For the love of God, please nerf condi in PvP

[Pyriel.4370]

Currently in the meta, condi is EVERYWHERE, effectively forcing people to take a lot of condi cleanse or just die.

 

How are you meant to achieve build diversity when a team of 2 - 4 condi players steamroll anyone without any huge cleanses? Even as a support guard, when cleansing appropriately, they're only reapplied en masse moments later over a literal multi-layered floor of death anywhere near a point because of aoe condi.

Simply, throw a necro, ele and thief in the mix and there is no point trying to get a cap. They will just burst to the point where it isn't a burst anymore, its just unreasonably high sustained damage. Throw in condi amulets that give you support in the realms of vitality, toughness or healing power (in the case of the sage amulet, vitality and healing power) while also giving you 1000+ condition damage. This makes builds that spam hard hitting condis become also hard to kill. 

It's leading to very cheap builds that are just being spammed where it literally feels like other players may as well have a delete button. I know no build is meant to survive a three person focus, but what about whole teams?

This does not scale properly to normal power precision also as simply put a hard hit can be dodged or blocked and that's it. Not one power-based AoE has the same spammability, range and duration as condi AoE.  The only power build that comes close by any stretch is DH trapper, and we are now seeing them apply heavy burn damage too.

 

Seriously, can't these be toned down to the point where we don't have to min max condi cleanse or die?

 

[Axl.8924]

26 minutes ago, Pyriel.4370 said:

Currently in the meta, condi is EVERYWHERE, effectively forcing people to take a lot of condi cleanse or just die.

 

How are you meant to achieve build diversity when a team of 2 - 4 condi players steamroll anyone without any huge cleanses? Even as a support guard, when cleansing appropriately, they're only reapplied en masse moments later over a literal multi-layered floor of death anywhere near a point because of aoe condi.

Simply, throw a necro, ele and thief in the mix and there is no point trying to get a cap. They will just burst to the point where it isn't a burst anymore, its just unreasonably high sustained damage. Throw in condi amulets that give you support in the realms of vitality, toughness or healing power (in the case of the sage amulet, vitality and healing power) while also giving you 1000+ condition damage. This makes builds that spam hard hitting condis become also hard to kill. 

It's leading to very cheap builds that are just being spammed where it literally feels like other players may as well have a delete button. I know no build is meant to survive a three person focus, but what about whole teams?

This does not scale properly to normal power precision also as simply put a hard hit can be dodged or blocked and that's it. Not one power-based AoE has the same spammability, range and duration as condi AoE.  The only power build that comes close by any stretch is DH trapper, and we are now seeing them apply heavy burn damage too.

 

Seriously, can't these be toned down to the point where we don't have to min max condi cleanse or die?

 

 

Conditions are already strongly countered heavily because people complain, and any further nerf would make condis completely obsolete and unviable. Heck condi counters are already too strong as is.

You have necros who hard counter condis elementalists engineers firebrands heavily counter condis and turn them into boons revenants too hardcounter conditions and have access to resolution, just like guardians. The reason why condis burst, is because in a situation where power burst exist, a condi build has to survive long enough to guarantee death of their opponent, and it won't.

 

 

[Pyriel.4370]

1 minute ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

Conditions are already strongly countered heavily because people complain, and any further nerf would make condis completely obsolete and unviable. Heck condi counters are already too strong as is.

You have necros who hard counter condis elementalists engineers firebrands heavily counter condis and turn them into boons revenants too hardcounter conditions and have access to resolution, just like guardians. The reason why condis burst, is because in a situation where power burst exist, a condi build has to survive long enough to guarantee death of their opponent, and it won't.

 

 

I am repeatedly coming up against mostly or purely condi teams on solo ranked. It isn't a coincidence, also who plays firebrand in ranked at the moment? Only ever seen 1.

While condis may have hard counters in the game, the builds are not hard countered as these amulets give survivability to just run the spam over and over. If you had the ability to quickly burst down someone as a power player there is a trade off that you are glassy and easier to kill. The same is not true for condi currently. Take Fire Ele with the sage amulet (healing and vitality on top of 1000 condi damage and 1000 power), or any with the carrion or rabid amulets that give toughness or vitality on top of 1200 condi damage.

Simply put, they are ticking high damage with easily spammable condis and don't require any real trade-off. 

Condi builds and / or condis, need a nerf in pvp. Perhaps start with the amulets and make them killable. 

[saerni.2584]

Everything can die. If you can't kill a condi build it isn't them being condi that's the problem.

[Leonidrex.5649]

2 hours ago, Pyriel.4370 said:

Currently in the meta, condi is EVERYWHERE, effectively forcing people to take a lot of condi cleanse or just die.

 

How are you meant to achieve build diversity when a team of 2 - 4 condi players steamroll anyone without any huge cleanses? Even as a support guard, when cleansing appropriately, they're only reapplied en masse moments later over a literal multi-layered floor of death anywhere near a point because of aoe condi.

Simply, throw a necro, ele and thief in the mix and there is no point trying to get a cap. They will just burst to the point where it isn't a burst anymore, its just unreasonably high sustained damage. Throw in condi amulets that give you support in the realms of vitality, toughness or healing power (in the case of the sage amulet, vitality and healing power) while also giving you 1000+ condition damage. This makes builds that spam hard hitting condis become also hard to kill. 

It's leading to very cheap builds that are just being spammed where it literally feels like other players may as well have a delete button. I know no build is meant to survive a three person focus, but what about whole teams?

This does not scale properly to normal power precision also as simply put a hard hit can be dodged or blocked and that's it. Not one power-based AoE has the same spammability, range and duration as condi AoE.  The only power build that comes close by any stretch is DH trapper, and we are now seeing them apply heavy burn damage too.

 

Seriously, can't these be toned down to the point where we don't have to min max condi cleanse or die?

 

condi builds are not meta, In fact I would go as far and say that there is only 1 meta condi build, being weaver and even then its questionable.
Instead of complaining about something that is dogshit to the point of being almost unusable in high ranked play, learn to deal with them, and you will never have to complain again.
If you are getting kitten on by condi builds now, I can 100% guarantee that even if they get nerfed by 50% you will still be getting kitten on, as its you that is the problem and not the conditions.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Condi dps isnt meta aside from fireweaver. Condi pressure is everywhere though. So to be fair you still are getting killed because of condis when a necro or ranger hits you with chill, weakness, blind, cripple, immob and some other covers. Even classes like power herald and nade holo have significant condi pressure.

[saerni.2584]

12 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Condi dps isnt meta aside from fireweaver. Condi pressure is everywhere though. So to be fair you still are getting killed because of condis when a necro or ranger hits you with chill, weakness, blind, cripple, immob and some other covers. Even classes like power herald and nade holo have significant condi pressure.

Right, which is a function of how might operates to make both condi and power hit harder.

 

The scale is a bit weird for condi because lower numbers don't scale as much as higher numbers so you end up getting more benefit out of it if you actually specialize in condi damage. 
 

But the conditions of certain builds (using burning especially) already have good scaling so adding even a little condi from Might makes them hit decently hard (at least for a PvP situation).

Edited September 5, 2021 by saerni.2584

[RedAvenged.5217]

I find it funny when try hards come into chat and say - “it is a power meta” as they always do. They always say it is and yet condi build after condi build pops up that was leagues and above better than there power build.

 

remember the feb patch? Everyone in the game know it would be a condi bunker meta and yet the try hards came up with there power builds and o how wrong were they- literally nothing has changed and it is the same meta rn as we speak.

[Arheundel.6451]

47 minutes ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

I find it funny when try hards come into chat and say - “it is a power meta” as they always do. They always say it is and yet condi build after condi build pops up that was leagues and above better than there power build.

 

remember the feb patch? Everyone in the game know it would be a condi bunker meta and yet the try hards came up with there power builds and o how wrong were they- literally nothing has changed and it is the same meta rn as we speak.

Are you new on planet earth? Ofc players here would deny that the meta is condi, expecting anything else is like expecting politicians to admit their corruption, that's how people are...deny the truth to cover their own benefits

[RedAvenged.5217]

6 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Are you new on planet earth? Ofc players here would deny that the meta is condi, expecting anything else is like expecting politicians to admit their corruption, that's how people are...deny the truth to cover their own benefits

I mean yeah.

 

the saddest part is that anet believes them and nerfs the power builds and the has to nerf the condi builds- and this is why dp thief is so busted as they seemed to have taken half their advice from the dp thief mains and nerfed all the side noders that countered them.

 

it’s hilarious how gullible they must be to think that these sources were trust worthy

[Arheundel.6451]

1 hour ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

I mean yeah.

 

the saddest part is that anet believes them and nerfs the power builds and the has to nerf the condi builds- and this is why dp thief is so busted as they seemed to have taken half their advice from the dp thief mains and nerfed all the side noders that countered them.

 

it’s hilarious how gullible they must be to think that these sources were trust worthy

Obviously they keep/buff condi buids to sell copies of the game as easy gameplay=rewards attract paying whales , plenty of builds where you do dmg without ever pressing the dodge button or formulate complicate strategies around enemy boons/defenses...easy run in and press all buttons for easy condi AoE = game sell itself

 

Look at current playerbase and what is being played...I mean wvw is like 60% necros, 20% firebrands and rest is a mix of condi mirage and condi heralds

[Genesis.5169]

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Obviously they keep/buff condi buids to sell copies of the game as easy gameplay=rewards attract paying whales , plenty of builds where you do dmg without ever pressing the dodge button or formulate complicate strategies around enemy boons/defenses...easy run in and press all buttons for easy condi AoE = game sell itself

 

Look at current playerbase and what is being played...I mean wvw is like 60% necros, 20% firebrands and rest is a mix of condi mirage and condi heralds

 

There are no Firebrands or mirages around in ranked past gold 2 idk what your talking about, the rest of the stuff your making up you don't pvp at all do you.

[Arheundel.6451]

8 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

 

There are no Firebrands or mirages around in ranked past gold 2 idk what your talking about, the rest of the stuff your making up you don't pvp at all do you.

The value of your rank these days is equal to toilet paper, other than the non-sense you see on the forum always backed by this"I am platinum bla bla bla"....nobody gives a crap because even a trained hamster on a wheel can reach your so called "prestige" rank with enough time these days given the current balance

[Genesis.5169]

3 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

The value of your rank these days is equal to toilet paper, other than the non-sense you see on the forum always backed by this"I am platinum bla bla bla"....nobody gives a crap because even a trained hamster on a wheel can reach your so called "prestige" rank with enough time these days given the current balance

 

Yeah so everyone should be plat then right?

[Kuma.1503]

This is anecdotal, but this is most of what I see these days. 

 

Power Builds

Valk Ranger

Sic Em Soulbeast

Core Support Guard

Trapper DH

Stregnth SpB

Power Herald

Renegade

Prot Holo

Nade Holo

Scrapper

D/P DrD

Rifle DE (see a lot of these lately)

Scourge (Avatar)

Auramancer Tempest

LR Weaver

FA Weaver

 

Condi Builds

Trapper Ranger

Scourge (Sage)

Condi Herald (much less common after torment nerf)

Fire Weaver

P/D Thief (Less common than D/P)

Condi Mirage

Vanilla Necro

Core Burn Guard 

 

On average, if a class has a viable condi build and viable power build, the power build shows up more often. The plethora of scourges blindly following metabattle run Avatar instead of Sage. Guardian mains play Trapper DH and Core support more than Core burn. Valk Ranger pops up more often than condi trapper. 

 

Mirage and Weaver are the only two that come to mind that play condi more often than power. 

 

I'll repeat, this is all anecdotal, but form my experience, power is more prevelant than condi in the meta atm. 

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Kuma.1503

[Genesis.5169]

3 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

This is anecdotal, but this is most of what I see these days. 

 

Power Builds

Valk Ranger

Sic Em Soulbeast

Core Support Guard

Trapper DH

Stregnth SpB

Power Herald

Renegade

Prot Holo

Nade Holo

Scrapper

D/P DrD

Rifle DE (see a lot of these lately)

Scourge (Avatar)

Auramancer Tempest

LR Weaver

FA Weaver

 

Condi Builds

Trapper Ranger

Scourge (Sage)

Condi Herald (much less common after torment nerf)

Fire Weaver

P/D Thief (Less common than D/P)

Condi Mirage

Core Vanilla Necro

Core Burn Guard 

 

On average, if a class has a viable condi build and viable power build, the power build shows up more often. The plethora of scourges blindly following metabattle run Avatar instead of Sage. Guardian mains play Trapper DH and Core support more than Core burn. Valk Ranger pops up more often than condi trapper. 

 

Mirage and Weaver are the only two that come to mind that play condi more often than power. 

 

I'll repeat, this is all anecdotal, but form my experience, power is more prevelant than condi in the meta atm. 

 

 

This is pretty accurate for me except for two things.

For mirage's most of them are power, as for weaver past a certain rank you see less fire weavers and more FA scepter power ones.

 

But you did say for every condition build every class has a better power build so i'm just nitpicking ignore me.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Axl.8924]

4 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Are you new on planet earth? Ofc players here would deny that the meta is condi, expecting anything else is like expecting politicians to admit their corruption, that's how people are...deny the truth to cover their own benefits

I mean condi don't cease to exist but it sure seems like you want no condi specs at all, all power DPS.

Meanwhile you got hard counters so strong on classes that you outright delete the damage done such as scourge MM Firebrand eles and revs

 

Instead of complaining bring cleanses every class should have one.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I don't know why this keeps popping up that condi is meta. Its not meta and never has been in the history of PvP, and only for a brief time during WvW after HoT release with the Blood Reaper meta.

[lightDestroyer.1265]

6 hours ago, RedAvenged.5217 said:

I find it funny when try hards come into chat and say - “it is a power meta” as they always do. They always say it is and yet condi build after condi build pops up that was leagues and above better than there power build.

 

remember the feb patch? Everyone in the game know it would be a condi bunker meta and yet the try hards came up with there power builds and o how wrong were they- literally nothing has changed and it is the same meta rn as we speak.

There are only 2 coni builds worth mentioning,  weavee and scourge.  if condi was so good, then wouldnt they be winning monthly AT?  Condi dmg is much slower compared to power.  Ppl can cleanse at the right time to remove a lot of stacks of condi.  Simply put power is almost always better than condi due to the fast nature of dmg application.  Scourge and weavers are good cuz they have a lot of sustain in addition to the condi. 

[Grimjack.8130]

pepooga

[RedAvenged.5217]

8 hours ago, lightDestroyer.1265 said:

There are only 2 coni builds worth mentioning,  weavee and scourge.  if condi was so good, then wouldnt they be winning monthly AT?  Condi dmg is much slower compared to power.  Ppl can cleanse at the right time to remove a lot of stacks of condi.  Simply put power is almost always better than condi due to the fast nature of dmg application.  Scourge and weavers are good cuz they have a lot of sustain in addition to the condi. 

Mats don’t matter and never have there isn’t much players in the game that are good and creating new comps and the ones that do are just gate keeping it for themselves and there friends.

 

have you ever wondered why there’s gold players winning mats? Meanwhile actually good players who come up with actual meta builds get moot amounts of recognition...

[Ragnar.4257]

"Condi is OP"

"But Condi is only used by gold-players, and isn't used at all in MAT"

"Well, you see, gold players are actually better than MAT winners, it's just there's a conspiracy to suppress them. Therefore, because gold players are better than MAT winners, and gold players think condi is OP, condi must be OP. QED".

 

The mental gymnastics you have to go through to keep this up are amazing.

 

😂

 

[Mini Crinny.6190]

mentioning to nerf condi and mentioning anything related to Ele make anet like:

https://imgur.com/B3JLHPz

Edited September 5, 2021 by Mini Crinny.6190

[Khalisto.5780]

hhmm, are we playing the same game?

 

around 1500 rating, i'm usually facing supp guardian, double reaper (i think the old scourges moved to reaper after nerf), holo/thief + random build.

 

I even felt confortable to run a rabid/undead  weaver, cuz i'd face 4 power builds, and sometimes the one condi build would be a necro, that'd spend most of his time fighting mid, leaving me free to side node in a high toughness low cleasing build.

Sometimes you'll see a condi thief, trap ranger and fire weaver, but most common "random builds" will be a ranger or trap dh

[Leonidrex.5649]

1 hour ago, Mini Crinny.6190 said:

mentioning to nerf condi and mentioning anything related to Ele make anet like:

https://imgur.com/B3JLHPz

hmm yes, lets remove burning from FIRE weaver. hmm yes.
unbuttons his shirt and starts touching his nipples
hmm yes
( this is a south park reference, please dont hate me )