Raise the sell price limit on the trading post

[robertthebard.8150]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:But this is the topic of the thread, market manipulators wanting to increase the gold cap to sell their expensive, manipulate items on the TP the "legit" way.

Fear mongering isn't an argument. If this happens, ArenaNet should have GMs to deal with it. And no, I don't have anything that would be priced at that value. But the best way for a gold sink to work is to let it work.

It is working, why "fix" it? I can think of a couple of reasons off the top of my head, but there's nothing I want to share here, because I don't want any forced vacations from the board. But how do I know it's working? Because items are staying in a reasonable-ish range in game. The only way to get the "worth" of the items is to take it off site to do it. I said it before, but I'm surprised that ANet allows this to the point where it's openly discussed on their forums.

I admit I am using a simple guide here. A player made a request to raise the cap for the reason they feel something exceeds that cap and they think people will pay that. Most here seem to agree it's better that transactions occur in game for multiple reasons. So, if the seller has to pay gold to list, that is not returnable if it doesn't sell, the risk is on the seller for making a bad call on the value. Buyers can still list their lower offers at no risk. I don't personally think the market would suddenly go crazy if the cap was raised, even if I don't need it to be raised myself. The forums like to argue over arguing at times, and this seems like one of those. Player made their request, leave it to ArenaNet now.

I'm all for discussing things that will actually improve the game, across the board. This isn't one of those things. I've listed a myriad of reasons for that, that are, of course, summarily ignored, at least by the people that really think this is a good idea. The most heinous reason is, of course, that gold sellers will want to get a piece of that pie. I made the comparison in another post, but all the games that have a no limit sales policy on their TP variant have a problem with gold spammers. This isn't the kind of activity we need, and these aren't the new players we want to attract. Does correlation equal causation? I don't know, but I don't want to find out either. The only items that are blowing the lid off the cap for sales are happening on third party websites that not everyone is aware of, and this has managed, over the course of years, to keep the general health of the game's economy in a good place. It really needs to stay there.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:But this is the topic of the thread, market manipulators wanting to increase the gold cap to sell their expensive, manipulate items on the TP the "legit" way.

Fear mongering isn't an argument. If this happens, ArenaNet should have GMs to deal with it. And no, I don't have anything that would be priced at that value. But the best way for a gold sink to work is to let it work.

It is working, why "fix" it? I can think of a couple of reasons off the top of my head, but there's nothing I want to share here, because I don't want any forced vacations from the board. But how do I know it's working? Because items are staying in a reasonable-ish range in game. The only way to get the "worth" of the items is to take it off site to do it. I said it before, but I'm surprised that ANet allows this to the point where it's openly discussed on their forums.

I admit I am using a simple guide here. A player made a request to raise the cap for the reason they feel something exceeds that cap and they think people will pay that. Most here seem to agree it's better that transactions occur in game for multiple reasons. So, if the seller has to pay gold to list, that is not returnable if it doesn't sell, the risk is on the seller for making a bad call on the value. Buyers can still list their lower offers at no risk. I don't personally think the market would suddenly go crazy if the cap was raised, even if I don't need it to be raised myself. The forums like to argue over arguing at times, and this seems like one of those. Player made their request, leave it to ArenaNet now.

I'm all for discussing things that will actually improve the game, across the board. This isn't one of those things. I've listed a myriad of reasons for that, that are, of course, summarily ignored, at least by the people that really think this is a good idea. The most heinous reason is, of course, that gold sellers will want to get a piece of that pie. I made the comparison in another post, but all the games that have a no limit sales policy on their TP variant have a problem with gold spammers. This isn't the kind of activity we need, and these aren't the new players we want to attract. Does correlation equal causation? I don't know, but I don't want to find out either. The only items that are blowing the lid off the cap for sales are happening on third party websites that not everyone is aware of, and this has managed, over the course of years, to keep the general health of the game's economy in a good place. It really needs to stay there.

We had gold spammers with the cap as it is years ago. You would often get whispered every time you went into a city almost instantly. Having a cap, or the lack of one, wouldn’t have an impact on that as far as GW2. I won’t comment about other games as they’re all designed differently.

Trading can also be done outside of the TP so a cap is meaningless to the extent of preventing that.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:But this is the topic of the thread, market manipulators wanting to increase the gold cap to sell their expensive, manipulate items on the TP the "legit" way.

Fear mongering isn't an argument. If this happens, ArenaNet should have GMs to deal with it. And no, I don't have anything that would be priced at that value. But the best way for a gold sink to work is to let it work.

It is working, why "fix" it? I can think of a couple of reasons off the top of my head, but there's nothing I want to share here, because I don't want any forced vacations from the board. But how do I know it's working? Because items are staying in a reasonable-ish range in game. The only way to get the "worth" of the items is to take it off site to do it. I said it before, but I'm surprised that ANet allows this to the point where it's openly discussed on their forums.

I admit I am using a simple guide here. A player made a request to raise the cap for the reason they feel something exceeds that cap and they think people will pay that. Most here seem to agree it's better that transactions occur in game for multiple reasons. So, if the seller has to pay gold to list, that is not returnable if it doesn't sell, the risk is on the seller for making a bad call on the value. Buyers can still list their lower offers at no risk. I don't personally think the market would suddenly go crazy if the cap was raised, even if I don't need it to be raised myself. The forums like to argue over arguing at times, and this seems like one of those. Player made their request, leave it to ArenaNet now.

I'm all for discussing things that will actually improve the game, across the board. This isn't one of those things. I've listed a myriad of reasons for that, that are, of course, summarily ignored, at least by the people that really think this is a good idea. The most heinous reason is, of course, that gold sellers will want to get a piece of that pie. I made the comparison in another post, but all the games that have a no limit sales policy on their TP variant have a problem with gold spammers. This isn't the kind of activity we need, and these aren't the new players we want to attract. Does correlation equal causation? I don't know, but I don't want to find out either. The only items that are blowing the lid off the cap for sales are happening on third party websites that not everyone is aware of, and this has managed, over the course of years, to keep the general health of the game's economy in a good place. It really needs to stay there.

We had gold spammers with the cap as it is years ago. You would often get whispered every time you went into a city almost instantly. Having a cap, or the lack of one, wouldn’t have an impact on that as far as GW2. I won’t comment about other games as they’re all designed differently.

Trading can also be done outside of the TP so a cap is meaningless to the extent of preventing that.

You know what else is true? I haven't been whispered once in three years of off and on playing. I have yet to receive a single message in my ingame mail advertising for gold. If I did the same thing in swtor today, I could have at least two mails, a few whispers, and a few more players, at least, on my block list if I had to go to fleet. I'll pass on even the potential, thanks.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:But this is the topic of the thread, market manipulators wanting to increase the gold cap to sell their expensive, manipulate items on the TP the "legit" way.

Fear mongering isn't an argument. If this happens, ArenaNet should have GMs to deal with it. And no, I don't have anything that would be priced at that value. But the best way for a gold sink to work is to let it work.

It is working, why "fix" it? I can think of a couple of reasons off the top of my head, but there's nothing I want to share here, because I don't want any forced vacations from the board. But how do I know it's working? Because items are staying in a reasonable-ish range in game. The only way to get the "worth" of the items is to take it off site to do it. I said it before, but I'm surprised that ANet allows this to the point where it's openly discussed on their forums.

I admit I am using a simple guide here. A player made a request to raise the cap for the reason they feel something exceeds that cap and they think people will pay that. Most here seem to agree it's better that transactions occur in game for multiple reasons. So, if the seller has to pay gold to list, that is not returnable if it doesn't sell, the risk is on the seller for making a bad call on the value. Buyers can still list their lower offers at no risk. I don't personally think the market would suddenly go crazy if the cap was raised, even if I don't need it to be raised myself. The forums like to argue over arguing at times, and this seems like one of those. Player made their request, leave it to ArenaNet now.

I'm all for discussing things that will actually improve the game, across the board. This isn't one of those things. I've listed a myriad of reasons for that, that are, of course, summarily ignored, at least by the people that really think this is a good idea. The most heinous reason is, of course, that gold sellers will want to get a piece of that pie. I made the comparison in another post, but all the games that have a no limit sales policy on their TP variant have a problem with gold spammers. This isn't the kind of activity we need, and these aren't the new players we want to attract. Does correlation equal causation? I don't know, but I don't want to find out either. The only items that are blowing the lid off the cap for sales are happening on third party websites that not everyone is aware of, and this has managed, over the course of years, to keep the general health of the game's economy in a good place. It really needs to stay there.

We had gold spammers with the cap as it is years ago. You would often get whispered every time you went into a city almost instantly. Having a cap, or the lack of one, wouldn’t have an impact on that as far as GW2. I won’t comment about other games as they’re all designed differently.

Trading can also be done outside of the TP so a cap is meaningless to the extent of preventing that.

You know what else is true? I haven't been whispered once in three years of off and on playing. I have yet to receive a single message in my ingame mail advertising for gold. If I did the same thing in swtor today, I could have at least two mails, a few whispers, and a few more players, at least, on my block list if I had to go to fleet. I'll pass on even the potential, thanks.

That’s because Anet took direct action to prevent gold spammers from communicating with players in the game. The price cap has been 10K since launch and was 10K during the entire time there were gold spammers.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:But this is the topic of the thread, market manipulators wanting to increase the gold cap to sell their expensive, manipulate items on the TP the "legit" way.

Fear mongering isn't an argument. If this happens, ArenaNet should have GMs to deal with it. And no, I don't have anything that would be priced at that value. But the best way for a gold sink to work is to let it work.

It is working, why "fix" it? I can think of a couple of reasons off the top of my head, but there's nothing I want to share here, because I don't want any forced vacations from the board. But how do I know it's working? Because items are staying in a reasonable-ish range in game. The only way to get the "worth" of the items is to take it off site to do it. I said it before, but I'm surprised that ANet allows this to the point where it's openly discussed on their forums.

I admit I am using a simple guide here. A player made a request to raise the cap for the reason they feel something exceeds that cap and they think people will pay that. Most here seem to agree it's better that transactions occur in game for multiple reasons. So, if the seller has to pay gold to list, that is not returnable if it doesn't sell, the risk is on the seller for making a bad call on the value. Buyers can still list their lower offers at no risk. I don't personally think the market would suddenly go crazy if the cap was raised, even if I don't need it to be raised myself. The forums like to argue over arguing at times, and this seems like one of those. Player made their request, leave it to ArenaNet now.

I'm all for discussing things that will actually improve the game, across the board. This isn't one of those things. I've listed a myriad of reasons for that, that are, of course, summarily ignored, at least by the people that really think this is a good idea. The most heinous reason is, of course, that gold sellers will want to get a piece of that pie. I made the comparison in another post, but all the games that have a no limit sales policy on their TP variant have a problem with gold spammers. This isn't the kind of activity we need, and these aren't the new players we want to attract. Does correlation equal causation? I don't know, but I don't want to find out either. The only items that are blowing the lid off the cap for sales are happening on third party websites that not everyone is aware of, and this has managed, over the course of years, to keep the general health of the game's economy in a good place. It really needs to stay there.

We had gold spammers with the cap as it is years ago. You would often get whispered every time you went into a city almost instantly. Having a cap, or the lack of one, wouldn’t have an impact on that as far as GW2. I won’t comment about other games as they’re all designed differently.

Trading can also be done outside of the TP so a cap is meaningless to the extent of preventing that.

You know what else is true? I haven't been whispered once in three years of off and on playing. I have yet to receive a single message in my ingame mail advertising for gold. If I did the same thing in swtor today, I could have at least two mails, a few whispers, and a few more players, at least, on my block list if I had to go to fleet. I'll pass on even the potential, thanks.

That’s because Anet took direct action to prevent gold spammers from communicating with players in the game. The price cap has been 10K since launch and was 10K during the entire time there were gold spammers.

...and yet, they haven't returned. Why do you suppose that is? Do you think it may have something to do with creating an account, and getting to the TP and seeing that there's no profit in it for them? Every ad I've ever seen was "get xx million gold for xx dollars". Looking at the TP, how long do you think it would take for ANet to start banning people that suddenly got millions of gold for nothing? My guess, not very long. It's why I'm surprised they allow outside trading, since that could just as easily turn into RMT situations, where a player is selling items for cash, instead of in game gold.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@"Ubi.4136" said:There are items that drop in game that are worth more than 10k gold, but that is the cap on what the trading post allows. This needs to be addressed. People should not have to risk being scammed by another player or a "trusted" third party service to sell rare items that are worth more than what the current Trading Post allows.

this is a very bad idea.

The 'top' items would still at the top. Which is now a lot higher. so everything else will get more expensive. At the end you achieved nothing but causing hyperinflation without any means to keep up.

[kharmin.7683]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@"Ubi.4136" said:There are items that drop in game that are worth more than 10k gold, but that is the cap on what the trading post allows. This needs to be addressed. People should not have to risk being scammed by another player or a "trusted" third party service to sell rare items that are worth more than what the current Trading Post allows.

this is a very bad idea.

The 'top' items would still at the top. Which is now a lot higher. so everything else will get more expensive. At the end you achieved nothing but causing hyperinflation without any means to keep up.

Agreed. Seems to me that some think raising the 10k cap (or whatever it is) would auto-magically make those chak things become affordable.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:But this is the topic of the thread, market manipulators wanting to increase the gold cap to sell their expensive, manipulate items on the TP the "legit" way.

Fear mongering isn't an argument. If this happens, ArenaNet should have GMs to deal with it. And no, I don't have anything that would be priced at that value. But the best way for a gold sink to work is to let it work.

It is working, why "fix" it? I can think of a couple of reasons off the top of my head, but there's nothing I want to share here, because I don't want any forced vacations from the board. But how do I know it's working? Because items are staying in a reasonable-ish range in game. The only way to get the "worth" of the items is to take it off site to do it. I said it before, but I'm surprised that ANet allows this to the point where it's openly discussed on their forums.

I admit I am using a simple guide here. A player made a request to raise the cap for the reason they feel something exceeds that cap and they think people will pay that. Most here seem to agree it's better that transactions occur in game for multiple reasons. So, if the seller has to pay gold to list, that is not returnable if it doesn't sell, the risk is on the seller for making a bad call on the value. Buyers can still list their lower offers at no risk. I don't personally think the market would suddenly go crazy if the cap was raised, even if I don't need it to be raised myself. The forums like to argue over arguing at times, and this seems like one of those. Player made their request, leave it to ArenaNet now.

I'm all for discussing things that will actually improve the game, across the board. This isn't one of those things. I've listed a myriad of reasons for that, that are, of course, summarily ignored, at least by the people that really think this is a good idea. The most heinous reason is, of course, that gold sellers will want to get a piece of that pie. I made the comparison in another post, but all the games that have a no limit sales policy on their TP variant have a problem with gold spammers. This isn't the kind of activity we need, and these aren't the new players we want to attract. Does correlation equal causation? I don't know, but I don't want to find out either. The only items that are blowing the lid off the cap for sales are happening on third party websites that not everyone is aware of, and this has managed, over the course of years, to keep the general health of the game's economy in a good place. It really needs to stay there.

We had gold spammers with the cap as it is years ago. You would often get whispered every time you went into a city almost instantly. Having a cap, or the lack of one, wouldn’t have an impact on that as far as GW2. I won’t comment about other games as they’re all designed differently.

Trading can also be done outside of the TP so a cap is meaningless to the extent of preventing that.

You know what else is true? I haven't been whispered once in three years of off and on playing. I have yet to receive a single message in my ingame mail advertising for gold. If I did the same thing in swtor today, I could have at least two mails, a few whispers, and a few more players, at least, on my block list if I had to go to fleet. I'll pass on even the potential, thanks.

That’s because Anet took direct action to prevent gold spammers from communicating with players in the game. The price cap has been 10K since launch and was 10K during the entire time there were gold spammers.

...and yet, they haven't returned. Why do you suppose that is? Do you think it may have something to do with creating an account, and getting to the TP and seeing that there's no profit in it for them? Every ad I've ever seen was "get xx million gold for xx dollars". Looking at the TP, how long do you think it would take for ANet to start banning people that suddenly got millions of gold for nothing? My guess, not very long. It's why I'm surprised they allow outside trading, since that could just as easily turn into RMT situations, where a player is selling items for cash, instead of in game gold.

They haven’t returned because of the actions Anet took to prevent them from spamming players with the advertisements. As I also said before, that price cap has been the same since launch. It was the same when they were spamming players.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

There are bugs still in the game. Does that mean they intended them to be there simply because they haven’t fixed them?It's not a bug. It's something they intentionally put into the game.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

There are bugs still in the game. Does that mean they intended them to be there simply because they haven’t fixed them?It's not a bug. It's something they intentionally put into the game.

Correct that it’s not a bug. I was using the argument that you made that since it’s still there then that means it was intended.

Perhaps the better argument would have been that since it has sold for more than 10K since it was introduced, and they haven’t changed that, then it was intended.

There could simply be a limitation that prevents them increasing the cap or it’s just a very low priority since it only affects like three items. Back at launch, I believe the most expensive item on the TP was eternity. Certainly they couldn’t have predicted back then that they’d release an item that would be valuable enough by some players to meet or exceed that cap.

[SexyMofo.8923]

No. Raise the drop rates of those items.

[Discordian.9237]

Raising trade limits won't cause inflation, inflation is caused by more gold entering the economy, this would cause more gold to exit.

Raising the limits won't effect item values, short-term you might see some people press limits, but the market will normalize at value.

Raising the drop-rate defeats the purpose of having a rare item.

If you're afraid by high prices, gold sinks are needed to make those numbers smaller, but the value of the items will stay the same if you're just focusing on a USD:GW2 conversion. So fears of an item doubling in gold price ever (they wouldn't with a market limit increase...), don't mean anything in a real world value context as this would mean another factor caused a lot more gold to enter the economy.

Literally all raising the limits would do long-term is remove some more gold from the economy and protect people who are willing to use the trading post (pay taxes). I don't see the harm here. Some people in here don't seem to understand economics, GW2 has an economy like anything else, economics apply. Easiest example I can think of is Diablo 3 which had a much higher dollar limit than gold, just because the cap was 200mil absolutely did not mean there weren't items worth more than that, arbitrary market limits have no effect on value, this is one of the reasons planned economies don't work...

[Astralporing.1957]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Correct that it’s not a bug. I was using the argument that you made that since it’s still there then that means it was intended.Then you used that quite badly.

Perhaps the better argument would have been that since it has sold for more than 10K since it was introduced, and they haven’t changed that, then it was intended.Indeed, although you need to remember, that while they did set the TP cap at 10k, they did not set the price for those items. Some players did. So, in a way, you could say that their intention for this was weaker from the beginning.

And even if we ignore that part, it still at best means that there are two of their intentions in direct conflict here, and to fix the problem you'd need to reconsider one of them. So, dropping the problematic items below 10k would be at least as good a solution here as the one OP proposes.

There could simply be a limitation that prevents them increasing the capIf there is, the whole point is moot, and the only solution left is to increase the droprates of those items so their price goes below the cap.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Correct that it’s not a bug. I was using the argument that you made that since it’s still there then that means it was intended.Then you used that quite badly.

Yep.

Perhaps the better argument would have been that since it has sold for more than 10K since it was introduced, and they haven’t changed that, then it was intended.Indeed, although you need to remember, that while they did set the TP cap at 10k, they did

not

set the price for those items. Some players did. So, in a way, you could say that their intention for this was weaker from the beginning.

And even if we ignore that part, it still at best means that there are two of their intentions in direct conflict here, and to fix the problem you'd need to reconsider one of them. So, dropping the problematic items below 10k would be at least as good a solution here as the one OP proposes.

That only benefits those that want it cheaper but doesn't address the OP's issue.

There could simply be a limitation that prevents them increasing the capIf there is, the whole point is moot, and the

only

solution left is to increase the droprates of those items so their price goes below the cap.

Or no change at all. There's nothing wrong about having expensive items in the game.

EDIT:

The OP presented an issue that they have an item that is valued greater than the price cap on the TP and are forced to trade outside of the TP to obtain that full value. This of course presents risks. They certainly are not asking for the drop rate to be increased and thus reducing the value of their item. I'm certain that anyone who got the chak egg would want to sell it for 20K if people were paying for it at that amount over 10K. I'm also certain that people who got the chak egg, and intend to sell it, would not be requesting for the drop rate to be increased and thus devaluing their item.

Another thing brought up is whether the price cap is intentional with the main argument being that it hasn't changed since launch. The issue with this is that the game launched over eight years ago and the limit was likely decided well before that. The game has changed quite a bit since launch. Surprising, right? The reasons for it could have changed over that time and I don't believe we even know what those reasons were. The cap could also not have been changed due to low prioritization, as only a few items are impacted by it, or there's a technical limitation that doesn't make it an easy thing to do.

Price manipulation has been brought up as the reason that it's so expensive. That can't necessarily be proven. Who would benefit from it being valued at 20K? If the only ones who could afford it are the ones being accused of manipulating the price, then what? Why would they inflate the cost to 20K to only buy them at that amount? The majority of the chak eggs that exist in the game likely were from average players who got them as drops. The only way someone could profit from manipulating the price would be if they had loaded up bid orders early on for 10K and are using the price cap to lock out others from getting theirs through the TP. When someone happens to instant sell theirs, they then can flip it for a quick profit. If the cap were higher, or removed, people would have to compete with each other's bids. It would be more fair.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Fuchslein.8639 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:They just need to increase drop rates of items so there isn't a third market in the game of such a scale. Anet's assertion of the integrity and stability of their market is a joke.

Having items of value is not in itself a bad thing. It's good that not everything is just junk loot.

So, Items for 10k are Junk? aha ^^

You lost me, how did you get to that from the above. No the point is you don't want everything to drop at the same rate because rarity should be a thing in the game.

[Astralporing.1957]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Fuchslein.8639 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:They just need to increase drop rates of items so there isn't a third market in the game of such a scale. Anet's assertion of the integrity and stability of their market is a joke.

Having items of value is not in itself a bad thing. It's good that not everything is just junk loot.

So, Items for 10k are Junk? aha ^^

You lost me, how did you get to that from the above.Well, if dropping the value of some items below trade cap means for you they will no longer be items of value, it means that you think items at around 10 k value are "just junk loot".

[Cyninja.2954]

@Discordian.9237 said:Raising trade limits won't cause inflation, inflation is caused by more gold entering the economy, this would cause more gold to exit.

Depends. As is right now, a lot of the gold made or used while trading these items does not enter the economy. At least outside of being funneled by players with a lot of gold, on mostly other endeavors and investments. Nearly non of it leaves the economy or even the game given how trading is done outside the TP for a large portion of this items value.

If the cap of 10k were to be raised to say 20k. Those trades for 10k to traders, which resell the items outside of game, would simply increase to 20k, while the artificial scarcity of the item, and the risk associated with trading it would simply increase to 25k or 30k outside of game.

So yes, the gold removed from the games economy/overall increases from 1.5k to 3k, but at the same time the increase in gold availability to regular players increases by 100% from 8.5k to 17k. Gold which WILL find its way back into the games economy in far different ways than say how a large investor would manage said gold and on items which far more players demand.

Unless the entire scarcity and value is not upheld and the valuation of the item implodes. From a pure gold entering the games economy perspective though, you might be incorrect.

@Discordian.9237 said:Raising the limits won't effect item values, short-term you might see some people press limits, but the market will normalize at value.

Mostly because only 1 or 2 items are even affected. If this were a larger scale issue, it most certainly would affect the games economy. In the very least by making certain items no more reliable investments or safe havens to park gold in.

@Discordian.9237 said:Raising the drop-rate defeats the purpose of having a rare item.

If you're afraid by high prices, gold sinks are needed to make those numbers smaller, but the value of the items will stay the same if you're just focusing on a USD:GW2 conversion. So fears of an item doubling in gold price ever (they wouldn't with a market limit increase...), don't mean anything in a real world value context as this would mean another factor caused a lot more gold to enter the economy.

Literally all raising the limits would do long-term is remove some more gold from the economy and protect people who are willing to use the trading post (pay taxes). I don't see the harm here. Some people in here don't seem to understand economics, GW2 has an economy like anything else, economics apply. Easiest example I can think of is Diablo 3 which had a much higher dollar limit than gold, just because the cap was 200mil absolutely did not mean there weren't items worth more than that, arbitrary market limits have no effect on value, this is one of the reasons planned economies don't work...

Removing the gold limit would simply increase this items out of game value, thus making it even less available to "regular" players or implode its artificially high value.

Simple math on this item at given TP cap of 10k:buying this item at 10k removes 1.5k gold from the game, leaves the seller with 8.5k gold and the buyer with an item he can trade out of game for around 18.5k. This is a net profit of 8.5k after spending 10k gold, out of game valuation. At the same time the profit margin for simply trading the item out of game is far lower and only possible due to no 15% tax.

If the cap were to be increased to 20k on the TP, in order for the buyer to be remotely able to make similar profits on the same amount of gold invested, the values change as follows (I am going to assume a 20k gold cost on the TP to keep things simple):20k gold investment from buyer3k go to the tax gods17k profit to some random playerto reach 17k profit (for similar profits of 8.5k per 10k investment), the item would have to sell for 37k outside of game, which drastically increases the actual "value" of the item. Even at half the profit margin you'd still be facing an out of game evaluation of 28.5k gold.

The reason the out of game valuation is as high as it is is not due to supply and demand only. It is a mix of supply manipulation, huge profit margins possible due to the in game cap of 10k and no out of game taxation. Increasing the cap would in no way make this item more accessible to players unless the item value implodes.

[Ayrilana.1396]

That's assuming there are players willing to pay the higher price and everyone who sells it acts together.

[robertthebard.8150]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:But this is the topic of the thread, market manipulators wanting to increase the gold cap to sell their expensive, manipulate items on the TP the "legit" way.

Fear mongering isn't an argument. If this happens, ArenaNet should have GMs to deal with it. And no, I don't have anything that would be priced at that value. But the best way for a gold sink to work is to let it work.

It is working, why "fix" it? I can think of a couple of reasons off the top of my head, but there's nothing I want to share here, because I don't want any forced vacations from the board. But how do I know it's working? Because items are staying in a reasonable-ish range in game. The only way to get the "worth" of the items is to take it off site to do it. I said it before, but I'm surprised that ANet allows this to the point where it's openly discussed on their forums.

I admit I am using a simple guide here. A player made a request to raise the cap for the reason they feel something exceeds that cap and they think people will pay that. Most here seem to agree it's better that transactions occur in game for multiple reasons. So, if the seller has to pay gold to list, that is not returnable if it doesn't sell, the risk is on the seller for making a bad call on the value. Buyers can still list their lower offers at no risk. I don't personally think the market would suddenly go crazy if the cap was raised, even if I don't need it to be raised myself. The forums like to argue over arguing at times, and this seems like one of those. Player made their request, leave it to ArenaNet now.

I'm all for discussing things that will actually improve the game, across the board. This isn't one of those things. I've listed a myriad of reasons for that, that are, of course, summarily ignored, at least by the people that really think this is a good idea. The most heinous reason is, of course, that gold sellers will want to get a piece of that pie. I made the comparison in another post, but all the games that have a no limit sales policy on their TP variant have a problem with gold spammers. This isn't the kind of activity we need, and these aren't the new players we want to attract. Does correlation equal causation? I don't know, but I don't want to find out either. The only items that are blowing the lid off the cap for sales are happening on third party websites that not everyone is aware of, and this has managed, over the course of years, to keep the general health of the game's economy in a good place. It really needs to stay there.

We had gold spammers with the cap as it is years ago. You would often get whispered every time you went into a city almost instantly. Having a cap, or the lack of one, wouldn’t have an impact on that as far as GW2. I won’t comment about other games as they’re all designed differently.

Trading can also be done outside of the TP so a cap is meaningless to the extent of preventing that.

You know what else is true? I haven't been whispered once in three years of off and on playing. I have yet to receive a single message in my ingame mail advertising for gold. If I did the same thing in swtor today, I could have at least two mails, a few whispers, and a few more players, at least, on my block list if I had to go to fleet. I'll pass on even the potential, thanks.

That’s because Anet took direct action to prevent gold spammers from communicating with players in the game. The price cap has been 10K since launch and was 10K during the entire time there were gold spammers.

...and yet, they haven't returned. Why do you suppose that is? Do you think it may have something to do with creating an account, and getting to the TP and seeing that there's no profit in it for them? Every ad I've ever seen was "get xx million gold for xx dollars". Looking at the TP, how long do you think it would take for ANet to start banning people that suddenly got millions of gold for nothing? My guess, not very long. It's why I'm surprised they allow outside trading, since that could just as easily turn into RMT situations, where a player is selling items for cash, instead of in game gold.

They haven’t returned because of the actions Anet took to prevent them from spamming players with the advertisements. As I also said before, that price cap has been the same since launch. It was the same when they were spamming players.

Yeah, no. I played Aion from the second closed beta until just after it went F2P. Guess what: There were gold spammers in every closed beta session. Guess what else? Everyone playing in those betas knew the characters would be removed. The next time you decide you want to cuss ANet out for crafting mats that are bound to account, thank them instead. Making those highly sought after materials bound was the best thing they could do to combat gold sellers. What makes me say that? The nature of loot in DDO, where after 8 years, I only had one mail from a gold spammer. When most of the most desirable stuff is bound to account, there's no reason for gold sellers to populate the game, because the items that may push a buyer to buy from them aren't available that way.

Given how long Blizzard struggled with gold spammers, to the point of taking them to court for it, if ANet had a one size fits all solution to gold spammers that didn't involve checks and balances on the economy, they could package it up and sell it, and retire, and not have to produce any more games. Given the nature of gamers in general, some of them would be happy to retire on that money.

[Linken.6345]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:But this is the topic of the thread, market manipulators wanting to increase the gold cap to sell their expensive, manipulate items on the TP the "legit" way.

Fear mongering isn't an argument. If this happens, ArenaNet should have GMs to deal with it. And no, I don't have anything that would be priced at that value. But the best way for a gold sink to work is to let it work.

It is working, why "fix" it? I can think of a couple of reasons off the top of my head, but there's nothing I want to share here, because I don't want any forced vacations from the board. But how do I know it's working? Because items are staying in a reasonable-ish range in game. The only way to get the "worth" of the items is to take it off site to do it. I said it before, but I'm surprised that ANet allows this to the point where it's openly discussed on their forums.

I admit I am using a simple guide here. A player made a request to raise the cap for the reason they feel something exceeds that cap and they think people will pay that. Most here seem to agree it's better that transactions occur in game for multiple reasons. So, if the seller has to pay gold to list, that is not returnable if it doesn't sell, the risk is on the seller for making a bad call on the value. Buyers can still list their lower offers at no risk. I don't personally think the market would suddenly go crazy if the cap was raised, even if I don't need it to be raised myself. The forums like to argue over arguing at times, and this seems like one of those. Player made their request, leave it to ArenaNet now.

I'm all for discussing things that will actually improve the game, across the board. This isn't one of those things. I've listed a myriad of reasons for that, that are, of course, summarily ignored, at least by the people that really think this is a good idea. The most heinous reason is, of course, that gold sellers will want to get a piece of that pie. I made the comparison in another post, but all the games that have a no limit sales policy on their TP variant have a problem with gold spammers. This isn't the kind of activity we need, and these aren't the new players we want to attract. Does correlation equal causation? I don't know, but I don't want to find out either. The only items that are blowing the lid off the cap for sales are happening on third party websites that not everyone is aware of, and this has managed, over the course of years, to keep the general health of the game's economy in a good place. It really needs to stay there.

We had gold spammers with the cap as it is years ago. You would often get whispered every time you went into a city almost instantly. Having a cap, or the lack of one, wouldn’t have an impact on that as far as GW2. I won’t comment about other games as they’re all designed differently.

Trading can also be done outside of the TP so a cap is meaningless to the extent of preventing that.

You know what else is true? I haven't been whispered once in three years of off and on playing. I have yet to receive a single message in my ingame mail advertising for gold. If I did the same thing in swtor today, I could have at least two mails, a few whispers, and a few more players, at least, on my block list if I had to go to fleet. I'll pass on even the potential, thanks.

That’s because Anet took direct action to prevent gold spammers from communicating with players in the game. The price cap has been 10K since launch and was 10K during the entire time there were gold spammers.

...and yet, they haven't returned. Why do you suppose that is? Do you think it may have something to do with creating an account, and getting to the TP and seeing that there's no profit in it for them? Every ad I've ever seen was "get xx million gold for xx dollars". Looking at the TP, how long do you think it would take for ANet to start banning people that suddenly got millions of gold for nothing? My guess, not very long. It's why I'm surprised they allow outside trading, since that could just as easily turn into RMT situations, where a player is selling items for cash, instead of in game gold.

They haven’t returned because of the actions Anet took to prevent them from spamming players with the advertisements. As I also said before, that price cap has been the same since launch. It was the same when they were spamming players.

Yeah, no. I played Aion from the second closed beta until just after it went F2P. Guess what: There were gold spammers in every closed beta session. Guess what else? Everyone playing in those betas knew the characters would be removed. The next time you decide you want to cuss ANet out for crafting mats that are bound to account, thank them instead. Making those highly sought after materials bound was the best thing they could do to combat gold sellers. What makes me say that? The nature of loot in DDO, where after 8 years, I only had one mail from a gold spammer. When most of the most desirable stuff is bound to account, there's no reason for gold sellers to populate the game, because the items that may push a buyer to buy from them aren't available that way.

Given how long Blizzard struggled with gold spammers, to the point of taking them to court for it, if ANet had a one size fits all solution to gold spammers that didn't involve checks and balances on the economy, they could package it up and sell it, and retire, and not have to produce any more games. Given the nature of gamers in general, some of them would be happy to retire on that money.

But it aint since the account bound version is used to make these that you can sell.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deldrimor_Steel_Ingothttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spiritwood_Plankhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bolt_of_Damaskhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elonian_Leather_Square

[Ayrilana.1396]

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@robertthebard.8150 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:But this is the topic of the thread, market manipulators wanting to increase the gold cap to sell their expensive, manipulate items on the TP the "legit" way.

Fear mongering isn't an argument. If this happens, ArenaNet should have GMs to deal with it. And no, I don't have anything that would be priced at that value. But the best way for a gold sink to work is to let it work.

It is working, why "fix" it? I can think of a couple of reasons off the top of my head, but there's nothing I want to share here, because I don't want any forced vacations from the board. But how do I know it's working? Because items are staying in a reasonable-ish range in game. The only way to get the "worth" of the items is to take it off site to do it. I said it before, but I'm surprised that ANet allows this to the point where it's openly discussed on their forums.

I admit I am using a simple guide here. A player made a request to raise the cap for the reason they feel something exceeds that cap and they think people will pay that. Most here seem to agree it's better that transactions occur in game for multiple reasons. So, if the seller has to pay gold to list, that is not returnable if it doesn't sell, the risk is on the seller for making a bad call on the value. Buyers can still list their lower offers at no risk. I don't personally think the market would suddenly go crazy if the cap was raised, even if I don't need it to be raised myself. The forums like to argue over arguing at times, and this seems like one of those. Player made their request, leave it to ArenaNet now.

I'm all for discussing things that will actually improve the game, across the board. This isn't one of those things. I've listed a myriad of reasons for that, that are, of course, summarily ignored, at least by the people that really think this is a good idea. The most heinous reason is, of course, that gold sellers will want to get a piece of that pie. I made the comparison in another post, but all the games that have a no limit sales policy on their TP variant have a problem with gold spammers. This isn't the kind of activity we need, and these aren't the new players we want to attract. Does correlation equal causation? I don't know, but I don't want to find out either. The only items that are blowing the lid off the cap for sales are happening on third party websites that not everyone is aware of, and this has managed, over the course of years, to keep the general health of the game's economy in a good place. It really needs to stay there.

We had gold spammers with the cap as it is years ago. You would often get whispered every time you went into a city almost instantly. Having a cap, or the lack of one, wouldn’t have an impact on that as far as GW2. I won’t comment about other games as they’re all designed differently.

Trading can also be done outside of the TP so a cap is meaningless to the extent of preventing that.

You know what else is true? I haven't been whispered once in three years of off and on playing. I have yet to receive a single message in my ingame mail advertising for gold. If I did the same thing in swtor today, I could have at least two mails, a few whispers, and a few more players, at least, on my block list if I had to go to fleet. I'll pass on even the potential, thanks.

That’s because Anet took direct action to prevent gold spammers from communicating with players in the game. The price cap has been 10K since launch and was 10K during the entire time there were gold spammers.

...and yet, they haven't returned. Why do you suppose that is? Do you think it may have something to do with creating an account, and getting to the TP and seeing that there's no profit in it for them? Every ad I've ever seen was "get xx million gold for xx dollars". Looking at the TP, how long do you think it would take for ANet to start banning people that suddenly got millions of gold for nothing? My guess, not very long. It's why I'm surprised they allow outside trading, since that could just as easily turn into RMT situations, where a player is selling items for cash, instead of in game gold.

They haven’t returned because of the actions Anet took to prevent them from spamming players with the advertisements. As I also said before, that price cap has been the same since launch. It was the same when they were spamming players.

Yeah, no. I played Aion from the second closed beta until just after it went F2P. Guess what: There were gold spammers in every closed beta session. Guess what else? Everyone playing in those betas knew the characters would be removed.

Different game. What does it have to do with GW2 and them taking action to remove gold spammers?

The next time you decide you want to cuss ANet out for crafting mats that are bound to account, thank them instead. Making those highly sought after materials bound was the best thing they could do to combat gold sellers.

I used to craft those ascended materials on my alts and transfer them to my main so you're very mistaken. Players were also commonly suggested to craft them daily and sell on the TP. Kind of difficult to do that if they were account bound?

What makes me say that? The nature of loot in DDO, where after 8 years, I only had one mail from a gold spammer. When most of the most desirable stuff is bound to account, there's no reason for gold sellers to populate the game, because the items that may push a buyer to buy from them aren't available that way.

Not GW2.

Given how long Blizzard struggled with gold spammers, to the point of taking them to court for it,

Not GW2

if ANet had a one size fits all solution to gold spammers that didn't involve checks and balances on the economy, they could package it up and sell it, and retire, and not have to produce any more games. Given the nature of gamers in general, some of them would be happy to retire on that money.

Gold spammers are practically non-existent in this game even since Anet did the changed back in maybe 2015. I can't remember but it's been quite some time.

[Fuchslein.8639]

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Fuchslein.8639 said:

@TheGrimm.5624 said:

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:They just need to increase drop rates of items so there isn't a third market in the game of such a scale. Anet's assertion of the integrity and stability of their market is a joke.

Having items of value is not in itself a bad thing. It's good that not everything is just junk loot.

So, Items for 10k are Junk? aha ^^

You lost me, how did you get to that from the above. No the point is you don't want everything to drop at the same rate because rarity should be a thing in the game.

No, because it is about adjusting the drop rate so that these items are no longer above 10k. You read the conversation the same way as the others and you lost the point ^^.And by the way, the site that wants a higher drop rate has many more likes.So many more people do not want the cap to be increased.According to your logic, your guide, the discussion is therefore very simple :).

But that has no sense anyway.In the end anet decides what happens. If they increase the cap, it will be good for you to sell your stuff for too much money. And if not, it doesn't matter. Anet SEEMS(happy?) not to care if you sell them via third party sites...

[Fuchslein.8639]

Comment not available

[Zaxares.5419]

Items are valued based on how much people want them. It's why stuff like the Winter's Heart infusion is worth nearly 5 times more than, say, the Toy-Shell infusion despite them being of comparative rarity and giving the same benefit; players just decided, en masse, that the Toy-Shell wasn't "cool", and that was the nail in the coffin for it.

That said, I do agree that people escaping the TP tax is not something that should be encouraged. It will, over time, slowly lead to the consolidation of wealth in the hands of the wealthy, and if more and more players realize that there are people not paying taxes, well, it will only breed resentment and a shift towards grey market trading sites, which further weakens the main purpose of the TP, which is to help rein in inflation. However, the best solution is not to increase the TP limit, but rather to simply increase the supply. If supply is enough that players no longer need to resort to third-party trades to get the item they want, prices will naturally fall below the limit. The TP becomes more efficient the more players use it for trading; beyond a certain point, the more people trading things like Chak Egg Sacs etc. will surpass the benefit of people spending large chunks of gold on the TP tax due to the item's high value.

So, yes, while I agree there needs to exist "luxury goods" in the game for players to strive for, perhaps a case can be made for how these luxury goods should be produced at a rate that doesn't compel players to go outside of the game to get them. After all, most Legendaries can be bought for a few thousand gold, and that hasn't diminished their prestige value in the eyes of players.

[Redsnabba.9172]

I think the general idea of having items being traded over reddit instead of the ingame trading post is indeed misguided but i think the solution should mostly be that super rare items should get a recipe similar to the frost legion infusion otherwise simple supply and demand will just make the item price inflate to insane numbers probably even higher than the already pretty crazy prices for the chak egg and the heart of khan-ur