New Thief Elite - The Specter

[Esorono.1039]

5 hours ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

Some of us belive the phrase "All thieves know the advantages of hiding in the shadows, but Specterd know how to wield them" in the trailer mean no acces to Stealth (or at least less acces)

I figured the same, I think that all skills that would cause stealth will instead do something else, like grant barrier, protection, and resistance, as all three appeared at the same time in the trailer. And I really like those boons as support, all it is missing is Aegis and it would be great for pug carrying.

[Loboling.5293]

On 10/19/2021 at 1:44 PM, witcher.3197 said:

I don't know where you're getting that from, but that's never going to happen. Anet doesn't let us target allies, ever, and every support skill is a point blank AoE around your character. Unless skills have an AoE cap of 1 and it just targets the nearest ally (in which case it's going to be unusable while stacked on bosses or in a wvw zerg).

I guess the ranger skill rescue me doesn't exist in your version of the game. But you're right that it's definitely not the rule, but the exception. Being able to target specific allies for support would make the spec very unique, and more in line with the thieves more single target focus. It's just an idea though, I could be wrong and they could have the thief pulsing aoe support, I just don't expect that. 

[witcher.3197]

11 minutes ago, Loboling.5293 said:

I guess the ranger skill rescue me doesn't exist in your version of the game. But you're right that it's definitely not the rule, but the exception. Being able to target specific allies for support would make the spec very unique, and more in line with the thieves more single target focus. It's just an idea though, I could be wrong and they could have the thief pulsing aoe support, I just don't expect that. 

Your idea isn't bad, it just goes against Anet's self-enforced "play the game, not the UI" rule which is honestly very limiting and causes a lot of design problems. But that's not going to change now.

Search and rescue is also just a PBAoE with a cap of 1 person. It works because it always has the same effect, you teleport a downed to you. Healing is more problematic, let's say a single target heal heals for 8k and it goes into the guy with 500 missinghealth because the ally missing 10k was 20 range farther. With a target cap of 5 or 10 it's way harder to waste your heals because it'll almost certainly get good value on at least a few targets.

Hmm I guess they could make single target heals heal the most injured ally, that could work. But most boss attacks in PvE are AoE damage so if you overheal 1 guy and 4 dies that's still bad, and in PvP if your heals are so strong no single target can ever go down that's a problem too. 

So maybe it's not impossible, but I think it's too hard to implement and EoD's too rushed to experiment with finetuning this.

Edited October 20, 2021 by witcher.3197

[itspomf.9523]

18 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Since it's nuts that Thief is finally getting something this edgy and different.

 

Have you played Deadeye by chance, and heard their voicelines?  Might as well have called it "Edgelord" so it'd match what's in the tin.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

1 hour ago, fluffdragon.1523 said:

Have you played Deadeye by chance, and heard their voicelines?  Might as well have called it "Edgelord" so it'd match what's in the tin.

When you're chaining multiple mobs with Be Quick or Be Killed

Contract acce-

Contract comp-

Contract acce-

Contract comp-

Contract acce-

Contract comp-

Contract acce-

Contract comp-

NO NO NO WE SHOULD GO TO THE NO NO NO!

[Shiyo.3578]

Why does it seem like the video cuts off at the end? It just ends so abruptly...

[PrinceValentine.9320]

I love it. 

 

Specter will be the perfect addition to my collection of support characters (Firebrand and Scrapper). Thank you, Anet. 

 

 

[Loboling.5293]

6 hours ago, witcher.3197 said:

Your idea isn't bad, it just goes against Anet's self-enforced "play the game, not the UI" rule which is honestly very limiting and causes a lot of design problems. But that's not going to change now.

Search and rescue is also just a PBAoE with a cap of 1 person. It works because it always has the same effect, you teleport a downed to you. Healing is more problematic, let's say a single target heal heals for 8k and it goes into the guy with 500 missinghealth because the ally missing 10k was 20 range farther. With a target cap of 5 or 10 it's way harder to waste your heals because it'll almost certainly get good value on at least a few targets.

Hmm I guess they could make single target heals heal the most injured ally, that could work. But most boss attacks in PvE are AoE damage so if you overheal 1 guy and 4 dies that's still bad, and in PvP if your heals are so strong no single target can ever go down that's a problem too. 

So maybe it's not impossible, but I think it's too hard to implement and EoD's too rushed to experiment with finetuning this.

I was seriously convinced that if multiple allies were downed around me, I could select one to rez by targetting them. If that's not the case.. welp. haha

I do think it would be really fun to be a class that offers short during buffs (barrier) and immunities to our allies. Basically, if core necro is said to be a punching bag because it lacks evades and blocks, having a specter with you makes up for that. They can using short cooldowns, fade people out of phase and have them evade, or conjure powerful shadowarmor that shields from harm, but it only lasts while the specter maintains the channel. I just feel like if it's about counterplays, defending allies from bursts and cleansing conditions, it'll be super interesting. Although maybe less useful in PvE, outside hard carries.

Edit: I wanted to add, I expect them to actually be easier to lock down than a normal thief. With more emphasis on cast times, rather than instant steals and teleports. Although base thief gives quite a kit already. But if a Specter is focusing on countering your pressure on their allies, it's almost impossible to get through, but pushing them away will be a viable strategy.  

Edited October 21, 2021 by Loboling.5293

[Overworld.9613]

If the thief loses access to stealth, then what does shadow's refuge give to other players if I'm a Spector?
Can I put other players in shadow shroud and now we're all being the support role for 8 seconds?

[AikijinX.6258]

You know what. I don’t think there is anyway we are losing stealth. Making a system or form to play around stealth is so complicated. And with the amount of effort anet has put into these elite specs thus far or lack of.. (with recycled animations, attacks etc) I doubt they actually made a system to work around stealth.

Because there are just too many factors that don’t make sense like utility skills like shadow refuge (will we just not benefit from our own refuge while Allies do), Allies stealthing us (for instance group GvG/ZvZ (we just won’t be able to stealth with our group and hence more become more of a burden if we are following our commander. The opposition will just know where to skill bomb.)  And too many traits that’ll just be obsolete, since some are  tied in with steal mechanic.
 

I can’t imagine this spec without stealth and I can’t imagine they actually put in extra effort for  the Thief  spec when their beloved Willbender (Anet loves their guardians) and other specs received very little effort and forethought, especially Virtuoso. But we shall see on Friday I can be entirely wrong, and I’ll be ok with this too.

Edited October 21, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[ASP.8093]

It's certainly very different, which imo means it has the potential to be good fun.

[Overworld.9613]

If we assume development space is limited, then we can expect some action to give stacks of a unique buff and an F# key to spend them all and turn it into X seconds of shroud. Similar to the Necro getting stacks of their hp- buff. 

Also that's give some conveyance on how ready an enemy spectre is to go into shadowshroud, as the stacks would be in their target UI info. Which reads a lot better than instantaneous and unknowable amount of time an enemy player would spend in stealth. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Core Thief already has the makings of a good support build. They can heal, revive, stealth and buff allies, and with Pack runes already give permanent Might, Fury, Swiftness and Vigor, all combined with plenty of boonstrips and a good amount of CC and Vulnerability application.

 

The issue I always had with playing it was the healing couldn't keep up in high-pressure content.  If the Thief gets access to barriers, this will likely be solved, as it'll give just enough headroom for their normal allied heals to shine, just like on Scourge, who also has weak heals but uses them extremely efficiently due to barrier generation.

 

The devs pretty much sold the entire expansion to me, this is literally all I've wanted from the game for a long time. Now if they just improve Catalyst I'll be happy as a clam.

 

Shadow Mender meta begins.

Edited October 21, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

4 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Core Thief already has the makings of a good support build. They can heal, revive, stealth and buff allies, and with Pack runes already give permanent Might, Fury, Swiftness and Vigor, all combined with plenty of boonstrips and a good amount of CC and Vulnerability application.

 

The issue I always had with playing it was the healing couldn't keep up in high-pressure content.  If the Thief gets access to barriers, this will likely be solved, as it'll give just enough headroom for their normal allied heals to shine, just like on Scourge, who also has weak heals but uses them extremely efficiently due to barrier generation.

 

The devs pretty much sold the entire expansion to me, this is literally all I've wanted from the game for a long time. Now if they just improve Catalyst I'll be happy as a clam.

 

Shadow Mender meta begins.

I mean... every class can technically do everything. However, since the addition of the Elite Specs, there's a lot of things that other classes simply do better than thief now with no where near the same level of sacrifices.

[RobinotX.1604]

More info on Specter

Quote

“By utilizing their Shadow Shroud, the specter harnesses the power of shadow magic to debilitate their enemies and preserve the health of their allies. By diving straight into the shadows, they’ve learned to control them. With this new specialization, the thief sacrifices a portion of their initiative pool and gains a new resource called Shadow Force. Siphon replaces Steal, instead granting you the ability to inflict conditions on your foes while generating Shadow Force. Wielding a scepter, the specter hurls bolts of tormenting shadow magic at enemies. The weapon set includes new dual attacks based on your available off-hand weapons, and it delivers potent ranged condition damage to enemies that cross its path. The specter utilizes wells, a mobile method of delivering supportive and offensive playstyles around the battlefield. Each well skill will shadowstep you to your targeted location and then lay the well at your feet, allowing you to harry foes with offensive effects or bolster allies.”

 

[AikijinX.6258]

4 minutes ago, RobinotX.1604 said:

More info on Specter

 

Where was this from?

[LucianDK.8615]

Looks interesting, but gawd, a visual mess. Purple smeared just about everywhere.

[Downstate.4697]

27 minutes ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

Where was this from?

https://www.zebrapartners.net/gw2-end-of-dragons/

[Downstate.4697]

Wells and they all have a teleport. Works with some shadow arts traits.

[ASP.8093]

Wells. Oof.

Torment. Oof.

Reduced initiative pool. Oof.

Steal replaced with something that probably has a cast time. Oof.

(Wells that teleport you to the well? Double oof.)

[AikijinX.6258]

53 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

Wells. Oof.

Torment. Oof.

Reduced initiative pool. Oof.

Steal replaced with something that probably has a cast time. Oof.

(Wells that teleport you to the well? Double oof.)

Sounds like a lot of telegraphed playstyle. But we shall see. And wells.. yippie my favorite.. /s 

 (This is the last thing I wanted) these well teleports better be instant cast, break stun, and NOT categorized as a (shadow step). An Actual portal this time that ignores terrain, rocks and blades of grass. Much like Mesmer portal and our current preparation portal so there's less room for failure.

Honestly with the introduction of preparation utility skills, they were priming and preparing us to be ready for wells type of gameplay

from what I read though, seems like we do keep our f1 steal, just when we are in shadow shroud it switches over to the new mechanic. I also believe we are keeping stealth. From what I read on the MMORPG website as they discussed the Specter specialization it’s as followed:

“ While the Specter will gain new knowledge, the flexibility of the thief shouldn't be lost. This time, however, you may be wielding a scepter for new magic options to keep playing with shadowy stealth and direct interaction. You’ll also be able to use those shadow powers in ways you might be more used to, to debilitate your enemies and claim victory.”

https://www.mmorpg.com/news/embrace-shadow-magic-as-guild-wars-2-reveals-the-thiefs-elite-specialization-the-specter-2000123385

Edited October 21, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[ASP.8093]

7 minutes ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

 (This is the last thing I wanted) these well teleports better be instant cast, break stun, and NOT categorized as a (shadow step). An Actual portal this time that ignores terrain, rocks and blades of grass. Much like Mesmer portal and our current preparation portal so there's less room for failure.

They're just shadowsteps. Probably with a normal cast animation.

[draxynnic.3719]

Well, at least now we know what Risen Nobles were.

[AikijinX.6258]

1 hour ago, ASP.8093 said:

They're just shadowsteps. Probably with a normal cast animation.

Yeah I just re-read that article where they explained alittle bit more. And yes they actually said in there, The Wells utilize shadow steps. Man what the HECK. This better be instant cast and 1200-1500 range. I know 1500 is very far, but it's for reparations for giving us Wells in the first place that often fail to blades of grass, and pebbles. lol

EDIT: I guess I will buy Chronomancer runes for that 2 seconds quickness on placing a well down, and see the synergies.

EDIT: I wonder if chronomancer runes will  quickness proc twice, because didn't they say the Wells proc at your feet as well as proc at your target location?

EDIT: Nevermind i read the article again, I misunderstood. The chrono runes wont proc twice: "  Each (Well) skill will shadowstep you to your targeted location and then lay the well at your feet "

Edited October 21, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[Graeaw.6329]

I don't know how to feel about the shadowstep-wells feature. Kind of denies us the safe braindead range playstyle.