Nerf Stability, Rework Chill, Buff Blocking

[nopoet.2960]

Stability is currently immunity to control effects.  It feels good to have it but miserable to play against.  Also, immunity in general just seems wrong and it screws things up especially when you gain it passively.  I would like to see Stability changed so it reduces the effectiveness of Control effects by 66%.  That would mean a 66% reduction in duration of knock down, stun, dazed, fear, and taunted and a 66% reduction in distance for push back, pulled, launched, floated and sunk.  It would stack duration and would not be removed when you are hit with a control effect.

 

Chilled is weirdly powerful to be so uninteresting.  So, to make it more interesting, I would like for it to be a stacking condition; up to 3.  The first stack would reduce movement speed by 50% and recharge by 30%.  The second stack would reduce movement speed by 75% and recharge by 55% but also increase the targets armor by 50%.  The third stack would completely freeze the target in a block of ice and increase its armor by 100%.  Players would also be able to break out of ice with a stun break. 

 

Blocking with a weapon skill; not the block effect should be buffed.  My way of doing that would be to give every skill across the board the ability to taunt the current target if it is in weapon range.  I’m talking about a 1 sec. taunt.  Yes, it would be disruptive, but I think in the best way possible giving players who use shields, maces, and offhand swords a new way to play their weapons.

 

What do you guys think? Too much, too little?

[Infusion.7149]

This is a  terrible idea. Originally stability access was going to be split for WVW in the Feb 2020 patch and nobody agreed it would be  good for the game overall.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Cyninja.2954]

18 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

This is a  terrible idea. Originally stability access was going to be split for WVW in the Feb 2020 patch and nobody agreed it would be  good for the game overall.

This.

Not having a way to deal with player control loss is a terrible idea.

Now can stability be reworked? Sure. Would the new system still require some way for players to combat character control loss? Absolutely.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Touchme.1097]

I think Chilled is strong as it is, no need to make it OP with further buffs. Stability is ok as it is, it offers counterplay to some conditions

[Xanadrine.4352]

I sure do think there are too many stuns and cc's in this game. I dont want any breaks or stability nerfed. I think the cc's and stuns need to be looked at before stability.

[Doggie.3184]

Chill should crystalize their blood and make them take damage on movement like the original torment. Stacking it high enough should freeze them solid and hitting them shatters their body everywhere. They also shouldn't be able to be rezzed unless you collect all the pieces and put them back together first. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Doggie.3184

[Bunny.9834]

There's so many CC attacks in the current game that you already often get stunlock even in SPvP. Combine that with the crazy immobs of the current Condi Metas... 

 

Chill is fine. 

 

Blocking is fine. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

As a Guardian player I feel like this is salt being tossed in my direction.

Fortunately, my Aegis has blocked it.

[Sylvyn.4750]

Didn't Anet give you enough boon rips to combat stability?  The only real issue here might be that Stab appears to be the last boon usually removed:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/62799-list-of-skill-and-trait-boon-rip-priority-here/

[fatihso.7258]

While at it nerf also reflect and immune creep specially in wvw.

[Astralporing.1957]

6 hours ago, fatihso.7258 said:

While at it nerf also reflect and immune creep specially in wvw.

Thanks but no. I'd rather not get hit with the general projectile weapon nerf that would surely follow that.

[nopoet.2960]

16 hours ago, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

There's so many CC attacks in the current game that you already often get stunlock even in SPvP. Combine that with the crazy immobs of the current Condi Metas... 

 

Chill is fine. 

 

Blocking is fine. 

So you wouldn't give up cc immunity for more stability uptime even though it would still severely reduce the  effectiveness of those cc attacks?  So like the 2 sec stun on mesmer pistol would be reduced to a little more than a half of a second if stability was changed based on my suggestion AND you get to keep stability for rest of the duration.

[Mungrul.9358]

Warrior here, and stability wouldn't be so bad if ANet hadn't removed damage from our CC.

With permastab and the damage nerf, a lot of hammer and mace skills may as well not exist.

 

Maybe make it so stability's a trade-off:

Without stability, you get controlled, but don't take damage from CC skills.

With stability, you don't get controlled, but take damage from CC skills.

[nopoet.2960]

10 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Warrior here, and stability wouldn't be so bad if ANet hadn't removed damage from our CC.

With permastab and the damage nerf, a lot of hammer and mace skills may as well not exist.

 

Maybe make it so stability's a trade-off:

Without stability, you get controlled, but don't take damage from CC skills.

With stability, you don't get controlled, but take damage from CC skills.

There's something really interesting here.  What if CC skills had there damage split?  You would first take strike damage from the hit then additional damage as a result of being knocked down, launched, stunned or whatever.   That would allow Anet to do the thing you suggest but also give them a tool to fine tune the skills for different game modes.  

 

Anyway, I still think that CC immunity is a bad thing for the game but you guys have also convinced me the problem is bigger than just stability.  I don't think the devs considered how cc would work when you scale up the encounters in pvp.  PVE has defiance.  I almost think pvp should have a reverse defiance bar where you gain resistance to CC (maybe to the point of immunity) the more you are hit with control effects over a certain amount of time.  Maybe stability just advances the bar quickly.

[Cyninja.2954]

10 hours ago, nopoet.2960 said:

So you wouldn't give up cc immunity for more stability uptime even though it would still severely reduce the  effectiveness of those cc attacks?  So like the 2 sec stun on mesmer pistol would be reduced to a little more than a half of a second if stability was changed based on my suggestion AND you get to keep stability for rest of the duration.

cc immunity is the only worthwhile aspect of stability. There is no point in more uptime if the main reason for the boon is removed.

Half a second of being cced means death in most cases where stability is needed. Have you spent half a second in a bomb of a WvW blob? Or spent half a second while being focused by 2-3 players in spvp?

Also that's half a second from 1 cc skill. What about getting chain cced from multiple cc skills used in short succession? Currently a player can be made immune  to some extent via multiple application of stability. With simply reduced duration you are once again faced with multiple instances of multiple short duration cc skills taking effect.

That's your problem, you are looking at this from an individual skill perspective. Stability gains its use and main advantage, and to be honest main necessity, in situations where it's more than 1 assailant. For single opponent situations you bring stun breaks.

It's a hard balance. Stability is not the only skill/boon/effect which is affected by this, the balance between having 2, 3 or 20 players using the same skill versus 1 players. It is the one most noticeable though because control loss is not only very powerful, but also very un-fun to play against.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[nopoet.2960]

Ok so new suggestion for diminishing returns on control effects.

The mechanic would be called Insolence.  Insolence has three tiers.  Every time a player is hit with a control effect they gain one tier of Insolence for 2 to 3 seconds after the effect has worn off.  The first tier reduces the duration/distance of control effects by 33%.  The second 66% .  The third grants immunity. 

 

So lets say you are hit with a 2 second stun.  You would be stunned for 2 seconds then gain Insolence for 2 to 3 seconds.  If you are are again hit with a 2 second stun the stun would only last for 1.3 seconds.  You would also gain an additional tier of Insolence after the stun wore off.  You now have tier 2 Insolence.  If you are hit again with a 2 second stun it would only last .6 seconds.  You would also gain the final tier of Insolence for 2 to 3 seconds making you immune to control effects.  

 

In this model Stability would change to  grant 2 tiers of Insolence.

[kharmin.7683]

Getting struck multiple times reduces the impact?  That doesn't seem to make sense to me.

[Touchme.1097]

2 hours ago, nopoet.2960 said:

Ok so new suggestion for diminishing returns on control effects.

There is no need to implement diminishing returns into this game because stunbreaks, stability, condi removal and Resistance exist.

Some professions actually need more CC, especially Thieves. More CC=better gaming experience overall in all modes.

I have seen zergs of pugs who struggle to break a blue bar many times, not just in PvE, so CC is actually lacking.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Touchme.1097

[nopoet.2960]

4 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Getting struck multiple times reduces the impact?  That doesn't seem to make sense to me.

For game play reasons only.  It doesn't have to make sense.  Dominating your enemy to the point where they can't even respond is one of the most satisfying things that a player can do to an opponent.  On the flip side, forcibly losing control on your character so they can't even respond to a threat is probably the worst experience a player can have.  Control Effects exist so there must be a way to combat them.  In my opinion stability goes to far by providing immunity.  I've tried to find some middle ground with diminishing returns  on control effects.  It allows players to knock you around a bit but only to a point.  Insolence, as I call it, is your character saying enough is enough.