New Thief Elite - The Specter

[RyuDragnier.9476]

3 minutes ago, Nomad.4301 said:

So.. it IS a support spec but it's almost entirely focused on single target support, barrier, boons, healing is all focused on a single ally target which is.... an interesting direction to go in this game.

 

I'm not sure how this will feel or work in the actual game but it sounds pretty bad to focus on a single target in a game where tanks don't exist and literally EVERYTHING is a cleave or an AoE, not to mention the game's UI doesn't really make it easy to target allies especially if you are un-grouped such as in a PuG setting or WvW.

 

Guess we'll find out on Tuesday.

Bottom traits add AoE healing, alac and barrier. Combined with Trickery, it could make for some pretty good AoE support. The only hard part is the last trait line if we're trying to make it a condi support or just plain support, there isn't much that seems to synergize well with it for raids/strikes.

Edited October 22, 2021 by RyuDragnier.9476

[Tails.9372]

7 minutes ago, Nomad.4301 said:

Imagine being in a fractal group with a specter and he only focuses on giving quickness to one guy 😆

Imagine being in a fractal PuG with a specter that doesn't care about supporting others while some of the other people are salty about not getting the support.

[Nomad.4301]

6 minutes ago, RyuDragnier.9476 said:

Bottom traits add AoE healing, alac and barrier. Combined with Trickery, it could make for some pretty good AoE support.

The main problem I see with running full support on specter is that you will basically be forced into trickery and possibly even SA because those are the only traitlines that have any sort of existing group support functionality, which will limit your options even more than we are used to.

Also the scaling on the existing 2 (really only 1) healing trait Shadow Savior is an abysmal 0.4 coefficient meaning the only base thief AoE support will need a significant buff before it's actually usable, I believe it was healing for around 1.1k per shadowstep on allies in full heal gear, by comparison I can get 16k heal on Rev tablet heal skill, and that's more spammable.

 

I will wait till the wiki is updated with the new traits so that i can take a closer look but i only recall one trait for boosting healing output by 20%, for any sort of AoE healing, especially with bad coefficients that won't be enough, even after adding in runes. I assume the design here is to play like a Disc priest from WoW, where the idea is to prevent damage through barrier rather than heal it, which would only really work if you can upkeep barrier on more than 1 target, or tanks suddenly became a thing.. 

[Random Wax Orc.7695]

As a frustrated Engineer main, I have one observation on Specter from today's guild chat.  If there is any synergy between Specter and a tethered Untamed Pet, then there might be a new type of dual character meta.

[Doggie.3184]

So does it look like it could work well as a power/crit build?

[Nomad.4301]

1 minute ago, Doggie.3184 said:

So does it look like it could work well as a power/crit build?

I would say no, mostly all the trait were focused on condi or support or both, very little power or reason to run a Berserker build on specter. Things like Rot Wallow Venom make it pretty clear they want it to be condi.

[DemonCrypto.6792]

I just connected the dot.... but Specter is a type a pocket medic. TF2 would be proud🙃

Edited October 22, 2021 by DemonCrypto.6792

[Tails.9372]

12 minutes ago, Doggie.3184 said:

So does it look like it could work well as a power/crit build?

I wouldn't suggest it and I don't know what stats the dev was running but the Shadow Shroud AA has roughly the same power DPS as unload while also applying torment and might on top of it so I'd say it's "viable" but hybrid and especially condi are going to be preferable.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Tails.9372

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

They literally made Thief into a Monk with targeted healing. 

Suddenly, I miss the old Party Window from GW1 that made it convenient to heal people lel

[Doggie.3184]

11 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

They literally made Thief into a Monk with targeted healing. 

Suddenly, I miss the old Party Window from GW1 that made it convenient to heal people lel

yeah I was wondering about that but don't feel like logging in to see if I can target allies from the party UI.

I literally don't remember if there're easy ways to single target an ally cuz there's no reason to.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Doggie.3184

[RyuDragnier.9476]

28 minutes ago, Nomad.4301 said:

The main problem I see with running full support on specter is that you will basically be forced into trickery and possibly even SA because those are the only traitlines that have any sort of existing group support functionality, which will limit your options even more than we are used to.

Also the scaling on the existing 2 (really only 1) healing trait Shadow Savior is an abysmal 0.4 coefficient meaning the only base thief AoE support will need a significant buff before it's actually usable, I believe it was healing for around 1.1k per shadowstep on allies in full heal gear, by comparison I can get 16k heal on Rev tablet heal skill, and that's more spammable.

 

I will wait till the wiki is updated with the new traits so that i can take a closer look but i only recall one trait for boosting healing output by 20%, for any sort of AoE healing, especially with bad coefficients that won't be enough, even after adding in runes. I assume the design here is to play like a Disc priest from WoW, where the idea is to prevent damage through barrier rather than heal it, which would only really work if you can upkeep barrier on more than 1 target, or tanks suddenly became a thing.. 

I don't think full support will be what is ran on Specter since most of SA is going to require stealth (thereby making it kinda useless). If anything, I do suspect it'll be a condi support build, with Deadly Arts taken along with Trickery. Siphon has a lot of condis on it and it seemed like the wells did also. That way you're giving alacrity while also doing some heavy condis. However this likely also means we're locked into Plaguedoctor's since there's not much that gives concentration and condi damage.

Edited October 22, 2021 by RyuDragnier.9476

[Sodeni.6041]

I guess I'm becoming a thief main! Specter looks the best out of all the 9 elite specs for me.  Finally condi damage and a scepter, my favorite weapon. Magic on a thief with a single target support? That's unique and I love it. Sadly Virtuoso is on the bottom of my list but at least I'll be having fun with Specter.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Sodeni.6041

[itspomf.9523]

So scepter is just Pistol 3.0 with a greater focus on conditions, and the new well-o-steps are just a cheap attempt to Shadow Savior seem vaguely worthwhile, all tacked on what looks like a stripped-down, condition-focused version of Harbinger ... only it turned Vindicator's dodge into a rapid-fire skill (not that you'll do that terribly often with the cooldowns).

 

And keep that in mind:  cooldowns on Shadow Shroud.  Going to be fun to mentally go from Initiative to cooldowns and back again over and over.

 

I already hate that it basically looks like the same team responsible for "vials but different colors" on Harbinger (and basically all of Harbinger) designed Specter and its skill icons, which are -- you guessed it -- desaturated circles with squiggles in them!  At least that might be something of an improvement, though.

 

At this point, all I can say is that I will be judging it harshly come the beta.  Very.  Harshly.

 

 

[witcher.3197]

On 10/21/2021 at 3:20 AM, Loboling.5293 said:

I was seriously convinced that if multiple allies were downed around me, I could select one to rez by targetting them. If that's not the case.. welp. haha

I do think it would be really fun to be a class that offers short during buffs (barrier) and immunities to our allies. Basically, if core necro is said to be a punching bag because it lacks evades and blocks, having a specter with you makes up for that. They can using short cooldowns, fade people out of phase and have them evade, or conjure powerful shadowarmor that shields from harm, but it only lasts while the specter maintains the channel. I just feel like if it's about counterplays, defending allies from bursts and cleansing conditions, it'll be super interesting. Although maybe less useful in PvE, outside hard carries.

Edit: I wanted to add, I expect them to actually be easier to lock down than a normal thief. With more emphasis on cast times, rather than instant steals and teleports. Although base thief gives quite a kit already. But if a Specter is focusing on countering your pressure on their allies, it's almost impossible to get through, but pushing them away will be a viable strategy.  

I admit defeat, you were a prophet all along.

[Loboling.5293]

On 10/19/2021 at 10:18 AM, Loboling.5293 said:

Looks sick! I like that thief support focuses on supporting a single ally. It goes with their theme well. As the enemies pick focus targets, you shield them from harm and hide in the shadows yourself to evade danger. I don't think it'll be that strong of a bruiser, but a clear support spec that can help turn the tides during critical pushes. This spec will help protect commanders in wvw from spikes, heavy damage dealers during team fights, and hopefully will have a viable condi option in pve, although that seems unclear still. I think this spec will maintain thief roamer role, but a roamer support, less about team fights and more about turning specific engagements and running the map to pick out those situations. 

I hope I'm not just dreaming too much, but thats what I hear in terms of playstyle. Roamer support, most used for burst support to turn the tide of a moment, rather than the traditional boon spam. Which is why I don't think it'll do as well in PvE as a support, but still maybe I'm wrong. 

Well I was wrong, they are everything I dreamed of, but also aoe boon spam... =D 

I can't wait to try this one, Thief was my first character and I always would've mained them if they had a support option. I just like the variety in gameplay focus. This is going to keep me occupied for a while I hope. Assuming it plays as good as it looks, although Willbender looked really good too, but played like kitten. Hopefully Specter isn't the same. 
 

[Loboling.5293]

1 minute ago, witcher.3197 said:

I admit defeat, you were a prophet all along.

With serendipitous timing it would seem lol. I think we're both glad we're getting such a unique new support spec! So win, win!

[Zacchary.6183]

1 hour ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

Assuming people spell Specter as Spectre haha. I think your coined name is better than mine though haha. “Spelacrity” since there’s really no “L” in the name. 
 

I could make a joke about how Thieves still have taken an L even if it’s not in the name with this spec. But.. meh. I honesty wasn’t that impressed but. I’m also again not a supporty guy or pve player. But I can see how PvE players and Support styled players would be jumping up and down, and I’m happy for you guys 😄

I'm coining Alacrithief. I just hope that it's support is potent enough to challenge the meta.

[Xanadrine.4352]

Im waiting for beta but I gotta say, these three last specs are the best of them all. Im very excited to try them out, they look amazing. Looks like leather is back in fashion baby!! 

[AikijinX.6258]

I can honestly say I’m not thrilled about this spec, but I will wait till Tuesday for final judgment. Because just like how everyone was really excited about previous elite specs during Cal’s beta previews and then to find out during actual gameplay that some of those specs turned out not to be so great. I am hoping the reverse effect happens since I (personally) feel so poorly on this beta preview shown by Cal, I’m hoping in actual gameplay I will be WOW’d on Tuesday. So there’s hope for me 😄

I know this preview might have been hype for other people but me personally not as much. So that WOW effect that I am hoping to feel, might have already been felt by others today. And for that I’m happy for you guys. Can’t wait for Tuesday 🙂

[Will.9785]

So we can give alacrity with the trait but where's the quickness?  Alacrity isn't worth as much to thieves as it is other classes.

[RyuDragnier.9476]

Just now, Will.9785 said:

So we can give alacrity with the trait but where's the quickness?  Alacrity isn't worth as much to thieves as it is other classes.

It may mean nothing to us, but it means a lot to everybody else.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

I wish they reduced the kitten initiative costs for thief, So we aren't always forced into taking trickery. This pretty much makes the problem worse.

 

And alacrity? Sure... Borderline worthless to a thief as it doesn't help their main mechanic. I do not see this class rolling over well in the pvp game modes when its already rough to fight with only 12

[ens.9854]

Basically: replace high initiative with shroud. Initiative spamming (in pvp) is mainly defensive (stealth stacking, blinds, interrupts, flanking strike). Run with stability friends or prepare to run double stunbreaks.

Most healing is concentrated in shroud while you do DPS, which is nice from a viability perspective. Scepter barrier is more of a 'neat bonus'. Strike damage also looked high on shroud. Celestial thief maybe?

 

More likely we get to learn about stage 5 kitten with specter/specter trailblazer duo tethering each other.

[RyuDragnier.9476]

19 minutes ago, Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

And alacrity? Sure... Borderline worthless to a thief as it doesn't help their main mechanic. I do not see this class rolling over well in the pvp game modes when its already rough to fight with only 12

You DO know how support roles function, right?

[kash.9213]

53 minutes ago, fluffdragon.1523 said:

So scepter is just Pistol 3.0 with a greater focus on conditions, and the new well-o-steps are just a cheap attempt to Shadow Savior seem vaguely worthwhile, all tacked on what looks like a stripped-down, condition-focused version of Harbinger ... only it turned Vindicator's dodge into a rapid-fire skill (not that you'll do that terribly often with the cooldowns).

 

And keep that in mind:  cooldowns on Shadow Shroud.  Going to be fun to mentally go from Initiative to cooldowns and back again over and over.

 

I already hate that it basically looks like the same team responsible for "vials but different colors" on Harbinger (and basically all of Harbinger) designed Specter and its skill icons, which are -- you guessed it -- desaturated circles with squiggles in them!  At least that might be something of an improvement, though.

 

At this point, all I can say is that I will be judging it harshly come the beta.  Very.  Harshly.

 

 

This feels like their team had one person who maybe played a thief a few times and understood the need to bounce to people real quick. The rest of this Elite feels like another professions main dev used one of their professions scrapped ideas for a sparkly hand waving magic caster. 

There's no reason for a quasi hybrid simply reducing Initiative to force the use of the new resource, unless there's a legit combo weaving with one resource being an additive. 

Those Shadowsteps had better be the meat of the Elite, like how a current support thief would be primarily mobile, or it's going to be boring AF as far as thief gameplay goes. I hope I'm wrong and there's some fluidity to it but I can't imagine that being the case with the Scepter and mostly range.