Vindicator Feedback Thread

[Angesombre.4630]

I tested vindicator dnas the fractal etherblade on the boards climbed the skill Eternity's Requiem (skill 5 gs) passed to the top floor instead of attacking the mob in the climb.

I find it quite annoying to switch to the blue skill in a fight for a dps loss to just remove the alteration that's why I find it a shame that the blue skill doesn't do a minimum of damage, knowing that the buffs brought are not crazy either. If you look at the duide it does a little bit of damage, the scourge also and if you look at the full heal ventari also does none.

[Polar.8634]

The weakest spec out of all other eod for wvw ATM. Still weak to condi because other specs have some condi cleanse somewhere in traits, vindi only has 1 cleanse per legend swap and tree song, which is costly and u need to swap 2! Legends to get it, by the time u do it u are dead. Condi is dominant now so it's big. Dodge is big animation and CD, after u dodge everybody around knows u don't have dodge and focuses you. Power burst on GS is ok, but no cc to lend it often, daze on alliance stance has cast time AND is stun break, if u use it for cc u have no dodge and stunbreak and u are dead. In squad play 1 dodge makes u lag behind squad, not able to dodge second bomb and stay on tag. I am very disappointed in vindi. Even PvE option i tried DPS one is very passive and boring to play, with 1 dodge u also can't do mechanics.

[Angesombre.4630]

Since the sigil nerf yes it is very stiff. I liked the revenant from day one but I like it less and less because of the nerfs that took away all the flavor of it.

The vindi is not so nice to play which I find a pity, with a dodge it's heavy and predictable and in PvE it's jumping on the trash mob the bosses it's more annoying there are traits for me that are useless, it has already undergone nerfs and the skill 3 of the swordfish is still bug since the beta.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Angesombre.4630

[SoulGuardian.6203]

1. The legends should have been done separately.... or fused two as one.

I don't understand why the decision to put both together in one slot in F1 then use F3 to change again.

It makes the other legend in F1 kinda redundant.

I would prefer atleast that we'd get 3 legend slots together in F1 and change accordingly; or make 2 separate legends.

Stamina refill on F2.

It's kinda confusing as it is now.

A lot of skills to go through. No Elementalists nor engineers caused me this much confusion. 

 

2. Not sure how I feel about the dodge.

It is powerful... but it's taking some to get used to it.

Same reason I stopped using Mirage. 

 

3. Another GS, another block and counter, another spin attack.

Whatever happened to uniqueness and different?

I know, I know... Ranger block, Reapers Spin, etc... they do look cool. 

They do.

I really was expecting a ranged weapon though.

We only have core hammer and Renegade bow.

 

 

4. The dodge skill should be GS skill 5. 

Give us normal dodge with just some spice.

All other skills should have similar nature to the dodge that should be on GS.

 

5. Saint Vicky Elite skill animation is kinda silly.

( With all due respect and consideration. )

I know it's hard to come up with new ideas.

But...

Especially when you break the Urn.

It should go like this:

First click: The Urn releases vickys soul. It performs its attacks.

Second click: Vicky soul enters the characters body. The urn simply disappears.

If you wanna keep the urn breakage animation, then do it when it releases vicky or by it causing an explosion as a last attack.

Character willingly breaking the urn just doesn't seem right.

---

Overall it is a really cool ES.

This is just my ignorant oppinion though.

Take no notice of it.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by SoulGuardian.6203

[Angesombre.4630]

In the term alliance I would like to see more interaction between the two. The thing that is hard in this gameplay is already one dodge and it's 100% telegraphed. I also like and dislike the fact that you can choose one side of the alliance because for heal or dps it's useful but it breaks the mechanics of mobility I think. I'm only talking about the alliance.

The other problem of the dodge is that it does not protect from all we can be moved while we are in the air by the f1 of the DH for example or I already took of the blindness by lion of the desert on a zone while I was in the air. 

There are some features of the alliance that I don't find very useful. The shield that we can put is clearly inferior to the one of the spectre or the scourge. And you can't put offensive buffs on allies. I would have liked that via traits we could modify certain elements like better buffs with the blue part which does no damage, or to be able to choose to share those of the red side.

And there is not enough stun on this specialization.

The visual effect of the 2 with the swordfish is quite misleading, the 3 is buggy on the distance and the 5 can do some damage, as well as very little.

These are just ideas and opinions, I'm also aware that some things are a bit contradictory.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Angesombre.4630

[Howluffu.7259]

just quit the spec. They dont going to rework this garbo

[SoulGuardian.6203]

On 6/17/2022 at 6:42 PM, Howluffu.7259 said:

just quit the spec. They dont going to rework this garbo

I just reverted my main Rev back to core.

I must say that I'm disappointed in its progress, I imagined it to be the ultimate killing machine... and it is the worse ES out of the three.

I'm sorry to say that it continues to confuse the heck out of me and is not very effective; to put it in the nicest way possible.

 

Two heals ain't worth one.

 

Why give an endurance refiller instead of just giving two dodges on the first place? 

It makes it redundant. 

 

The only other ES I don't use is Firebrand, but that's because I have an issue with not being able to use weapons while in that book mode pages geeba java thingie.

I don't use celestial avatar on my Druid fir the same reason... apart from warriors, which I have none.

 

Other than that, Vindicator needs a lot of tweaks.

I just don't know what to make of it.

It really bothers me that most of its Utility Skills are useless, and that F1 F2 F3 layout?

 

Just separate the legends. 

Add another legend slot.

Give it two dodges.

Improve its USs.

... and we're good.

Edited June 21, 2022 by SoulGuardian.6203

[Angesombre.4630]

With the red skill to dash forward and the blue to retreat it looks very similar to Shiro.

[Giovanni.7051]

As someone who was looking forward to playing Vindicator from it's original concept of alternating legends with skill use I can say that I feel it had gone well off the tracks from that to a AoE dps role that couldn't; to a Heal Support role that almost can. (OK I'm no comedian that's the best I got off the cuff) I still wish there was a way to hit a F key to go back to the original concept, but that ship has long sailed. I'm not even sure what they want to do with this elite spec now. It's got to be a nightmare to balance with the split legends in competitive play, so my sympathies there. But I'm honestly not sure what the creators want this spec to be at this point. It's really up to them because they keep changing it. 

 

As for poor Herald? Clearly it's still paying penance for being strong for this long in large group play.

 

Centaur stance & Salvation are intriguing, but I personally have no interest in playing a Rev healer. That's not why I picked up this class to begin with so I have nothing constructive to say about that. 

[LoreChief.8391]

I want to propose a functional change to Vindicator's greatsword weaponskill;  "Imperial Guard"

 

Imperial Guard: Block incoming attacks for a prolonged duration, strengthening your next attack to deal increased damage based on the attacks blocked.

 

* Buff lasts for 8 seconds instead of 4

* Stacks 5 times, increases damage of the next attack by 20% per stack (max 100% increased damage)

 

I got the idea after probably the 1000th time of following up on Imperial Guard with Eternity's Requiem/Tenacious Ruin.  True Strike itself is far too slow and janky and doesnt feel like a very good followup.  But since it feels like a "charge up" using IG, it inspires me that it would be a lot more rule-of-cool to let that buff be used for any one skill after.

[Buran.3796]

 Aside from the atrocious two elites (easily amongst the worst in the whole game) and the recycled gs animations which i depise (not new, Rev is full of "borrowed" ones, including cloning himself from Chilling Isolation to Burst of Strength, etc...) another thing that I hate is how swapping from orange to blue doesn't reset the energy: that alone essentailly encourages the player to never change the stance.

   I don't but the "but they aren't two legends, that's why the energy cost of the skills are low": that could been true at the betas or the release, but we are now barely 4 months into EoD and we ALREADY got nerfs in the cooldowns of the skillset and ENERGY COSTS increases. This will end as Shiro, with energy cost which you can't spent even with the bar maxed, but worse beacuse the x2 number of skills... 

[Acheron.1580]

Before anything else the dodge mechanic really needs to be addressed. It's really wonky to remove a core part of your survival and replace it with a core part of dps, it feels really bad to begin with. Also as a "jump" it should at least consider you being at the height of a normal jump during the animation, because terrain gets really wonky with it. Also why is it slower than a standard dodge roll? Why doesn't Energy Meld restore all of it so we can at least have a reactive oh no button? Everything about it just feels really clunky and like an afterthought.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

On 7/8/2022 at 9:58 AM, Acheron.1580 said:

Before anything else the dodge mechanic really needs to be addressed. It's really wonky to remove a core part of your survival and replace it with a core part of dps, it feels really bad to begin with. Also as a "jump" it should at least consider you being at the height of a normal jump during the animation, because terrain gets really wonky with it. Also why is it slower than a standard dodge roll? Why doesn't Energy Meld restore all of it so we can at least have a reactive oh no button? Everything about it just feels really clunky and like an afterthought.

Personally think this is a “l2p the spec” problem. I’ve used Vindicator in all PvE content CM Fracs/CM Raids/CM Strikes and soloing all parts of open world and have had no issues with survivability after learning how The spec plays. It just takes a different mindset. I see people complain about the dodge, but not really spend the time to learn how to actually play the spec and compensate for the lack of regular dodges. 
 

Vindicator has tons of active defenses available when playing Shiro/Alliance and I rarely feel like I don’t have an evade or block on hand if I need it. This isn’t to say it doesn’t have *slight* issues with not having two dodges; yes it’s a bit glassier because of this if you’re not good at managing energy/thinking ahead. It just takes more forethought and a better understanding of what your non-dodge buttons do. Battle dance/Riposting Shadows/Imperial Guard/Unrelenting Assault are all awesome ways to avoid damage, especially Imperial Guard. In addition you also have two cheap movement skills that can be used to reposition; drop target -> dash to where you need to go to avoid the attack -> profit. Vindicator feels more mobile and potentially more defensive to me than either Herald or Renegade (and I’ve played both extensively for years), the only benefit of the other two is that the raw sustain is easier since it’s less focused on avoiding damage outright and more focused on getting health back through defensive or offensive skills. This is way easier for a new/not as skilled player to pop Infuse Light vs. navigating three legends worth of skills, CDs and energy requirements. I don’t blame people for thinking the spec is hard; it’s hardest of the Rev builds to be good at for sure, but this doesn’t make the mechanics bad. Personally I find it Incredibly rewarding mechanically, the problem is the lack of pay off with damage. 
 

The only thing the spec is truly lacking is raw damage to compensate for its slightly glassier/almost entirely DPS focused gameplay and it needs a little more CC (lower cost Jade Winds, please, maybe longer daze). Other than that it’s fine and the gameplay issues are just “I don’t jive with how this spec plays” issues. It’s perfectly fine to have specs in the game that don’t fit your play style; I personally don’t like how any of the elite specs for thief or guardian play, so I do not play those classes, for example. Trouble with a mechanic =/= the mechanic or the spec is bad. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Angesombre.4630]

The problem with the specialization is that it was designed like the herald with a skill reversal that is no longer present. 
It should be more mobile for the alliance legend to compensate for the lack of dodge if they want to keep it the same.
She lacks DPS and some traits are not good, too selfish on the buffs she gives and for the few buffs, a bit too common, no good CC, red energy consumption and combo with skills.
People wanted the swordfish but didn't expect the legend to end up like this, knowing that it was made like this also because of the cantha theme.
It feels like it wasn't designed like the other legends and by the same people or at least the impression.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Angesombre.4630

[Zaret.1450]

Vindi needs a better evade, i mean that an option to land beforehand or maybe 2 evades on wvw would be good, gs3 is pretty confusing, or better said its awfull to use, it makes a mini jump and if theres no enemy in range it doesnt move more, the 900 range is almost allwais efectively 400, making it do the 900 dash allwais, or making it pull enemies at the end of the attack, the full range would give movility and the pull some needed cc for vindi, i still think archi shouldn be a hibrid, some torment and burn on a couple skills is too lousy, instead of burn making it a fire field or a finisher would work better in my opinion, and spear could have a different effect, maybe 10% more dmg on enemyes under 25% health or something

vicky could use some stab or even better, get rid of alac on renegade and give it to vicky, id make more sense right now i think.

[Zaret.1450]

On 7/17/2022 at 7:40 AM, Angesombre.4630 said:

The problem with the specialization is that it was designed like the herald with a skill reversal that is no longer present. 
It should be more mobile for the alliance legend to compensate for the lack of dodge if they want to keep it the same.
She lacks DPS and some traits are not good, too selfish on the buffs she gives and for the few buffs, a bit too common, no good CC, red energy consumption and combo with skills.
People wanted the swordfish but didn't expect the legend to end up like this, knowing that it was made like this also because of the cantha theme.
It feels like it wasn't designed like the other legends and by the same people or at least the impression.

in my opinion? they listened to the gs we were asking and the power dps part but they had to introduce vicktor too, probably due to fanservice, although id like to think they wanted a legend to pair with ventary and so made a double legend( even when we have herald but meh).

The problem is, herald was a legend.... id say half baked, and lousy, renegade was good, but it made the mistake to want to do everything at the same time too, this time it got overpowered and was condi so it wasnt bad, as for vindi... its still in beta, or at least it feels like a beta elite, good ideas but needs much polishing, the weapon only works on archie, almost no cc, even if paired with shiro amd ventary, wich obviously are the coupled legends, dodge... i kind of like but you loose much time and you have too little control over it.

 

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

Lmao, remind me again why I am using the alliance legend stance? I know the healing was over the top, but holy hell dude. The gutting Anet is doing is brutal.

[Howluffu.7259]

I just want to be able to double normal dodge with this spec. If not, would be interestingly good to have the greatsword weapon available to core rev.

[SWLDguitar.5746]

3 hours ago, Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267 said:

Lmao, remind me again why I am using the alliance legend stance? I know the healing was over the top, but holy hell dude. The gutting Anet is doing is brutal.

AGREED!  

There's bigger problems for sure yet they are targeting that?

Still continuing to not play as Anet can't seem to get EoD spec right.  Would like to see Guardians fall below Ele.

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

2 hours ago, SWLDguitar.5746 said:

AGREED!  

There's bigger problems for sure yet they are targeting that?

Still continuing to not play as Anet can't seem to get EoD spec right.  Would like to see Guardians fall below Ele.

It just stupid at this point. I mean, obviously the balance team is utter incompetent, but this is another level.

 

Quote

The vindicator's defensive tools in PvP have continued to overperform.

Yeah no kitten dude. You buffed the Ventari traits last patch ago! And you guys were already having problems with Vindicator having high level of sustainability hence why you nerfed the vindicator's sustain. And you're telling me you guys don't have the foresight that changing the ventari line the way it is now WOULDN'T Bring it back to being overpowered? So overpowered you absoultely destroyed one of the only few skills worth a kitten for vindictor? 30 second cooldown? 10 energy cost? What?

What guys even doing dude? This is absolutely egregious.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267

[Nightbringer.9845]

Pls buff. Is SOOO weak compared to other power dps classes in endgame content

[Jees.5478]

Sadly he is trash yeah. But becareful someone will come and say he ist not weak, with no real arguments :). If you are a Vindi main like me and want to raid with him, than good look finding a group. Vindi support is trash, vindi power dps is trash and condi vindi is trash to.  Btw. I play him at his max damage whise.

No random group wants him in a group and friends dont want him to. I can't belive it but i could not play cms with him today because my casual guild sayed only if u don't play vinidi. So I played my specter. 

So Arenanet please buff his pds. Just buff his Greatsword moves a lot. I don't know how his support build can be fixed now. The support Version needs a rework.

[Nightbringer.9845]

Literally came to forums just to complain about this lol. Vindicator is such a cool class but it literally offers absolutely nothing utility wise for group endgame content while giving measly dps that is trash. I love revenant but overall the class is just so weak compared to others.... ANET PLEASE BUFFFFFFFFFF

[Angesombre.4630]

11 hours ago, NightBringer.9845 said:

Literally came to forums just to complain about this lol. Vindicator is such a cool class but it literally offers absolutely nothing utility wise for group endgame content while giving measly dps that is trash. I love revenant but overall the class is just so weak compared to others.... ANET PLEASE BUFFFFFFFFFF

It was stronger before but with 3 years of successive nerfs and quite random on skills, we reduce the revenant.

[Acheron.1580]

This class has a serious identity crisis, and what feels like a bunch of placeholders that simply didn't get addressed before release. Ironically cannon, the luxon and kurzick sides of the spec really don't play well together for several reasons; firstly because it's a gearing nightmare unless you want to do full celestial, at which point you'll be average at all of it. Even if you wanted to swap between the 2 to try to do it all, you get no energy back, so it's extremely limited. On top of that, wanting to share a dodge mechanic you only get 1 charge of which energy meld I guess was almost sort of supposed to address, but again with it costing energy and you not regaining any, ehhhhhhh,

 

Balance in Discord is such an underwhelming and out of place trait, it really feels like they didn't know what else to put there. Angsiyan's Trust is just worse than Song of Arboreum and has a tooltip that is confusing. Leviathan Strength and Forerunner of Death are basically variations on a theme, with one just being objectively worse (and yes, obviously you are taking both as a dps anyways, I just find it a little uninspired). I don't really see a place for Vassal's of the Empire, it's supposed to be this middle ground but is just worse than either one of the other options.  Spear of Archemorus, the iconic relic of the hero, does the same damage at cost as Nomad's charge, provides no buff, hits a single target and takes a hell of a long time to fire off, with 4 times the cooldown. I guess because it's (super) ranged? I really don't get it.

 

The traits should be split to top (Archemorus), bottom (Zu Heltzer), and then heavily lean into the idea of them both in the middle, kind of like Amnesty of Shing Jea. Throw some Precision > Concentration, Healing power > Ferocity in there. Split the 2 Heroes, remove F3, let energy regain on swap. Hopefully address all of the weird trait choices (as mentioned above). Currently the traits are separated into how do you want to get endurance back, and how do you want to change your dodge, which is fine for the top and bottom row, but that whole middle row trying to be unique and middle of the road just doesn't work for it. I'd make that middle trait line all about what happens when you bounce between the 2 Heroes. Maybe PBAoE damage/healing for each legendary ability used while in the respective specs, maybe something to help the disconnect between trying to share a dodge mechanic between the two (a buff to energy meld?).

 

I really want to like the idea of this class, but it doesn't address even core designs of the Revenant, being energy manipulations / considerations, and legend swapping. The dodge mechanic has grown on me a bit, but it feels like another left over idea thrown into the pot.