Specter Feedback Thread

[Clockwork Bard.3105]

Very first thing I noticed seconds into playing is Scepter is absolutely infuriating to play with action cam on.  Action cam has always been a struggle on Thief, with things like Steal failing to fire and still going on cooldown, but it's really not working here.  With an enemy or ally highlighted and the reticle dead-center on them, Skill 1 still only completes maybe one attack cycle and then stops.  Expected behavior is for left-click to only use Skill 1 while held, while tapping the actual #1 begins auto-attacking.

Scepter/Dagger #3 is worse.  With AC on, it just doesn't work on enemies most of the time.  Allies seem to target pretty reliably, so long as you've got them selected and are vaguely pointed in the right direction.  But with enemies targeted, you get: "You must have an enemy or ally targeted to use this skill."

Kinda hoping for an overall AC targeting QoL pass one of these days, but would at least like scepter to perform on par with the other weapons.  Specter gameplay looks like it's going to involve a lot of target switching.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Clockwork Bard.3105

[Rskippy.3620]

I got to play around with the specter a bit, and thoroughly enjoyed majority of it (was kinda hilarious spam shielding random as they were doing content and watching their health be unable to drop with 100% quickness) 

But I do feel the class suffers as a whole from trying to give it a more single target support focus, the way I see it they should maybe only have siphon as it's only targetable ally ability (because it brings some cool unique stuff).

I would also think that a good change would be to have the thief focus more on positional play, give the scepter the ability to pierce with all of its abilities (but keep the ability to cast them at an ally) and have both its positive and negative effects happen respectively depending on what is passed through on the way to the intended target, either cap this at the 3 targets, or go to 5 like most other aoe abilities and adjust the numbers accordingly. 

Even if it was 5 allies AND 5 enemis that were effected at the same time by all this, I don't think that would be too much of a stretch, given the narrow width of these abilities I think if you could line that up it wouldn't be too much of a bad thing to get the pay-off. 

This would make the specter still feel organic, but have a much higher focus on positioning to get the most out of your scepter abilities, keeping a very thief feel while bringing a good amount of utility. 

I just feel the current ally targeting system feels a bit too cumbersome as it stands. 

Further to all this I feel the scepter 2 is more or less useless fluff, given the way thief works with no cooldowns but instead using abilities for different situations I see absolutely no situation where the scepter 2 comes out over either scepter 3, or is even parallel to them depending on situation. 

Perhaps the scepter 2 should be an aoe blast when it hits its target doing the same as above, barriers to allies  hit (maybe a boon or something?) And damage to enemies hit and apply torment, poison or even bleeding to give a spec with little access to bleeding the ability to have some. 

Again being a dual purpose ability would need numbers adjusted or scaling based on targets hit implemented. But it would actually make the scepter 2 an ability worth using depending on the situation, because at the moment short of trying to might stack a single target, it's useless and even that in itself isn't very helpful.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Rskippy.3620
Structuring

[Thane.5127]

Loving the general design of the class, the semi-single target support/healer thing feels really unique and dynamic in the scope of GW2. Definitely my favourite of this batch. Main complaints are UI based: some ability to customize friendly/partied health bars or otherwise improve your ability to lock on to allies on the fly would be a good improvement to the game as a whole and this spec in particular.

[AikijinX.6258]

I can honestly say, I’m pretty surprised the developers let us keep non-decaying shroud while out of combat, and if you quick tap in and out of it while you’re in combat, the decay rate is like 1%. I do appreciate the devs for this. 

[Batel.9206]

Aside from my total inability to figure out this spec (due to me being a dunce and can't seem to understand what I'm doing wrong 😜), I do like it. A lot. There's just...one major bugaboo. The sound for scepter autoattack and #2? Way. Too. Loud. Way too shrill. I have the combat effects turned down to about a quarter of full sound (the rest of the game is at a fairly quiet setting, too), and it still jarred my headphones right off my head. Please tone it down...

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Just have to follow up with another comment that the more I play this spec, the more I like it. There's a lot of little intricacies to it that are so enjoyable and it is nice having a spec with a lot of complexity behind it.

[Zinerith.5203]

I like the spec, but dear god PLEASE change the sceptre skill 1 sound! It's driving me crazy any time I use it, especially when on autocast. I don't know, make it quieter or less harsh, but it's just really loud compared to everything else when used over and over. 

[hatsamu.4327]

What do you all think about the GM minor trait, specifically the stealth attack portion? Trying to get value out of it feels awkward since the rest of the spec offers no stealth, smoke fields, or leap finishers, meanwhile initiative is more limited, F1 is not a shadowstep, and wells will reveal you. I get the synergy with Shadow Arts, but maybe it shouldn't be a mandatory trait?

Maybe a trait affecting dark auras could be interesting? Combo finisher grants dark aura? Dark aura grants barrier? Dark aura gains access to stealth attack?

 

The master minor feels like it should affect self, especially since it's also on the top Gm major trait, which is otherwise ostensibly supposed to be the selfish choice.

 

Shroud animations could have a bit more flavor (Ninja Gaiden ninpo-esque? 😁) but other than that, having a grand time with Consume Shadows assassin-tanking HoT hps!

[godofcows.2451]

I honestly don't like it. Don't get me wrong, it works. I just don't like it. The concept is there and very solid and i can think of a couple of ways where people will carry this into something very annoying in the future. But I still don't like it. I know you guys are trying to come up with something in between thief and necromancer but I feel it's a bit more necromancer than thief as of now. While it's support also works, sooner or later you'll just have to compare it to other support types whose infrastructures require no targeting, needs only a single press of a button and involves more than just one target.

[Jumpel.3972]

51 minutes ago, hatsamu.4327 said:

hat do you all think about the GM minor trait, specifically the stealth attack portion?

I find it's "ok" for scepter stealth attack but otherwise.... meeehhhhh

 

53 minutes ago, hatsamu.4327 said:

Shroud animations could have a bit more flavor (Ninja Gaiden ninpo-esque? 😁)

Got some Ninja Dragon vibe here ! (need a Flying Swallow animation !!)

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Change scepter 2 to a leap finisher to combo if pistol is in off hand, far better synergy than current skill which visually is just a bigger auto attack...lame.

Nerf the heal when leaving shadow for trait SLIGHTLY, no need for a nerf hammer.

Make shadow form skills more impactful, right now feels only useful to wait out ini or to pop in and out for heal.....lame, u guys can do better ie reaper.

The wells don't seem to q at all which with their cast tome can feel off. 

Change heal mechanics to target ally and heal for x, when healing ally u heal up to 4 teammates within 300 range of target ally for 50% of targets heal, This would maintain the initial idea behind target healing while also making it functional withing the current design of the game.

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Tsukuyomi.7509]

Overall:

I think the biggest problem for me is that the specter is too much of a one-trick-pony: It's completely focused on support. Especially when it comes to its traits there should in my opinion be one or ideally two lines that aren't focused on supporting others but on other roles (like condi damage, power damages, or buffing yourself). This would make the spec more viable in solo situations and in open world / story content (which is especially important at the launch of EOD). It would also make the spec more versatile in formats like sPVP and WvW. Right now it feels like you are only really viable as a "cheerleader" for other players which some players and probably plenty of thief mains won't be into. This gets even worse in situations / formats where no other players are around (buffing Marjory in story, random NPCs in open world and guards in WvW roaming is probably great content...). Sure you can say "just play another spec in these situations/formats" but that makes specter still extremly niche in my opinion and thief mains that aren't into support or into formats where specter might be more viable still want something new after all these years. Especially if they actually like the esthetics of specter.

 

Additional minor things:

- Wells feel ab bit clunky to me because of the short range of the shadow step combinded with the long cast time. Players in PvP and mobs in other content are often already somewhere else when the well lands. I often feel like running to the spot where I want to place an well and placing it there (if it was instant activation) would take a similare time and I could make sure that the target is inside the well. And if you want to place a well at your feet because you are attacked this system is worse than "normal" wells. I think a shorter cast time and/or a longer range (e.g. 900) would make up for this.

- The "Hidden thief" trait is clunky with siphon. I takes a long time to stealth you after you siphon and in this time you often do a normal autoattack that reveals you on hit.

- The shroud skills feel underwhelming against enemies. At the moment the trade off for the initiative points doesn't seem woth it.

- Scepter skill 2 seems underwhelming. I don't see why you would want to invest initiative for it.

- The art of the scepter skills 1-3 doesn't really fit the art of the 4 and 5 skills of the offhand weapons (pistol or dagger).

 

Edit: Corrected some spelling mistakes

Edited October 28, 2021 by Tsukuyomi.7509

[Ludovide.1967]

I love this spec so much!!! It is the most fun I have had in gw2 in a while. I ran around with a friend of mine and we did some open world events, such as palawadon, the octovine, and some HoT hero points. I was able to keep him from dying the whole time and it felt really good. Also, during palawadon, I didnt attack a single enemy and still got kill credit due to rot wallow venom, which is great design. Since I was just focused on supporting my ally, I didnt use my 4 and 5 weapon skills since they were enemy only. I really loved being able to revive people at range, it was super fun.

I loved the spec but I had 2 issues. Firstly, despite being able to keep my ally alive really well, it's really hard to keep yourself alive. Maybe some minor self barrier application could help, or it might just be the design of the spec that you are a squishy support, which would be okay. 

My second issue is that, similarly to the virtuoso, the core trait lines dont work with the new mechanic. Specifically, the traits that add bonuses to your steal dont apply if you use it on an ally. At the very least, I would like to see the trait that makes you stealth when you steal and the one that gives out boons work when you target an ally. But what I would really like to see is some trait that is like "on steal effects now apply additional benefits when used on an ally". So poison on steal would now cleanse a condition from your ally, daze would apply stability, stuff like that. So that if you are just focused on helping an ally, you can still use these traits. 

All in all I loved the spec and it was super fun. I dont know if it will be "viable" but it feels good to play.

[Tungsten Monarch.6058]

Not sure where to start here.

The class feels like a Necromancer and not a Thief, I honestly would have been happier with a spec that uses a Two-handed Sword with AoE Shout skills and a steal called grasping darkness that steal’s opponents’ skills while in combat.

 

I don’t like having to select my heal target as it’s not intuitive. I say this as someone who enjoys healing in large dynamic events, and also in WvW. In WvW, an exploit is to have two thief’s tether the Commander this should be reduced to one tether per target.

 

I believe the scepter 1 skill should operate like a Staff Elementalist Water Blast skill up to 5 allies within 240 range and not a single target. Get rid of tethered targets.

 

I believe the Thief who already lacks many of the advantages a Necromancer has for shroud skills, should retain his skills while in Shadow Shroud.

 

Nice idea but this should have been a Necromancer Spec all along.

 

The Thief like the Elementalist Healer, suffers from the same issue, the lack of sustainable health, thus an armor selection issue for effective maximal healing potential. Thus, limiting the armor options to Celestial or Minstrel to be truly effective. But I believe Minstrel is not the way to go for this spec to be effective, leaving only Celestial as a viable option.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Tungsten Monarch.6058

[Jumpel.3972]

For some quality of life to targeting ally, they should allow a keybind to only target ally player (to avoid targeting pet/clone)

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Played a full glass D/P Crits/SA Specter. The stealth is really needed with the lower initiative. Shroud has no means of tanking an entire zerg, but more initiative giving you 1 more infiltrator's arrow saves you. 

 

The only good thing is that Shroud may tank a bit of dmg (still gets instantly eaten away by one Soulbeast pew pew, that is with a mix of Crusader/Cavalier/Valkyrie gear to make use of Shadow arts and constant popping of backstab to proc 100% crit from crit Strikes). 

 

Siphon needs to give you shadow force for targeting both allies and enemies. Why not be able to build shroud before entering player combat? Necro has tons of traits affecting its shroud so it's ok that it needs to kill something. But thief has no means of improving the shroud (I've posted 3 suggestions for its skill to make it more usable). 

 

On top of that, I agree whatever support capabilites we can give out, we should get. It's stupid to use consume shadows (best trait for a power build), pop shroud see that you get a lot of dmg, leave shroud and gain no health at all (if already wounded). Make it the save mechanism it can be with no 300 Sec ICD. 

 

Siphon should grant us barrier regardless of ally/enemy target. 

 

Fix the stealth on siphon delay. Very weird that I need to time siphon 2 seconds earlier to get stealth. 

 

I have more faith in fixing Specter than I do Bladesworn. Make this spec the reason I'm getting EoD! 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Slykenobi.1346]

I'm absolutely loving this new elite spec, and there's a lot of good points on here. The one thing that I would like to point out is actually about UI that I feel needs a change with the shift in the way this spec supports: Please make party/squad frames movable!

 

Supporting on other professions is manageable without using the UI as most of the abilities are AOE or skillshot, but with specter, most of the time you're supporting a single targeted person ( by design, and I love it!). However, it is incredibly difficult to swap targets efficiently in the heat of battle to the one person that needs that shield/heal/boon and I find myself tab-targeting to the wrong ally a lot. When I try to click on the player model, sometimes there's too many things stacked on them and I end up targeting the wrong ally or even enemy.

 

Being able to move the party/squad UI would allow me to put it closer to the center of the screen, or near my ability bar, making it infinitely easier to play the "health bar mini game" that healers in other MMOs are so familiar with (which I am currently trying to do in a less than square inch area in the far top left of my screen, because that's where it lives). Because of the designed spot healing/shielding built into specter, I really feel like this would smooth a lot of the targeting clunkiness.

[AikijinX.6258]

We have that one grandmaster trait for SC that gives us damage reduction depending on the amount of condi’s are on the enemy. 
- But what if instead of the damage reduction, that trait can be used as a “Your shroud gets (X) amount stronger. I’m not sure what a good percentage would be, but stronger Shroud would definitely be a nice touch up for this very burst prone shroud form we have.

[Noctosis.3786]

Maybe unrelated, but I realized with Specter that Sword on thief doesn't really have a place anymore. Daredevil w/Staff is the power build with AoE and evades for days. Deadeye is the single target DPS. And Specter has movement within wells and controls enemies through Slow and such. 

According to the wiki, Sword is to provide - Flanking sword attacks provide extra evasiveness and control enemy movement. Flanking is fine except there isn't an inherit bonus to flanking on it's own, and moving to a flanking position with other weapons provides the same benefit. evasiveness, considered making an attack miss through attacks, we have flanking strike which is a lower dps move, that then gets stuck to the dps portion after(which is catch up on damage) while not being able to evade again. Pistol whip is a root. Dagger has the same evasiveness with death blossom, Staff has blinds and rolling backwards, Rifle has shadowstepping backward, and scepter has pistol offhand that shadowsteps forward/backward.

 

Control enemy movement falls into Specter territory now, with slows and such making Sword officially have no identify outside of one move. Infiltrator's strike, which cleanses 1 condition.

 

I'm not sure what else the community can say about Sword that I might miss, but I do feel with Specter's control of enemies and shadowsteps on wells, Sword doesn't bring anything to the table for thief anymore that you couldn't get elsewhere

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

It would be pretty awesome if specter had stolen skills on an f3 button. 

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

Did not enjoy.  Mostly because it kept telling me that I didn't have anyone targeted when I did.  It got old quick.  Over all I'm not seeing a point to the class when others can support groups way better, and benefitting a group is where its at here, not just specific players.  I just don't see the benefit long term for this spec.  I'll stick to my deadeye and DD builds.

[AikijinX.6258]

4 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I have more faith in fixing Specter than I do Bladesworn. Make this spec the reason I'm getting EoD! 

To be honest I have a lot of faith in them fixing Specter a lot more than like  bladesworn or catalyst and virtuoso. Since we are the Guinea pigs for the new ally mechanic, they will be focusing a lot on Specter, and our comments and what we say.

Edited October 28, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

The visual effects of wells should be toned down in my opinion. They are too intense in their current state

[Will.9785]

Good lord is switching targets constantly a pain in the kitten.  Who on earth thought this would be anything approaching fun?

[Yumesaki.7082]

Specter Feedback

Scepter
- Shadowsquall auto attacking with scepter before you stealth, causes you to reveal yourself before you can cast your sneak attack on scepter.

- Measured Shot should be the Dual attack on (Scepter/Dagger) with a higher initiative cost 4-5
it should always shadowstep you towards the target.
(it's confusing when a skill shadowsteps you in a direction you are not expecting.)
(you could shadowstep in with this skill, stealth with dagger 5 and use the stealth attack of scepter)

- Endless Night should be the Stealth attack on Scepter

- Twilight Combo should be the dual attack on (Scepter/Pistol) The 2nd projectile should be the big damage/big barrier.

Shadow Shroud
- Haunt Shot should be auto cast (it's annoying to spam press it.)

- Eternal Night could apply offensive boons because it is an offensive skill and does a lot of damage. (alacrity, fury, regen)

- Shadow Force you cannot gain shadow force out of combat (gonna need to gain full shadow force when you start a raid or strike encounter)

- There should probably be a stealth attack in shadow shroud.

Siphon
- Traits that affect your steal don't affect siphon when targeting an ally

- Would be nice to gain some shadow force when using siphon on an ally even just 10-15

Improvements to Wells
- instead of shadowstepping immediately to your wells location
- the skill icon should flip over
- allowing you to shadowstep to your wells location while the well is active
- the skill goes on cooldown when you shadowstep or when the well is no longer active.
- (kind of like the reverse of the shadow portal)

Elite
- Shadowfall needs to have different visual effects for enemies and allies and needs to be more transparent or have less visual noise in general but especially for allies.

New Grandmaster Trait for 5-10 man group content
- Causes the effects of your "Ally Target" skills (single target ally skills) to apply to 5 allies in a radius of 240-360 of your "Shrouded Ally". (last ally you siphoned)
- The Healing, Barrier and Boon effects of your "Ally Target" skills (single target ally skills) are reduced by 25-75%