Hammer Ele confirmed

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

One think I look forward to is a reworking of Conjuror weapons. In the past the devs have said they try to avoid weapons that overlap with kits, which suggests that change might be coming, at least with Lightning Hammer.

[kurosy.1384]

I prefered any of the bows, but hammer was my 3rd choice considering that anet would make it particular and not just brutal melee weapon. Especially not melee ty. I really hope this is the case!
I wonder if it will actually throw a ball, or if it will be more about making and blasting fields (hammer would suit that a lot) or dropping heavy elemental bombs in a place. All the jade thing could actually make room for a fifth element (f5, not swappable to weapons but single skill) and the alchemy theory is really interesting and plausible.

I also just hope hammer won't be another staff (and considering that staff does all, it's gonna be hard xDD). Maybe some staff rework on the plans?

Anyway, i do feel the hype, bois *_*

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

I'm gonna wait this out till next week. The amount of assumption that "HaMmEr BaD" because of how other professions used it when Elementalists never touched it until this point is wild lel

I'm genuinely interested to see how ANet is gonna make Elementalist Hammer work and can't wait to see it next week, along with the other two E-Specs

[Nate Helix.8730]

Recycled engineer scrapper. Same animated gyro with hammer attacks animations. Can't you guys create a new Ele? A true fire/frost/air/lightning/earth Avatar like range caster?

 

New features and animations please.

Hammer ⚒️🔨 weapon? No, not interested.

[Puck.3697]

On 9/10/2021 at 8:36 PM, Vissarion.6509 said:

o let me get this straight, if they decide for a 2-handed weapon, and a conjure one, why not go for a Greatsword that so many wanted, and go for a "boring" hammer.

I guess we will see soon how cool and viable it will be, but just why?!.

because greatsword has a Overwhelmnig amounts of avaliable builds throughout proffessions and hammer doesnt?.. its good to see a Unused weapon build popularity.. so hopefully they do it justice.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

4 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

because greatsword has a Overwhelmnig amounts of avaliable builds throughout proffessions and hammer doesnt?.. its good to see a Unused weapon build popularity.. so hopefully they do it justice.

The problem is they heavily nerfed Hammers on other classes precisely because they used to be heavily used.

 

Warrior and Guardian Hammer were meta in the earlier days of competitive, especially since without gliding a single knock-back could mean certain death (and especially in Edge of the Mists). They were also the best way to do high damage numbers before all the powercreep, when slow-swinging and hard-hitting weapons were needed to get high single hits instead of raw, spammable and mindless DPS.

 

Rev Hammer was so extremely used and high damage it had to be cut down repeatedly just for Revs to use other weapons (and would likely still see heavy use if #2 wasn't extremely buggy), and Engi Hammer remains one of the most popular and effective kits in the game, yet to be ruined.

 

Even Ele's existing Lightning Hammer summon played a pivitol role in PvE for many years, with its Blast finisher auto-chain it was the go-to choice for stacking Might and providing heals via combo fields prior to Chrono/Druid.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[mortrialus.3062]

On 9/10/2021 at 2:36 PM, Vissarion.6509 said:

So let me get this straight, if they decide for a 2-handed weapon, and a conjure one, why not go for a Greatsword that so many wanted, and go for a "boring" hammer.

I guess we will see soon how cool and viable it will be, but just why?!.

I was hoping for Longbow since no light armor uses either bow.

[draxynnic.3719]

3 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

The problem is they heavily nerfed Hammers on other classes precisely because they used to be heavily used.

 

Warrior and Guardian Hammer were meta in the earlier days of competitive, especially since without gliding a single knock-back could mean certain death (and especially in Edge of the Mists). They were also the best way to do high damage numbers before all the powercreep, when slow-swinging and hard-hitting weapons were needed to get high single hits instead of raw, spammable and mindless DPS.

 

Rev Hammer was so extremely used and high damage it had to be cut down repeatedly just for Revs to use other weapons (and would likely still see heavy use if #2 wasn't extremely buggy), and Engi Hammer remains one of the most popular and effective kits in the game, yet to be ruined.

 

Even Ele's existing Lightning Hammer summon played a pivitol role in PvE for many years, with its Blast finisher auto-chain it was the go-to choice for stacking Might and providing heals via combo fields prior to Chrono/Druid.

Lightning Hammer also used to be really good as a survival melee weapon when playing solo - the autoattack blind replenished faster than a lot of mobs attacked, so they might never be able to land an attack.

[Puck.3697]

4 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

The problem is they heavily nerfed Hammers on other classes precisely because they used to be heavily used.

 

Warrior and Guardian Hammer were meta in the earlier days of competitive, especially since without gliding a single knock-back could mean certain death (and especially in Edge of the Mists). They were also the best way to do high damage numbers before all the powercreep, when slow-swinging and hard-hitting weapons were needed to get high single hits instead of raw, spammable and mindless DPS.

 

Rev Hammer was so extremely used and high damage it had to be cut down repeatedly just for Revs to use other weapons (and would likely still see heavy use if #2 wasn't extremely buggy), and Engi Hammer remains one of the most popular and effective kits in the game, yet to be ruined.

 

Even Ele's existing Lightning Hammer summon played a pivitol role in PvE for many years, with its Blast finisher auto-chain it was the go-to choice for stacking Might and providing heals via combo fields prior to Chrono/Druid.

 

no they were nerfed due to the decision Anet took to remove Damage from CC Attacks and abilities, which affected the orginal design of the hammer heavily as they were primarily CC Based weapons. however. that doesnt mean Elementalists hammers going to be executed as a CC based Weapon.

[Jin.8501]

Too bad, hopefully not ranged 

[draxynnic.3719]

2 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

no they were nerfed due to the decision Anet took to remove Damage from CC Attacks and abilities, which affected the orginal design of the hammer heavily as they were primarily CC Based weapons. however. that doesnt mean Elementalists hammers going to be executed as a CC based Weapon.

Hannelore is talking about balance decisions that were mostly made pre-HoT. Prior to the removal of damage from CC, guardian and warrior hammer were already down to the point of just being on the edge of the viability zone - you saw them occasionally, and they could be scary in the hands of someone who used them well, but you wouldn't exactly recommend them to an inexperienced PvEer. The CC nerfs tipped them over the edge (particularly warrior hammer which is half CC skills between Backbreaker, the knockback, and the adrenaline skill).

[Puck.3697]

33 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Hannelore is talking about balance decisions that were mostly made pre-HoT. Prior to the removal of damage from CC, guardian and warrior hammer were already down to the point of just being on the edge of the viability zone - you saw them occasionally, and they could be scary in the hands of someone who used them well, but you wouldn't exactly recommend them to an inexperienced PvEer. The CC nerfs tipped them over the edge (particularly warrior hammer which is half CC skills between Backbreaker, the knockback, and the adrenaline skill).

Well yes, but that doesnt mean we should never see a Hammer build based on it being meta 6 years ago odd now, Scrapper Hammer is actually done well, and held the test of time throughout the same nerfs, the weapon given is overall Pointless anyway, the new mechanic Utilities and abilities are effectively what will make or break the specc.

If we get a Decent hybrid build. which offers Wanted Party utility, with higher Self-Sustain and has maybe Some ranged Options it'll effectively fix every complaint surrounding the Proffession right now. look at the barrier bug on Weaver. people want it back, because taking the survivability problems of Elementalist away Leaves something alot of players Enjoy... Hammer is a good opportunity for anet to deliever on that.

Imho. i think its a Positive direction. its either gonna be a Ranged Weapon or a Brawler.. and Either answer Would please atleast 50% of the complaints surrounding the specc. I dont hold high hopes if its a Ranged weapon given anets past, if hammers ranged i bet we go back to Dagger/Dagger if the new mechanic is another power creep on Weaver personally. anet dont have a good reputation for upholding Pure Ranged Speccs.

we can see mesmers Dagger. but lets face it, it wasnt good in SPVP. it wasnt that great in WvWvW and im pretty certain in PvE its weapon swap is a Melee weapon which means you still sit in mainly Melee with the build.

unless ofcourse ele does actually get Weapon Swap.. which we could Run hammer Dagger/Dagger or maybe even Staff Dagger/Dagger where we contribute utility with our Ranged Options and use melee primiarily for DPS.

but if it turns out ranged atleast it'll answer some peoples Prayers on the matter of a "real caster option" unless ofcourse  i turn out correct and we get a Ranged Option. thats worse then our melee options.. then no ones happy unless the new mechanic is Awesome 😛

Edited September 12, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[draxynnic.3719]

17 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Well yes, but that doesnt mean we should never see a Hammer build based on it being meta 6 years ago odd now, Scrapper Hammer is actually done well, and held the test of time throughout the same nerfs, the weapon given is overall Pointless anyway, the new mechanic Utilities and abilities are effectively what will make or break the specc.

If we get a Decent hybrid build. which offers Wanted Party utility, with higher Self-Sustain and has maybe Some ranged Options it'll effectively fix every complaint surrounding the Proffession right now. look at the barrier bug on Weaver. people want it back, because taking the survivability problems of Elementalist away Leaves something alot of players Enjoy... Hammer is a good opportunity for anet to deliever on that.

Imho. i think its a Positive direction. its either gonna be a Ranged Weapon or a Brawler.. and Either answer Would please atleast 50% of the complaints surrounding the specc. I dont hold high hopes if its a Ranged weapon given anets past, if hammers ranged i bet we go back to Dagger/Dagger if the new mechanic is another power creep on Weaver personally. anet dont have a good reputation for upholding Pure Ranged Speccs.

we can see mesmers Dagger. but lets face it, it wasnt good in SPVP. it wasnt that great in WvWvW and im pretty certain in PvE its weapon swap is a Melee weapon which means you still sit in mainly Melee with the build.

unless ofcourse ele does actually get Weapon Swap.. which we could Run hammer Dagger/Dagger or maybe even Staff Dagger/Dagger where we contribute utility with our Ranged Options and use melee primiarily for DPS.

but if it turns out ranged atleast it'll answer some peoples Prayers on the matter of a "real caster option" unless ofcourse  i turn out correct and we get a Ranged Option. thats worse then our melee options.. then no ones happy unless the new mechanic is Awesome 😛

I think that's kinda the point being made. The anti-hammer people are pretty much campaigning on a platform of 'hammers have always been bad and will always be bad'. Which is a false claim - every hammer in the game has been meta at some point. Hambow was pretty dominant early in GW2, for example. Most are a little behind the curve at the moment, but that's more because of balancing (and bugs in the case of rev) rather than there being some kind of hammer curse.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Ele with ammo mechanic similar to shatters, when you change attunement you get one orb, than you baseball bat the kitten out of those orbs.

Meh, first thing that came to my mind when I saw the image.

[draxynnic.3719]

36 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Well yes, but that doesnt mean we should never see a Hammer build based on it being meta 6 years ago odd now, Scrapper Hammer is actually done well, and held the test of time throughout the same nerfs, the weapon given is overall Pointless anyway, the new mechanic Utilities and abilities are effectively what will make or break the specc.

If we get a Decent hybrid build. which offers Wanted Party utility, with higher Self-Sustain and has maybe Some ranged Options it'll effectively fix every complaint surrounding the Proffession right now. look at the barrier bug on Weaver. people want it back, because taking the survivability problems of Elementalist away Leaves something alot of players Enjoy... Hammer is a good opportunity for anet to deliever on that.

Imho. i think its a Positive direction. its either gonna be a Ranged Weapon or a Brawler.. and Either answer Would please atleast 50% of the complaints surrounding the specc. I dont hold high hopes if its a Ranged weapon given anets past, if hammers ranged i bet we go back to Dagger/Dagger if the new mechanic is another power creep on Weaver personally. anet dont have a good reputation for upholding Pure Ranged Speccs.

we can see mesmers Dagger. but lets face it, it wasnt good in SPVP. it wasnt that great in WvWvW and im pretty certain in PvE its weapon swap is a Melee weapon which means you still sit in mainly Melee with the build.

unless ofcourse ele does actually get Weapon Swap.. which we could Run hammer Dagger/Dagger or maybe even Staff Dagger/Dagger where we contribute utility with our Ranged Options and use melee primiarily for DPS.

but if it turns out ranged atleast it'll answer some peoples Prayers on the matter of a "real caster option" unless ofcourse  i turn out correct and we get a Ranged Option. thats worse then our melee options.. then no ones happy unless the new mechanic is Awesome 😛

Sorry about quoting the same post twice, but I'm on my phone and wanted to address a different point that was raised:

 

Personally, my hope for hammer is that it will be either close range or long range depending on the attunement. That way, it can replicate what other professions can achieve through weapon swapping - if you need the range you use the elements that offer long range attacks, while when things get close you can switch to the melee-oriented attunements. So you'd get the benefit of being able to swap to the element that's suitable for the range that you're fighting at, at the price of only having two elements that are suitable for that range.

 

Probably have fire and earth being melee, since Sunspot and the Earth version both really want you to be at close range, while Lightning Discharge and Healing Ripple are still fairly functional even if you have some distance from the enemy.

[Arheundel.6451]

2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Sorry about quoting the same post twice, but I'm on my phone and wanted to address a different point that was raised:

 

Personally, my hope for hammer is that it will be either close range or long range depending on the attunement. That way, it can replicate what other professions can achieve through weapon swapping - if you need the range you use the elements that offer long range attacks, while when things get close you can switch to the melee-oriented attunements. So you'd get the benefit of being able to swap to the element that's suitable for the range that you're fighting at, at the price of only having two elements that are suitable for that range.

 

Probably have fire and earth being melee, since Sunspot and the Earth version both really want you to be at close range, while Lightning Discharge and Healing Ripple are still fairly functional even if you have some distance from the enemy.

You ask too much out of Anet...I wouldn't keep my hopes up I'd be you 

[draxynnic.3719]

3 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

You ask too much out of Anet...I wouldn't keep my hopes up I'd be you 

Eh. If they don't do it, I'll just shrug and judge whatever they do do according to its merits. But whether it happens now or at some time in the future, I think it's more likely to happen if people talk about it as something they'd like to see than if they don't. ArenaNet doesn't always pay attention to what the player base is asking for, but they do sometimes.

 

I also think it's more likely that something like this might happen than a "give up two attunements for a weaponswap" approach.

[Infusion.7149]

It's more likely that fire+earth are the condi damage attunements on the weapon rather than the range limit.

If they're the condi damage attunements then long range wouldn't matter as much. High power damage at range is heavily nerfed due to lower available counter-play (see fresh air scepter , staff on ele, or CoR on revenant hammer).
High condi damage at range is usually kept intact for the most part at least in PVE, see condi shortbow rangers, condi holo (see grenades in particular and to a lesser extent flamethrower memes), condi renegade shortbow variants, p/d condi deadeye (which I believe was also ran in PVP for a bit), condi mirage with scepter or staff, condi berserker longbow, and condi scourge. Arguably you can run a condi scepter weaver even if it isn't meta, Fennec from qT guild benched it at ~39K.

The way that could be balanced simply is putting burning/bleeding as the main damage output on fire and earth with very little defensive utility while putting more CC/vuln on air and water while having DoTs on it (see lava font, invoke lightning, Thunderclap on scrapper). Having CC as part of the skills would allow for DoTs to be more effective because more hits would be enabled. Think of Deep Freeze (chill) before Meteor Shower in GW1. If they are high damage large hits then there will certainly be some sort of limitation such as cast time, conditional statements (such as "against disabled foes" or "against chilled foes"), radius, or range.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[draxynnic.3719]

I don't think the 'ranged power won't be allowed because it lacks counterplay' argument holds. Sure, some examples have been heavily nerfed, but others such as ranger longbow, thief pewpew, and necromancer axe (which can't even be countered by projectile destruction) still remain, and Virtuoso seems pretty much designed as a long-range power spec even if it has a few nods to other styles in the traits.

 

Meanwhile, if you look at the 'trigger X when changing to this attunement' minor traits - two assume that you'll be close to your enemies to deal damage, and two do not. It makes sense, then, for it to be the attunements that potentially generate a PBAoE effect to be the ones that you switch to for close combat.

[Infusion.7149]

Ranger longbow is bursty but rapid fire has an obvious tell and a channel time of 2.5s , plus it is not AOE and is destroyed by projectile hate. That's what I mean by cast time or other limitations. Necromancer axe is also channeled (1.75s) on Ghastly Claws with zero AOE to speak of, Thief "pew pew" is not exactly a power build and is countered by projectile destruction. Unload on thief has a sound effect and channel time. of 1.5s with zero AOE.

[draxynnic.3719]

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Ranger longbow is bursty but rapid fire has an obvious tell and a channel time of 2.5s , plus it is not AOE and is destroyed by projectile hate. That's what I mean by cast time or other limitations. Necromancer axe is also channeled (1.75s) on Ghastly Claws with zero AOE to speak of, Thief "pew pew" is not exactly a power build and is countered by projectile destruction. Unload on thief has a sound effect and channel time. of 1.5s with zero AOE.

Similar observations could be made for the condi stuff you've cited - mostly projectiles, single-target, and/or channels. The only builds that can do sustained long-range pressure that's multitarget, not reliant on projectiles, and not reliant on channels are scourge and greatsword mirage.

 

And you haven't even addressed that one of the new elite specialisations already focuses on long-range power damage.

 

So again, I'm not seeing any trend indicating that long-range conditions are okay but long-range power is not.

[Infusion.7149]

5 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Similar observations could be made for the condi stuff you've cited - mostly projectiles, single-target, and/or channels. The only builds that can do sustained long-range pressure that's multitarget, not reliant on projectiles, and not reliant on channels are scourge and greatsword mirage.

 

And you haven't even addressed that one of the new elite specialisations already focuses on long-range power damage.

 

So again, I'm not seeing any trend indicating that long-range conditions are okay but long-range power is not.

Have you seen people play virtuoso or played it yourself?
It has huge animations and the dagger AoE is slow. Every shatter on it is projectile. If you mean harbinger, that's essentially a condi spec , all the shroud skills focus on torment which is not as good in competitive modes compared to PVE.

[Mik.3401]

I think a blunt weapon perfectly matches Ele as they are kind of a ‘nature acolytes’ apart from being mages. I’m excited to see the skills!

I don’t think blades apart from daggers match eles at all, the sword weaver feels already like a stretch to satisfy the moaning Ele mains. Now I can see they moan they want a GS 😂- this is not the kind of class

Edited September 13, 2021 by Mik.3401

[draxynnic.3719]

8 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Have you seen people play virtuoso or played it yourself?
It has huge animations and the dagger AoE is slow. Every shatter on it is projectile. If you mean harbinger, that's essentially a condi spec , all the shroud skills focus on torment which is not as good in competitive modes compared to PVE.

I have. It's still a power ranged oriented weapon and specialisation, which according to your hypothesis ArenaNet shouldn't even be attempting.

 

You seem to be pushing a double standard, expecting power ranged damage to be AoE projectile-less fire-and-forget skills, even though precious few condi weapons do that either. Ranger shortbow? Projectile, the second skill is a spread so you want to be at point blank to get all five hits on a single target, and all the other skills are utility, no AoE apart from piercing. Condi holo? Projectiles, and the unload-like skill in holoforge is a channeled projectile skill just like Unload. Condi renegade shortbow? Projectiles, although there are some skills that aren't, and did you know that power renegade shortbow is also a thing, and in fact the dominant renegade build in sPvP at the moment? Condi p/d thief? No less reliant on channeled projectile attacks than power p/p thief. Condi mirage? If anything more reliant on projectiles than power mesmers. Condi berserker warrior? Projectiles, apart from the burst skill. Scepter weavers, from what I've see, are more likely to be running power stats than condition stats.

 

So yeah, again, I don't see any credible evidence for the trend you're claiming.

Edited September 13, 2021 by draxynnic.3719

[Arheundel.6451]

8 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Have you seen people play virtuoso or played it yourself?
It has huge animations and the dagger AoE is slow. Every shatter on it is projectile. If you mean harbinger, that's essentially a condi spec , all the shroud skills focus on torment which is not as good in competitive modes compared to PVE.

Where do you see the huge animations? For me something shouting huge animation would be equivalent to Meteor storm ...not something on less than 1s cast time.... https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Virtuoso

 

This is not a big animation

 

This is a god forsaken big animation!