New elite specialization: The Vindicator

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Gonna spend a lot of next week working on a good WvW support build. I actually see some potential in it and am excited to experiment. A few things I'd like to know...

 

For the Saint Viktor elite skill (urn)

- Does it decrease or increase movement speed? Decreased movement speed would be pretty bad.

- Does the pulsing self-damage get reduced by damage reduction? If so, could be cool to go into it after a Jalis elite.

- Is the pulsing damage fixed, or does it scale with power? With healing power maybe? 

- Does the urn follow you around? Really hope so. 

 

How much healing power does he have on his character? If I had to take a guess it'd be 0, and if so, the heal dodge seems *extremely* strong. Regardless that'll prob be the default for PvP/smallscale WvW because 150 endurance for 1 dodge on the top GM is huge; 50 for the bottom GM is way more manageable. 

 

Can you gain boons/affects from allies while you are in your dodge-state? Hope so...based on where your AoE marker is.

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Za Shaloc.3908

[Silesium.5623]

29 minutes ago, quaniesan.8497 said:

Vindicator:  well-put together mechanics and creative gameplay.

 

Compared to this, the Willbender is like the essay I started 3 hours before deadline while hungover.

Looks like the last spec from pof that was op now have meh spec guard/necro/mesmer. rev/war/ele have like mid tier of design and thife/engi/reng will get better best space design but we all know its all beta still and each spec gone get buff/nerf at last 10 times. {not every spec for guard have to be amazing}

[Silesium.5623]

19 minutes ago, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

Gonna spend a lot of next week working on a good WvW support build. I actually see some potential in it and am excited to experiment. A few things I'd like to know...

 

For the Saint Viktor elite skill (urn)

- Does it decrease or increase movement speed? Decreased movement speed would be pretty bad.

- Does the pulsing self-damage get reduced by damage reduction? If so, could be cool to go into it after a Jalis elite.

- Is the pulsing damage fixed, or does it scale with power? With healing power maybe? 

- Does the urn follow you around? Really hope so. 

 

How much healing power does he have on his character? If I had to take a guess it'd be 0, and if so, the heal dodge seems *extremely* strong. Regardless that'll prob be the default for PvP/smallscale WvW because 150 endurance for 1 dodge on the top GM is huge; 50 for the bottom GM is way more manageable. 

 

Can you gain boons/affects from allies while you are in your dodge-state? Hope so...based on where your AoE marker is.

 

From what I saw on stram urn is like buff/debuff that show above ur head and move with u its take all ur pips so drain energy very fast also drain hp. u get -50%dmg/cdmg and speed up 50% but that speed dont know if its gone be reduce in combat like runa of speed when u have speed on u ur speed change from 25 to 50 but in combat its slows. I want to see how far evode skill can take u and looks of it as long u have elita space on u can use any weapon to use that endurence leap

[GrayHawk.7560]

9 hours ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

It's about 3500 heal on a 10s cd. The Arch version can heal for more based on targets, while Viktor is AoE. Seems good to me.

That's not even taking into account that on Arch heal on 5 6arge6s he insta hit 25 might and 25 vulnerable on all 5, plus that translates to battle scars and it procs its own battle scars which ends up being an absolutely ridiculous heal if it hits multiple targets.  It ends up being a might generating Ice Razors which can be cast back to back if traited properly AND you get a third heal 8 seconds later (not even taking into account the fourth heal on swap or the minor traits heal and regen).... it's far from weak.

[GrayHawk.7560]

2 hours ago, Heinel.6548 said:

 

Well, for a bit of a silver lining in all the negativity, vindicator as it appears seems extremely casual friendly. Maybe even more so than heralds, as you don't even need to worry about energy. GS has a lot of vulnerability on skill 1 and 2, and that means battle scars and self heals. Just cleave away and watch your health go up. If you also take the heal dodge, it cost the same as the normal dodge and looks like the dodge frames are longer, so you actually get more evade than normal and it also heals and gives you barrier. The alliance stance shananigans may seem complicated, but you don't actually have to take it. just use shiro and turn on impossible odds and you'll probably fare better than average player in open world. 

Looking at Vuln, the Archemorus heal on 5 targets is a very quick 25 might 25 vuln with self proccing battle scars as well so yeh, in open world or zerg  scenarios which is basically what the spec is for that's crazy healing

[quaniesan.8497]

1 hour ago, Silesium.5623 said:

{not every spec for guard have to be amazing}

I'm not asking anything to be over the top.  But they should be at least not that bad. Willbender at the moment seems to be banking on that Aegis shatter gimmicky exploitation to get some damage pops in group fight.  Sword offhands simply disastrous.  Iwonder how the utility skills compete with core utilities.   And it's kinda bad when someone say your work isn't amazing, isnt it?  

Well, we'll see what they come up with   after all the feedbacks. 

[Telgum.6071]

59 minutes ago, GrayHawk.7560 said:

Looking at Vuln, the Archemorus heal on 5 targets is a very quick 25 might 25 vuln with self proccing battle scars as well so yeh, in open world or zerg  scenarios which is basically what the spec is for that's crazy healing

That is 100% going to be nerfed on release if not before.

[Silesium.5623]

7 minutes ago, quaniesan.8497 said:

I'm not asking anything to be over the top.  But they should be at least not that bad. Willbender at the moment seems to be banking on that Aegis shatter gimmicky exploitation to get some damage pops in group fight.  Sword offhands simply disastrous.  Iwonder how the utility skills compete with core utilities.   And it's kinda bad when someone say your work isn't amazing, isnt it?  

Well, we'll see what they come up with   after all the feedbacks. 

If we talking about weapons look at herald shild skill one small heal with 2sec protection that u have to wait for and shild that force you to sit in place and wait for ur demise or penetrate be range of skills with pirce

[Silesium.5623]

Any way willbender was in first show so there is still lot of time to polish

[Kidel.2057]

The only thing I didn't like is  Saint Viktor elite skill (urn). 

 

Aside from that Vindicator looks super cool. I'm hyped, can't wait to try it. 

[BadSanta.6527]

6 hours ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

Who said anything about replacing FB? You are playing as a dps that can also share stability for free. It's part of the legend your were going to use anyway.

You are judging this as a support spec, I'm talking dps. If you want to share boons, you have herald for defense and renegade for offense.

It can play similar to scourge, a mainly dps class that still has group utility. As for the dodge, you are not going to purposefully dodge spam, but in real fights and not golem rotations, you will have to dodge eventually and when you do, you will help your team. The only other option is to take the 150 endurance dodge that gives a damage buff, but that's 15% damage and the animation seemed the longest of the three, so I don't think it will make sense to try to maintain that buff.

Anyway, no point in trying to theorise the damage potential without access to the spec.

Lol you reqlly thing vendicator going to be in the same lvl of scourage? You gotta be kidding 

[GrayHawk.7560]

1 hour ago, Telgum.6071 said:

That is 100% going to be nerfed on release if not before.

 No doubt.  Healing aside, take a bit of boon duration, boom insta 25 might at the beginning of the fight.

[Kidel.2057]

F2 is pretty much useless when not on Legendary Alliance. It should give you something based on the other legends too. Like Alacrity/Heal on Vintari, Stability on Jalis and so on. 

[Buran.3796]

5 hours ago, quaniesan.8497 said:

Vindicator:  well-put together mechanics and creative gameplay.

 

Compared to this, the Willbender is like the essay I started 3 hours before deadline while hungover.

  Both are bottom tier to me but at least with WB you can chose one physical skill if gets buffed, whereas with the Vindicator you want a skill you need to commit to the full package and suffer the handicap of the single evade. 

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

16 hours ago, Ausar.9542 said:

it just gives back Endurance when used with other legends. 

Oh thank you. I missed that part.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

13 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

 

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's noticed a marked decline in the new animations and skill icons. The skill icons are a total eyesore for the EoD specs.

 

And the skill animations are super muted in traits and projectiles, probably to reduce their workload with legendary effects.

 

The effects of the skill impacts on all the greatsword and utility skills are barely noticeable. The only visual distinction I see is in the dodge impact landing and elite Kurzick effect.

Yea, I noticed that too and am a bit concerned with it too.  I hope that add some more effects than what we just saw. Yeah yeah, visual noise, blah blah, but I for one don’t care about that, especially when I’m solo or in a small group. I want to see my spell effects plz.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Lonewolf Kai.3682

[Urphen.2857]

im the only one that dislike the dodge mechanic? the traits revolve around this mechanic, for ow it can be fun but for pve endcontent? damage doesent seems high so you lose much in the time you fly and the first times maybe its fun but i can see it will get fast boring since the traits show your go to playstyle ist spamming dodge...

i had prefered if the traits was more about the alliance legend and not the dodge

[Chaos.7614]

1 hour ago, Urphen.2857 said:

im the only one that dislike the dodge mechanic? the traits revolve around this mechanic, for ow it can be fun but for pve endcontent? damage doesent seems high so you lose much in the time you fly and the first times maybe its fun but i can see it will get fast boring since the traits show your go to playstyle ist spamming dodge...

i had prefered if the traits was more about the alliance legend and not the dodge

Probably not, but I think the issue is more the damage modifiers in the traitline. There's a lot more emphasis on dodging augmentation than increasing damage. At least one trait with a +% damage while under the effects of vigor/not full endurance would be nice. Balance in Discord seems very weak, even for a minor. No idea what the coefficients are on the dodge attack but it needs to be decent to offset the downtime.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Chaos.7614

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

1 hour ago, Urphen.2857 said:

im the only one that dislike the dodge mechanic? the traits revolve around this mechanic, for ow it can be fun but for pve endcontent? damage doesent seems high so you lose much in the time you fly and the first times maybe its fun but i can see it will get fast boring since the traits show your go to playstyle ist spamming dodge...

i had prefered if the traits was more about the alliance legend and not the dodge

I think them focusing too much on the Endurance side of things for this particular mechanic rather than actually providing better traitlines on the Alliance Utilities is one of the few issues I have with this E-Spec. Hearing them say that there's always some level of Endurance Recovery on a good number of those traits kinda feels like they shoehorned the No Dodge aspect of this E-Spec a little too much. 

That said though, I'll see how it plays in Strike Missions and Dungeons and some instanced Meta like Dragonstorm and Marionette just to see how it feels in different environments. 

[anonymous.7812]

Didn't see it in the preview, but does anyone possibly know what happens to your duality skills on legend swap? Do they retain their current state or revert back to Archemorus?

[Monarc.9726]

10 hours ago, Silesium.5623 said:

Looks like the last spec from pof that was op now have meh spec guard/necro/mesmer. rev/war/ele have like mid tier of design and thife/engi/reng will get better best space design but we all know its all beta still and each spec gone get buff/nerf at last 10 times. {not every spec for guard have to be amazing}

Pretty sure Holosmith, Deadeye and Soulbeast were good e-specs for PoF as well, certainly not meh specs.

 

Also, all specs should be created equally, that’s just good design. Not always possible, but that should at least be the goal. I expect a major overhaul for Willbender and major tweaks for Harbinger shroud, elixirs and traits.

 

Anyway, excited about trying out a Celestial Vindicator build, lots of might stacking and heal/sustain potential. Could be really good for certain game modes.

[Gustaff.6581]

This profesion looks very versatile, just got some questions to be prepared when release.

Which legend do i pair with legendary alliance? it seems like shiro for Damage and Ventari for healer.

Also what stats can be usefull? it seems like berserk plus healing power, the idea is to get the most from both Archemorus and St. Victor.

[Angesombre.4630]

What also worries me is the care in elite to see in game what it gives but with the damage that we receive and as it was said and I also hope that the urn moves with us. 
For the jump or dodge I hope that it is not telescoped and that it is not so simple to avoid otherwise I would propose that we can choose to go down more quickly to be able to change the delay. I would like to know what happens when you are in the air. Do you take damage, buffs or alteration?

[Kidel.2057]

2 hours ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

What also worries me is the care in elite to see in game what it gives but with the damage that we receive and as it was said and I also hope that the urn moves with us. 
For the jump or dodge I hope that it is not telescoped and that it is not so simple to avoid otherwise I would propose that we can choose to go down more quickly to be able to change the delay. I would like to know what happens when you are in the air. Do you take damage, buffs or alteration?

You're probably going to use the healing one in pvp/wvw for self sustain and support. They've also said so in the stream. 

The damaging ones are super telegraphed for sure, otherwise they're broken and unfair to other players. PvE mobs won't dodge it anyway. 

[Knighthonor.4061]

Whats the health threshold for the Urn drop skill? I dont understand it