Why doesn't GW2 have the option of 1x1 duels??

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

They got pretty toxic chat going on right now in WvW EB server. And, this is not rare occasion. It happens every hour.

All Started when someone lost dueling haha. Calling each other garbage and rest joined.

So, NO dueling in pve.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Yellow Rainbow.6142

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

8 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

There's a ton of purely mechanical problems tied to being able to PvP in a general PvE environment and not in an area specifically dedicated to that.

Yeah, if you've read my other posts, I've been saying this won't happen due to how PvE is built (And arguing with someone who want's a lore justification for it t o exist to begin with).  It'd require too much work to even just get it bare bones working and, with how reliant the older maps are on legacy code any future change would harm the system they put forth to work on older maps. The best case scenario is if EoD has some new maps with features like that built from the ground up on those maps, but even then, it'd likely just be an expansion on the guild hall mechanics (Step through a thing to join a 'team'.)

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

8 hours ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

They got pretty toxic chat going on right now in WvW EB server. And, this is not rare occasion. It happens every hour.

All Started when someone lost dueling haha. Calling each other garbage and rest joined.

So, NO dueling in pve.

This doesn't seem any different than the general PvE players getting salty about how their meta failed.

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

6 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

This doesn't seem any different than the general PvE players getting salty about how their meta failed.

It doesn't?

nothing to discuss then. It's not like anyone could change anyone's opinion through this forum anyway. Dueling in PVE  = I quit this game. It's that simple. Sorry to spell it out this way but It's my line that I do not cross.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

54 minutes ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

It doesn't?

Yeah no, it really isn't.  The salt in overflow maps from a failed HoT meta, Tequatl, or other metas is about the same.
 

Quote

nothing to discuss then. It's not like anyone could change anyone's opinion through this forum anyway. Dueling in PVE  = I quit this game. It's that simple. Sorry to spell it out this way but It's my line that I do not cross.

What a trivial thing to quit over, but okay.

[Astralporing.1957]

4 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

What a trivial thing to quit over, but okay.

What is trivial to you, may be not so trivial to others.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

What is trivial to you, may be not so trivial to others.

It's one thing, one aspect of the entire game that shifted.  It's like not going to your favorite restaurant because they added something new to the menu.

[AgentMoore.9453]

2 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

It's like not going to your favorite restaurant because they added something new to the menu.

For the people who'd quit the game over dueling (or open world PVP of any kind), it's more like a restaurant changing their policies to allow smoking indoors. You can choose to sit in the non-smoking section (opt-out), but your experience will still be affected by the fumes generated by those who opt in.

If GW2 were a restaurant with three completely separated buildings, one for smoking (PvP), one for not smoking (PvE), and one for either (WvW), you'd have a pretty good analogy for GW2's separated game modes. Same menus at each of these places, but different dining atmospheres. It'd be silly for the patrons of the non-smoking building to demand a smoke-free experience in the smoking building just as it's silly for the smokers ask why they can't light up in the smoke-free building.

[Mik.3401]

But anyone can enter a free arena to duel? Of course they could make a big button ‘duel 1v1 here’ but the option is already there

[The Greyhawk.9107]

1 hour ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

For the people who'd quit the game over dueling (or open world PVP of any kind), it's more like a restaurant changing their policies to allow smoking indoors. You can choose to sit in the non-smoking section (opt-out), but your experience will still be affected by the fumes generated by those who opt in.

If GW2 were a restaurant with three completely separated buildings, one for smoking (PvP), one for not smoking (PvE), and one for either (WvW), you'd have a pretty good analogy for GW2's separated game modes. Same menus at each of these places, but different dining atmospheres. It'd be silly for the patrons of the non-smoking building to demand a smoke-free experience in the smoking building just as it's silly for the smokers ask why they can't light up in the smoke-free building.

That's a pretty kitten good analogy.  I was going to say something about the restaurant changing out something you liked for something you didn't, but what you said works much, much better.

[Astralporing.1957]

8 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

It's one thing, one aspect of the entire game that shifted.  It's like not going to your favorite restaurant because they added something new to the menu.

More like not going to your favourite restaurant because they allowed smokers in a non-smoking room.

 

Edit: and i see someone already made that comparison.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[nopoet.2960]

There are places on the map where it makes sense to allow player duels; the Bane in the Black Citadel  is one and there's a small Norn area too but I can't remember the name.  I suspect there are others.

 

Also I would allow duels under the supervision of npc guards.  Essentially you would have to pay them to ref.  So a player would signal they are willing to dual by paying a guard (maybe a symbol appears over the guards head).  Someone can accept the challenge by telling the guard.  This gets people out of issuing direct challenges and gives the devs a way to control where people can duel by not allowing guards near busy hubs to referee.

[Kurrilino.2706]

6 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

More like not going to your favourite restaurant because they allowed smokers in a non-smoking room.

 

Edit: and i see someone already made that comparison.

 

Yeah... this isn't describing the situation badly enough.

 

It's more like smoking is already allowed despite killing you and others, even written on the packages.

"Smoking can kill or heavily damage you and others around you" but it's accepted because of socializing habits.

 

Now the PvP guys coming in.... Hey guys, what about suicide bombing. We could stitch the same words on our dynamite belts.

"Suicide bombing can kill or heavily damage you and others" we think this could be accepted in the future too

 

PvE: Absoltely not !!!!!

 

PvP: We could dedicate areas in cities for suicide bombing. 

 

PvE: "facepalm"

 

 

[Cuks.8241]

Over dramatic much? Judging by this thread duels would instantly kill the game with visual noise, trolls, rude language and technical difficulties. While in reality most people would barely encounter duels. Maybe players would establish dueling areas where duelers might meet but that's about it. But I guess it's just to offensive for some people to allow a few players to duel at a few square meter with so few pve maps in the game. In a game where most of the time you are murdering everything that comes in your way for a handful of magic dust and some ecto plasm. Don't get me started on what extensive mining and logging does to the environment.

Most people I know from pvp modes also play pve. I doubt that there are many players that play pvp or wvw exclusively. There's plenty of people that play all modes at least a bit and I doubt they would mind duels. I think most people in the game wouldn't mind encountering a duel in OW and to many it would be interesting even if they wouldn't engage in it.

And all that visual noise kitten. Really? That's just trolling. Give us option to turn down/off effects.

 

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

14 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

For the people who'd quit the game over dueling (or open world PVP of any kind), it's more like a restaurant changing their policies to allow smoking indoors. You can choose to sit in the non-smoking section (opt-out), but your experience will still be affected by the fumes generated by those who opt in.

If GW2 were a restaurant with three completely separated buildings, one for smoking (PvP), one for not smoking (PvE), and one for either (WvW), you'd have a pretty good analogy for GW2's separated game modes. Same menus at each of these places, but different dining atmospheres. It'd be silly for the patrons of the non-smoking building to demand a smoke-free experience in the smoking building just as it's silly for the smokers ask why they can't light up in the smoke-free building.

 

9 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

More like not going to your favourite restaurant because they allowed smokers in a non-smoking room.

 

Edit: and i see someone already made that comparison.

No, it's exactly like a restaurant adding a new  option to their menu (a form of meat to a generally vegetarian menu) that people don't like and leaving over it despite the restaurant providing exactly what they want, just now with more options. 


 

 

25 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Over dramatic much? Judging by this thread duels would instantly kill the game with visual noise, trolls, rude language and technical difficulties. While in reality most people would barely encounter duels. Maybe players would establish dueling areas where duelers might meet but that's about it. But I guess it's just to offensive for some people to allow a few players to duel at a few square meter with so few pve maps in the game. In a game where most of the time you are murdering everything that comes in your way for a handful of magic dust and some ecto plasm. Don't get me started on what extensive mining and logging does to the environment.

Most people I know from pvp modes also play pve. I doubt that there are many players that play pvp or wvw exclusively. There's plenty of people that play all modes at least a bit and I doubt they would mind duels. I think most people in the game wouldn't mind encountering a duel in OW and to many it would be interesting even if they wouldn't engage in it.

And all that visual noise kitten. Really? That's just trolling. Give us option to turn down/off effects.

 

This is exactly what would happen.  Dueling would be introduced and it'd go the way of ESO.  Something people do while waiting between events, queues, etc.  People here are in love with their  edge cases, though, and somehow think that their few negative experiences (in likely hundreds if not  thousands of hours) in other games somehow  justifies the whole system being bad.

[Kurrilino.2706]

55 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Over dramatic much? 

Most people I know from pvp modes also play pve. I doubt that there are many players that play pvp or wvw exclusively. There's plenty of people that play all modes at least a bit and I doubt they would mind duels. I think most people in the game wouldn't mind encountering a duel in OW and to many it would be interesting even if they wouldn't engage in it.

And all that visual noise kitten. Really? That's just trolling. Give us option to turn down/off effects.

 

 

How the kitten do you read hundreds of posts every week  "do not do that at all" as most people would interested.

 

So le me translate all that for you. 

How many players play PvE and PvP is irrelevant to the discussion this this topic affects PvE only.

So if 99% of the PvE players answer every week they want this game mode under no circumstances in their PvE world,

it most likely means that they DON'T WANT THIS MODE IN THEIR PVE WORLD.

It can't be that difficult and Kudos to A-Net for not even listen to players from PvP wanting to change the PvE players world.

 

You guys should just imagine RP people trying to get into PvP modes and disrupt it for roleplaying 

[Kurrilino.2706]

37 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

 

No, it's exactly like a restaurant adding a new  option to their menu (a form of meat to a generally vegetarian menu) that people don't like and leaving over it despite the restaurant providing exactly what they want, just now with more options. 

 

You got it half right,

 

If you introduce meat to a Vegetarian only restaurant people will go somewhere else.

People will disregard that they can chose not to order meat.

Those guys go to a vegetarian restaurant because they chose this lifestyle and don't want to be confronted with meat.

[ArchonWing.9480]

I think it'd be more similar to a bloated menu that has too many niche items. There's a reason why they're usually made to be concise.
 

While they will sometimes take custom orders, that's up to the Restaurant.

This thread, in particular, is probably more analogous to demanding a vegetarian dish be be brought to the forefront   at a steak restaurant, when it may already serve it. I mean, yes, it's already there, so it's asking for special treatment.

But considering 1v1 isn't a real game mode, it'd be more akin to not asking for food at all. It'd be more like they expect to be served even if they don't want food  because they only like the utensils at the restaurant and they want to be allowed to bother other patrons about it.

Edited September 7, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Cuks.8241]

1 hour ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

So if 99% of the PvE players answer every week they want this game mode under no circumstances in their PvE world,

it most likely means that they DON'T WANT THIS MODE IN THEIR PVE WORLD.

So we duel lovers are in luck since 99% of PVE player base don't answer every week and probably don't care at all. It's only those few that think this is THEIR world and not Anet's online service. 

Also I have information that 75 % of all population want duels and 96 % of PVE only population don't mind or actually want duels. It is common knowledge that duels would increase influx of players by 12 % and increase player retention (yearly) by 8 %.

[Kurrilino.2706]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I think it'd be more similar to a bloated menu that has too many niche items. There's a reason why they're usually made to be concise.
 

While they will sometimes take custom orders, that's up to the Restaurant.

This thread, in particular, is probably more analogous to demanding a vegetarian dish be be brought to the forefront   at a steak restaurant, when it may already serve it. I mean, yes, it's already there, so it's asking for special treatment.

But considering 1v1 isn't a real game mode, it'd be more akin to not asking for food at all. It'd be more like they expect to be served even if they don't want food  because they only like the utensils at the restaurant and they want to be allowed to bother other patrons about it.

 

This Sir, is the best answer i have ever read about this topic.

Kudos to you !!!

[Imba.9451]

15 hours ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

 

How many players play PvE and PvP is irrelevant to the discussion this this topic affects PvE only.

So if 99% of the PvE players answer every week they want this game mode under no circumstances in their PvE world,

it most likely means that they DON'T WANT THIS MODE IN THEIR PVE WORLD.

 

If the people answering here are 99% of the PvE Playerbase, then the game has much bigger problems than 1v1.

 

15 hours ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

You guys should just imagine RP people trying to get into PvP modes and disrupt it for roleplaying 

Bad analogy. 1v1 duels disrupt noone. People RP'ing in a PvP match (wich is a team gamemode) do.

[kharmin.7683]

11 minutes ago, Imba.9451 said:

Bad analogy. 1v1 duels disrupt noone. People RP'ing in a PvP match (wich is a team gamemode) do.

Dueling can disrupt depending on how it is implemented.

[shrew.3059]

It’s worth acknowledging the distinction between those who want duelling as a casual “adventure” and those who want duelling as a potential game mode. And perhaps it’s worth acknowledging that this is a potentially blurry line that will not remain fixed over time.

 

The reason? If duelling were introduced tomorrow, some in this thread would be happy and some not so happy. But those happy players may interpret the inclusion of duelling as a commitment by ANet to a chosen way to play, and would expect rewards, QoL improvements, and balance adjustments to make their duels more fair and fun. Once ANet failed to fulfil those expectations, some of those former happy players would join the unhappy players and ANet would have more unhappy players on their hands than if they had done nothing.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

2 hours ago, shrew.3059 said:

It’s worth acknowledging the distinction between those who want duelling as a casual “adventure” and those who want duelling as a potential game mode. And perhaps it’s worth acknowledging that this is a potentially blurry line that will not remain fixed over time.

 

The reason? If duelling were introduced tomorrow, some in this thread would be happy and some not so happy. But those happy players may interpret the inclusion of duelling as a commitment by ANet to a chosen way to play, and would expect rewards, QoL improvements, and balance adjustments to make their duels more fair and fun. Once ANet failed to fulfil those expectations, some of those former happy players would join the unhappy players and ANet would have more unhappy players on their hands than if they had done nothing.

If people are going to delude themselves into believing that a feature which would be the epitome of casual pvp (It's opt in, uses PvE balance, and is only 1v1 with no structure to it) would have rewards similar to actual structured pvp or wvw, that's on them.  I've yet to see any game with dueling that had rewards for dueling that weren't just players betting against eachother (Runescape's duel arena, dueling over reward drops in WoW/other MMOs) or the pvp was in a 'dangerous' area (Again, Runescape's wilderness and dropped items on death.)  So  not adding it because players will be dumb enough to think it requires  rewards is a non issue.   As for balance, there's sPvP and WvW for a more balanced experience.  There's already a place for balanced PvP.  There's not really an easily accessible place for imbalanced PvP (Guild halls aren't really a solution when they cost an arm and a leg to upgrade & access to the guild hall).

The actual issue is that the way aggro and faction systems are set up in GW2 leave it to be a logistical nightmare  to code around.  I'm pretty sure aggression and factions for  aggression, mob, & player hostility (not the salt  whispered or written, but  whether or not  the player can be attacked by other players), requires certain flags and these flags are more than likely hardcoded into the general map codebase.  To get it working everywhere, they (ANet) would have to change how every map works from the ground up and there are over 30 maps with code that's reliant on code elsewhere just in Core Tyria alone.  It'd be a broken mess if anything, and even more broken later down the line as any shift or change to the core maps would be liable to break the system that ANet would set up if they wanted to add this to begin with.  There's a reddit post earlier in this thread that explains this via ANet dev post on reddit.  It's not that ANet doesn't want to implement it, it's that they really can't. Not without massive changes and the opinions of the few here aren't going to change how the game is coded.

TL;DR:  There's never been an instance of 1v1 duels I've come across that have been rewarding for just participating.  There's already places for structured, balanced pvp.  The imbalanced PvP some want using PvE balance is currently inaccessible as it's exclusive to guild halls (which have their own problems).  Nothing said on the forums will change how the aggression and faction system is hardcoded into the maps. 

As much as I am personally okay with duels being a thing in GW2, they're not likely due to how the game is designed.  And I'm not talking about lore or the intention of PvE maps.

[shrew.3059]

35 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

TL;DR:  There's never been an instance of 1v1 duels I've come across that have been rewarding for just participating.  There's already places for structured, balanced pvp.  The imbalanced PvP some want using PvE balance is currently inaccessible as it's exclusive to guild halls (which have their own problems).  Nothing said on the forums will change how the aggression and faction system is hardcoded into the maps. 

As much as I am personally okay with duels being a thing in GW2, they're not likely due to how the game is designed.  And I'm not talking about lore or the intention of PvE maps.

 

This seems right to me.

 

That said, GW2 PvP has always been balanced around teams/objectives, as opposed to other MMOs with duelling that at least attempts to balance things 1v1. Call it a hunch, but when people start losing their duels to professions because nothing is balanced 1v1, they absolutely will come crying on the forums.