth is one of those things that is defensive and offensive at the same time, how it also didn't see large reductions as well, I don't really understand. Being that many other defensive skills, traits and auto procs are being nerfed across the board including on thief, it will probably make stealth even more valuable to them, meaning I expect to see builds with more high stealth uptime than we see now.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    First to vote. Yeet.
    Thief, because stealth is still op and with less dmg around they are even harder to nuke down, so they will just stealth and reset the fight until they finally win.

    Less dmg from them to so more time to escape to a safty

    Yea, but still only that option, run and hide, thats fun, right?
    Why even try to fight them, when you know you wont have a chance in killing them, because stealth and run fast af.

    That only shows how broken stealth as a mechanic

    Shadow arts assassins sig is pure cheese and yes they are not fun to fight all. Standard daredevil d/p and stealtheless thievs like sword thieves, even condi thieves are a bit more exciting than "perma stealth" they wanted to lower the power creap but left assassins signet untouched...good 1

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    First to vote. Yeet.
    Thief, because stealth is still op and with less dmg around they are even harder to nuke down, so they will just stealth and reset the fight until they finally win.

    Yes....and no.

    I am undecided, and probbaly will be until it goes live. However in a 1vs1, after the dmg nerfs that thief also received, spending that much time in stealth with the unchanged HP pool, it will not be super easy for them to kill something, they will need to spend more time out of stealth to deal that dmg, so I am unsure if it will be the strongest 1vs1 class.

    It will however, I think be one of the stronger roaming classes, if not the best, because with reduced spike and high stealth up time it means that if the thief doesn't want to die, they wont. That is close to the case now, unless they over invest into a fight or get over confident. After the patch they have that much more room to stealth and get away. Same for "perm stealth" builds and killing one in a keep.

    Stealth is one of those things that is defensive and offensive at the same time, how it also didn't see large reductions as well, I don't really understand. Being that many other defensive skills, traits and auto procs are being nerfed across the board including on thief, it will probably make stealth even more valuable to them, meaning I expect to see builds with more high stealth uptime than we see now.

    Also got to look at other builds theif will face, ranger for example has prot on dodge and weakness on taking dmg, dunno if they have been changed but that shut down most theif builds unless you went 1 shot option. So even if all dmg across the game is nerfed the things like this will be even more harder to kill

  • Necro

    Even though the condition Stacks will be less but I think the condition builds of all professions will be stronger.

  • it will always be teef

    Te lazla otstara.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Thief

    Stealth needs a rework, talking from a ranger perspective as well.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Thief

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    First to vote. Yeet.
    Thief, because stealth is still op and with less dmg around they are even harder to nuke down, so they will just stealth and reset the fight until they finally win.

    Yes....and no.

    I am undecided, and probbaly will be until it goes live. However in a 1vs1, after the dmg nerfs that thief also received, spending that much time in stealth with the unchanged HP pool, it will not be super easy for them to kill something, they will need to spend more time out of stealth to deal that dmg, so I am unsure if it will be the strongest 1vs1 class.

    It will however, I think be one of the stronger roaming classes, if not the best, because with reduced spike and high stealth up time it means that if the thief doesn't want to die, they wont. That is close to the case now, unless they over invest into a fight or get over confident. After the patch they have that much more room to stealth and get away. Same for "perm stealth" builds and killing one in a keep.

    Stealth is one of those things that is defensive and offensive at the same time, how it also didn't see large reductions as well, I don't really understand. Being that many other defensive skills, traits and auto procs are being nerfed across the board including on thief, it will probably make stealth even more valuable to them, meaning I expect to see builds with more high stealth uptime than we see now.

    Thats basically all i said, just more fleshed out, i know that they do less dmg aswell, but thats why i used the word "finally", implies a long fight/lots of resets, also includes the enemy dying off old age.

    They might not be the strongest one if we only take 1 engage and dont count resets, they might be repelled multiple times, but due to the nature of stealth and thief mobility they can try and try again, unlike other classes, necro for example, in most cases they either win a fight or die trying, because they wont be getting away from a thief.

    Thats why thief and mesmer too will probably reign supreme, atleast in my book of how a duel ends.

  • I think Condi builds are coming back full force.

  • jaif.3518jaif.3518 Member ✭✭✭
    Thief

    Pistol dagger thief.

  • @RedShark.9548 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    First to vote. Yeet.
    Thief, because stealth is still op and with less dmg around they are even harder to nuke down, so they will just stealth and reset the fight until they finally win.

    Yes....and no.

    I am undecided, and probbaly will be until it goes live. However in a 1vs1, after the dmg nerfs that thief also received, spending that much time in stealth with the unchanged HP pool, it will not be super easy for them to kill something, they will need to spend more time out of stealth to deal that dmg, so I am unsure if it will be the strongest 1vs1 class.

    It will however, I think be one of the stronger roaming classes, if not the best, because with reduced spike and high stealth up time it means that if the thief doesn't want to die, they wont. That is close to the case now, unless they over invest into a fight or get over confident. After the patch they have that much more room to stealth and get away. Same for "perm stealth" builds and killing one in a keep.

    Stealth is one of those things that is defensive and offensive at the same time, how it also didn't see large reductions as well, I don't really understand. Being that many other defensive skills, traits and auto procs are being nerfed across the board including on thief, it will probably make stealth even more valuable to them, meaning I expect to see builds with more high stealth uptime than we see now.

    Thats basically all i said, just more fleshed out, i know that they do less dmg aswell, but thats why i used the word "finally", implies a long fight/lots of resets, also includes the enemy dying off old age.

    They might not be the strongest one if we only take 1 engage and dont count resets, they might be repelled multiple times, but due to the nature of stealth and thief mobility they can try and try again, unlike other classes, necro for example, in most cases they either win a fight or die trying, because they wont be getting away from a thief.

    Thats why thief and mesmer too will probably reign supreme, atleast in my book of how a duel ends.

    Wasn't a correction, rather more a feeding off of quote. I think it comes down to how I view "1vs1", which is more of who will die, as in a duel. While roaming is far more wide and running from a fight you can't win (or wasting 4+ peoples time) in roaming is actually the correct choice, and thief gets the crown here, even in the current meta.

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    First to vote. Yeet.
    Thief, because stealth is still op and with less dmg around they are even harder to nuke down, so they will just stealth and reset the fight until they finally win.

    Less dmg from them to so more time to escape to a safty

    Yeah just escape from by far the most mobile class in the game xD

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Thief

    Predict the strongest 1 vs 1 class after the patch

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Mesmer

    Condi will be king again for a while so I went with Mesmer (condi mirage specifically)

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Something tells me that condi rev will be like mirage during early PoF.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Necro

    I put my bet on the necromancer minionmaster. An increase of the ttk will allow minions to survive and have the time to react when their master is under fire.

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020
    Thief

    With lower sustain you won't need to stack condis to the sky to kill things. Which means condi thief becomes very dangerous, though core mesmer might also be effective.

  • Thief

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Condi will be king again for a while so I went with Mesmer (condi mirage specifically)

    Mirage is getting a huge nerf though

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Mesmer

    @Gryxis.6950 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Condi will be king again for a while so I went with Mesmer (condi mirage specifically)

    Mirage is getting a huge nerf though

    I believe that it still may be strong post patch. Its ability to reapply condis synergizes well

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • Thief

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    I believe that it still may be strong post patch. Its ability to reapply condis synergizes well

    It's not really about that that this nerf is about, the problem is that mirage loses one dodge. So if he wants to use an ambush to deal damage, he has no dodges left and has barely any defense left, and if he does not use his ambush then there's no point to him being a mirage (especially considering the mirage traitline is not that good and axe is too risky to play when you only have one dodge). Core condi mesmer would most likely be stronger than mirage if you ask me

  • Ranger

    it will be bunker ranger.
    it was always bunker ranger.
    it was NEVER pew pew ranger.

    and second < thief >

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭
    Thief

    Thief. It's easy kill enemy when he can't see you.

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020
    Thief

    'They never fixed the root issue.....condi Thief will be back'

    ''hey blame arena net for nerfing a power thief'

  • Mesmer

    Power thieves are essentially nothing but a nuisance that hit like (comparatively) wet noodles in 1v1 scenarios. Sure they can gank and backstab you for high crits when you're distracted with something else, but they're poor duelists. More often then not, they are forced to run away. After the balance patch this will be exacerbated.

    Conditions will like reign supreme and trailblazer mirages will have high success.

    The Ravenwoods Thief - Simonne, Mesmer - Lucey, Warrior - Celeste, Ranger- Simon, Elementalist - Isabella, Guardian - Samantha, Necromancer - Electrik Blueberry, Engineer - MrFixit, Revenant - Melanie Malady

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    First to vote. Yeet.
    Thief, because stealth is still op and with less dmg around they are even harder to nuke down, so they will just stealth and reset the fight until they finally win.

    Yes....and no.

    I am undecided, and probbaly will be until it goes live. However in a 1vs1, after the dmg nerfs that thief also received, spending that much time in stealth with the unchanged HP pool, it will not be super easy for them to kill something, they will need to spend more time out of stealth to deal that dmg, so I am unsure if it will be the strongest 1vs1 class.

    It will however, I think be one of the stronger roaming classes, if not the best, because with reduced spike and high stealth up time it means that if the thief doesn't want to die, they wont. That is close to the case now, unless they over invest into a fight or get over confident. After the patch they have that much more room to stealth and get away. Same for "perm stealth" builds and killing one in a keep.

    Stealth is one of those things that is defensive and offensive at the same time, how it also didn't see large reductions as well, I don't really understand. Being that many other defensive skills, traits and auto procs are being nerfed across the board including on thief, it will probably make stealth even more valuable to them, meaning I expect to see builds with more high stealth uptime than we see now.

    Also got to look at other builds theif will face, ranger for example has prot on dodge and weakness on taking dmg, dunno if they have been changed but that shut down most theif builds unless you went 1 shot option. So even if all dmg across the game is nerfed the things like this will be even more harder to kill

    Bunker soulbeast is unkillable by anyone (Example: a full zerk spinal shivers removing 3 boons deals 2k critical damage to its 25k hp). That's not a thief issue. But thieves at least can comfortably avoid the fight. So yes, thief won't be able to kill some encounters. But in contrast nobody will be able to kill a thief who knows his limits and is not afk. Way too many escape options. Shadowstep, shortbow, stealth incl. increased movement speed and cleanses, dagger storm, a block for daredevil, a ridiculous backleap for rifle thieves before they vanish in stealth, tons of stunbreaks... etc.

    All this stuff while anyone else deals 30% less damage on average. If a thief was vulnerable to anything, then a coordinated burst, which will be much harder to land now.

    After the patch due to increased cooldowns and ini costs a thief has to re-engage a few seconds later to be safe, but this won't hurt him because the defensive cooldowns of its encounters are increased too. Time to kill is higher but so is the thief's escape potential.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    First to vote. Yeet.
    Thief, because stealth is still op and with less dmg around they are even harder to nuke down, so they will just stealth and reset the fight until they finally win.

    Yes....and no.

    I am undecided, and probbaly will be until it goes live. However in a 1vs1, after the dmg nerfs that thief also received, spending that much time in stealth with the unchanged HP pool, it will not be super easy for them to kill something, they will need to spend more time out of stealth to deal that dmg, so I am unsure if it will be the strongest 1vs1 class.

    It will however, I think be one of the stronger roaming classes, if not the best, because with reduced spike and high stealth up time it means that if the thief doesn't want to die, they wont. That is close to the case now, unless they over invest into a fight or get over confident. After the patch they have that much more room to stealth and get away. Same for "perm stealth" builds and killing one in a keep.

    Stealth is one of those things that is defensive and offensive at the same time, how it also didn't see large reductions as well, I don't really understand. Being that many other defensive skills, traits and auto procs are being nerfed across the board including on thief, it will probably make stealth even more valuable to them, meaning I expect to see builds with more high stealth uptime than we see now.

    Also got to look at other builds theif will face, ranger for example has prot on dodge and weakness on taking dmg, dunno if they have been changed but that shut down most theif builds unless you went 1 shot option. So even if all dmg across the game is nerfed the things like this will be even more harder to kill

    Bunker soulbeast is unkillable by anyone (Example: a full zerk spinal shivers removing 3 boons deals 2k critical damage to its 25k hp). That's not a thief issue. But thieves at least can comfortably avoid the fight. So yes, thief won't be able to kill some encounters. But in contrast nobody will be able to kill a thief who knows his limits and is not afk. Way too many escape options. Shadowstep, shortbow, stealth incl. increased movement speed and cleanses, dagger storm, a block for daredevil, a ridiculous backleap for rifle thieves before they vanish in stealth, tons of stunbreaks... etc.

    All this stuff while anyone else deals 30% less damage on average. If a thief was vulnerable to anything, then a coordinated burst, which will be much harder to land now.

    After the patch due to increased cooldowns and ini costs a thief has to re-engage a few seconds later to be safe, but this won't hurt him because the defensive cooldowns of its encounters are increased too. Time to kill is higher but so is the thief's escape potential.

    ok fair point but thief also gets 30% nerf too, did you even see nerf to theif? both passive in acrobatics gets the same as others, 300 sec on IR and 40 on pain response. And by the looks of things condi builds will be a lot more played in wvw

  • Sanity Obscure.6054Sanity Obscure.6054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020
    Guardian

    The patch hasn't even dropped, and yet I can see that hating on thieves is the meta again.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Mesmer

    I'm weirdly in agreement with the majority of posts in this thread. That doesn't usually happen. I stated my opinions on the likely upcoming state of roaming in another thread, and direct 1v1'ers are just the lawful cousins of roamers so I'll post my opinion from there, here.

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    The power stat got a massive nerf effectively, due to all of the coefficients being gutted across the board for everyone. Meanwhile sustain got a smaller nerf. You'll find fewer roamers investing as heavily into power (as it means less) and more into condition damage and defensive stats (which'll counter some of that sustain loss caused by skill nerfs). Overall fights will get longer, uncoordinated/solo bursts will be less successful.

    Therefore my prediction is that the professions with the tools to stealth and kite will have a greater edge in combats and will see improved survival odds. Thieves, mesmers mostly. Pocket firebrands will be even more impossible to kill because while (I assume, I haven't read the guardian notes) they haven't gotten much worse at what they do, the people trying to focus them down will have a more difficult time doing so -- so you'll likely see more of them in small groups. Guardians aside, tanky warrior, engineer, elementalist & ranger builds will be nigh unkillable, at best you could hope for a draw. There will be a lot more draws in power v. power fights with these changes. Will likely revert to a condi bunker meta.

    Initial thoughts.

    So on that note I feel mesmer and thief will be the strongest fighters, followed by warrior (the class that can still hit like a truck with the least investment in power), followed by the professions with better condition options (mesmer, rev), followed by the "you can't actually kill me but I probably won't kill you" elementalist, ranger and engineer builds. I voted mesmer because in what I feel will be a condition meta mirage will be more threatening than whatever thieves can put out.

    I do feel despite the guardian nerfs that pocket firebrands will be even more effective in 2-5 group skirmish scenarios than they are even now. But as this is about 1v1 scenarios... mesmer.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020
    Thief

    Thief and Mesmer are gonna be extremely powerful/problematic since they have their one weakness of being nuked being addressed.

    They aren't gonna be invincible, no, but they are gonna be very hard to kill.

    The only saving grace is that their Stealth-bursts are no longer gonna be as lethal as before, giving some builds a measure of safety while they limp out of the fight or simply tank them until the cows come home.

    People just need to think of the new balance patches forward as something like a refocusing and build with that in mind.
    1. Damage all around is being dropped
    2. This means people may not have to invest so much in durability as before to survive
    3. People will start building more offensive stats
    4. Classes previously notorious for being very durable despite building pure offense are being hard nerfed (Holos, Soulbeasts for example)

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Thief

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    I'm weirdly in agreement with the majority of posts in this thread. That doesn't usually happen. I stated my opinions on the likely upcoming state of roaming in another thread, and direct 1v1'ers are just the lawful cousins of roamers so I'll post my opinion from there, here.

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    The power stat got a massive nerf effectively, due to all of the coefficients being gutted across the board for everyone. Meanwhile sustain got a smaller nerf. You'll find fewer roamers investing as heavily into power (as it means less) and more into condition damage and defensive stats (which'll counter some of that sustain loss caused by skill nerfs). Overall fights will get longer, uncoordinated/solo bursts will be less successful.

    Therefore my prediction is that the professions with the tools to stealth and kite will have a greater edge in combats and will see improved survival odds. Thieves, mesmers mostly. Pocket firebrands will be even more impossible to kill because while (I assume, I haven't read the guardian notes) they haven't gotten much worse at what they do, the people trying to focus them down will have a more difficult time doing so -- so you'll likely see more of them in small groups. Guardians aside, tanky warrior, engineer, elementalist & ranger builds will be nigh unkillable, at best you could hope for a draw. There will be a lot more draws in power v. power fights with these changes. Will likely revert to a condi bunker meta.

    Initial thoughts.

    So on that note I feel mesmer and thief will be the strongest fighters, followed by warrior (the class that can still hit like a truck with the least investment in power), followed by the professions with better condition options (mesmer, rev), followed by the "you can't actually kill me but I probably won't kill you" elementalist, ranger and engineer builds. I voted mesmer because in what I feel will be a condition meta mirage will be more threatening than whatever thieves can put out.

    I do feel despite the guardian nerfs that pocket firebrands will be even more effective in 2-5 group skirmish scenarios than they are even now. But as this is about 1v1 scenarios... mesmer.

    ~ Kovu

    Why exactly do you think that warriors will still hit like trucks? Most of their dmg came from chaining together cc and then a burst, cc wont do any dmg, and the followed burst has less dmg too, while might gain was cut down aswell.

    So you wont see 9k bullscharge into 10k eviscerate anymore. It will be 30dmg bullscharge into maybe 6k eviscerate.
    Since many warrior skills are tied to cc and pretty much all the cc gets the 0.01 treatment warrior loses more than 30% dmg.

    So if a warrior goes into tankier stats, like you said, they will lose even more dmg.
    A tanky warrior might be nearly unkillable, but he wont do much else aswell, except maybe perma cc you and have a friend that does the dmg on your not moving body.

  • Ranger

    As a main guard i have to say boonbeast.

    Running almost full berserk barely touches Them allready(yesterday i fought a setler/wanderer and his auto hit me double compared to what i hit him. I run 12k health...do the math), with 30% damage on my side reduction IT Will be only worse. Sure they'll have slightly less protection and their healing potential is slightly cut down slightly but after some Analytics i barely see a reduction then VS now at all (but 20s on doly stance). Which i consider problematic since ive seen 4-5 people struggling on YouTubers/streamers doing nothing but facetank...

  • Emi.4152Emi.4152 Member ✭✭

    Not gonna vote since i have 0 idea but... feel like people voting for thief are kinda delusional. The quintessential spike then leave class with the worst sustain in the game will.. somehow... become better... if the fights take longer because damage overall is being lowered? Dont get it

  • Len.1879Len.1879 Member ✭✭
    Thief

    @Emi.4152 said:
    Not gonna vote since i have 0 idea but... feel like people voting for thief are kinda delusional. The quintessential spike then leave class with the worst sustain in the game will.. somehow... become better... if the fights take longer because damage overall is being lowered? Dont get it

    The idea is that since Thieves can repeatedly disengage and engage they can chip away their opponents health more effectively, wait for their opponent to make a mistake or disengage entirely (like they can already do in many cases) if they believe their chances are slim. Their potential for disengaging becomes even higher, as it becomes harder to spike Thieves down during the periods when they are visible and in rage with a general damage nerf.

  • Emi.4152Emi.4152 Member ✭✭

    @Len.1879 said:

    @Emi.4152 said:
    Not gonna vote since i have 0 idea but... feel like people voting for thief are kinda delusional. The quintessential spike then leave class with the worst sustain in the game will.. somehow... become better... if the fights take longer because damage overall is being lowered? Dont get it

    The idea is that since Thieves can repeatedly disengage and engage they can chip away their opponents health more effectively, wait for their opponent to make a mistake or disengage entirely (like they can already do in many cases) if they believe their chances are slim. Their potential for disengaging becomes even higher, as it becomes harder to spike Thieves down during the periods when they are visible and in rage with a general damage nerf.

    Are we talking about kiting or disengaging? If the thief disengages (oocs), the person fighting the thief could just mount up and leave, or run to the nearest sentry / tower / keep / zerg or even camp if they feel like their chances are slim. Or are we talking about the extremely thirsty people who chases a thief across the map and eventually dies?

    Dont get me wrong though, I agree that potentially a thief could engage / disengage ad infin against certain classes (kiting and without going ooc) but that's in a vacuum and costs a substantial amount of resources for the thief to do so, making a mediocre duelist into an even worse one.

    Or is the problem simply that it's unfair that a thief can leave an open field 1 v 1 fight whereas other classes would need to move to a sentry or tower in order to do the same? Does that alone make thief the strongest 1 v 1 class after the patch?

  • Len.1879Len.1879 Member ✭✭
    Thief

    @Emi.4152 said:

    @Len.1879 said:

    @Emi.4152 said:
    Not gonna vote since i have 0 idea but... feel like people voting for thief are kinda delusional. The quintessential spike then leave class with the worst sustain in the game will.. somehow... become better... if the fights take longer because damage overall is being lowered? Dont get it

    The idea is that since Thieves can repeatedly disengage and engage they can chip away their opponents health more effectively, wait for their opponent to make a mistake or disengage entirely (like they can already do in many cases) if they believe their chances are slim. Their potential for disengaging becomes even higher, as it becomes harder to spike Thieves down during the periods when they are visible and in rage with a general damage nerf.

    Are we talking about kiting or disengaging? If the thief disengages (oocs), the person fighting the thief could just mount up and leave, or run to the nearest sentry / tower / keep / zerg or even camp if they feel like their chances are slim. Or are we talking about the extremely thirsty people who chases a thief across the map and eventually dies?

    Dont get me wrong though, I agree that potentially a thief could engage / disengage ad infin against certain classes (kiting and without going ooc) but that's in a vacuum and costs a substantial amount of resources for the thief to do so, making a mediocre duelist into an even worse one.

    Or is the problem simply that it's unfair that a thief can leave an open field 1 v 1 fight whereas other classes would need to move to a sentry or tower in order to do the same? Does that alone make thief the strongest 1 v 1 class after the patch?

    I used the terms "disengage and engage" and "disengage entirely", but if you would prefer the terminology of "kite" vs "disengage", then sure, same thing, basically.
    And yes, I do believe having this sort of chip-damage over time would wear down a player quickly -- at least me. There may be more deadly combinations after the patch (generally condition builds have been mentioned a few times, although the Thief might excel at that as well on top of their potential for kiting), but I think making it harder to swat back at the enemy effectively makes them much more deadly.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mobility will gain an edge since there will be more time for more mobile builds to decide do I break off and come back at this. I would not pin that on one class since a number of them have options depending on how they are built out.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm not going to pretend I can parse all the data they've given us to make a single conclusion. What I do think though is that builds without significant mobility, cc (soft and hard), and kiteability are hosed. The objective is still the same, do more damage than you take. The way it's been for a long time is mobility, cc, burst mostly reigns supreme. Only one of those is really going away.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Thief

    Oh boy, I wonder why people would say mesmer and thief. Could it be st..... shhhhhhhhh! DON'T SAY IT!
    Although mesmer mirage cloak and confounding suggestions are getting dunked on. Thieves will still have their usual disengage and mobility intact.

    ^ Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs." - Thieves
    "There's no power creep, you just don't recognize more people hitting you." - Flat Earther

  • Thief

    Thief - because of stealth. Anet seems to love stealth.

  • Thief

    Who's the Troll that voted for Revenant ? :p

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭
    Thief

    Thief the four people who voted mesmer did not read the new endurance changes on Mirage, and btw chrono doesn't get distortion. So one dodge minimal access to damage avoids mesmers are done completely.

    I asked for SPvP changes but i never asked for this...
    This game is ruled by the OW community to the detriment of all other game modes..

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    @Genesis.5169 said:
    Thief the four people who voted mesmer did not read the new endurance changes on Mirage, and btw chrono doesn't get distortion. So one dodge minimal access to damage avoids mesmers are done completely.

    @Hexalot.8194 said:
    Who's the Troll that voted for Revenant ? :p

    i dont hink its a troll, the changes to assassin and deamon are quite interesting (strong on paper), i can built torment to cast on u while when that happens u will get more conditions and that seams like a atemp to burst, if the amount of fire is the same as torment... it can be dangerous.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Genesis.5169 said:
    Thief the four people who voted mesmer did not read the new endurance changes on Mirage, and btw chrono doesn't get distortion. So one dodge minimal access to damage avoids mesmers are done completely.

    Somehow I doubt that. For condi Mirages at least. With TB gear, dodge food, and double energy sigils, it makes a notably smaller impact in WvW than it does in sPvP where they will have an even smaller selection of amulets. Not saying they will be S-tier, but I have a hard time imagining a condi Mirage ever being "done" as long as Mirage Cloak functions as-is. Other classes are being brought down as well.

  • Guardian

    This is so bias that the Guardian is being overlooked. With less damage, good luck killing a Guardian even in 1v3, let alone 1v1.

    In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭
    Thief

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:

    @Genesis.5169 said:
    Thief the four people who voted mesmer did not read the new endurance changes on Mirage, and btw chrono doesn't get distortion. So one dodge minimal access to damage avoids mesmers are done completely.

    Somehow I doubt that. For condi Mirages at least. With TB gear, dodge food, and double energy sigils, it makes a notably smaller impact in WvW than it does in sPvP where they will have an even smaller selection of amulets. Not saying they will be S-tier, but I have a hard time imagining a condi Mirage ever being "done" as long as Mirage Cloak functions as-is. Other classes are being brought down as well.

    Mirage cloak isnt working as is its now a hard choice between ambush or dodging man. You may not know it but mesmers do not have a lot of direct mitigation tools we have great movement.

    I asked for SPvP changes but i never asked for this...
    This game is ruled by the OW community to the detriment of all other game modes..

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Don't see why people think Thief is gonna be the strongest class when:

    • Healing Skills have been nerfed.
    • Vigor has been nerfed.
    • Utilities CD have been increased.
    • Initiative has been increased.

    The only thing people think about is Stealth. If anything, this patch has made Stealth even more important for the Thief to keep rather than be offensive because they have to kite even more now with those cooldowns. Evade spamming won't be an option either.

  • Revenant

    Renegade xD

    This is your fate

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020
    Mesmer

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    I'm weirdly in agreement with the majority of posts in this thread. That doesn't usually happen. I stated my opinions on the likely upcoming state of roaming in another thread, and direct 1v1'ers are just the lawful cousins of roamers so I'll post my opinion from there, here.

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    The power stat got a massive nerf effectively, due to all of the coefficients being gutted across the board for everyone. Meanwhile sustain got a smaller nerf. You'll find fewer roamers investing as heavily into power (as it means less) and more into condition damage and defensive stats (which'll counter some of that sustain loss caused by skill nerfs). Overall fights will get longer, uncoordinated/solo bursts will be less successful.

    Therefore my prediction is that the professions with the tools to stealth and kite will have a greater edge in combats and will see improved survival odds. Thieves, mesmers mostly. Pocket firebrands will be even more impossible to kill because while (I assume, I haven't read the guardian notes) they haven't gotten much worse at what they do, the people trying to focus them down will have a more difficult time doing so -- so you'll likely see more of them in small groups. Guardians aside, tanky warrior, engineer, elementalist & ranger builds will be nigh unkillable, at best you could hope for a draw. There will be a lot more draws in power v. power fights with these changes. Will likely revert to a condi bunker meta.

    Initial thoughts.

    So on that note I feel mesmer and thief will be the strongest fighters, followed by warrior (the class that can still hit like a truck with the least investment in power), followed by the professions with better condition options (mesmer, rev), followed by the "you can't actually kill me but I probably won't kill you" elementalist, ranger and engineer builds. I voted mesmer because in what I feel will be a condition meta mirage will be more threatening than whatever thieves can put out.

    I do feel despite the guardian nerfs that pocket firebrands will be even more effective in 2-5 group skirmish scenarios than they are even now. But as this is about 1v1 scenarios... mesmer.

    ~ Kovu

    Why exactly do you think that warriors will still hit like trucks? Most of their dmg came from chaining together cc and then a burst, cc wont do any dmg, and the followed burst has less dmg too, while might gain was cut down aswell.

    So you wont see 9k bullscharge into 10k eviscerate anymore. It will be 30dmg bullscharge into maybe 6k eviscerate.
    Since many warrior skills are tied to cc and pretty much all the cc gets the 0.01 treatment warrior loses more than 30% dmg.

    So if a warrior goes into tankier stats, like you said, they will lose even more dmg.
    A tanky warrior might be nearly unkillable, but he wont do much else aswell, except maybe perma cc you and have a friend that does the dmg on your not moving body.

    Fair points. I guess when I'm permastunned being wailed on I fail to appreciate just how much of that damage is coming from the control effects themselves in the current game. Drop warriors into the "you can't actually kill me but I probably won't kill you" category, then.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.