So, this Baruch Bay server on EU.

[Virdo.1540]

ah yea the old baruch bay discussion. The Spanish server that contains the whole south american continent

[phreeak.1023]

Same with Miller's Sund in T1.

But Baruch is a really really bad sever..

[Caedmon.6798]

Always been the case with BB. Its not their problem,its just the time zone difference. If your server is able to get some oceanic guilds to cover the nights.

[Luthan.5236]

Fun to fight against. They give a challenge in the evening when most other servers have low population. (Then again ... you need your own link to still get enough players online to play.) During night it really is bad yeah ... even the strong other EU servers are weak then.

But I like to play evening and a bit early night. Then it is cool. They have lots of organized guilds and I prefer defensive play and as long as enough players on my server were online (Elona Reach + Underworld) ... it felt fun the last matchup. Looking forward to this week.

The main problem I see though is: My link went from T3 to T1. Then To T3 again. (Now T2 ... maybe we can manage to stay in T2 against Baruch where the fight for 2nd might between them and us.)

At the beginning of the link phase because of re-linking and transfers ... all of it is mixed up. There might be a super strong link (or Baruch without link) at the bottom pwning others and having to move up again ... until it get a bit balanced somehow. (Then next link phase and transfers will ruin it again + T5 always seems bad. :D)

[phreeak.1023]

Fighting them is really challenging. Keeping up while they are running away. Unless its 70 BBs vs 30. Then they are brave..

[DemonSeed.3528]

I mean, look at their corner at the moment, it's all red lol. I don't see them complaining about it, unless they do that in their language specific forum, I don't know. However what I do see is that it is like this a majority of the day for them until their special server time "nightly" ppt time which they try to take advantage of when available and I can see why. It's just the opposite for them and who they fight for differing times of the day, but I only see that this server can only "hold on" during those special hours. I used to hate fighting them until I realised this.

[Ansau.7326]

@Virdo.1540 said:ah yea the old baruch bay discussion. The Spanish server that contains the whole south american continent

lol, as a Spaniard who played in BB for years, if there is something lacking in BB is south american players. Most of the people you see there is from Spain...

[Virdo.1540]

Quote

@Ansau.7326 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:ah yea the old baruch bay discussion. The Spanish server that contains the whole south american continent

lol, if there is something lacking in BB its spanish players. Most of the people you see there are from south america...

ofc thats why there are more people playing at 0-5am european time than in the prime time

Edited October 15, 2021 by Virdo.1540

[Vortigern.1987]

Because for many spanish people the working day ends at 7-8pm. It is very hard to play videogames when you are still on your way back to home. And once you are back, most people have to spend some time with cooking, eating, housework and their families before they have time to turn their computers on. That's the reason why they have so few people online during eu prime-time and get a huge influx of people after 10pm.

[CrimsonRise.7650]

When RTK was on BB, they had a lot more Coverage at night in the late evening or early morning in the EU, but they moved to underworld.

Nowadays they have Guild Raids two hours before and after the usual EU prime time and any open tags, but besides that they aren't that active after 3-4am CET.

[Ansau.7326]

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Ansau.7326 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:ah yea the old baruch bay discussion. The Spanish server that contains the whole south american continent

lol, as a Spaniard who played in BB for years, if there is something lacking in BB is south american players. Most of the people you see there is from Spain...

ofc thats why there are more people playing at 0-5am european time than in the prime time

Exactly, because in Spain offices and shops open at 9-9.30am and don't close until 8pm, and spaniards usually have dinner at 9-10pm. How do you expect them to play during european prime time when they are still working/shopping/hanging out with friends...

[phreeak.1023]

@Ansau.7326 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Ansau.7326 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:ah yea the old baruch bay discussion. The Spanish server that contains the whole south american continent

lol, as a Spaniard who played in BB for years, if there is something lacking in BB is south american players. Most of the people you see there is from Spain...

ofc thats why there are more people playing at 0-5am european time than in the prime time

Exactly, because in Spain offices and shops open at 9-9.30am and don't close until 8pm, and spaniards usually have dinner at 9-10pm. How do you expect them to play during european prime time when they are still working/shopping/hanging out with friends...

Weird.. Google says offices and shops having normal 9 to 16 working hours and 40hrs weeks like the rest of Europe.

Smells like an excuse for the south american karma train.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Sovereign.1093 said:its not their fault that their timezone is such. =)

I suppose it is not so much their hours (i.e., Spain) but the hours of people from South America playing on that server (or so I've heard), which is an unfair advantage because of their time difference.

[knite.1542]

Don't worry guys. Alliances will fix this. Just be patient.

[Vortigern.1987]

@phreeak.1023 said:

@Ansau.7326 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Ansau.7326 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:ah yea the old baruch bay discussion. The Spanish server that contains the whole south american continent

lol, as a Spaniard who played in BB for years, if there is something lacking in BB is south american players. Most of the people you see there is from Spain...

ofc thats why there are more people playing at 0-5am european time than in the prime time

Exactly, because in Spain offices and shops open at 9-9.30am and don't close until 8pm, and spaniards usually have dinner at 9-10pm. How do you expect them to play during european prime time when they are still working/shopping/hanging out with friends...

Weird.. Google says offices and shops having normal 9 to 16 working hours and 40hrs weeks like the rest of Europe.

Smells like an excuse for the south american karma train.

"A typical Spanish working day tends to be from around 8.30am or 9am to around 1.30 pm and then from 4.30pm or 5pm to around 8pm.

The famous siesta, whilst declining in the larger cities, is still a major part of the working day in Spain. Siesta is a mid-afternoon break, usually around three hours, which gives employees a break from work during the intense midday heat. Most people tend to go home for lunch, spend time with their family or relax during this time."

source: https://businessculture.org/southern-europe/business-culture-in-spain/work-life-balance-in-spain/

[Ansau.7326]

@phreeak.1023 said:

@Ansau.7326 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Ansau.7326 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:ah yea the old baruch bay discussion. The Spanish server that contains the whole south american continent

lol, as a Spaniard who played in BB for years, if there is something lacking in BB is south american players. Most of the people you see there is from Spain...

ofc thats why there are more people playing at 0-5am european time than in the prime time

Exactly, because in Spain offices and shops open at 9-9.30am and don't close until 8pm, and spaniards usually have dinner at 9-10pm. How do you expect them to play during european prime time when they are still working/shopping/hanging out with friends...

Weird.. Google says offices and shops having normal 9 to 16 working hours and 40hrs weeks like the rest of Europe.

Smells like an excuse for the south american karma train.

Lol so you trust more google than a spaniard when it comes to the daily live of spaniards??Good luck trying to find people in Spain finishing work at 4pm... Its the time when afternoon starts xd

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:its not their fault that their timezone is such. =)

I suppose it is not so much

their

hours (i.e., Spain) but the hours of people from South America playing on that server (or so I've heard), which is an unfair advantage because of their time difference.

Thing is, if you put all south american players on one server, then put them against any EU server, you'll get PPT trains and nothing else. It's better that they are mixed, so coverage is more even.

[aspirine.6852]

Lol is this still going.. The only thing needed is either to move it to US but ffs close this server since it has more people than 2 full servers combined.

[Riba.3271]

BB isn't just spanish speaking players, commanders and guilds these days. It is near perfect server for English ones too:

• Main server (consistancy, we saw how strong GH/FoW got over being linked together for half a year+, and no "transfer spree" every 2 months)
• Never linked
• Never Full
• High transfer cost: Less rubble and non commital toxic people.
• Lot of guild groups and commanders
• Scouts everywhere
• Has weak groups also and "weak server" stigma so enemies are willing to tag up against them (lot of fights)
• Overpopulated with strong coverage

Yep. Might be time to moving our alts or mains there so we don't have to deal with all this relinking/FULL/transfer fiesta that should have been fixed ages ago. Every other server gets punished for getting stronger or more fun to play at by being made full and/or unlinked.

[Pemberly.6305]

https://sites.google.com/view/gw2-wvw-for-beginners/wvw-guild-claims

Just wanted to add pictures of when servers are busy, as measured by flipping and claiming objectives.Data is from the most recent NA reset, to the update time listed at the top of the page.

[Svarty.8019]

This is still a gigantic issue three years later. The players are all praying that the World Restructuring system will fix it - personally I have great doubts.

 

[Boh.4568]

From what I see in Gw2mists they are losing the current T2 matchup, and the KD ratio is balanced with the other two teams.

So either they do less nightcapping or their opponents farm them during the day to compensate. Or they can't out-PPT piken.

[subversiontwo.7501]

On 10/12/2021 at 2:07 AM, Svarty.8019 said:

This is still a gigantic issue three years later. The players are all praying that the World Restructuring system will fix it - personally I have great doubts.

 

Holy necro, Svartyman 😊

It's not an easy thing to "fix". Geography and time is always an issue, however, things can certainly be organised better and mitigate or alleviate some of the unecessary issues tied to the larger problem.

What Alliances will do is break up the singular "one spanish server for all spanish-speakers" chunk and it will increase overall mobility making sure it is more available for everyone who wants to, to create cross-regional alliances thus creating more, smaller groups that can maintain coverage like BB. So it addresses the problem from two sides at once: Both by breaking a big chunk into smaller pieces, spreading it out but also by providing tools allowing other groups to form similar-covering smaller pieces. That is at least a short-term better.

There's also a third bit in this which I can't speak to the veracity of but that has been repeated so many times by now that we just take it verbatim and that is BB staying open when other servers get closed but also never gets linked: If true, that is also a major balancing and equity issue, that will go away with Alliances. Right now they're treated as an exception to the system in these multiple ways and that is not healthy for the system/mode. It makes the ladder broken from the ground-up and pretty much pointless to have.

Ultimately though, this is a scoring issue and best addressed with scoring changes. Like I said many months ago when this thread first appeared: Nightcapping is mainly a representation of a larger issue with coverage and population balance. The same issues at regional prime are just more pronounced at regional off-hours due to smaller overall populations and heterogenity. The best way to fix that is map-balanced scoring. Not just because it best-as addresses nightcapping but because it also encourages healthy behaviours and opens up more things to do with/within the system for the developers. Right now scoring is a problem but also limiter. A map-balanced scoring system would not just better track world scores but also help better track long-term mega-world scores in EotM or guild/alliance scores for other purposes and reward routes.

Edited October 14, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[subversiontwo.7501]

I think what I said above about whether the ladder is useful or pointless to have deserves its own commentary. Though be warned this will be far more expository than the post above and not directly to the point.

The ladder is there to determine some sense of achievement that gets distorted by population balance issues, but more importantly it is also there to ensure that you get good matchups and content.

In EU we have gotten acustomed to that climbing the ladder means facing better coverage, not tougher opponents. The end result of that has been that groups that are strong enough to navigate and manipulate the ladder has targeted sweetspots for content almost for as long as the mode has been out. The futility of playing to attribute any value to #1 was something that was discovered almost immidiately after the game launched (even the early tournaments were mostly segmented by size and manipulated to win specific leagues for their rewards).

The linking system and its issues with emptied-out servers being repopulated and not indicative of their ladder placement aside, these issues have always made matching up and creating content problematic in EU. That's something I think people overlook when they look at the ladder or are new/outliers and do not understand how the ladder works and is treated. The ladder is not just there to climb but also to ensure that you get better adapted content that you can have more fun with/in, if you do fall down. As things stand you can have matchups where lower tiers are "better" than higher tiers simply because the coverage issues makes people manipulate the ladder to avoid less desired content. Servers that can/should go up are actively trying not to and so forth. Servers that fall down gets faced with tougher content and starts to freefall or servers that climb faces tanking that propels them too high too quickly. These are all behavioural results leading to worse matchups and content that are rooted in the coverage/scoring issue. Trying to navigate this problem we inadvertantly cause ourselves to create less content.

A server like BB and their overall behaviour is very much apart of this. It's not like any spanish-speaking player prefers easy PPT. There are plenty of good spanish-speaking groups out there. It's just a reflection of the reality they find themselves in. Getting propelled by their night-time they simply face overwhelming odds in their prime-time and so forth. It makes them very difficult to match up and it makes it difficult for them to find hours when sides are as balanced as possible for more content and better PPT/PPK balance where the game mode is at its best. So these things kind of stink for everyone besides those who do not understand how the ladder works or is treated by the larger playerbase (like those who gun for #1 as a goal set for themselves without knowing that whole servers between them are actively avoiding it). Also, different approaches to the game wouldn't be as problematic without this issue.

A server (like BB) could choose to be a bit more PPT-oriented in its prime. That isn't necessarily an issue in- and of itself relative more PPK-minded opponents in matchups. It is more so the combination of that in- and out of prime that causes issues for content. Opponents will not try to adapt to their day when they know that they can't contend with their night in healthy ways, making prime pointless and, again, ultimately the ladder itself. If the ladder doesn't fill any of it's two functions 1) healthy sense of achievement and 2) better content matchups, then it would likely be better for WvW to not use the ladder for matchups and just match things freely for more variation. We could just skip the tier model completely. However a healthy ladder is easily a better alternative. When it works it does good.

I think it is also well to point out here that the players most hurt by this is not necessarily the more PPK-minded players. Manipulating the ladder for fights is inconvenient but it is possible and keeps being done. The groups that have quit over these issues are mainly those that attribute more value to PPT and would be PPT-minded opponents to those players who value that content. There are usually misconceptions about this on these forums. If someone else claims a hollow victory it doesn't necessarily affect me beyond a mild frustration of navigating the ladder for content or missing out on ideal PPT/PPK balanced time when/where the holistic nature of WvW content shines, but for someone on my world who attributes value to that victory, they have been likely to quit or transfer over it. That's also why we have so many more fighting groups than we have specific defender groups or the like. Those specifics are rare even if there are still more loosely organised players who like defense etc., and it's a shame because of less variety.

Edited October 14, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[anduriell.6280]

 

On 11/5/2020 at 3:27 PM, Ansau.7326 said:

 

lol, as a Spaniard who played in BB for years, if there is something lacking in BB is south american players. Most of the people you see there is from Spain...

 

 

ofc thats why there are more people playing at 0-5am european time than in the prime time

 

Exactly, because in Spain offices and shops open at 9-9.30am and don't close until 8pm, and spaniards usually have dinner at 9-10pm. How do you expect them to play during european prime time when they are still working/shopping/hanging out with friends...

 

Weird.. Google says offices and shops having normal 9 to 16 working hours and 40hrs weeks like the rest of Europe.

 

Smells like an excuse for the south american karma train.

Lol so you trust more google than a spaniard when it comes to the daily live of spaniards??Good luck trying to find people in Spain finishing work at 4pm... Its the time when afternoon starts xd

Spaniard here.

Offices close at 5-6pm. Shops at 8pm. The "siesta" thingy is only a thing in the very south of spain.

The server is filled with southamerican players, just they play very late, from 2am to 6am. If you play during the evening the few players in the map most are spaniards.

 

Most spaniard population has moved on to other servers because if you try to play during the day\evening there is no people or tags to follow. Most youngters can manage in english anyway.

 

The server is not great, most tags are very toxic and they require TS3 or Discord voice deppending on the commander. I never had a good experience joining any voice comms in that server with the tag continiusly  berating on the players when things dont go their way which is most of the times. 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by anduriell.6280