Why allow duo queue in ranked?

[TheDarkness.6947]

Why not just get rid of duo queue in ranked?  What purpose does it serve?

In a perfect world, where we can actually have nice things because people respect the ToS and don’t exploit the privilege, then sure.  On the surface it sounds like it lets you experience playing conquest with one friend.

As far as I can tell though, duo queue is the mechanic that enables people do match manipulation and win trading. So why not just make it solo queue only and eliminate the ability to do that? There are already other modes where you can queue for sPvP with a friend (unranked, AT, etc).

 

I’m pretty new to PvP.  I don’t win trade and don’t intend to, so maybe I misunderstand how it works.  Seems to me like this one simple change would take a dev 5 minutes and greatly reduce players’ ability to manipulate ranked PvP matches. Am I wrong?  

 

Have to be honest, as someone fairly new to PvP, my perception right now is that match manipulation is pretty much the ONLY reason people duo queue.

[Genesis.5169]

Well why can't we make a full 5 man team in a game mode thats 5 on 5? I find thats the real question as everyone else allows this but anet. Perhaps your asking the wrong question, perhaps you need to take up some personal responsibility instead of blaming a duo. Perhaps you should advocate for our competitive game mode to have some kinda foundation like every other pvp game mode in every other game.

You say your new to pvp are you new to team based pvp in general? Ever played overwatch? Or Dota? Or any shooter? Or like moba or what ever you can play? Rocket league? Quake? Halo? ANYTHING!? that has ranked team modes? Like are you aware that the aspect removing teams in a team based game mode is the epitome or stupid? Since your a new player lemme give you advice,  since you disqualified everything you said with saying your pretty new and asking if your wrong ill answer.

Yes your wrong, and you should abstain from any opinions about pvp if your gonna disqualify your own statement with OH IM NEW.

Removing teams was and still is the greatest failure of anet not only did they kill community building they destroyed the game mode and subsequently destroyed ATs as nobody gonna join AT on w/o the ability to practice in real high ranked games it does not matter the rewards that is not the psychology of a pvp'er no one wants to get completely washed for 20 or even 200 gold thats why NO ONE DOES ATs. Bring back teams and ATs will grow.

 

Side note a real good way to fix alot of post like these is the increase the pvp rank to play ranked to 80 so then players have the experience of beating bad duos.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[nativity.3057]

28 minutes ago, TheDarkness.6947 said:

I’m pretty new to PvP.  

 

Yeah we've already had this discussion, and the community voted in favor of duo queue. 

[TheDarkness.6947]

11 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

Well why can't we make a full 5 man team in a game mode thats 5 on 5? I find thats the real question as everyone else allows this but anet. Perhaps your asking the wrong question, perhaps you need to take up some personal responsibility instead of blaming a duo. Perhaps you should advocate for our competitive game mode to have some kinda foundation like every other pvp game mode in every other game.

You say your new to pvp are you new to team based pvp in general? Ever played overwatch? Or Dota? Or any shooter? Or like moba or what ever you can play? Rocket league? Quake? Halo? ANYTHING!? that has ranked team modes? Like are you aware that the aspect removing teams in a team based game mode is the epitome or stupid? Since your a new player lemme give you advice,  since you disqualified everything you said with saying your pretty new and asking if your wrong ill answer.

Yes your wrong, and you should abstain from any opinions about pvp if your gonna disqualify your own statement with OH IM NEW.

Removing teams was and still is the greatest failure of anet not only did they kill community building they destroyed the game mode and subsequently destroyed ATs as nobody gonna join AT on w/o the ability to practice in real high ranked games it does not matter the rewards that is not the psychology of a pvp'er no one wants to get completely washed for 20 or even 200 gold thats why NO ONE DOES ATs. Bring back teams and ATs will grow.

 

Side note a real good way to fix alot of post like these is the increase the pvp rank to play ranked to 80 so then players have the experience of beating bad duos.

I said that I’m new to sPvP.  I didn’t say that I’m stupid.  Do you think those two things are somehow equivalent?

Aside from you trying to discount my powers of observation, I do agree with you that either solo queue only or requiring full teams would both greatly reduce the ability to manipulate match making.  There are compelling arguments posted on this forum that requiring full team queue in ranked would decimate the PvP population even further.  Frankly, I don’t have data to speak to that either way. I would say that only Anet would know that.

[Cjay.6312]

Quote

2 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

Well why can't we make a full 5 man team in a game mode thats 5 on 5? I find thats the real question as everyone else allows this but anet. Perhaps your asking the wrong question, perhaps you need to take up some personal responsibility instead of blaming a duo. Perhaps you should advocate for our competitive game mode to have some kinda foundation like every other pvp game mode in every other game.

You say your new to pvp are you new to team based pvp in general? Ever played overwatch? Or Dota? Or any shooter? Or like moba or what ever you can play? Rocket league? Quake? Halo? ANYTHING!? that has ranked team modes? Like are you aware that the aspect removing teams in a team based game mode is the epitome or stupid? Since your a new player lemme give you advice,  since you disqualified everything you said with saying your pretty new and asking if your wrong ill answer.

Yes your wrong, and you should abstain from any opinions about pvp if your gonna disqualify your own statement with OH IM NEW.

Removing teams was and still is the greatest failure of anet not only did they kill community building they destroyed the game mode and subsequently destroyed ATs as nobody gonna join AT on w/o the ability to practice in real high ranked games it does not matter the rewards that is not the psychology of a pvp'er no one wants to get completely washed for 20 or even 200 gold thats why NO ONE DOES ATs. Bring back teams and ATs will grow.

 

Side note a real good way to fix alot of post like these is the increase the pvp rank to play ranked to 80 so then players have the experience of beating bad duos.

You typed all this just to be so wrong in every sense of the word. The reason why 5v5 was removed was because it wasn't fun for the community. It was just the best players washing the casual players. Or the best players washing decent players. It's not fun for anyone involved. Not only that, our population cannot sustain that like these other games you're mentioning can.  Manipulation still happens even when solo que and is actually best when done solo queue, so removing duo queue for that reason would be idiotic. A large part of why people do PvP is because of the rewards. That's kind of the point. To gain prestige by prevailing over your fellow players. To flaunt titles and whatnot you acquired in the process. Saying no one does ATs because no one has a place to practice is dumb. Daily ATs themselves are a great place to practice in a facilitated environment. Unranked is also another place you can practice, but you'd probably get significantly lower quality matches. And people are quite open to "getting washed" for large/consistent sums of gold. That's why random groups form up to do the mAT every month. They know they aren't gonna win but the reward is enticing and not too much effort required. You should abstain from having any further opinions about PvP if you're going to have nothing but ignorance to belch out dude. Don't tell some new player off for asking a genuine question like you have any right to do so. They're here to learn and grow just like anyone else. 

To the other guy, solo queue was tried before and it also proved to be a clown fiesta. Manipulation still happens regardless, and the quality of the games just got worse than if there were duos allowed. Instead of having someone you can comfortably rely on, you're left with randoms you dont know or trust to try and win a game. You remove the concept of playing with friends in ranked for fun, you lower the quality of matches, and no one really has fun. Having the option to go solo or duo is just the best medium objectively. 

 

[Ragnar.4257]

3 hours ago, TheDarkness.6947 said:

Why not just get rid of duo queue in ranked?  What purpose does it serve?

In a perfect world, where we can actually have nice things because people respect the ToS and don’t exploit the privilege, then sure.  On the surface it sounds like it lets you experience playing conquest with one friend.

As far as I can tell though, duo queue is the mechanic that enables people do match manipulation and win trading. So why not just make it solo queue only and eliminate the ability to do that? There are already other modes where you can queue for sPvP with a friend (unranked, AT, etc).

 

I’m pretty new to PvP.  I don’t win trade and don’t intend to, so maybe I misunderstand how it works.  Seems to me like this one simple change would take a dev 5 minutes and greatly reduce players’ ability to manipulate ranked PvP matches. Am I wrong?  

 

Have to be honest, as someone fairly new to PvP, my perception right now is that match manipulation is pretty much the ONLY reason people duo queue.

This is a very wrong perception, perhaps from reading the forums too much.

 

Win-trading and match-manipulation is something that affects maybe 0.01% of games. It's only something that there is even any point to do if you're in the top 100 and aiming for one of the top titles/rewards, or in with a shot at winning MAT.

 

Because it keeps being talked about, people have this perception that win-trading is happening everywhere, in every game. It isn't. If If you're an average player in silver/gold, nobody there is win-trading or match manipulating. 99.9% of the people duo-queuing are duoing because they want to play with a friend. The impression you have that the majority of duos are cheating is due to this community blowing the issue waaaaaaay out of proportion.

 

If you're not in the top 10, this doesn't affect you.

 

There are plenty of other issues that affect silver/gold tiers, like bots, afks, people being toxic, but not win-trading.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[Genesis.5169]

4 hours ago, Cjay.6312 said:

 

So you just said very long winded that you dont want team queues because you don't like losing or afraid to lose. Losing is foundational TO PVP. HOLY kitten. Thanks for proving my point. No reasonable pvp player wants to be babied and if they know they are babied most not all people who pvp will leave it, which they did. Growth is what gives player retention god Anet really balanced backwards and made it so any one who wants to dedicate time and build something with people in pvp don't get to do that and have to struggle the most to play because AT's are the top of the pvp game and WE HAVE NO WAY OF PRACTICING IN HIGH RANKED GAMES THAT IS A MASSIVE PUNISHMENT TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO COMPETE IN ATS.

Ill give you something anecdotal but will kinda prove my point here are two fighters.

https://steamcharts.com/app/678950
https://steamcharts.com/app/389730

Both are fighting games both are popular, the first one is DBZFZ got off the ground with 44k players Strong start its fairly easy fighter you can just spam buttons to get things done current player rate is 2.3k this is an easier game doesnt take to long go get good and quit.

The second is tekken 7 which i play as you see it only peaked at 18k on steam but there are 8k players on average which is more then triple what dbfz is pulling in and if you look throughout the years the player retention only gets higher. The reason for that is because when you dedicate time to get good at something and you were once bad at it you stick around because you spent time on it. Arena net completely destroyed this in there game only trying to cater to people who actually dont like pvp at all. Tekken 7 is known to be one of the hardest Fighters on the planet if not the hardest btw, and look at that retention.

Honestly it has come to me perhaps anet has been balancing for people who just dont fundamentally like pvp in any form thus and in doing so they alienate everyone they alienate the folks who like to pvp and the folks who don't like to pvp will just find something to remove out of the game in hopes of them finally liking pvp.

LEMME JUST ADD THAT AGAIN TEAMS ARE AT A DISADVANTAGE IN ATS BECAUSE THERE IS NO PLACE IN HIGH RANK TO PRACTICE AT ALL SO YOUR AT RENTENTION IS GONNA BE ULTRA TRASH BECAUSE NOBODY GONNA WAIT ALL DAY TO BE ELIMINATED FIRST ROUND TO WAIT TO DO AGAIN IN AN HOUR. UNRANKED GAMES DO NOT PREPARE YOU FOR ATS THEY NEVER DO ANY GAME.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Genesis.5169
Alot more info and formatting.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

7 hours ago, nativity.3057 said:

 

Yeah we've already had this discussion, and the community voted in favor of duo queue. 

🤣

 

You mean that pretty much 50-50 vote that every top player who had been and still are abusing DuoQ could have voted multiple times for?

 

Yeah, this is definitely something we wanted. Keep speaking for us.

[Vancho.8750]

3 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

So you just said very long winded that you dont want team queues because you don't like losing or afraid to lose. Losing is foundational TO PVP. HOLY kitten. Thanks for proving my point. No reasonable pvp player wants to be babied and if they know they are babied most not all people who pvp will leave it, which they did. Growth is what gives player retention god Anet really balanced backwards and made it so any one who wants to dedicate time and build something with people in pvp don't get to do that and have to struggle the most to play because AT's are the top of the pvp game and WE HAVE NO WAY OF PRACTICING IN HIGH RANKED GAMES THAT IS A MASSIVE PUNISHMENT TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO COMPETE IN ATS.

Ill give you something anecdotal but will kinda prove my point here are two fighters.

https://steamcharts.com/app/678950
https://steamcharts.com/app/389730

Both are fighting games both are popular, the first one is DBZFZ got off the ground with 44k players Strong start its fairly easy fighter you can just spam buttons to get things done current player rate is 2.3k this is an easier game doesnt take to long go get good and quit.

The second is tekken 7 which i play as you see it only peaked at 18k on steam but there are 8k players on average which is more then triple what dbfz is pulling in and if you look throughout the years the player retention only gets higher. The reason for that is because when you dedicate time to get good at something and you were once bad at it you stick around because you spent time on it. Arena net completely destroyed this in there game only trying to cater to people who actually dont like pvp at all. Tekken 7 is know to be one of the hardest Fighters on the planet if not the hardest btw, and look at that retention.

Honestly it has come to me perhaps anet has been balancing for people who just dont fundamentally like pvp in any form thus and in doing so they alienate everyone the alienate the folks who like to pvp and the folks who don't like to pvp will just find something to remove out of the game in hopes of them finally liking pvp.

LEMME JUST ADD THAT AGAIN TEAMS ARE AT A DISADVANTAGE IN ATS BECAUSE THERE IS NO PLACE IN HIGH RANK TO PRACTICE AT ALL SO YOUR AT RENTENTION IS GONNA BE ULTRA TRASH BECAUSE NOBODY GONNA ALL DAY TO BE ELIMINATED FIRST ROUND TO WAIT TO DO AGAIN IN AN HOUR. UNRANKED GAMES DO NOT PREPARE YOU FOR ATS THEY NEVER DO ANY GAME.

I like how everyone shouts 5v5 team queue will fix Ranked, lol. Ranked would have been even bigger shitshow, it would even add yet another problem with boosting since 4 skilled players would be able to boost a bad player no problem to at least plat. The win trade thing that goes on with duo que will be worse with 5 man. People will dodge each other even more to keep rating all the while the rest would not even dare to play it since whatever the mat winner is these days will just steam roll your gold 3 team because kitten all people will play. People will not 5 man queue it is not a draw to most ATs show how many teams would queue up, allot of people are playing the PvP casually and forming a 5 man team will be a chore. The mode has large barrier to entry since it is low population cause there is barely any marketing for the game, and low population causes low population, there is no new blood. People leave mostly due to the game being stale since it is solved, the best build are already shown, the big slump happened because there was no new expansion and no new ways to play. How many people say I'll wait for EoD to play the game? 

ATs were the answer of Arenanet to team queue, it solves several problems. People can't dodge eachother if they want the big prize, people have to queue at the same time to participate so no 1 hour waiting for a game, they made it swiss so you actually play more rounds and your team is not booted out after one loss, there will be blow outs since anyone can queue but the better teams will get their good game at the end. They can make a leaderboard for teams with rating and it will be team queue. Also High rankers can do scrims in the custom servers which would result in better experience than steamrolling mister g3 and friends in team queue .        

Also I think the whole Hype for EoD and streamers "discovering" the game boosted the population enough to have the P1 bracket filled again. And before, lets say the Advanced players, didn't have anyone to play, you either play vs the G2 bracket or rarely the P3/Legend bracket, so you are in a shitshow or a steamrolled game.  Now the matchmeker doesn't seem to kitten itself with more population on board or I just got Allot of lucky queues and the game is kittening with me to give me the wrong perspective.   

[xiaoyan.1637]

It’s a really fair point that duo que brings more potential for imbalance i.e. one side has duo(s) and other side doesn’t.  
 

The more you allow players to stack their own teams, the more likely it is to have uneven matches.  That is basic logic.

 

The only reason people voted for duo queues to stay was so they could play with at least a friend.  Tbh that was mostly driven by the top players.  It should be rethought as whether it actually contributed to the dwindling population because most of the newer players stand no chance against a good duo. 

[felix.2386]

Because all the top players would quit,

because they can't get superior rating without duoQ to feel superiority over other players to make them feel better for having no real life.

without it, they can still get good rating, just so much closer, with no huge rating gap at certain rank, but they don't want to work hard and "carry noobs" like any other pvp games, they just want easier wins for easy rating to feel the superiority.

and that's like the top 25 players, and basically 50% of the pvp player base.

and top 50 are just the same people but on their alts, may include top100 for some.

Edited October 9, 2021 by felix.2386

[Stand The Wall.6987]

cuz people voted for it years ago.

[Khalisto.5780]

On 10/9/2021 at 1:06 AM, felix.2386 said:

Because all the top players would quit,

because they can't get superior rating without duoQ to feel superiority over other players to make them feel better for having no real life.

without it, they can still get good rating, just so much closer, with no huge rating gap at certain rank, but they don't want to work hard and "carry noobs" like any other pvp games, they just want easier wins for easy rating to feel the superiority.

and that's like the top 25 players, and basically 50% of the pvp player base.

and top 50 are just the same people but on their alts, may include top100 for some.

I believe the very top of the ladder would see little shifts, top 25 would still be crowded with top 10 alts, but top 100 we'd see new names cuz the duo q dodgers offhour pros would be just gone

Edited October 10, 2021 by Khalisto.5780

[TheDarkness.6947]

20 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

This is a very wrong perception, perhaps from reading the forums too much.

 

Win-trading and match-manipulation is something that affects maybe 0.01% of games. It's only something that there is even any point to do if you're in the top 100 and aiming for one of the top titles/rewards, or in with a shot at winning MAT.

 

Because it keeps being talked about, people have this perception that win-trading is happening everywhere, in every game. It isn't. If If you're an average player in silver/gold, nobody there is win-trading or match manipulating. 99.9% of the people duo-queuing are duoing because they want to play with a friend. The impression you have that the majority of duos are cheating is due to this community blowing the issue waaaaaaay out of proportion.

 

If you're not in the top 10, this doesn't affect you.

 

There are plenty of other issues that affect silver/gold tiers, like bots, afks, people being toxic, but not win-trading.

Thanks for trying to restore my confidence in the integrity of the system.  You’re probably right - or at least I hope you are.

 

Yes, I do see bots, and AFKs, and toxicity.  I see other things that I wonder about too.  Players that appear to be both operating as a coordinated duo and also seem far too skilled/experienced to be playing at the MMR I’m at.  And also people that, while technically not AFK, are playing so poorly that I wonder if they are purposely throwing the game.  

 

These things are probably all explainable by forces other than win trading.  Before I would probably have written them off to extremely low population and the MMS eventually throwing up its arms in the interest of queue times.  So maybe recent events have caused me to overthink it.

 

Really I just want quality matches.  The game mode can be really fun if you get a good match up where players and teams are pretty evenly skilled and experienced.  That just doesn’t seem to happen nearly as often as it should.

Edited October 9, 2021 by TheDarkness.6947

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

On 10/8/2021 at 1:00 PM, Genesis.5169 said:

So you just said very long winded that you dont want team queues because you don't like losing or afraid to lose. Losing is foundational TO PVP. HOLY kitten. Thanks for proving my point. No reasonable pvp player wants to be babied and if they know they are babied most not all people who pvp will leave it, which they did. Growth is what gives player retention god Anet really balanced backwards and made it so any one who wants to dedicate time and build something with people in pvp don't get to do that and have to struggle the most to play because AT's are the top of the pvp game and WE HAVE NO WAY OF PRACTICING IN HIGH RANKED GAMES THAT IS A MASSIVE PUNISHMENT TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO COMPETE IN ATS.

Ill give you something anecdotal but will kinda prove my point here are two fighters.

https://steamcharts.com/app/678950
https://steamcharts.com/app/389730

Both are fighting games both are popular, the first one is DBZFZ got off the ground with 44k players Strong start its fairly easy fighter you can just spam buttons to get things done current player rate is 2.3k this is an easier game doesnt take to long go get good and quit.

The second is tekken 7 which i play as you see it only peaked at 18k on steam but there are 8k players on average which is more then triple what dbfz is pulling in and if you look throughout the years the player retention only gets higher. The reason for that is because when you dedicate time to get good at something and you were once bad at it you stick around because you spent time on it. Arena net completely destroyed this in there game only trying to cater to people who actually dont like pvp at all. Tekken 7 is known to be one of the hardest Fighters on the planet if not the hardest btw, and look at that retention.

Honestly it has come to me perhaps anet has been balancing for people who just dont fundamentally like pvp in any form thus and in doing so they alienate everyone they alienate the folks who like to pvp and the folks who don't like to pvp will just find something to remove out of the game in hopes of them finally liking pvp.

LEMME JUST ADD THAT AGAIN TEAMS ARE AT A DISADVANTAGE IN ATS BECAUSE THERE IS NO PLACE IN HIGH RANK TO PRACTICE AT ALL SO YOUR AT RENTENTION IS GONNA BE ULTRA TRASH BECAUSE NOBODY GONNA WAIT ALL DAY TO BE ELIMINATED FIRST ROUND TO WAIT TO DO AGAIN IN AN HOUR. UNRANKED GAMES DO NOT PREPARE YOU FOR ATS THEY NEVER DO ANY GAME.

Buddy, you are embarrassing yourself here. Cjay isn't the guy who is scared to lose, he is the guy that is better than everyone and destroying everyone else. 

 

You are barely out of Silver. He is one of the best players in the game. He is talking from a lot more experience and gameplay knowledge than you. A LOT MORE. 

 

If you want to learn more about the game and how it actually works, listen to what this guy has to say. 

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by Ronald McDonald.8165

[Genesis.5169]

16 hours ago, Ronald McDonald.8165 said:

Buddy, you are embarrassing yourself here. Cjay isn't the guy who is scared to lose, he is the guy that is better than everyone and destroying everyone else. 

 

You are barely out of Silver. He is one of the best players in the game. He is talking from a lot more experience and gameplay knowledge than you. A LOT MORE. 

 

If you want to learn more about the game and how it actually works, listen to what this guy has to say. 

 

Bruh i have no games at all look at my rates. Look at my past season but go on and point out my rank, also of all my loses more then half were due to afk or dcs. In any season i play 100games i land g3 or g2 depends on how much mirage i play.

And yeah he's afraid of losing idc about his rank this entire community is by far the most scared of losing community i have ever seen and im coming from kittening tekken 7.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[lightDestroyer.1265]

On 10/8/2021 at 5:13 PM, TheDarkness.6947 said:

Why not just get rid of duo queue in ranked?  What purpose does it serve?

In a perfect world, where we can actually have nice things because people respect the ToS and don’t exploit the privilege, then sure.  On the surface it sounds like it lets you experience playing conquest with one friend.

As far as I can tell though, duo queue is the mechanic that enables people do match manipulation and win trading. So why not just make it solo queue only and eliminate the ability to do that? There are already other modes where you can queue for sPvP with a friend (unranked, AT, etc).

 

I’m pretty new to PvP.  I don’t win trade and don’t intend to, so maybe I misunderstand how it works.  Seems to me like this one simple change would take a dev 5 minutes and greatly reduce players’ ability to manipulate ranked PvP matches. Am I wrong?  

 

Have to be honest, as someone fairly new to PvP, my perception right now is that match manipulation is pretty much the ONLY reason people duo queue.

If u r new to pvp,  you dont need to worry abt win trading, since that happens at the very top which you wont reach anytime soon.  And people duo queue to enjoy playing withtheir friends.  

[TheDarkness.6947]

1 hour ago, lightDestroyer.1265 said:

If u r new to pvp,  you dont need to worry abt win trading, since that happens at the very top which you wont reach anytime soon.  And people duo queue to enjoy playing withtheir friends.  

Cool, if the consensus is that this is only an issue at the very top, then I won’t worry about it anymore.  Being able to queue with a friend is a good feature, so long as it’s not a common source of abuse.

[felix.2386]

On 10/9/2021 at 5:34 AM, Khalisto.5780 said:

I believe the very top of the ladder would see little shifts, would still be crowded with top 10 alts, but top 100 we'd see new names cuz the duo q dodgers offhour pros would be just gone

nah, top100 is easy AF, any one decent will get in soloq without trying much.

it's mostly top10 25 that abuses offhour duoq against bots the most (not all, but a lot of them)

 

but that's not the point, i never said anything about player shifts.

the main point is, they will most likely still be top rating, but their rating will be less bloated and will have the gap reduced.

like if you actually paid attention for trying to get in top25. there's a huge rating gap in the ladder at some point close to the top.

which should not happen in any healthy pvp game. and that is caused by abusing the system, to obtain a very bloated rating..to feed their ego most likely, same with win trading, which kills the competitive spirit and kills the fun. i literally gave up for top10, because i can't not find time to no life duoq in offhour and that's the only way to compete. and again, pvp without goal is dead pvp, so i quitted.

Edited October 10, 2021 by felix.2386

[Genesis.5169]

As a side note we are is a sorry state if our top players Like cjay as you guys mentioned support the removal of 5v5s our best players are for outside forces to even the game. Yeah maybe gw2 pvp is beyond saving, it will never be truly competitive and therefore it will always be a lie and it will always suck.

Edited October 10, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Cjay.6312]

1 hour ago, Genesis.5169 said:

As a side note we are is a sorry state if our top players Like cjay as you guys mentioned support the removal of 5v5s our best players are for outside forces to even the game. Yeah maybe gw2 pvp is beyond saving, it will never be truly competitive and therefore it will always be a lie and it will always suck.

Dude, what makes you think I'm afraid of losing? I'm literally a r1 player and just got r3 again last season like 160-40. I don't LIKE losing but I'm not afraid of losing, nor is anyone else. We all know we're going to lose eventually. I don't support the removal of 5v5. I also don't support 5 man queues either. I think that daily and monthly ATs are a great source of 5 man queue and there is no need to bring that to ranked. Duo queue in ranked is perfectly fine, the mmr system just needs to be fixed a little and our population needs to grow

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

26 minutes ago, Cjay.6312 said:

just got r3 again last season like 160-40.

I thought the point of removing duo que was to prevent stuff like this

[felix.2386]

2 hours ago, Cjay.6312 said:

Dude, what makes you think I'm afraid of losing? I'm literally a r1 player and just got r3 again last season like 160-40. I don't LIKE losing but I'm not afraid of losing, nor is anyone else. We all know we're going to lose eventually. I don't support the removal of 5v5. I also don't support 5 man queues either. I think that daily and monthly ATs are a great source of 5 man queue and there is no need to bring that to ranked. Duo queue in ranked is perfectly fine, the mmr system just needs to be fixed a little and our population needs to grow

Nobody is "afraid" of losing in a video game

everybody "dislike" losing, thus wintrading, abusing system, duoqing in dead hour.

doesn't matter if it is fear or hate that is the motive tbh.

 

mmr system doesnt fix everything by miracle.

sure duoq will be better if population grow, just like 3men 4men 5men will be better if population grow..so why dont we just put back 5 men? fact is population is not growing. and duoq isnt helping.

 

you don't support removal of 5v5, because you know 2v2 and 3v3 will be clown fest, disregarding balance, just top players group Qing and Q dodging each other and try to farm other players for bloated rating.

duoq in 5v5 right now is basically same, for the lack of players, just to a tiny bit lesser extend with a bit more random factor, but the principle doesn't change.

players will simply stop playing when theres a better duoq, because players will 100% be Qed with them every match and lose hundreds of rating, all players can do is just Q dodge and Q at another dead time and farm rating off gold players.

its unfun, its bs and it is not competitive.

Edited October 10, 2021 by felix.2386

[Noz.4650]

On 10/9/2021 at 12:06 AM, felix.2386 said:

Because all the top players would quit,

because they can't get superior rating without duoQ to feel superiority over other players to make them feel better for having no real life.

without it, they can still get good rating, just so much closer, with no huge rating gap at certain rank, but they don't want to work hard and "carry noobs" like any other pvp games, they just want easier wins for easy rating to feel the superiority.

and that's like the top 25 players, and basically 50% of the pvp player base.

and top 50 are just the same people but on their alts, may include top100 for some.

I mean you can't blame good players for wanting to duoq with other good players to win more and in general make the ranked experience more enjoyable. Like of all things to blame "top players" for this just isn't one of them. Plenty of very solid players who soloq only finish seasons with what would seem is a low rating but in reality no one kittening cares and neither should you. If the population was actually healthy you'd see more competition and a more accurate rating spread but we're just not there right now so either play for fun or don't play. People really want to find reasons why they can't climb the leaderboards and blame every issue on others.

Edited October 10, 2021 by eksn.7264

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

On 10/9/2021 at 9:14 AM, TheDarkness.6947 said:

Thanks for trying to restore my confidence in the integrity of the system.  You’re probably right - or at least I hope you are.

 

Yes, I do see bots, and AFKs, and toxicity.  I see other things that I wonder about too.  Players that appear to be both operating as a coordinated duo and also seem far too skilled/experienced to be playing at the MMR I’m at.  And also people that, while technically not AFK, are playing so poorly that I wonder if they are purposely throwing the game.  

 

These things are probably all explainable by forces other than win trading.  Before I would probably have written them off to extremely low population and the MMS eventually throwing up its arms in the interest of queue times.  So maybe recent events have caused me to overthink it.

 

Really I just want quality matches.  The game mode can be really fun if you get a good match up where players and teams are pretty evenly skilled and experienced.  That just doesn’t seem to happen nearly as often as it should.

 

Ragnar is indeed right. Match Manipulation is very much so, a rare occurrence, that only the very top people partake in at the end of the season, and it more than likely doesn't effect you at all. 

 

However, what you should be concerned with, is that these top players, may or may not be the same top players that are in the dev discords discussing balance with the guy who balances the game...which speaks to a larger issue about who is actually qualified to talk about balance decisions on the game to the dev team...should being a good player qualify you to influence balance decisions?

 

Aside from that issue, the Match Maker has it's own catalog of issues in and of itself. It's hard to really get anything factual about the matchmaker, even though we know how it works (It uses modified Glicko) because clearly there are issues with giving out matches and yet in principle Glicko should work. I have my own theories, but I actually believe Glicko doesn't work, because it's an approximate theory where a more discrete theory is necessary to truly ascertain player skill. Because it's approximate, It groups Highly skilled players with new players like yourself, and couples them into the same matches and bases there performance on a single parameter (whether you won or lose) and this approximation of skill, keeps higher skilled players in brackets with lower skill players for periods of time that are too long and don't allow the the algorithm to actually work.

In addition i think being a multiplayer game, when Glicko was designed for a single player game, makes the algorithm just not work at all...which has to do with how these approximate theories work in environments with multiple players that decide a single parameter (winning/losing)

Edited October 10, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684