Specter Feedback Thread

[kharmin.7683]

2 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Shroud felt like it built too slowly and decayed too quickly.

It’d be nice if tether could have some use if I’m not in 1200 range of another player. Could it be traited to target an enemy and slowly stack conditions, or corrupt or steal boons? Or give a damage increase? Or life steal? Give targets a way to break the tether for counterplay?

That, to me, would seem to tread on the necromancer theme though?

[Gibson.4036]

18 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

That, to me, would seem to tread on the necromancer theme though?

Doesn’t it already?

Its seems like they’ve already gone there. It’d be nice if it was functional outside of the specific situation of following around another player.

Any idea on how that might be done without treading on Necro’s niche?

[HotDelirium.7984]

LOVE the effects from the scepter and the wells, the tiny shadow people walking inside is perfect.

However the concept on a single target heal/support and trying to constantly retarget while making sure the projectiles aren't destroyed might be problematic. Maybe the DEV team should try out a few modes to see what plays more intuitively? 

-The Wells can be for group (insert intention: dps, heals, boons) as well as the shadow tether.

-We could always mark our target and then when we use skills on the enemy they receive their boons on a delay or on the way to the enemy the first ally the projectile passes through receives that support. Going from the main enemy or any enemy back to the main ally might be hectic especially with us shadow stepping everywhere.  The shroud skills are a bit slow, and that naruto dive skill is so off-putting.

[kharmin.7683]

8 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Doesn’t it already?

Its seems like they’ve already gone there. It’d be nice if it was functional outside of the specific situation of following around another player.

Any idea on how that might be done without treading on Necro’s niche?

I've not really given it much thought tbh.  I don't often play my thief character so much; however, IMO thematically the thief ought to be about stealth and spike damage (EDIT and conditions, too, more specifically poison and bleeding but that's my take).  Which was already covered by previous builds.  Expanding into another profession's area doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I suppose there isn't much room to move outside of what's already been established while keeping to a fairly core thematic concept. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by kharmin.7683
more info

[aetemes.2603]

This spec is the the most surprising to me because I felt like it actually tried to implement some controversial concepts instead of copy pasting in the most restrained of manners...although this still is copy paste but an interesting manner imo.

My peeves though.

The spam stickman effect with wells and shadowform is ugly ,stiff and not cool looking. Also the sudden I have all the saturated color fiasco is..kinda..like can you at least tone down the purples. The shadow form animations can the dash look cooler and not a prolonged dd dash...just the forms skills animation can look a little less boring and cooler imo (blue oversized claw swipe?).

100 posts mentioned the sceptres sounds are extremley unpleasant.

I am not sure how I feel about the you have to target allies when the game doesn't innately make that easy but...I do feel the effects are strong enough to justify it so that's good. Also that it is a new way to play is good in my book. 

Building up shadowform feels..like is it practical in pvp not a hundred percent sure but this can easily be toned up and down.

I am a little annoyed thief gets to give alac..like that talent could easily make chronomancer's useless your wells now just heal more relevant and it makes 10000% more sense chrono would have it but..got it you hate mesmers existence. Still really aggravating they even grant quickness with pistol 3 like?...ok??. Scepter/Pistol 3 being a weird copy paste of d/p p/d..is a little tacky but the effects are cool. Sceptre feels strong and cool on it's own something that I feel a lot of the other especs severely lacked the weapons felt like a "well I guess when you make a new espec you have to get a new weapon".

But spectre overall imo is the most bold of all of the especs...it feels -a little- risky...it feels capable of being scary...it def tries to take the class in a totally different direction instead of copy/paste/delete was it worth it though? most of the other especs had. But it is really scourge extremley toned down in value in a way but in theory a lot more slippery and strong in the small scale scenarios a spooky ghost that you have to take down is cool I guess.

I am not thief enough I am even wondering if it'll be so strong people will only want you to spectre as thief in pvp? Not sure.

Edited October 27, 2021 by aetemes.2603

[Gibson.4036]

One more thought, could we get the option to automatically tether the nearest party member.?

Edited October 27, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Duka.5864]

I am Sorry! I hate this spec! 

Actually I love it now ! 😄

Edited October 30, 2021 by Duka.5864

[Aedil.1296]

I am freaking loving this spec 😍

It gives a big incentive to play with others!! 

Been doing the beta with a friend of mine and we are having so much fun!!! 

A part from some bug that it's worth reporting on the bug tread I am very pleased with this spec. 

It will take a bit to master it but deffo worth it. 

Thank you! 

P. S. Now please let's do something revolutionary and super fun for Catalyst too please? Like a total rework? ❤️

[Aedil.1296]

25 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

One more thought, could we get the option to automatically tether the nearest party member.?

I would rather get an automatic switch to the party member with lowest health, that would be a great QoL and solve the targeting issue 😊

[Gibson.4036]

14 minutes ago, Aedil.1296 said:

I would rather get an automatic switch to the party member with lowest health, that would be a great QoL and solve the targeting issue 😊

Good idea. Party member with lowest health who is in range.

[AikijinX.6258]

17 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

I'm not home yet, does it move like old DE Cursed Bullet? CB was very telegraphed but I'd time it to send it on a curve maybe (to be unassuming to target) to land right around when I'd have some other stuff landing. Maybe when we've felt it out for awhile it might sync up with some obvious sequence most people will be using. 

It’s quite a unique skill. It doesn’t have nearly.. if not any.. tracking on it like old cursed bullet had. The first air slice projectile, whatever you wanna call it moves so slow that when you do use it (and your distance is around 600-800 units) and you are relatively a comfortable distance away any side step from the enemy will have this thing miss. I can’t tell if being closer is better either because when I’m close it seems to mess up the 2nd accelerated projectile, so you really only get 1 out. It’s super weird. You can never reliably hit both projectiles on the target unless they’re like immob’d or have no dodges and blocks.
 

But when this thing DOES HIT (on a power build) I’m hitting upwards to 8k (without use of assassin signet) on a beta character with out my regular gear and infusion, sigils, and trinkets.

Edited October 27, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Made a decent PvE solo Cele build. 

 

More dmg oriented builds die easily, more tanky builds do literally no dmg. I have not delved into the idea of power specter yet. The toolkit provided doesn't seem to really promote power solo play (may try a shadowstep style duelist, +1er tho). 

 

5 hydras under Kormir's temple vs me was a tough fight which took around 5 minutes. Spec lacks AoE cleave that doesn't throw you into the enemy's AoE. Reconsider a couple of wells being shadowsteps (you have this weird idea of giving meaningless shadowsteps to everyone anyway). Elite and Daze wells should be ranged. 

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

14 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Made a decent PvE solo Cele build. 

 

More dmg oriented builds die easily, more tanky builds do literally no dmg. I have not delved into the idea of power specter yet. The toolkit provided doesn't seem to really promote power solo play (may try a shadowstep style duelist, +1er tho). 

 

5 hydras under Kormir's temple vs me was a tough fight which took around 5 minutes. Spec lacks AoE cleave that doesn't throw you into the enemy's AoE. Reconsider a couple of wells being shadowsteps (you have this weird idea of giving meaningless shadowsteps to everyone anyway). Elite and Daze wells should be ranged. 

techniclly a power Specter is doable, the dmg comes from mostly Critical Strikes and Deadly Arts or Trickery

Panakus will give you decent Barrier even without +healing power. Shroud is another layer of defense. Well of tears and silence are decent with power scaling. Traversing Darkness is always good no matter what your focus is. Shadestep is the only grandmaster trait you could choose as soloplayer.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Felices Bladewing.3914

[Jumpel.3972]

4 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I have not delved into the idea of power specter yet. The toolkit provided doesn't seem to really promote power solo play

 

Sc/D 3 do some good power damage

[AikijinX.6258]

32 minutes ago, Felices Bladewing.3914 said:

techniclly a power Specter is doable, the dmg comes from mostly Critical Strikes and Deadly Arts or Trickery

Panakus will give you decent Barrier even without +healing power. Shroud is another layer of defense. Well of tears and silence are decent with power scaling. Traversing Darkness is always good no matter what your focus is. Shadestep is the only grandmaster trait you could choose as soloplayer.

You don’t need trickery in the slightest. Only CS, SA, SC
 

D.A won’t give you free might on crit or extra ferocity. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

2 minutes ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

You don’t need trickery in the slightest. Only CS, SA, SC
 

D.A won’t give you free might on crit or extra ferocity. 

you could go for dagger training and flickering shadow if you choose D/D
and do not underestimate lead attacks that trait is bonkers

[lunaeclipse.6843]

Please change Well of Bounty boon application order:

Stability

Resistance

Aegis

Protection

Vigour
Having it prioritize stability could give it real potential in WvW squads. It can't cleanse really as it is so having even that single stack of stability could give it a real chance at competing with current meta support builds.

[Klypto.1703]

One of the wells needs to be a stun break and then also more blindness application for cloaked in shadow.  So what will happen like Ventari its great on paper but in actual combat it is easily countered without proper mechanics to work with.  Oh also if you read the grandmaster skill of this spec it does cleanse allies if you use that trait.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Klypto.1703

[kash.9213]

A lot covered already, so mostly I have a few thoughts that stood out while playing. 

I can appreciate that I can move and position mostly like I would with other thief builds, even when targeted and oriented around a teammate, at first thinking of Siphon as it's own thing but it's still like playing around Steal and Stolen items, just timing Shroud phase like I'd time a Necro Fear just right or something. I feel like I was still working an area like normal to line myself up or get to people, although Wells have to placed just before where you want to face if you're using something directional next that might just miss if not lined up right. 

I can mostly target what I need to with Action Cam but in large crowds we have to fit in more hotkeys within our ease of use zone on keyboard to have a targeting system.

I can see myself taking a lot of Wells with Shadowstep. There's Interrupt options to take slots from Scorpion Wire and Pitfall.

I feel like most fights are done by the time I can flex with Shroud. I need to find some zerg action. I probably just need to find the right flow skills and actions that promote Shroud play but then I'm taking slots from other stuff.

Specter Skills and Utilities feel like when I'm trying to fight in a bad dream, like every action is just a nudge too slow, telegraphed, or in a rigid cone or line of attack for everyone else and I can see myself getting Controlled easily unless I scrap some Specter elements for more Core, build and kit. Shadowstep still needs a slot. I need a Break Stun and it's snappy which most of Specter is not. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by kash.9213

[Nighthawk.2401]

Did Anet's developement team forget stunbreaks are a thing?

I really feel like at least one (if not more) of these new thief skills needs to be a stun break so that a well-focused build can be more viable/enjoyable. Same for ranger. I'm amazed that both of these oft-hated and out-of-the-meta for group content classes have received zero stun breaks in these specs. 

I don't like being pushed into having to take 1 or 2 core utilities just to fullfill stunbreak slots, at least one stun break in the elite skills opens up the option to accept only having a single stun break as a trade off for running full wells/cantrips, or only needing to take one core skill to still have two stunbreaks. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Nighthawk.2401

[ens.9854]

9 hours ago, Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

And the weirder reality is that in team fights, they are actually safe with just ignoring you.

From the design perspective this sums up everything for me. In theory you are supposed to be the 'ultimate peel' able to heal and attack in shroud, but in reality the damage is weak and the CC components are too hard to land. On top of that, you don't actually provide any of the 'OP' support features like stab or mobile projectile blocking or DR.

[Trianox.3486]

9 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

Just a small note to that, with this patch they changed the ingame text of Leeching Venoms to clarify it only affects Venom Utility Skills. 

As of right now, it works tho. That change is REALLY unfortunate whenever it will actually be implemented, because it would really have opened up build diversity, a whole different to way support your party, with new venom builds too!

 

Well of Tears ...I don't get it. Specter has no power traits, so either we'd need to add in power traits, so as to allow a power variant of the Specter (similarly scourge is best players condi, but is actually fun in power variant too!).

The well could pulse barrier to synergize with Rot Wallow Venom, or it could cleanse conditions, or allow for a bit of stability maybe?

Right now, it feels useless even when specced for power damage, could the coefficient be too low?

 

I can see a power Specter using Critical Strike and Accrobatics, or CS with SA, or else... with fewer wells, and more types utilities in their toolbar, but damage wise it would really be lacking, even for a support spec. It needs a power boost somewhere to open up support and off-power-DPS options as well.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Trianox.3486

[FluffyFox.2756]

Let me start by saying I'm not the best player out there and I tend to lack innovation, so I look towards more competent players to get an idea of how a class -should- be played. That being said, I don't feel like this class "works" as implemented. What I mean by that is that targeting allies is a massive chore and difficult to do, and there are no real good ways to do it. There is a tab target ally keybind but it does not work very well, which leaves the only real option of left-clicking an ally... it feels cumbersome and hard to do in a fast-paced combat. Additionally, this does not work -at all- in action cam with enemies present, as right-clicking to target in action cam always prioritizes enemies, so you click through allies and target enemies instead. For reference I play exclusively in action cam as I find it the most engaging and comfortable to use.

I feel like needing to target allies with skills at all adds a layer of difficulty that is not present in other support specs - almost all support skills are fire and forget AoEs, where you just press a button and allies get boons or heals. Occasionally you'll get something like a cone or directional attack that requires more precise positioning in order to give support to allies, and I feel that is more of a direction that Specter can lean into so it still requires more finesse than other support specs without feeling clunky or having to completely redesign how targeting works on allies. Maybe not a cone, but maybe piercing projectiles that can, at most, hit one ally and one enemy (and doesn't necessarily need a target) so your main focus is on positioning rather than constantly clicking between allies to try and maximize your support potential.

Shroud also needs a better targeting system outside of click ally > cast, and currently it's implemented to target a -random- nearby ally if one is not selected. Why not at the very least follow boon target priorities (party > squad > summons > proximity) or even better yet, (party (lowest hp%) > squad (lowest hp%) so on and so forth). It was brought up to me by another player that such precise non-targeted casting could make the class 'play itself' so to speak, but as mentioned earlier in this post, other supports already have a plethora of skills that require no greater thought than push button > give support. Even if the support is really good on Specter (which it absolutely is) it's still a pretty massive handicap to not be able to support a whole team at once and puts a huge burden on the Specter to juggle targets.

Overall I love the idea, the theming, and the uniqueness of what Specter can offer, but I believe it can be delivered in a way that also makes it a joy to play and not overly cumbersome.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Hidden thief should trigger on ally siphon.

[Zuras.5394]

This elite spec surprised me. At first it seemed to me like a joke that a thief was the new "pocket doctor". But after giving it a few tries and changing things from the default set up to something more manageable I find it has some potential. First though, the name does not suit the new spec. By definition its not much of a ghost or phantom or apparition of a terrifying nature. A specter simply does not "heal".  I would say this new elite spec is more so a "Shadow Priest"...But of course that name is taken by another game...but it would be more fitting.

 

As for game play, it's a strange learning curve which your not sure what is going on at times. The teleport skills are weird. I guess the idea is to teleport to allies or enemies at a very limited range. and the reload times of those skills are a bit too long to really be effective. The attacks are weird as well and sometimes have a mind of their own. I couldn't use the default setup...it was bad.  I went with all celestial and kept the weapons at default which imo suited the build better since it does quite a variety of things.  

 

Being able to  help support other players was a rewarding once you remembered what skill does what...not a simple task.  I think this build tries too hard to be two rolls to which it doesn't really exceed in either.