Vindicator Feedback Thread

[Caid.4932]

I just thought i'd put out some thoughts on Support Vindicator. I didn't try it much at all in the beta but just looking at it and seeing a few problems primarily around synergy and having a well rounded toolkit.

Red Alliance skills aren't hugely important - a nice bonus that gives some mobility and self stability. They're nice to have but wont make or break the spec.

Blue Alliance are the more important ones and how they interact with ventari is where im not seeing that much to work with really. More and stronger condi cleanse, especially with resistance is a good start. Not especially a weakness of ventari as it stands but ok. And more healing, and a bit of barrier depending on trait choice - meh, healing output always felt extremely strong, didn't particularly need it.

Blue aoe stun break is quite nice, adds some protection to the kit and along with the middle dodge trait can be a good feature of the kit - comes at the cost of healing and barrier but at least the healing portion of the dodge wont be missed, theres already piles of healing power buffs in salvation.

Good vigor access is another nice feature but overall, its just not enough really. Protection, vigor and some might is a fairly weak collection of buffs. It probably does a hell of a lot more healing than other supports but its just overhealing in too many situations for it to be that valuable. Its pretty lacking in damage mitigation frankly, things like aegis, resolution, having to chose between barrier and protection. Things like Jalis giving a flat damage reduction.

So i'm thinking at this point that maybe its a better replacement for centaur and salvation, it does the same thing, offers the same strengths and weaknesses and if i go into Jalis i can get some group stability and maybe stack damage reduction. You wind up with different problems there where i cant see the vindicators toolkit having enough healing to do that job solo. I didn't play it, or attempt it really so maybe im wrong? Your losing projectile hate and you probably will want to go into salvation for the stat bonuses anyway. Maybe ignore salvation for damage and be a dps with good support / off healing?

Maybe some support related trait that lets you share boons when using one of the alliance elite skills. You can add some stability, quickness and fury to the kit, probably top out might. Getting stability back without needing to go into Jalis feels like it should be worked on for the desirability of Alliance. Maybe tieing some of the quickness duration into a dps trait so the support spec doesn't have as much or as easy access could limit its strength a bit.

I'd like to see more alternatives to Guardians stand your ground brought into the game and vindicator and the blue stun break seems like one of the more obvious and fitting places to start.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Caid.4932

[Angesombre.4630]

Maybe we could give victor buffs by traits for a good support and more offensive things always by traits in the DPS version, it allows to make a choice without making the spec particularly strong in the 2 fields at the same time. 

This would allow to have a good support and heal in complement of ventari and which would be more effective than renegat which has already good buffs but a very average heal and that heralt which itself is rather weak in PvE.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Angesombre.4630

[Chaos.7614]

Overall, much better than beta 2 when we were first able to play the vindicator. My thoughts are PvE-oriented (endgame content) just before I give my 2 cents.

 

Greatsword: People have already commented on the visuals, which is minor IMO. It'd be nice to patch them up if possible but a lower priority. Change GS2 to have a quicker cast time to get into a better rotation please. Please also fix the hitbox for GS1/GS2 and the range for GS3, which was mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

New dodge: Actually not bad now. However, I think tying it to a damage increase through a trait is a poor decision. Will expand on it below.

 

Spec mechanic: Thanks for separating energy meld from alliance tactics. I think these can be improved further by having no cast time and by having alliance tactics TEMPORARILY swap the utility skills while on the alliance legend. The grandmaster traits should determine which side of alliance is the default and alliance tactics should allow for a temporary swap to the other side to use their skills, and it'd swap back to the default after a certain time (5 seconds or so?). Can adjust numbers on cast time/energy accordingly to make this mechanic smoother, since this would allow players to play the way they want to while also allowing use of the other legend when needed.

 

Utilities: I'd really like to have an upkeep on Archemorus to help with energy management or integrate into the rotation since every other legend has one. The Archemorus elite should have an upkeep and deal damage proportionate to the time it's been activated (release upkeep to cast, either manually or on legend swap). Remove the torment from Archemorus elite and increase the base damage/scaling as needed with this upkeep change too. No comment on the Viktor side of things since I see this spec as more a pDPS, and that's how I plan on playing it since Renegade and Herald are both supportive.

 

Traits: Masters are too weak or trying to fix a problem introduced by the reduction of two dodges to one. Grandmasters should be re-tuned a bit. Overall, power DPS should be taking 1-1-1, support players should be taking 3-3-3, and those who are going for utility in some form will be taking the 2nd trait in any of the lines.

 

Tenacious Ruin: No change.

Leviathan Strength: Moved this to Balance in Discord. Change it to "grant +7% damage while under the effects of vigor".

Amnesty of Shing Jea: No change

Redemptor's Sermon: Never used this since it's Kurzick and not my cup of tea, but no change I suppose. Does seem weak.

 

Balance in Discord: Too weak, change to "deal 10% increased damage while your endurance is full AND take 10% reduced damage while your endurance is not full".

Reaver's Curse: Change to "gain 5 endurance for each target hit by your auto attacks".

Angisyan's Trust: Change to the old Song of Arboreum ("Grant vigor to yourself and nearby allies after dodging. Vigor has an increased effect on you.").

Song of Arboreum: Change to "improve healing power by 10% while under the effects of vigor". Only changed this because the old Song of Arboreum is more of a utility trait.

 

Empire Divided: Move the stat bonus to the major grandmasters. Rename it to "Empire United" and give it "Double the stat bonuses given by the major grandmaster trait for 10 seconds if you use both a Luxon and Kurzick skill within 5 seconds".

Forerunner of Death: Same dodge mechanic. Changes default loadout to Luxon skills. Add +200 power.

Vassals of the Empire: Same dodge mechanic. Default loadout is Luxon. Add +100 power/+100 healing power.

Saint of zu Heltzer: Same dodge mechanic. Changes default loadout to Kurzick skills. Add +200 healing power.

 

Overall, these changes should improve the QoL for vindicators and encourage specializing into one of the two Alliance skill loadouts for primary use but also swapping for the stat bonus increase and depending on the situation. Numbers can change of course.

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Chaos.7614

[Zenith.7301]

Repeating that current Vindicator animations are not remotely acceptable. We expect from a new expansion for some effort to be put into producing new animations and visual effects for the specs. Vindicator seems like a class in alpha stage design from a VFX perspective.

We expect some interaction between the Vindicator skills and greatsword legendaries. Currently, there are none either.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Zenith.7301

[SWLDguitar.5746]

Just going to throw this out there...

 

Can we get a revamp to Hammer?  I feel like Vindicator and Hammer should pair well together, but the dps from Hammer is just awful. At this point in the game, ANet should be able to balance this weapon. 

 

At the very least animation cast times/speed. I don't want to suggest what needs to be changed as my opinions likely don't jive with everyone. 

[Angesombre.4630]

What would be already appreciable on the hammer it is that it puts back as before the skill 2 that there is not more this small space between the zone and the player, who makes that in more of a slow weapon, it is less useful especially that it is the only weapon really distance of the revenant without specialization elite.

But I think that it will remain a dream...

Edited December 14, 2021 by Angesombre.4630

[BOEPHI.8427]

4 hours ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

What would be already appreciable on the hammer it is that it puts back as before the skill 2 that there is not more this small space between the zone and the player, who makes that in more of a slow weapon, it is less useful especially that it is the only weapon really distance of the revenant without specialization elite.

But I think that it will remain a dream...

I can only second this.

Remove the Ground-Target from Hammer 2 and return it to its old state. The reworked version of Hammer 2 is an utter disaster and disgrace feeling- and usage-wise.

If they listen to us even in the slightest - i really hope they will change this. Before or with EoD is irrelevant for me - but the faster the better.

Rework Hammer 4 as well if we're already at it. The idea is nice, but the ability in itself doesn't fullfill a role for the weapon - sadly.

Edited December 14, 2021 by BOEPHI.8427

[Jthug.9506]

23 hours ago, BOEPHI.8427 said:

I can only second this.

Remove the Ground-Target from Hammer 2 and return it to its old state. The reworked version of Hammer 2 is an utter disaster and disgrace feeling- and usage-wise.

If they listen to us even in the slightest - i really hope they will change this. Before or with EoD is irrelevant for me - but the faster the better.

Rework Hammer 4 as well if we're already at it. The idea is nice, but the ability in itself doesn't fullfill a role for the weapon - sadly.

I hate the ground target on hammer 2. As far as I’m concerned it should be homing, just delete it and start over, it’s a button I rarely press and often regret it when I do.
 

Why not give hammer 4 the gs4 treatment, a flip over block that builds up power based on blocks?

[Alik.9651]

On 12/7/2021 at 9:44 PM, Shao.7236 said:

Don't scrap the idea of skill flipping. The current design is really boring and doesn't feel like anything new.

 

Make skillflips be on demand after using a skill by pressing it again, under 3 seconds at most. If not pressed, the last skill used should remain and be used again.

 

Overhaul F3 and F4 to set respectively Archemorus and Saint Viktor to their entire utilities with both under a 10 seconds cooldown, make them grant offensive and defensive boons on use as well so that they're not completely pointless when dedicated to one of the Luxons.

 

Give the best of both worlds to your players so that we can have camping and hybrid as a choice, making the elite interesting and not just another set of utility to mash on.

totally agree skill flipping is the theme.

but by making the skill flip by pressing it again might accidentally triggered as many(?) player will spam the keys until they identify the skill is unleashed. Or might feel bothered for hybrid player (or player enjoy the theme) that every skill used has to press twice.

 

So my suggestion is:

Legendary Alliance Stance will flip by default.

and implement a F3, and F4 skill

 

F3 - Archemorus CD 15s

Grant a status that flip and lock your Legendary Alliance Stance to Archemorus for 16s (1s windows to give player would like to have semi-permanent lock), your Legendary Alliance Stance will use more energy, and have longer cool down.

Extend offense boon on allies for 2s + 0.5s per enemy affected

Extent damaging condition on enemies for 2s + 0.5s per allies affected

Number of Targets: 5
Number of Allied Targets: 5
Radius: 240
Range: 600

--> Break Archemorus (3s windows after F3 used)

Extend offense boon on you for 3s

Extent damaging condition on your target for 3s

Range: 600

 

F4 - Saint Viktor CD 15s

Grant a status that flip and lock your Legendary Alliance Stance to Saint Viktor for 16s, your Legendary Alliance Stance will use more energy, and have longer cool down.

Extend defense boon on allies for 2s + 0.5s per enemy affected

Extent non-damaging condition on enemies for 2s + 0.5s per allies affected

Number of Targets: 5
Number of Allied Targets: 5
Radius: 240
Range: 600

--> Break Saint Viktor (3s windows after F4 used)

Extend defense boon on you for 3s

Extent non-damaging condition on your target for 3s

Range: 600

 

 

And about dodge, now all 3 dodge skill are using 100 endurance, why not just cut the affect to half, and give us back 2 dodge?

[Howluffu.7259]

Please no autoflipping bs, please!!!! Now is at least playable.

Better numbers in GS, more CC in legends/gs and 1 more dodge and we good.

[Axl.8924]

Anyone here tried giving barriers when beta was up on highest difficulty see how it did in saving lives? I wanted to see comparing it to scourge in terms of viability in that way. I mean with vindi jumping.

On lowest difficulty it seemed to do good 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Axl.8924

[pyrgus.6853]

for the urn of Saint Viktor, what would make it super interesting is to give random buffs according to the % of life of the revenant during the 1st phase, then in the second phase when you deposit it, have exactly the same effect as in guild wars 1: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Urn_of_Saint_Viktor_(skill)  
 

[Glowingseed.1596]

I was playing around with a heal vindicator build, and I genuinely believe it has potential; however, it might be more viable if Nomad's Advance was upped to 5 per target and was also shareable with 5 targets. That, or the ability to share other dps-increasing boons with allies with the red champion (Archemodus?).Regardless though, that's it. That's all I'd want to add. I am very satisfied with vindicator where it is, I just believe that the ability to buff allies would make it actually viable to run with. Thanks! (I had this feedback earlier, I just forgot to send it until just now >,<)

[Aeolus.3615]

On 1/6/2022 at 4:59 AM, Glowingseed.1596 said:

I was playing around with a heal vindicator build, and I genuinely believe it has potential; however, it might be more viable if Nomad's Advance was upped to 5 per target and was also shareable with 5 targets. That, or the ability to share other dps-increasing boons with allies with the red champion (Archemodus?).Regardless though, that's it. That's all I'd want to add. I am very satisfied with vindicator where it is, I just believe that the ability to buff allies would make it actually viable to run with. Thanks! (I had this feedback earlier, I just forgot to send it until just now >,<)

wich stats u used for decent support? potato stats o.O?

Edited January 11, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[lunaeclipse.6843]

Rework the Urn of Saint Viktor.

 

As is stands even after the second beta, I still can't find a good use for it. The health threshold mechanic doesn't work well in my opinion.

 

Instead, I'd suggest following the concept used for the rework of Spectre's Shadow Shroud. The idea of the Urn is an extreme defensive stance for your allies at the cost of yourself. So, make it so that while channelling the Urn, you still cant be healed and still heal allies, but you gain a stack of a buff every second instead of deteriorating your health. Every Stack threshold pulses additional boons to allies every second. Dropping the Urn Gives additional boons based on Stack thresholds and consumes all stacks.

 

1) Protection (1s)

3) Stability (1stack) (1s)

5) Resistance (1s)

 

Dropping the Urn:

 

1) Protection (3s)

3) Stability (4 stacks) (5s)

5) Resistance (5s)

 

This type of mechanic will instead reward for upkeeping the Urn and utilizing its defensive aspect instead of spamming it as a clutch heal at low health (which doesn't really work as the 1s channel will get you killed before you get the effect when you're that low on health). It also doesn't hurt to give more classes access to AoE stability instead of guardian dominating stability access as it has since release.

[Loules.8601]

On 12/13/2021 at 7:31 PM, Zenith.7301 said:

Repeating that current Vindicator animations are not remotely acceptable. We expect from a new expansion for some effort to be put into producing new animations and visual effects for the specs. Vindicator seems like a class in alpha stage design from a VFX perspective.

We expect some interaction between the Vindicator skills and greatsword legendaries. Currently, there are none either.

 

So... just warrior GS skills and animations in the end? 
I'm not a whiner, but when I saw the implementation of GS on Revenant in the first beta, I was instantly disappointed, and completely stopped following the future addon. I hoped that this was just a placeholder - and everything would change by the latest beta / release. I expected in vain, apparently - maybe GS is still waiting for a rework, including a visual one ...
... but at the moment this is not the level of quality of the game that I would like to invest money and time in - if we talking about feedback. 

[Skyroar.2974]

2 hours ago, Loules.8601 said:

 

So... just warrior GS skills and animations in the end? 
I'm not a whiner, but when I saw the implementation of GS on Revenant in the first beta, I was instantly disappointed, and completely stopped following the future addon. I hoped that this was just a placeholder - and everything would change by the latest beta / release. I expected in vain, apparently - maybe GS is still waiting for a rework, including a visual one ...
... but at the moment this is not the level of quality of the game that I would like to invest money and time in - if we talking about feedback. 

I agree. It only has a single interesting/creative skill: #5. Everything else is a generic copy-paste of already existing skills, with generic animations (the AA animation is used twice outside of AA, how lame is that?). Even the effects feel undercooked.

[Jthug.9506]

I would really love to see something that makes use of legendary skins like citadel bombardment did for ren, perhaps gs5 can have a little weapon attack at each circle or something? Also I am feeling more and more boxed in because there's no crit chance boost in vindicator, which makes it hard to avoid using rolling mists, and therefore limits build options pretty badly.

[medivh.4725]

The urn that that sticks right in yer face does it for me. Decision -  No Vindicator. 
Maybe Anet can take this weak link and turn it into something else? For example, what does Vindicator do that everyone else couldn't? 

Make it special so there is a point of playing Vindicator..

[Catchyfx.5768]

8 hours ago, medivh.4725 said:

The urn that that sticks right in yer face does it for me. Decision -  No Vindicator. 
Maybe Anet can take this weak link and turn it into something else? For example, what does Vindicator do that everyone else couldn't? 

Make it special so there is a point of playing Vindicator..

 If you wanna dodge 2x in row it cost you energy. Thats pretty unique 😂

[medivh.4725]

Delete Urn idea

Urn ugly. Delete urn or redesign. Maybe press skill to throw urn. Lol
I am still not finding appeal to the Vindicator.

Vindicator new elite skill

If Rev is mist guy, can he have sword play with mist animation??
How about Vindicator transfer himself in and exit out of mist portals. Similar to short arrows Renegade. Only not just arrows passing through but Vindicator toon as well. 

It will be unblockable since enemy cannot anticipate where Vindicator is reappearing and exiting.
This should be the new elite skill with longest recharge time and biggest DPS. It will have awesome visual effects. The cool animation will be Vindicator charging into mist with Greatsword, entering and exiting multiple mist portals dealing multiple damage and inflicting stacks of confusions along the way. 

💯Cool! Please replace eyesore urn with mist teleportation multi-strikes!

Edited February 18, 2022 by medivh.4725

[zallesz.1650]

I am also hoping that the GS2 animation gets an upgrade. It's not just the same swing as a regular auto attack, but literally a "non-elite", oldschool axe 5, or mace 2 animations looks better than the few red lines we get on the ground. Please make it look cooler!

[Zaret.1450]

Ok i have been triing vindi since expan came out and a couple things need to be mentioned.

1 it needs more cc, on power rev you have almost no cc at all out of jade winds, and noone wants to use jade winds because it is a 50 energy loss, aliance has a decent cc but that and the tiny little almost non existent freeze on gs are not enought, please make gs3 pull or arche spear push or something like that, it is an urgent need. and no staff doesnt count, that thing isnt even able to do anything out of cc and the 3 invulnerable.

2 we have no combo fields, please please please make scabenger burst( i think thats the name) create a fire field instead of burning(wich is useless) at least that, like, please.

3 it feels like it lacks dmg, im not sure about other elites but vindi at least felt like it lacked dmg against mobs, like, im going full berserk and those things should explode, maybe every class feels the same so then nevermind but even so... please get rid of torment on archemorus spear and increase its power dmg, like realy why give 2 condis to a elite that is suposed to be made to fill the power dps place?.

Thats what i saw after playing vindi cor a couple hours, yeah i knoe it just launched but i think its good to tell where to start loking right?

[Angesombre.4630]

with all the returns in the specialization no change even the 3 to the swordfish still function as in the beta .... t in addition to the big nerf as much to destroy the whole class at this point ...

[Scoobaniec.9561]

40 pages of wasted people time trying to help devs and improve the class/detect bug tobe fixed etc.

This is why i dont bother with feedback/suggestions. It went exactly as expected